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Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: Bitcoinpro on January 12, 2014, 05:02:59 AM



Title: D-Wave a company that claims to manufacture Quantum computers.
Post by: Bitcoinpro on January 12, 2014, 05:02:59 AM
http://www.dwavesys.com/en/products-services.html

I'm not sure about their claim to having quantum computers, whats the technology they use? seems like just semi-conductors.

Google says/claims it has speeds 3600 times faster than a normal computer, seems as though google has just purchased from a company

that is  a copy of Bitcoin Asics. Also the theory of Quantum computers having dual position seems stupid, obviously it is

switching positions or its not actually doing anything ?


Title: Re: D-Wave a Google owned company that claims to manufacture Quantum computers.
Post by: Bitcoinpro on January 12, 2014, 05:05:42 AM
The BS meter seems to go into quantum overdrive in this link  :D

http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/qubit

Superposition
Think of a qubit as an electron in a magnetic field. The electron's spin may be either in alignment with the field, which is known as a spin-up state, or opposite to the field, which is known as a spin-down state. Changing the electron's spin from one state to another is achieved by using a pulse of energy, such as from a laser - let's say that we use 1 unit of laser energy. But what if we only use half a unit of laser energy and completely isolate the particle from all external influences? According to quantum law, the particle then enters a superposition of states, in which it behaves as if it were in both states simultaneously. Each qubit utilized could take a superposition of both 0 and 1. Thus, the number of computations that a quantum computer could undertake is 2^n, where n is the number of qubits used. A quantum computer comprised of 500 qubits would have a potential to do 2^500 calculations in a single step. This is an awesome number - 2^500 is infinitely more atoms than there are in the known universe (this is true parallel processing - classical computers today, even so called parallel processors, still only truly do one thing at a time: there are just two or more of them doing it). But how will these particles interact with each other? They would do so via quantum entanglement.


Title: Re: D-Wave a Google owned company that claims to manufacture Quantum computers.
Post by: gmaxwell on January 12, 2014, 05:16:16 AM
D-wave isn't Google owned, though Google has bought one of their products before.

D-wave's devices are not, and are not claimed to b,e "quantum computers" in the sense of the term that computer scientists normally use the term. They cannot be used for many of the applications that in theory quantum computers could be used for such as faster attacks on some common cryptosystems, nor does anyone from d-wave say they can. Nor can they apply Grover's algorithm to get the generic quadratic speedup. They are not quantum turing complete, nor does anyone from d-wave say they are. Their design doesn't appear to be obviously extendable to make it quantum turing complete, either.

What they to is perform a very narrow kind of optimization process. For a long time there was a lot of controversy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Wave_Systems#History_of_controversy) if their device made any use of any quantum process at all or if it was just a kind of classical analog computer, though they finally published papers showing that they probably do. Even with that it not clear if dwave actually solves the narrow optimization problem its intended to solve faster than state of the art techniques on a boring classical computer (especially not a classical computer with equal costs).

In any case, the long and the short of it is that it's not of any relevance here. Don't let yourself get duped by marketing.


Title: Re: D-Wave a Google owned company that claims to manufacture Quantum computers.
Post by: Bitcoinpro on January 12, 2014, 05:22:08 AM
D-wave isn't Google owned, though Google has bought one of their products before.

D-wave's devices are not, and are not claimed to be "quantum computers" in the sense of the term that computer scientists normally use the term. They cannot be used for many of the applications that in theory quantum computers could be used for such as faster attacks on some common cryptosystems, nor does anyoen from d-wave say they can. They are not quantum turing complete, nor does anyone from d-wave say they are. Their design doesn't appear to be obviously extendable to make it quantum turing complete, either.

What they to is perform a very narrow kind of optimization process. For a long time there was a lot of controversy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Wave_Systems#History_of_controversy) if their device made any use of any quantum process at all or if it was just a kind of classical analog computer, though they finally published papers showing that they probably do. Even with that it not clear if dwave actually solves the narrow optimization problem its intended to solve faster than state of the art techniques on a boring classical computer (especially not a classical computer with equal costs).

In any case, the long and the short of it is that it's not of any relevance here. Don't let yourself get duped by marketing.


they do seem to making some kind of Quantum computing claim which seems to be fictional in every way shape and form


Title: Re: D-Wave a Google owned company that claims to manufacture Quantum computers.
Post by: tvbcof on January 12, 2014, 05:37:13 AM

they do seem to making some kind of Quantum computing claim which seems to be fictional in every way shape and form


Perhaps they learned some tricks Butterfly Labs?  I wonder if Google bought a pre-order or the real thing?  I wonder if the machines will work at least a little bit once the fan is flipped around?



Title: Re: D-Wave a Google owned company that claims to manufacture Quantum computers.
Post by: Bitcoinpro on January 12, 2014, 05:42:58 AM

they do seem to making some kind of Quantum computing claim which seems to be fictional in every way shape and form


Perhaps they learned some tricks Butterfly Labs?  I wonder if Google bought a pre-order or the real thing?  I wonder if the machines will work at least a little bit once the fan is flipped around?



ones thing is for sure, the company is good at making up quantum BS stories,

http://math-fail.com/images-old/quantum2.jpg


Title: Re: D-Wave a company that claims to manufacture Quantum computers.
Post by: testerx on January 12, 2014, 06:16:19 AM
What's with everyone in this thread bashing on D-Wave?  If it was really bullshit companies wouldn't be buying D-Wave's units.  Quantum computing is simply in it's very early stages, and it's benefits are going to be really limited to niche problems where regular processors do a really bad job.

And there's nothing BS about quantum physics, why would you doubt quantum superposition?  That's plain ignorant.


Title: Re: D-Wave a company that claims to manufacture Quantum computers.
Post by: greenlion on January 12, 2014, 06:44:08 AM
What's with everyone in this thread bashing on D-Wave?  If it was really bullshit companies wouldn't be buying D-Wave's units.  Quantum computing is simply in it's very early stages, and it's benefits are going to be really limited to niche problems where regular processors do a really bad job.

And there's nothing BS about quantum physics, why would you doubt quantum superposition?  That's plain ignorant.

It's because their product is "adiabatic" and does not necessarily work like a true quantum superposition-based computer would. There isn't even necessarily evidence that the universe even really works in such a way as to allow the theoretical conception of what a quantum computer would really be like to exist in the first place.


Title: Re: D-Wave a company that claims to manufacture Quantum computers.
Post by: empoweoqwj on January 12, 2014, 11:44:29 AM
What's with everyone in this thread bashing on D-Wave?  If it was really bullshit companies wouldn't be buying D-Wave's units.  Quantum computing is simply in it's very early stages, and it's benefits are going to be really limited to niche problems where regular processors do a really bad job.

And there's nothing BS about quantum physics, why would you doubt quantum superposition?  That's plain ignorant.

Yeah, D-wave is real. Quantum computing is real. Just in very early stages.


Title: Re: D-Wave a company that claims to manufacture Quantum computers.
Post by: MPOE-PR on January 12, 2014, 12:05:19 PM
This discussion lol was had over a year ago (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=131778.0).


Title: Re: D-Wave a company that claims to manufacture Quantum computers.
Post by: hamiltino on January 12, 2014, 06:08:15 PM
Its real. Google bought one of their computers.

Heres their youtube page: http://www.youtube.com/user/dwavesystems


Title: Re: D-Wave a company that claims to manufacture Quantum computers.
Post by: Meuh6879 on January 12, 2014, 06:15:28 PM
and ?

laser processor is always more fast than electrical processor ... and more easy to build.
so why quantum processor can exist ?

because it's a useless technology for many.


Title: Re: D-Wave a Google owned company that claims to manufacture Quantum computers.
Post by: jbreher on January 12, 2014, 07:31:14 PM
The BS meter seems to go into quantum overdrive in this link  :D

http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/qubit

Superposition
Think of a qubit as an electron in a magnetic field. The electron's spin may be either in alignment with the field, which is known as a spin-up state, or opposite to the field, which is known as a spin-down state. Changing the electron's spin from one state to another is achieved by using a pulse of energy, such as from a laser - let's say that we use 1 unit of laser energy. But what if we only use half a unit of laser energy and completely isolate the particle from all external influences? According to quantum law, the particle then enters a superposition of states, in which it behaves as if it were in both states simultaneously. Each qubit utilized could take a superposition of both 0 and 1. Thus, the number of computations that a quantum computer could undertake is 2^n, where n is the number of qubits used. A quantum computer comprised of 500 qubits would have a potential to do 2^500 calculations in a single step. This is an awesome number - 2^500 is infinitely more atoms than there are in the known universe (this is true parallel processing - classical computers today, even so called parallel processors, still only truly do one thing at a time: there are just two or more of them doing it). But how will these particles interact with each other? They would do so via quantum entanglement.

BS meter? Other than the bolded part above, it looks kosher to me. What part do you have an issue with?


Title: Re: D-Wave a company that claims to manufacture Quantum computers.
Post by: empoweoqwj on January 13, 2014, 03:15:54 AM
and ?

laser processor is always more fast than electrical processor ... and more easy to build.
so why quantum processor can exist ?

because it's a useless technology for many.

What are you trying to say here? "Laser processor" is next big  thing, not quantum processing?


Title: Re: D-Wave a company that claims to manufacture Quantum computers.
Post by: Littleshop on January 13, 2014, 03:21:20 AM
http://www.dwavesys.com/en/products-services.html

I'm not sure about their claim to having quantum computers, whats the technology they use? seems like just semi-conductors.

Google says/claims it has speeds 3600 times faster than a normal computer, seems as though google has just purchased from a company

that is  a copy of Bitcoin Asics. Also the theory of Quantum computers having dual position seems stupid, obviously it is

switching positions or its not actually doing anything ?

This has been covered many times here.  So far it does not do anything faster for the same money as conventional computing.  And at worst it is not even what they say it is. 

http://www.insidescience.org/content/d-wave-computers-solution-raises-more-questions/1453


Title: Re: D-Wave a company that claims to manufacture Quantum computers.
Post by: empoweoqwj on January 13, 2014, 03:52:58 AM
http://www.dwavesys.com/en/products-services.html

I'm not sure about their claim to having quantum computers, whats the technology they use? seems like just semi-conductors.

Google says/claims it has speeds 3600 times faster than a normal computer, seems as though google has just purchased from a company

that is  a copy of Bitcoin Asics. Also the theory of Quantum computers having dual position seems stupid, obviously it is

switching positions or its not actually doing anything ?

This has been covered many times here.  So far it does not do anything faster for the same money as conventional computing.  And at worst it is not even what they say it is. 

http://www.insidescience.org/content/d-wave-computers-solution-raises-more-questions/1453

Let's not get d-wave and "quantum computing" mixed up. Nextgen quantum computers will perform specific calculations at speeds unknown to to the fastest of today's supercomputers.


Title: Re: D-Wave a company that claims to manufacture Quantum computers.
Post by: Littleshop on January 13, 2014, 04:02:46 AM
http://www.dwavesys.com/en/products-services.html

I'm not sure about their claim to having quantum computers, whats the technology they use? seems like just semi-conductors.

Google says/claims it has speeds 3600 times faster than a normal computer, seems as though google has just purchased from a company

that is  a copy of Bitcoin Asics. Also the theory of Quantum computers having dual position seems stupid, obviously it is

switching positions or its not actually doing anything ?

This has been covered many times here.  So far it does not do anything faster for the same money as conventional computing.  And at worst it is not even what they say it is. 

http://www.insidescience.org/content/d-wave-computers-solution-raises-more-questions/1453

Let's not get d-wave and "quantum computing" mixed up. Nextgen quantum computers will perform specific calculations at speeds unknown to to the fastest of today's supercomputers.

We should not be talking about nextgen quantum computing too seriously before we even know if the first generation is real. 

Also quantum computing is really not applicable to SHA-256.


Title: Re: D-Wave a company that claims to manufacture Quantum computers.
Post by: empoweoqwj on January 13, 2014, 04:08:21 AM
http://www.dwavesys.com/en/products-services.html

I'm not sure about their claim to having quantum computers, whats the technology they use? seems like just semi-conductors.

Google says/claims it has speeds 3600 times faster than a normal computer, seems as though google has just purchased from a company

that is  a copy of Bitcoin Asics. Also the theory of Quantum computers having dual position seems stupid, obviously it is

switching positions or its not actually doing anything ?

This has been covered many times here.  So far it does not do anything faster for the same money as conventional computing.  And at worst it is not even what they say it is. 

http://www.insidescience.org/content/d-wave-computers-solution-raises-more-questions/1453

Let's not get d-wave and "quantum computing" mixed up. Nextgen quantum computers will perform specific calculations at speeds unknown to to the fastest of today's supercomputers.

We should not be talking about nextgen quantum computing too seriously before we even know if the first generation is real. 

Also quantum computing is really not applicable to SHA-256.

Quantum computing is real. That I do know.

Isn't it ideal "in principle" for things like breaking encryption?


Title: Re: D-Wave a Google owned company that claims to manufacture Quantum computers.
Post by: Peter R on January 13, 2014, 04:22:14 AM
D-wave isn't Google owned, though Google has bought one of their products before.

D-wave's devices are not, and are not claimed to b,e "quantum computers" in the sense of the term that computer scientists normally use the term. They cannot be used for many of the applications that in theory quantum computers could be used for such as faster attacks on some common cryptosystems, nor does anyone from d-wave say they can. Nor can they apply Grover's algorithm to get the generic quadratic speedup. They are not quantum turing complete, nor does anyone from d-wave say they are. Their design doesn't appear to be obviously extendable to make it quantum turing complete, either.

What they to is perform a very narrow kind of optimization process. For a long time there was a lot of controversy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Wave_Systems#History_of_controversy) if their device made any use of any quantum process at all or if it was just a kind of classical analog computer, though they finally published papers showing that they probably do. Even with that it not clear if dwave actually solves the narrow optimization problem its intended to solve faster than state of the art techniques on a boring classical computer (especially not a classical computer with equal costs).

In any case, the long and the short of it is that it's not of any relevance here. Don't let yourself get duped by marketing.

D-Wave is a Vancouver-based company and I have a physicist friend who works for them.  

If you push him hard enough he'll admit that these computers will never be factoring very large numbers, or finding the discrete logarithm of a random elliptic curve element, in a way that "breaks" RSA or EC cryptography.  Like gmaxwell said, these are computers designed to perform a very narrow kind of optimization process.  I am still unconvinced that they are taking advantage of any "quantum effects" at all.  I believe D-Wave and their employees want to keep some "mystique" around their product and company in order to keep everybody wondering.  




Title: Re: D-Wave a company that claims to manufacture Quantum computers.
Post by: smoothie on January 13, 2014, 04:26:54 AM
D-WAVE has been claiming they created a Quantum computer back in 2009. Still not something feasible for people to just "buy".


Title: Re: D-Wave a company that claims to manufacture Quantum computers.
Post by: Littleshop on January 13, 2014, 04:58:10 AM
http://www.dwavesys.com/en/products-services.html

I'm not sure about their claim to having quantum computers, whats the technology they use? seems like just semi-conductors.

Google says/claims it has speeds 3600 times faster than a normal computer, seems as though google has just purchased from a company

that is  a copy of Bitcoin Asics. Also the theory of Quantum computers having dual position seems stupid, obviously it is

switching positions or its not actually doing anything ?

This has been covered many times here.  So far it does not do anything faster for the same money as conventional computing.  And at worst it is not even what they say it is. 

http://www.insidescience.org/content/d-wave-computers-solution-raises-more-questions/1453

Let's not get d-wave and "quantum computing" mixed up. Nextgen quantum computers will perform specific calculations at speeds unknown to to the fastest of today's supercomputers.

We should not be talking about nextgen quantum computing too seriously before we even know if the first generation is real. 

Also quantum computing is really not applicable to SHA-256.

Quantum computing is real. That I do know.

Isn't it ideal "in principle" for things like breaking encryption?

So far that has yet to be proven.  See my link above.  That is not the only one, search a little yourself. 

Secondly quantum computing is not ideal "in principle" for breaking encryption.  It has yet to solve a single hash or be used to break ANY encryption method, even weak ones.  How could it be possibly considered ideal for this task?



Title: Re: D-Wave a company that claims to manufacture Quantum computers.
Post by: hamiltino on January 13, 2014, 08:34:15 AM
These things take time, relax and take a deep breath.

NSA is also working on one: http://rt.com/usa/quantum-computer-nsa-encryption-100/


Title: Re: D-Wave a company that claims to manufacture Quantum computers.
Post by: bitpop on January 13, 2014, 01:36:40 PM
They haven't proved it's real yet.


Title: Re: D-Wave a company that claims to manufacture Quantum computers.
Post by: bitbouillion on January 26, 2014, 07:39:53 PM
I don't understand very much, but it sound's very doubtful, that quantum computers will be useful any time soon :

http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=1643

(with many links to scientific studies)