Bitcoin Forum

Guys why should only users have to provide identity why not the OWNERS who up and run them??? (are they gods?)

This is especially for the casinos which demands for user KYC documents.


Its time to make things even. kiddo edwardoo are you lurking??

Because these casinos already have to complete due diligence, including AML and KYC requirements for the licensing, gaming, financial and banking jurisdictions that they work under. If the casino doesn't ask it from you, they likely don't owe any of the above to their jurisdictions.

But fair point: a lot of casinos online actually aren't under strict regulations and only use KYC as an additional means to clamp down on fraud/cheating. This to me is a little unfair, especially when enforced post-registration, usually at the time users request withdrawal. Use this positively though. Casinos that do that should be named, and people can move on to other less unreasonable places to bet.

I really understand your point on here which you are really correct where as a gambler it cant really be avoided to have questions on mind about the name or identity of such gambling site for us to be fully confident on using em up and entrusting with our btc deposits and sits up with our gambling site account.Just like had been said by buwaytress above not all gambling sites do have that licensing or do being regulated which it does really give the sense of being unfair on our side.

well that's for sure a good point , I'm ok with KYC when the owners are known and when you can make sure that your info won't be leaked or used for other purposes
most of the times I'm ok with sending my papers to the well known sites , like americascardroom and 5dimes but there are some bitcoin sites that ask for that without us even knowing the name of the owners which is not acceptable at all

I don't really want to comment on your incident with PrimeDice but generally I hate Gambling sites asking for KYC documents when they're operating on fake licences.Should they really wish to impose KYC polices on their players, they should do so while players creates an account or makes his first deposit.

Bringing KYC as a formality to delay or investigate wins/withdrawals is a pathetic attempt to disappoint customers.Be a responsible gambler and check if the terms and conditions beforehand.

because we are customers. i dont feel bad personally

Lol don't ask that most of them who ask for kyc mainly are fortunejack , sportsbet , betcoin. The funny part is all of these sites have a fake license so if they ask for kyc it's completely useless , it is just a excuse to not send your profit.
We have often seen fj delaying payments for months so it's clear they don't have any funds to pay to the users or they are just greedy

This guy hit the nail on the coffin!
As customers, there are rules/regulations that we must abide by if we want to participate in a service (gambling).

If you don't want to KYC, then don't play at a KYC casino!
Personally, I think KYC isn't such a bad idea since it helps eliminate bad apples.

yes but if you give your information to a casino, you must trust that they hold this information securely.

Who is to say that the owner shares your private documents with others?

Ah, I'm beginning to understand a bit of the background and context now but yeah, this really unfair practice should be stamped out.

It's very similar to many previously unregulated exchanges who did the same thing. Using every excuse in the book to withold a withdrawal. Like I said, there are some valid justifications but asking for verification documents is seldom ever necessary had correct security implementations been in place earlier - not to mention that they'd happily take your funds without first doing that verification. Shady at best, unethical and wrong at worst.

Dread to think about what all that data could be exposed to just lying around in someone's computer.

Indeed. They don't ask for documents when a player lose big :D

As long as you know the operator, you do not need to know the owner.

heya will paya 0.1 btc put addy and talk on our side 8) 8)

Please translate to readable English?

do you really protect users from frauds or you just begg for money.

heya will paya 0.1 btc put addy and talk on our side = do you really protect users from frauds or you just begg for money?

It is stated on our website what Game Protect (https://game-protect.com) does, especially here https://game-protect.com/faq/

Right now most casinos don't KYC.

There are a few that do in a scammy way. Basically they only ask for KYC when you win big and try to withdraw. They are already in the scam accusations thread.

However with Bitcoin and Cryptos and Blockchain going more and more mainstream and falling under regulation, Bitcoin casinos if they want to stay in business will need to comply.

Basically what is happening now with Bittrex, Poloniex and now Bitfinex. They were all unverified accounts and now you need to be verified on all of them.

Issues can really happen into each casinos but it seems you are generalizing and making such presumptions without any valid basis. Im not with Fortunejack but it seems you are sure when it comes on delaying payments where you do believe they dont have funds to pay? Seriously? Not only fortunejack do only have such delay. Why wont you consider on putting up other examples as well. KYC is common nowadays when we are already talking about big winnings and knowing the owner of the gambling sites we do play is unlikely in most case.

They will be, if players start to abandon casinos that impose such horrible polices.

My point! Either impose polices as soon as the account is created or don't impose them at all.

Exposing such confidential data does need you to be a authorised service provider which most of the gambling sites aren't. Hence, they shouldn't be trusted with KYC documents either.

In case of the publicly proven Bitcasino scam (https://game-protect.com/bitcasino-scam/) and Sportsbet scam (https://game-protect.com/sportsbet-scam/) it is definitely a scam tactic, because they reserve the right to request KYC only after winnings, whereas there is no problem if you lose Bitcoins worth millions!

I at least have never heard that they asked for KYC after someone lost and gave his loss back because KYC failed! :D

Excellent! This is an excellent proposition. Why the end user would be worried always and why not the fake owners. Along with gambling, this is also needed in the ICO market as well. This process will actually bring back a lot of lost credibility back into the market. However, it is very hard to implement and we need a centralized agency who will carry on the validation for the common mass. But everything starts with an idea. Who knows, KYO may become a common practice in future.

Lol that will never happen if you win then you have violated all there terms regardless if you are completely a fair gambler. You submit kyc like a idiot and finally they close your account and which of additional terms you have to forfeit your winnings and your initial funds

It's funny when you said "gods". I don't know why you would think that. People who are really rich are not gods. They are probably really good at business or not.
I doubt that knowing the owner would benefit you unless you are planning a partnership with them or not. It's only that.

This is not the first incidence I have seen by a member of PD who faced KYC issue, I remember there were 1 -3  similar posts here which had vented their frustration against this. I rightfully agree with all that KYC is not a good practice for casinos and it should be used only in the strictest circumstances possible. What's the use of playing online when you need to give your identity out, but like they say don't like a casino rules don't play sad but true.

Now that you mention it, these guys are going to get in trouble with GDPR coming into effect tomorrow. Only data controllers and processors, as identified by the GDPR, will be allowed to request personal data - and they must be able to justify for it on several causes, plus be able to demonstrate compliance for data protection. My guess? None of these guys can do that.

I hope the next time they ask for someone's ID and that person is in the EU, the person contacts the Supervisory Authorities to go after them.

Except for those online casinos that a fiat regulated, I am not sure there is anyone in the crypto sector that makes KYC a parameter right ? Just asking !

Nevertheless, it is just one thing we have to accept since it is not the casinos themselves that set the rules like you have said, but it is something imposed by the law in their situation which they just have to abide by if they do not want their licenses revoked. I guess we just have to live with it, or demand for a KYO ourselves, if the government does not make it compulsory.

They are right casinos need to be passed for licensing so part of their requirements is having KYO for there clients information.
This is also to avoid fraudulently casino gambling site if ever and for possible scam intentions, so KYO is already implemented by the owner when they are taking a licensed for their casino.
KYC is very important especially for withdrawal of funds or other illegal activity which is against for the owner, and it is for safety purposes.

You absolutely have a point here, but the whole point of having KYC demand in these casinos is to prove ownership of the account that you are using for the gambling, because how would they verify if it is you in case your accounts gets hacked, and i think that them having their identities out there for everyone to see can comprise their lives, if they like lives in places where having an online casino is illegal they could get in trouble.

Agree why not KYO why we are giving our details owners are not

There are plenty of crypto casinos that have asked for KYC, we're reminded every so often by threads of users complaining in here (granted, I suspect most of them were attempting fraud) of KYC procedures activated by these crypto casinos especially during times of withdrawals. Again, I can understand the logic behind it, but these security measures (as often purported) should have been implemented from registration, not after. It's unethical to allow people to deposit and then restrict their withdrawals, even if the latter was justified. It's simply not right, nor lawful, to steal, not even from a thief.

Many casinos that require KYC are actually licensed establishments, which means you can check the company records to determine who the CEO is. However, there are a lot of casinos that are run by completely anonymous owners, this could be because they are using it for money laundering purposes, or have some other shady activity going on. I would say that it's best to stay safe and play only at fully licensed casinos, that way you at least know there is some repute behind it.

we all know that the user is not necessarily the owner and owner is not necessarily the user in this case the casino asks kyc on the user yes it is true when the user directly related to the casino and the owner was not so natural when the casino asked kyc its users.

Really, just avoid casino's that ask for KYC, there's literally tons of other casino's out there that don't require you to offer them your identity.
I also think it's ludicrous that you have to offer them your identity documents, over a potentially insecure connection.

Even when we're dealing with small amounts, lower than $1000. Such a waste of time IMO

I think KYC is just natural for a business. Knowing who they are spending the money with is just normal for businesses. Business owners will never let other people know who they are for their own protection. And it doesn't make any sense to let others know about you just because you asked for KYC. I don't see the point of knowing the owner's info. KYC's are needed to avoid them from trouble of money laundering.

I think the casino is already proving their identity to the government if they want to build a gambling casino and the owner of the casino need to make a report for who is their member so if something goes not right, they can make prevention and report it to the government. but I don't know since I am not a gambling site owner and maybe there is an agreement between the owner and the government.

I think it's the ideal situation in crypto.  When you hold all your coins in your wallet, you have full control of your wealth and are free to choose if you wanna go into a KYC environment and be under those rules or not.

The good thing is you can always withdraw and be in control again.  It's the same as using exchanges really.

I have personally  not seen it much in the gambling industry, but when I partake in ICO's and airdrops I'm always submitting the KYC, and so far only like 2 of the last 10 were distributed to my ether wallet. I CAN totaly agree though, half of the time I'm not even sure where my I.d. and personaly information is going

I like the idea!!!!

OP few questions:
1) Is this stated in their ToS?
2) Did you accept their ToS when you registered? Usually there is box to tick, if you don't tick it then they can't enforce anything from ToS.
3) Is it licensed casino or not? If it is not licensed then they can't enforce KYC, if it is licensed then they can enforce it. Is it licensed casino?
I can't believe what I am reading. Are you seriously giving ID's for worthless airdrops?  ::)

People are dumb they think that airdrop can make them millionaires but that's never really the reality. You see currently there is a misconception about bitcoin that anyone can make easy money but the truth is half of them don't know shit about bitcoin

And also replying to your first reply well fortunejack doesn't have a licence and they still ask for kyc ::) Funny part you still promote it

Interesting.
Thank you for bringing this question.
I had very nice and friendly chat with their support after this post.
They fixed wrong link, you can check and verify their license if you want.

Isn't that the purpose of licenses for gambling sites? If a site has a license you should know where it's located and who the owner is, or at least the company that owns it, because in most of the times it's not a single person. If they have a license you should have all the information needed in order to open a case against them, if they ever cheat on you. The problem is that most users, at least in crypto, don't really care if the casino has a license or not, and don't even search for these things when they are gambling.

In physical casinos usually they are being regulated by the government so you can know the owner there but since KYC is common in cryptomarket I really think we need the regulatory board to know more about the company and the owner of online gambling. Well, gambling is gambling even we know the owner and proves its credibility they will always be the real winner in the long run.

It's the same with eating in a resto.
You need to follow the rules given by the owner or else go somewhere else.

The only thing that I could request for these casino owners is a proper introduction for the new users.
When I say introduction, it should contain all the rules and technicalities including the KYC's requested on a given event.
Users must be properly informed.

With the owner, they are mostly widely known since they have registered with the appropriate institutions everything about them is there for their customers to know and it's not like the owners are just taking the information, they are required by the law to get those information.

Hahaha. I wish something like that would be created. At least it will help reduce  the amount of people getting scammed daily by some online casino.  Even if  the KYC is not too visible like the way the popular one is, it could also help.  If this something like  KYO,  many fake casinos sites onwers can still create unlimited fake casino sites underground without its not easy
.... .

In some way, it is been done. Though, its not like the way the normal KYC verification is been done and carried out but the identifications of any new online casino owners are been required through a licensed. And I believe this will help in cutting down, fraud activities in the gambling industries.  It will also be better if every casino owners identifications will be place on their gambling website.

That is totally between them and the government where their jurisdictions lie. The KYC is a parameter given to them by the license and permit they had to get from the government. However, I believe there are a lot of casinos where the owners do not hide their identity to the public and some may do for security reasons which are best known to them. However, and unfortunately in life, things cannot always be even which is the reason we have odd numbers, don't you think?

Maybe it is high time for the government to make things equal as we have the right to also know who owns the casino that we make use of, either online or offline. I have not seen crypto gambling site that has ever asked for KYC though except I have just missed that, but in the short of it, we also deserve to know who owns those casinos as that will give room for sanity based on how some people are now turning it into a scam venture.

This casinos I know before entering this business already comply a required documents inorder to fully operate this kind of business its more long process before given any license than to conduct a KYC which can be done in an hour.

By which law? Laws are different around the world. You have plenty of casinos that do not require you to hand over your personal data.
That's why crypto is so great for gambling in the first place. You can play anonymously, without any requirements to hand over personal documents.

This whole KYC stuff is just ridiculous in my opinion. All in the name of preventing money laundering and stopping terrorism, while the majority of people use these services legally.
You're sending personal documents over the internet, often in very insecure ways. Don't be surprised if copies of your passport suddenly get offered for sale on darknet forums etc.

How do you think criminals commit identity theft? I would bet they do get their hands on stolen KYC documents from time to time.

And why do you need to know the owner if everything is okay with the site? The owner trusts himself, but he does not trust you. So if you want to provide him with the required documents, go ahead. If not, then do not enter the website. Added to that, the owner is not always there online, there are the support team, the staff, managers, and so on. When you want to complain about something, complain it to the manager not the owner.

Do you think we all are dumb just check on other forums it's so easy to get a legitmate license which is actually fake. Do you find it weird that the site itself didn't know the link they put is fake
I'm sure you are also aware of all the wrong things your site has done but you promote them so you can't really say anything against them

Maybe you can try to open your own gambling site and become their position. I'm sure that you will do the same, asking KYC.
For me , it's the law of nature but overall it's also depend on every country's policy on gambling site.

If they asking for KYC , it means that they are want to protect themself and learn from the past incident !

For sure you would comply the same thing because you are following countries law's. I know that gambling site owner knows on how gamblers do really mean their privacy but they dont have any choice but to ask KYC since its the protocol to be followed.If they wont then expect for them to be fined which we dont have any choice but to follow on what is being required.There are lots of gambling sites to chose if you dont like to expose your identity you can just step out and find another one. Knowing owners, you can make it thru research but whats the point on knowing them?

Know your customer doesn’t mean that casino wants your personal data. It means that they know how to treat their customers in better way so that they visit only that casino and tell his friends and other people about the positive attitude of the staff of casino. Know your customer is the key of success for any business in the world.

What the fuck are you talking about?
Do you even know what a KYC procedure is?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer

This is like a wake up call for everyone because casinos demand a transparency then we should also so we know how safe and secure our identity. It's kinda unfair for the players not to know the real thing behind this online casinos. Hope not only thr Fortune jack will be open for transparency but all casinos.

Both are important but not in gambling. Gambling is something different and you do not need to know the owner of casino. Gambling is not a job and there is no owner for you because you are not working in casino. KYC is important for casinos and other companies because the whole world is their customers and they should know their demands and needs.

Well they're the owners, they set the rules dude. That's the way things go in the world and we just have to live with it. With the number of users in a casino, the owners would have to secure their profit and limit bogus players. If you tell this to a casino owner, they'll likely just laugh it off and tell you that there are a lot of casinos to choose from

Yeah and it is right because casino is also keen about their security and authentication. A casino has many regular customers and they do not want any disturbance faced by their regular customers. That’s why they demand personal information before joining casino. It is good for their credibility, fairness and clean record. There is nothing wrong in it.

In gambling there is no KYC but only know your owner especially in online gambling because if you do not know the facts about the site and they provide gambling platform in their site you should never trust them because many of such sites are scams and they pay nothing to their users. It is better to gambler in regular casino or quit gambling.

The reason why this is happening is because we are the ones going to meet them and we are ruled by our greed as to the incentive we stand to gain from using their platform even though we might lose in the process, the chance and hope that we might win is what is really driving us to them which then puts them in the position of strength and when someone is in the position of strength, he dictates the terms and conditions of the arrangement.

The only person to call them to order and ask for all of those details is when we have a regulatory body that would ensure that the information they collect are not abused. I submit my details to the bank without knowing the board of directors simply because I know that there is another body overseeing their activities which is the Central Banks and that is what we need in this field if not for stiffing regulations, but for control and oversight.