Bitcoin Forum

We are in the early stages of developing the protocol that will change the world forever.
We are calling it Bitcloud, to separate it from Wetube, which is the interface. The main important features are:

• We are generating money from bandwidth sharing instead of mining!
• We introduce optional moderators to make the content of our net of very high quality (anyone can become a moderator).
• We optionally protect the IP and identity of the users and nodes that share delicate content
• And we have a blockchain too! But quiet different from actual ones.
• We don't initially own 100% of the coins like in Mastercoin or Next

YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO WORK WITH US IN THIS VERY EARLY PROCESS AND BECOME PART OF THE  TEAM DOING THE MAIN DECISSIONS.

In contrast to what Invictus and Mastercoin is doing (centralizing development and investment), I want, as an experiment, to make this process REALLY open, allowing anyone who wants to participate to share his opinion.

We are contacting developers and thinkers only now, as we don't want this project to become mainstream until we have something to really work in and a good bunch of developers.
Please, spread the word between developers, marketers, thinkers, and similar people. There is no way that 1, 2 or 5 people can do this big project alone. We must go together.

We are at #bitcloud and #wetube at freenode. You can also contact me by PM and/or mail.

THE EARLY STAGE OF THE PROTOCOL:
https://github.com/wetube/bitcloud/blob/master/bitcloud.org
(Please read the sections we already have. We are still deciding the blank ones.)

THE EARLY NON-TECHNICAL WHITE PAPER:
https://github.com/wetube/bitcloud/blob/master/Bitcloud%20Nontechnical%20White%20Paper.md

Join us!

Introduction: Explaining the Need for Bitcloud
The Emergence of Cloud Computing

One of the most important aspects of the Internet is that it allows people to communicate with each other in a decentralized manner. One user can connect directly to any other user around the world to share text, videos, audio, photos, and many other forms of media. As the Internet has evolved over time, more people have started to do their computing in the cloud rather than on their own computers. Since many computer users now have more than one device, they use the cloud to make sure that they can access all of their content from anywhere in the world. While this definitely improves convenience on the user's end, it also harms overall privacy. At the end of the day, the user has to trust the person who owns the server where all of their emails, photos, videos, and everything else is being stored. Although the world of the Internet started out as a decentralized network that allowed people to share information from many different parts of the world, it is now entering a phase of centralization through various forms of proprietary cloud services.

Examples of Centralized Cloud Computing Services

YouTube/Soundcloud

When videos and audio files first started to be shared by various users on the Internet, they were done so in a decentralized manner. One user would send a media file directly to a friend or colleague, or they would host the file on their own website to be streamed to anyone who was sent a link. Nowadays, most people share media files by posting them on a centralized hub of servers, usually YouTube or Soundcloud. The main problem with centralizing all of our media in a handful of companies is that they have ultimate control over the files on their websites. They can choose to delete any content when they deem it to be appropriate, or they can be forced to remove content by their local government. Centralized proprietary services also tend to take advantage of their place in the marketplace when it comes to creating large profit margins. Although YouTube does not see the same kind of profit margin that was seen by traditional television companies when it comes to placing advertisements on videos uploaded to their website, the reality is that they still take in far too much of a profit and leave the scraps for YouTube artists.

Dropbox/Google Drive/Mega

Most people think of Dropbox when they think about personal cloud storage. One of the main problems with storing all of your data with one company, such as Dropbox, is that they are a prime target for surveillance programs run by the NSA and other intelligence agencies around the world. In fact, we already know that the NSA is hoping to target Dropbox in the near future. Any centralized personal cloud storage company is also likely to offer less competitive pricing because of a lack of intense competition in the marketplace.

Amazon Web Services/HostGator

If you are hosting a website on another company's centralized servers, then the user accounts on your web platform can be subject to unauthorized surveillance. A lack of competition in this market also exists because it is difficult for anyone in the world to decide that they want to start a web hosting company. A centralized host can also decide to shut down your website and delete everything on the spot or be forced to do so by their local government. This is what happened in the case of MegaUpload where everyone's files hosted on the web servers were deleted, even if they had nothing to do with Internet piracy.

Gmail/Whatsapp

Although centralized, cloud-based messaging platforms may be something that is better replaced by Bitmessage or another proof of work based blockchain, the reality is that these centralized servers could also be replaced by Bitcloud. It is not yet known which solution will turn out to be the best option for users when it comes to privacy and security.

Ustream/Justin.tv


Centralized streaming services are another cloud platform that are subject to censorship. If the hosting company or local government does not like your content, they can easily shut it down.

Proprietary Cloud Services All Have Similar Problems

As you can see, many of the current solutions for cloud-based services have a few common problems. Let's take a look at three of the main issues that we are trying to solve with the Bitcloud protocol:

1. Privacy and Free Software

After the Summer of Snowden, many people from around the world are becoming more interested in computing solutions that provide real privacy and security. While proprietary cloud networks will claim that they care about your privacy and do everything in their power to protect it, the reality is that you still have to trust these companies to follow through on their word. With Bitcloud, we can offer a trustless version of privacy and security that is completely open to scrutiny. Personal cloud storage services built on top of Bitcloud can force users to encrypt their files locally before they are uploaded to the Bitcloud network. This means that the nodes will not be able to decrypt the files that they are storing. This kind of encryption is currently not turned on by default for proprietary options, such as Dropbox, but we feel that it is something that any cloud service should have turned on by default. This kind of local encryption is needed to be turned on by default much like how HTTPS should be turned on by default for every website. This allows the amount of user error related to privacy to be lowered.

It's also important to realize that you cannot achieve true security if you can't also look at the source code of the software or protocol that is handling your data. Bitcloud is going to be free and open source, which means you will be able to look closely at the ways in which your privacy is protected. It is possible that proprietary systems could be built on top of Bitcloud, but they will lose out to the kinds of services that decide to also make their services completely free and open source. If you cannot read the source code of the service that is holding your data, then you do not know if it is actually secure.

The unmoderated layer of Bitcloud will also allow for another layer of anonymity. Since everything in the unmoderated layer of Bitcloud will be router through Tor or other similar anonymizing networks, the node where a user's data is sent will not know the true IP address of the user. The node will not know the identity of the user, and the user will not know the identity of the node.

2. Censorship

The underlying, unmoderated layer of Bitcloud will not be subject to any censorship. While it is true that there will be moderators who provide their own services on top of Bitcloud, a user will have more options when it comes to the type of censorship they want to have on their data. For example, there may be a moderator who sets up a number of video streaming nodes that will accept all content except for child pornography. As long as users don't upload anything related to child pornography, they will have nothing to worry about. There is also the possibility that a moderator could change his or her censorship terms over time as their group of nodes becomes more popular, but then another moderator could pop up who holds the original values of the moderator who has decided to change his or her ways.

3. High Costs

One last factor to consider when it comes to decentralizing the cloud services on the web is cost. You may be thinking that services such as YouTube and Gmail are free, but the fact of the matter is that these kinds of services come with a high cost. Google wants to track everything you watch, read, or type while you are using their services, which means it is impossible for them to provide a secure, private, and censorship resistant service. The hidden cost of using services that are paid for with a Google-style advertising model is that Google gets to track all of your activity on YouTube and read all of your emails. By making it rather trivial for someone to create a a new cloud service from the comfort of their own home, we can add much needed competition to the cloud service industry and lower costs quite dramatically.

How it Works

This will be a rather brief explanation of the inner workings of the Bitcloud protocol. For more technical details, you can take a look at the Bitcloud Protocol Wiki.

The Bitcloud Protocol

Proof of Bandwidth

Bitcloud works on a proof of stake variation known as proof of bandwidth. The nodes in this system are similar to the miners in the Bitcoin protocol in that they confirm everything on the blockchain every ten minutes. Instead of using a proof of work system where miners are looking for the solution to a complex mathematical equation, the nodes in Bitcloud are rewarded based on their share of the total amount of bandwidth used in the Bitcloud network. Each block reward is distributed among the nodes based on their share of the overall amount of bandwidth needed by the Bitcloud users.
Moderators

Although nodes will not know what kind of data is stored on their local server, they will be able to subscribe to moderators who can filter out any unwanted content. Moderators can basically censor certain types of content from being stored on a nodes computer. The difference between this and the current system of centralized cloud services is that there will likely be an endless number of moderators who have different types of restrictions when it comes to the type of data that can be stored on their nodes' servers. Perhaps some moderators will specialize in only allowing people to upload news videos, while other moderators will allow people to upload almost anything as long as it is encrypted and not shared with many other people. This is a way for the nodes to remain neutral and follow the laws of their own countries.

Unmoderated

In addition to the option to have moderators pick what can be stored on their servers, nodes will also be able to choose to host unmoderated content. There are both advantages and disadvantages to this option. The data will be routed through many different nodes before it gets to the end-user, so cloud storage will more expensive. On the other hand, the unmoderated network will allow people to host and share content that will not be traced back to the uploader or the node. The data will be sent through a variety of different nodes in a similar many in which the Tor network works.

Bitcloud is a Distributed Autonomous Corporation

If you're unfamiliar with decentralized applications or distributed autonomous corporations, then you may want to look into the explanations offered by the Mastercoin Foundation and Invictus Innovations.

Providing a Service and Getting Paid

The Bitcloud protocol is a decentralized application that provides the service of cloud storage. Users will interact with this service in a variety of different ways, but the main idea behind the protocol is that people will be able to store data in the cloud in a way that limits censorship, surveillance, and centralization. Moderators and nodes are providing a service to their users, and they need to be paid to cover their costs. Mediacoins are the currency of the Bitcloud protocol, much like bitcoins are the currency of the Bitcoin protocol. You need bitcoins to use the Bitcoin payment system, and you need mediacoins to use Bitcloud in certain ways. For example, someone who wants to advertise on a public video that is streamed from a Bitcloud node will have to pay for that advertisement in mediacoins. Another example would be someone who wants to pay for personal cloud storage on the Bitcloud network.

Opportunities for Investors

In a way, mediacoins can be viewed almost as stock in Bitcloud. Investors who purchase mediacoins in the early stages of development will notice that they get a return on their initial investment once more users begin to use the network. Mediacoins will become more valuable as more people use the Bitcloud network because the number of mediacoins needed to pay for certain services on the Bitcloud network will increase as more people are bidding for those services. This setup also encourage growth of the Bitcloud network because early adopters will want to tell everyone about the Bitcloud platform due to the fact that they basically hold stock in the distributed autonomous corporation.

Future Applications on Top of the Bitcloud Protocol

WeTube

WeTube was the basis for the creation of the proof of bandwidth idea. WeTube can act as a replacement for YouTube, Netflix, Hulu, Soundcloud, and other audio and video streaming systems. The decentralized nature of WeTube will allow users to share content with the world without having to worry about censorship or privacy concerns. In addition to the ability for nodes and moderators to get paid through this DAC, artists can also get paid by opting to get a cut of the advertising revenue that is generated on their content. They can also opt to have their content remain ad-free while it is being hosted by the nodes, but there may be a fee for this service.

Decentralized Personal Cloud Storage

Another app that can be built on top of Bitcloud would deal with personal cloud storage. Using an unmoderated form of cloud storage would be possible through relayed, Tor-based connections. This means the user wouldn't know where their files were stored and the nodes wouldn't know who sent them the files. The files would also be encrypted, so the nodes won't know what they are storing either. There could also be moderated forms of cloud storage where different types of files are allowed to be stored at different rates.

Decentralized Web Hosting

In a form of decentralized web hosting based on the Bitcloud protocol, it would be impossible for a web server to be shut down because it would be distributed to many different nodes across the world. Hidden services for Tor and i2p could also be hosted on Bitcloud.

More

There are probably many other applications for Bitcloud that we haven't thought about yet. If you have any ideas, don't hesitate to contact us.

Contact Information

If you'd like to talk to us or ask us questions, you can find us in #wetube on freenode IRC. There will usually be someone in there willing to talk to you.

Oh god, some real programming in altcoins! Wishing luck.

Where is your BTC adress so I can send some little 10 BTC?

reserved.

I mean, where to send BTC?  :-*

Clever idea!

Sounds fascinating, where do I sign up?

If you want to donate, I have open a new Bitcoin account: 1CiMKzBJshq7nhCCdyRJgaTq4cw6SzaQsz
I will distribute the amount donated to the developers once the project is about to be launched, or for expenses as they come.

But please, be aware, what we need now are developers and thinkers. If you are not a Bitcoin rich owner, It will be better to spread the word between developers and thinkers. WE ARE NOT READY FOR MAINSTREAM YET, but publicity between developers is what we need right now.

Contact us at IRC (freenode), #wetube.

Simple saying,
Thats mean Bitcloud using the download/upload speed to get the coins and earn money?

Yeah. Bandwidth sharing in Bitcloud is the equivalent of mining in Bitcoin.
But there must be a lot of rules to avoid fraud and ensure a good balance between quality and earnings.

What are the benefits of early investing?

We are still thinking this part. Remember that we want to be really open so we are listening to everyone.

We have thought to give some coins for developers, and we plan to put a very low difficulty the first month, so we incentive early adopters. After that month, money is generated more accordingly to the real bandwidth costs.
Anyway we need to maintain an equilibrium in order for nodes to keep running. If we give too much the first month, there is the risk that nobody after that would want to maintain a node.
We need some economic calculations and predictions so we can find the correct constants/variables to ensure a successful start.

Our main task is to become useful to everyone. We don't think about this project in terms of making rich someone or ourselves, but to be a REAL good tool for humanity to move forward in evolution and freedom, while ensuring correct money generation and distribution.
We are against monopolies, including cyrptocurrency monopolies like Mastercoin, NXT, or any other form of centralized initial ownership.

And because our main motivation is not to become rich at the expense of others, we need some special economics.

This is why we don't only need developers, but also economists and marketers.

I'm not that techy, so sorry for the noob question ;D Could you speak of Bitcloud as a kind of TOR/Freenet/I2P anonymous "darknet" hosting then? Sounds like a really innovative approach!!!

You are half right. We are providing protected content in the same way as TOR/Freenet/I2P provides, but we also provide unprotected content for several reasons:

- Protected content increases costs (several nodes must participate).
- Unprotected content is much faster to serve.
- Nodes serving protected content can hide themselves between unprotected content.
- Most normal people don't need protection. Remember, we are also an alternative to Youtube/Dropbox, etc.
- Companies don't require protected content.
- Advertisers don't usually want to be associated with delicate protected content.

So we have BOTH.

How is this different to Datacoin?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=325735.0

Datacoin is proof of work where the data is stored in the blockchain. Bitcloud is proof of bandwidth, a completely new concept. We don't store all of the data in the blockchain, so we can scale to handle videos, audio, and bigger types of data.

Basic questions:

1. Where is the data stored? How much redundancy? Obviously you need data to serve content.
2. How do you ensure that users are actually serving the correct data?
3. How will you validate the amount of data being served? (Imagine that an attacker controls both sending and receiving nodes. It would be trivial to fake the amount of bandwidth "used").
4. What types of data will you disallow? (This has many important legal consequences, as I'm sure you can imagine.) If everything is "allowed", I'd imagine most users unwilling to participate in fear of lawsuits/retaliation/subpoenas.
5. What is a "coin"? (unit of storage/bandwidth?) What is "difficulty"?

Couldn't someone just share with themselves?

Interessting, If I understood correctly, this works Torrent, only difference is that this uses the experience acquired from cryptocurrency to provide privacy, to maintain the system working, and to award the users.

I see that the fondamentals are great and it's a rational idea, but I have several questions, from a technical standpoint, but I guess it's still to early now, as from what I read you guys still looking for devs and brainstorming

So it's the idea on paper, but no dev nor code?

Gonna read

I've been working with Liberman on a lot of the basic concepts, but I don't understand how some things will work technically.

1. Data is stored in nodes (the "miners"). The system is being setup so more nodes host the most popular content. The amount of redundancy depends on the popularity of the content.
2. Users will interact with Bitcloud in a client where they basically search through the files that are approved by a moderator. The moderator will have a list of files that its nodes store locally. I assume some form of verification mechanism can be used to make sure the node's files match the moderator's list.
3. Nodes cannot cheat the system because there are multiple nodes sharing the same file. The node that the user connects to is chosen at random.
4. Everything is allowed on the unmoderated system that will work on an anonymized layer, similar to Tor. On top of that, moderators will be able to set guidelines for content uploaded to their nodes. A node can choose to follow a few different moderators or simply allow unmoderated content to be stored on their server.
5. The coins represent bandwidth. A block reward is given out every 10 minutes. The block reward is distributed to all nodes. The node's share of the block reward depends on their share of the total bandwidth used by Bitcloud users.

Edit: Decided to go ahead and answer number 3.

I assume this is a torrent-like scheme where files are broken into independent, verifiable (by hash) pieces, is that correct?

Storing data in nodes seems to assume unbounded storage space. How will you make sure that nodes actually have the requisite storage space? Particularly important for high bandwidth, storage constrained systems (I'm talking about VPSes, of course, which will probably be the source of the majority of the bandwidth).

It seems like this could be used for nefarious purposes (I'm talking about DDoS); will there be measures to control how many coins a potential attacker can get and/or use at the same time?

It also seems like at least in the beginning, the system will not come close to even saturating bandwidth. In that case, what determines who gets block rewards? Random chance? Latency?

I look at it as a way of monetizing torrent streaming; at least for the WeTube DAC that will be built on top of BitCloud. We definitely want as many questions as possible to come our way because it will help us with the brainstorming process. There are too many different aspects of the protocol for us to handle on our own right now, which is why we're seeking devs.


Correct. We are searching for devs to help us turn this idea into a reality.


As of right now, the system is not breaking files into pieces. The nodes store the entire file. Multiple nodes have to be able to store the full file to make sure that nodes can't cheat the system. I haven't discussed breaking up files into parts with Liberman, but that seems like something that would make sense for larger moderators with a lot of nodes.

You are correct in assuming that VPSs will be the majority of the nodes. If the files on the nodes server don't match the file list from the moderator, they get dropped from the system. Having said that, I think your question points out the need for breaking down files into pieces. This system could work as long as the nodes were still chosen at random. We still have to make sure nodes can't cheat the system.

You'll have to wait for an answer from Liberman for your last point.


See point #3 from my previous post.

The same project already in china runing...
You can visit the website https://jiaoyi.yunfan.com/
We call the software name is LIULIANGKUANG
Software serives QVOD。

Is there a place to read about this software in English?

No, it is not going to be anything similar to Bittorrent. We don't split files into chunks. In fact, we use tha simple to use and difficult to censor HTTP protocol as a base.

We ensure storage space by the Storage Law (yet to write, but in our minds). Basically means that if a node doesn't have enough space to store the content of the moderators he selected, it is penalized or even banned.

Aboutt the DDOS attacks, we are thinking in the Abuse Law, which will ensure that nobody tries to abuse bandwidth, or make short circuit connections, etc.

We don't use the same system as Bitcoin. Our blockchain is different. All nodes recieve money in proportion to what they have shared and nothing more. There are no chances, it is a simple division.

Please read what we have of the protocol, blank chapters are to be thought:

https://github.com/wetube/bitcloud/blob/master/bitcloud.org

Datacoin dev is working on personal (node) chains, so that the main chain will only store indices and meta data.  Files, pictures, movie clips etc will be on the node chains.  This is to avoid bloating the main Datacoin blockchain.

Datacoin dev has just finished Datacoin blockchain HTTP server:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=405992.0;all

Interesting. Last time I checked on that project personal chains were theoretical. Glad to hear they made progress. Having said that, I think they would still have problems. Can users stream videos from the blockchain? If so, how is the bandwidth paid for? Another difference is that Bitcloud can potentially be used to bootstrap a brand new mesh network with profit incentive in the future. "Mining" bandwidth instead of storing meta data in the blockchain seems like a better option.

Plus, in our project money is generated for bandwidth sharing and downloading/uploading content is always free. And not to speak about moderators, which is probably a very big step forward for providing quality content and avoid legal issues.

Yes, you are right - dev has said that personal blockchains are at concept stage and will take months to work on.  What excites us however is that he constantly delivers the code that he talks about - so I am really looking forward to the personal blockchains.

I am not sure about videos but pictures have been uploaded into Datacoin blockchain.

https://krypte.net/dtc/txid/a2784925fe6a147c85ed8a4694d4f3e8f616141d7c7dc548b70e3d8f25a651fb

(You must register on the site to access the picture)

The idea of a meshnet has been discussed in threads but not by dev - idea in threads is that Datacoin + Namecoin could be used to make a meshnet, with nodes connected directly by Wifi.  But there is no code - just an idea.

This looks amazing. I would love to be part of this. I am a graphic designer and I can do some  graphic for You :)

Great! You are the first graphic designer to contact us. Please join us at #bitcloud and #wetube at freenode IRC.

The moderation concept is more advanced because it allows to separate the actual storage from moderation. In our system, each node can be attached to a number of moderators, and anyone can become a moderator.
Most importantly, our content will be avaiable in any place. For example, someone can embed a video of us

About the delivery of the code, we are just in the first stage of writing the protocol. We have made this public because we really want people to contribute with ideas. We are against centralization even for development and brainstorming.

Well, at least your team is trying to do something new...
But I have the feeling it will stay vaporware...
At least in this "form". (looks more like a bunch of imprecise ideas put together)
Best of luck to you guys.

But just by reading this tread there is some major flaw.
(Almost) seem like you do not understand how BItcoin itself works.

The purpose of "proof of x" is not to generate money... It is to provide security.
You lunch the idea proof of bandwidth.
The idea behind it is simple: I upload stuff = I make money.
But reality is not simple as that.

Bandwidth in itself is useless.
What matter is the size - and arguably the speed - of your uploading.

I don't see how you start your project...
You talk about "mediacoin". At the start there is no mediacoin...
How do you create them? premine = people not interested

You cannot create coin using bandwidth...
For uploading (obviously) you need data.
1kB text or 2GB movie? whom? (+interest matter)
Then you need this data to be (ideally) on all node without exception.
Or create a more complex system where each node provide the data it wishes, and get pay by the guy who wish to have his data on you node and many node.

Honestly, at this stage, I'm not even interested to join your thinker team.
Come back in 3 month with something much more solid.
Then I'm glad to help.

Think that each mediacoin must have the same value than another.
Let say I upload a 2GB movie on a seedbox, then from a FTH client with another IP I download my own file over and over again, just to win more mediacoin.
Nothing block that.
What make your mediacoin have any value? nobody will trade your BTC for that.
Too easy to create your own loop and create mediacoin with your idea.

Beside if I wish to upload 10GB of valuable data to me in your network, why would anyone host it if there is no public demand for it?
People make no money seeding a file nobody DL, in your system.

It's absurd...
And your moderation/censorship add more problem that it improve any quality.

Really, come back in 3 month. Or a year... No offence.

_________________
edit 6 days later: it keep coming in my mind that my comment was maybe a bit harsh.
I repeat: my point was not to offend. Friend here.
Best luck to your project. Need more idea in these fields.
That say: may I suggest your consider Proof of Upload? 'seem much more logical to me

China really need it

Yeah, this should be the same idea with @liberman
People can get money from mining with bandwidth.

so you guys are leaving bitshares behind and design your own protocol?

I like it, I manage a few servers, could make nodes and/or host stuff.

This is an AMAZING idea. But it need yet a lot of development. I will follow it very close. Good luck!

I think it's a good idea.
Is there a place where I can subscribe to a mailing list to be announced when the mining can begin?

Interesting but any updates?

Making bandwidth marketable would incent people to build their own networking infrastructure which could lead to a future of truly decentralized, grass roots, bottom up approach to world wide networking. If you guys can pull this off, this is the sort of thing that could potentially save the human race from extinction or worse. If this is serious, and you guys actually have a reasonable shot at pulling this off, i want to be part of this.

I would like to be a part of this too.

Proof of Bandwidth, New concept

this is quite interesting jus thinking about it.

I'm with you. IF they are serious, this could be huge. Very huge.

seems working =)
google translate can help

I see no option to cashout to BTC/fiat, only to pay some services.

I can read Chinese, and I can confidently say LIULIANGKUANG is very, very different from Bitcloud. There are only similar in the idea of "reward by bandwidth".

First, it's a project serves a COMMERCIAL company, namely 深圳市快播科技有限公司 or Shenzhen QVOD Technology Co.
Second, all bandwidth in the system are facilitated by QVOD and QVOD only. QVOD is also the name of the video player of the company,
and with the important feature of P2P video sharing. And the most famous adult-video-spreading software in China, it's simply known as the "Adult Video Player".
Third, the reward, 矿石(meaning ore), can only cashout in "kuai coin（快币）", a virtual currency issued by QVOD, and "kuai coin" in turn can only pay for certain services as the company chooses.

Apparently, there is absolutely no consideration of privacy taken in LIULIANGKUANG, and the reward not even near to incent infrastructure building, it could't even payout the cost of net charge and electricity. So it's only a preferable option if you don't have much to do anyway while the computer is open.

So, all people concerning bitcloud, the territory you have glimpsed is still a virgin land! And if it succeeds, can really change the world for better. Best regards.

looks cool

I slightly edited my previous post.
Suggesting Proof of Upload.

What do you mean by PROOF OF BANDWIDTH?

Is it a proof of uploading something to a network, or a proof of routing something, from one network node to another?

I think tha a proof of bandwidth can only make sense in routing, and not in uploading.

I also think that the total amount of bandwidth coins should be a stable number, that it will be divided to the number of network nodes that praticipate in this bandwidth proof scheme.

But, in contrast to the bitcoin scheme where old miners hold most of the bitcoins and new miners hold none, in this bandwidth proof scheme, the new members, whenever they join the cloud and they offer bandwidth, they automatically get coins (given by the old members) as percentage of the total amount of coins that exist.

bitcloud haven't even been heard of by the masses jus yet

& coindesk has managed to put out an article on their project

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcloud-decentralise-revolutionise-internet/

Why, they dilute investment opportunities too early on? ;)

But seriously, it's very interesting.

Today, whoever controls the bandwidth, controls the Internet. Wikileaks with it's constant bandwidth problems at time due to DDOS attacks, is a good example for that.

Taking this power back from corporations hand, would be quite attractive endeavor.

Liked it until I read the moderation part. I expected a Tahoe-LAFS type system, https://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs and Freenet, where no one knows what or what kind of content is actually on any of the computers, and the data is partially redundent and completely encrypted. Adding the moderation capability amounts to designing in vulnerability. The system is no longer 'net neutral'.

At the moment the ideas behind BitCloud really need a lot more thought, but it is a great opportunity for Devs and Thinkers to get together and make something happen.


Proof of bandwidth

I would argue that you cannot make an analogy with Proof-of-Stake or Proof-of-work. Its more like "evidence" for Bandwidth. You as a node want to show the network that you really did provide 100mb worth of useful file transfers, and that you didn't lie and that you didn't just transfer to other nodes you also control.

I would like to see how you can achieve Network consensus about the level of contribution that a particular node made.

Moderation should be after-the fact

I might be a little confused with the concept. Each storage node can subscribe to a number of other nodes and choose to act as their mirrors?

So it seems like you are taking a 'Whitelisting' approach. A storage node will only store stuff that has been pre-approved by a moderator.

However, in the real world most people would want to encrypt their data and this should be encouraged. So this pre-approval process cannot work as the moderator will not have the decryption key.

So it would seem better to simply encourage the use of encryption for everything while allowing moderators to perform a best-effort bad-content-censorship-with-consent process.  Whenever the moderator sees a (file hash, crypto key) pair to be dodgy content, he can update a blacklist and push to his followers.

But it really would be extremely futile.

Risk of price fixing?

How does the network decide who gets paid what? How can the network encourage competition between nodes and establish a true market price for bandwidth?

If the network is always deciding the price, then this could be a problem and could be seen as price-fixing

Do the minimum

Don't try to solve the world's problems all in one go, just focus on the smallest possible core problem and solve it well.

Look at existing work and don't reinvent when not totally necessary

Try to build upon existing work instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. For example, do your nodes need network-level anonymity? Yes. Well this is out of the scope of your project, your nodes can operate over I2P or Tor, don't waste 10 months trying to do it yourselves.

Look at existing distributed data structures (Kademlia, Freenet / BitTorrent / Tahoe) and examine how one can incentivize participation. Don't try to design your own unless really necessary.


Read the literature

There is a lot of related work out there, build from it

It has to be neutral. Whats the point of this otherwise?

Right. The entire system and its content should be encrypted by default, with no unencrypted data, period. It should be impossible to know where any data is stored, and ideally, data is distributed in partially redundant encrypted pieces across servers.

Hello.
Similar systems already exists.

You can check this:
http://offsystem.sourceforge.net/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owner_free_filing_system
http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/blocksnet/index.php?title=Main_Page

Thanks for the links. This should make development easier - just add the cryptocurrency to the distributed cloud system.

any updates?