Bitcoin Forum

Im a US citizen and am still confused with the current crypto tax interpretation. In October of 2017 I traded some litecoin for another crypto. Then in January 2018 the tax bill passed and eliminated the like to like exchanges of crypto.

My interpretation is that since I made the trade before the law changed then I did not create a taxable event. Am I wrong in this interpretation?

tax from the people to the people. I agree if bitcoin is taxed, but the tax must be managed for bitcoin back.

I think the tax is the absolute right of the state to be used for the benefit of the state. eg for the construction of bridges and toll roads.

If you are asked to pay taxes, then pay them, and if no one addressed you, then do not pay.

you talking tax, while the legality of bitcoin is still questionable. I think it's still too early to talk about tax issues.

As a US citizen that's not true at all. People have been paying taxes on Bitcoin related things for many years now. Avoiding taxes in the US while doing business with US based Bitcoin companies is good way to draw the attention of the IRS. And in some cases end up in jail.

Highly recommended to consult an accountant when it comes to tax issues. That's one thing you can't really afford to mess up.

I do not think there's anything wrong. At least there is no written warning from the tax system then you're still tax-free for your activities. Not that you do not want to pay taxes, but make sure if they start applying the tax law on cripto to their tax system then let the system ask you to pay.
It is still the beginning and needs a lot of improvement. It is feared that certain people will do bad things if you are not listed as a taxpayer on the system and you pay taxes to the wrongsides.

You have to declare all income, no matter what it is. It does not matter to the tax authorities, how you obtained that income

and if it was not defined or regulated at the time. It is still a income that you had to declare, so you might have to pay some

sort of penalty or declare the income in the next financial year. Just go speak to them and ask the questions from them and

they might even expunge the penalties. I spoke to my authorities and they helped me to declare the income from previous

years, without any penalties.  8)

No, Bitcoin tax dose not pay. Because it dose not exist online.

Is there any tax that are involve in using and implementing bitcoin ? What is the purpose of the money and how much interest it would take ? It should be fair . We should all have taxes when the campaign and bitcoin will be legalize .

maybe this happened to me. depending pemeintahnya want given taxpayer or not. Given the bitcoin is a foreign coin, and the regulation in Indonesia is quite large. giving taxes to the bitcoins for its users could be an additional payment for Indonesia.

Tax is for everyone....  Government used this system for our own good also....  But in this case if we are the one who pay taxes I will surely agree if we are also the one who will be benefited by it....  Working here is not easy and if tax is really impose here somehow it will affects us especially if we are just inly starting here...  But if the government use our tax to develop our security against scammer and hacker then probably tax is great....   

I would get with some kind of tax expert. I don't know how much money we are talking about. I hope that my tax software takes care of all these laws by asking the right questions, but we need to know so we can anticipate potrntial tax costs and trade with that in mind.

You probably need to talk to an accountant or tax attorney. Taken as a given that the tax law passed in January eliminated the like to like exchanges being a taxable event (and I'm taken this as a given because I don't actually know if this is true, as this is the first I've heard of it), but if true, it would make sense to me that you would not claim the exchange of Litecoin to another crypto as a taxable event because you're not calculating the tax burden until April and in April you use the laws that are current at that time, which would include the January change. It would be like if you owned a stock that pays dividends all year, in April of the next year you would have to calculate how much tax you owe on this dividend payments, but if in January the law changed and said dividends are tax free, I assume you would likewise not have to pay taxes on the dividends the previous year because as of the tax filing deadline, the law says no income tax on dividends.

However, this logic needs to be vetted by actual tax professionals. It's a shame that no response in this thread is even on point to the OP.

I already heard that tax is imposed for crypto currency in some countries but I do not have the idea as to the system or their procedure. But I think if there is no written notice for you maybe it does not matter.

As a rule, laws do not work 'backwards' which means any now-unlawful activity which was commited before the law came into effect, is not restricted by that law.

Not only Bitcoin, I think that all other cryptocurrencies can not be taxed. Of course, as long as we do not know how much information is bought and sold by taking information from the stock market addresses where we share our identity information. If these stock market addresses share this information with the states, then make sure that we do not see taxation depending on those amounts. That's why we must avoid identity verification, I think that we can protect so much of the profits if we give our company information.

Except we haven't been able to stop the tide of identity verification/KYC/AML ect. It's just gotten worse and worse over time.

You know it's getting bad when you hear about Localbitcoins starting to require that type of verification in some cases. It's an uphill battle and it seems we're losing it.

I really doubt that you are going to get the very meaningful answers here, it is better for you to contact a tax attorney and even better try to find one that has experience with cryptocurrencies, you're going to be charged for it but believe me a few hours consulting a tax attorney will save you a lot of headaches in the future so do it and see what he says to you.

about the implementation of taxes on each bitcoin transaction actually it has happened but it is still a discount or transaction fee made by each exchange, I think the government only need to levy taxes on the exchange company or market it alone, it will be more efficient when compared with the collection directly to the bitcoin owner

Some forces are trying to consider Bitcoin as an asset so that they may be able to get taxes on everything a Bitcoin user buys. Bitcoin is not an asset but a currency which is favorable for transaction of money and a source of investment therefore it is a currency and not an asset. Bitcoin user should not pay tax on Bitcoins because this is your own money and not an asset.

Tax is not a bad thing and all the money a government has in the account is actually the tax money that it uses for the defense and development of the infrastructure of the country. If government intervenes in the crypto and implements regulations in the use of Bitcoin technology, it can very soon implement a taxation law as well and all the people who earn from the technology should pay the income tax which I would never like.

Bitcoin is not an asset and one should not pay taxes on Bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies as this is called a digital currency and has no physical existence and besides it this is not the asset of a center so we should not pay and why should we pay tax if we are working without the help of others and making money for ourselves without the involvement of governments then it is all ours to keep.

So, if an investor sells a crypto currency after holding it for more than a year, then the profit is usually a long-term capital gain. If previously you are not taxed then when the regulation made for your taxes will be imposed because you are still using crypto at the time the regulation is made.

You're not wrong OP and I'm surprised either that you're been charged for the crypto currency transaction you did right before the crypto currency tax bill was passed and it either the exchange site were the one doing this on their own or they are trying to please the law maker.

If government wants to collect tax on your trading then it is legal.

We need to be smart ,like a criptocurency

Tax laws generally don't work that way. If they pass an update for the tax law, it will usually apply to the entire year, even if it was not passed until the end of the year. This is especially the case because you use the laws that are in place at the time you file your taxes, and you file your taxes several months after the end of the year, so you will have to use the laws in place at that time. If they pass a law changing the tax rate on dividends or income in December, it will apply to all the dividends and income you earned all year, not only after December. Tax laws routinely "work backwards."

the government makes a taxation regulation which means there is a huge benefit for bitcoin users therefore a tax on aga agaar what not only the government can benefit but also all the risks later government will take responsibility.

I think you should do more research. Currently, there are around 70 countries worldwide where bitcoin is welcomed and its use is legal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country), and also being taxed by some countries along with other cryptocurrencies. In the United States alone, Bitcoin is legal in all of its states and territories. However, although it can be used like money the government or IRS does not consider it to be money or legal tender, instead, they treat bitcoin (and altcoins) just like gold as property for tax purposes.

I wonder what happens during a crash; the government should provide compensation.

Perhaps.  ;D

Tax is good thing that to be paid for every profit gain from the bitcoin. So that the tax should be used for the social and economical condition of the nation. But for the tax, governments of all countries should have to make bitcoin legal in their country so that to take tax on bitcoin.

Usually I'm convert my btc into fiat and they have apply tax for it. So you can check when you try to withdraw your btc through exchange !
As long as you've been apply on tax, I think you're worry less

For tax, government should have to make bitcoin legal in their country. because tax is only to be paid on legal profit gains. so i think its a good idea, make it legal in all countries and take tax. So that the collected tax should be use for the development of nation.

If everyone is paying taxes in crypto then i think crypto is not yet decentralized anymore and with the help of all kinds of regulation that the government are implying. Then we have to face the new face of centralized cryptocurrencies but above all most of the countries are not yet ready for this kind of situation and some are avoiding it at all cost for some reason.

Cryptocurrencies wont really come to a point that it would become centralized.They might able to be stopped or regulated by means of exchangers but not totally coming to a point that government can able to control how the funds circulates. Unless if they do create their own centralized coins then its not entirely different from traditional fiat. Taxation when it comes to bitcoin earnings would be always basing or can be seen thru on your transactions being made if you are on an exchanger. Laws of a country which do focus on this one will always look thru exchanges.

well if a new bill is passed normally its effectiveness will be prospective but if a court decision was made to an existing law most likely it should be retrospective or ever since the law is passed.
better to seek tax consultation from tax authority or professional in your place so you can have a clear understanding, ignorance of the law is not an excuse so you should deal seriously with this one.

In depends on the law of the land. In our country when a bill or law has been passed subsequent to the act done( which in your case trading of crypto)  it would have a retro active effect and you would still be taxed.

The anonymous essence of crypto currency complicates the process of taxation. kriptavalyuta contained in electronic purses (exchange or personal), access to which only the owner has. It turns out that it is impossible to determine the real amount of crypto currency in the taxpayer's wallet. Only the announced amount will be drawn. Hence, the authorities will have to believe a man on the floor?

The tax authorities always interpret uncertainty in the legislation in their favor. They will require you to pay tax. Perhaps you will prove your case in court. But the cost of a lawyer can exceed the amount of the required tax. The image of the US as a democratic and free country is very exaggerated. This is not the best country to use cryptocurrencies.

Paying taxes in crypto has nothing to do with the level of centralization, and everyone paying taxes in crypto would not mean the currency is centralized. The two things are completely separate issues, and not even linked in any discernible way. Centralization has to do with control, and it is unequivocally decentralized. If the government accepted tax payments in Bitcoin, it would be no different than a merchant selling products for Bitcoins - just another place to spend it. It speak nothing of centralization.

You're right. This is not centralization but do you have any idea what will happen if the government will sell all the bitcoins they received as tax at the end of the year? You little mt.gox? Do you want the market to be constantly feverish? In addition, in order to take a tax in bitcoins, governments must recognize it as a currency. You believe that?

They won't have to sell any Bitcoins because they will never directly deal with them. Governments partner with payment gateways to have them convert everything to fiat and that's really it. Governments accepting crypto to pay for tax do that solely to lower the bar and make it easier for people to start paying due taxes. It's a major difference when people end up using their in value increased coins to pay due taxes over the fiat they have in their bank accounts. Technically it's the same all the way through, but psychologically it's easier for people to pay $1000 worth of Bitcoin than actually $1000 in fiat. It's a smart move from governments.

Its good sign that the tax should be taken on bitcoin.  Tax proves that it is legal.

The tax does not prove anything. Tax it is only then that you become less of your hard-earned money. Those who earn money dishonestly never pay taxes. Bitcoin will never be recognized by the government. They are satisfied as is. Bitcoin does not compete with Fiat and even supports Fiat because all purchases we make after the exchange. And taxes are easier to control through Fiat. Why would the government change anything?

First of all Bitcoin should be legalization in the country then we mast pay tax for the benefit of the government e.g. for the coustration of bridges and roads.

Because it does not exist online, bitcoin tax can not be paid, I have met some types of tax expert.

It is still an income that you have to declare, so you may have to pay some money.

well i think some countries really do have different style and laws regarding taxation...every now and then they change their laws regarding taxes to gain more taxes from people...pretty clever of them...

Recognized as a currency? I dont think so and its not really necessary for them to made such step just to get some tax to those people who do involve on crypto. A simple recognition would already be enough. This would still depend if they would impose strict compliance but basically they would still end up on tie-ing up themselves on exchangers which are the ones to be regulated for them to able to track it out and get tax but when we do speak about direct pay up i dont even think peopel will be willing to do so.

it becomes a part of the government to regulate the crypto entering their country taking advantage to improve the economy of the country that indirectly protects its citizens from things that are not in want I think this is a very natural thing.

Your response doesn't make sense. If the government is taking in Bitcoins as a tax revenue, why would they "sell" those Bitcoins as opposed to spending them like they do with any other revenue source. If the economy is denominated in Bitcoins, there would be no need to "sell" them, you would just spend them. That would have no affect on Bitcoins if everything is denominated in Bitcoins, it only potentially matters if everything is denominated in dollars, including Bitcoin. But that assumption doesn't make sense because you'd have to assume as a given that everything in the economy is denominated in BTC and the USD has been abandoned in order to even entertain the notion that the government is taking tax revenues in the form of BTC. Your response doesn't even follow the thread of what has being discussed, which was whether paying taxes in BTC has any bearing on centralization of BTC, and then you came in out of left field with a bucket of crazy about feverish markets and Mt. Gox. I have no idea what point you were trying to make, but it didn't come across.

In my opinion, it is too early to talk about taxes until the states recognize and come up with a legislative base for this!

It was really expensive, and they set an independent charge that will be a burden for everyone to reach if they will be requiring to pay those, I guess that's not a good thibg for everyone especially for those who contain small amount of token which is a great deduction if the charge and fees were at high deal, bht who are we to complain we are not allowed to get profit if we dont agree with that.

Bitcoin is not legal and is still difficult to use for local transactions, I think if the government wants taxes, the government must legalize bitcoin, and recognize bitcoin is equivalent to fiat money.

Tax is integral part of government income.  We should pay taxes on bitcoins income. When we start to pay taxes on bitcoins itwill help government to create better life style of local peoples. My suggestions in this we have to pay taxes on bitcoins income

I think you are not wrong, and taxation crypto I think is less precise because if we suffered losses in trade and we are still taxable it will be very detrimental to us users crypto.

I do agree with a lot here, that there is not 1 uniformal right answer for everyone.

what i do understand is that government taxes all incomes, unless they give exemptions that people can apply for.
If crypto-trading is not specifically mentioned, the closest example you could compare it to, is how profits earned through stock trading and forex trading are taxed.

But assuming you don't have to pay, is always a gamble in my opinion.

Taxation is depends upon the government of the country. If you addressed to pay tax for bitcoin means you have to pay. I think still there is no tax announced for bitcoin in any country. If the government forced to pay means then it is good for country's economic growth. For bitcoin transaction we have to pay the transaction fee only not tax.

it is possible that the application of bitcoin tax can not be applied in a country that has not yet acknowledged the currency of cryptocurrency, for example bitcoin owners in Indonesia, they still can not pay transaction taxes, may only be able to pay commodity tax, because in that country bitcoin is considered a commodity and an infestation.