Bitcoin Forum

Tonight's programme featured a section on the dark net, clearly using a press statement from the police as source material...

They highlighted Bitcoin as an 'anonymous' 'untraceable' currency used by traffickers of illegal goods. (A bit late to the misinformation party right?)

You can view it here:
http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-up/

or read the article version here:
http://www.channel4.com/news/dark-web-the-internet-behind-our-own

I've made a politely worded corrective complaint and request for a correction on tomorrow's show. Maybe a few more would make it a little more likely!

edit: the email for complaints is:
news@channel4.com

Actually that's pretty accurate. No where in britain accepts bitcoins at all. The only thing you can use it for is buying drugs.

You're talking to a UK retailer of tobacco (for BTC) ;)

Tobacco is a drug, albeit a legal one.  ;D

That's exactly what onesalt was saying

I'd put a 5btc wager on the fact that you are doing it illegally.

lol I saw that and wondered if anyone would comment about it on here.

I love how they suggested that TOR was some evil, hard to acquire tool so you could access Silk Road or whatever. But heck I guess the article will get some more people interested in Bitcoins regardless of what their intentions are. Atleast they acknowledged (sort of) the fact that regular currency can be used to purchase drugs, child porn and other illegal stuff; many other reports seem to totally dismiss this fact.

I also wish they would have showed the good things that you can use Bitcoins for as well... although I suppose an unbiased article is a little too much to ask of the main stream media  ::) But yeah... I think they are about 4 months too late on the whole Deepweb/Bitcoin thing..... I guess it must have been a slow news day.

Plus that 'woman' in charge of combatting e-crime (something along those lines) made me chuckle... she couldn't have looked more like a man...

Lol I was going to say that :P
Pardon my ignorance BitBacco but don't you need a license to legally sell tobacco?

Not in England, see the tobacco retailers alliance law page:
http://www.tobaccoretailersalliance.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=23&Itemid=19

Does that mean you'll give me 5BTC if I can prove I'm not, and what would that entail? I'm trading as a Sole Trader in the UK. I count my expenses and when I sell BTC for fiat I will account for that as taxable income.

Where the hell do we send the complaint? That would kind of help because I've been looking for 10 minutes and cant find so much as an email address....

ah sorry I meant to include that! The email address is news@channel4.com

I don't know what the UK tax law is, but I assume 'Sole Trader' is the same as 'Sole Proprietor' in the US. That squares you with the IRS or equivalent, but does not say anything for the actual tobacco sales. I am saying that I bet you don't have a permit to distribute tobacco. To prove that you have the permit, we'd need to see the permit...

I don't think there was anything misrepresentative about that story.

In some countries law is less crazy than in others. Imagine that!

He does not have to prove anything.

Of course he doesn't have to prove anything. He can take my bet or leave it. I really doubt tobacco sales is unregulated in the UK.

No one cares about tobacco sales in the UK. I've seen uniformed cops buying smuggled cigarettes at streetcorner vendors in London.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-14737030 --someone cares.

I have smoked dope with dozens of cops. They are people too. That doesn't mean it's not illegal.

Point taken.  ;)


Don't ask me. I saw that as a tourist about a decade ago. I don't know if things have changed under Sharia Law.

Clearly you didn't follow the link I posted above, and I quote
"In England, Wales and Northern Ireland, retailers DO NOT need a licence to sell tobacco"
From the UK tobacco retailers alliance.

As long as UK Duty is paid on the cigarettes (which it is before I buy them) and I declare my income as a sole trader I'm totally legal.

Can I get that 5BTC now?  ;D

I totally didn't see that link. What about Scotland and Ireland?

I am blown away that there is no permitting in England. How in the fuck can they enforce anything with negative permitting?

Considering now much excise taxes they take on those fags (meaning cigarettes) I am not surprised that they allow everyone and their mother to sell it.

Scotland - currently it's still legal, but from October 1st you'd need to 'register' to sell tobacco from there - I'm not sure that's quite the same as a license though

Ireland I'm not sure, they have their own set of laws there!

I'm not sure what a license would help enforce? As Vladimir said tax on tobacco here is really high - higher than anywhere else in Europe - and shops would still be prosecuted if it was found they were selling cheap 'duty-free' cigarettes or doing anything else they shouldn't be.

So part of the UK is regulated. I was half wrong, so I'll stand up to half my bet on that...send me a payment address.

Since Bitcoins don't have a minimum age limit can you prove your customers aren't underage? Beucase if not you're most likely gonna get fined so much for it.

By who? From where?

I was arguing the technical side. It's not like anyone could actually enforce it.

Awesome, so there is some honour on the bitcoin forums  ;) Thanks!

Here we go:
15HGEMy1Na2pQgkDe4KMJb4L5jJuFZo9v3

Yeah, they have the same problem with cards - you have to have the warning that you're not allowed to buy it underage but other than that there's not a lot you can do.

Back to the OP:

Any press is good press.  I first became aware of Bitcoin because of the Silk Road article on Gizmodo.

Well no it's more of an issue since Banks will keep details on you such as your age and suchlike, and to get a credit or debit card most banks have a minimum age which in a lot of cases is 18.

On the other hand, any 12 year old could pick up a bitcoin client if he wanted to.

You should have a shiny new 2.5btc. I am not fooling around...when I call people out on bets, I am serious about it.

Why do you doubt that? Tobacco sales are unregulated here in Sweden too. The very idea that it would be regulated baffles me, I've never heard of such a thing.

Because if there are laws regarding the sale, distribution, and taxation of a product, there is normally an infrastructure to enforce it.

http://blockexplorer.com/address/15HGEMy1Na2pQgkDe4KMJb4L5jJuFZo9v3

Well.. half serious... which is better than mybitcoin's 49%. 
Given that this bet was pretty informal and it wasn't immediately obvious when both parties accepted the bet.. I guess we can forgive you that.

That observers like me can verify this little wager exchange so easily via the blockchain is a really nice aspect of bitcoin. Thanks for the demo you two :)