Bitcoin Forum

Because of people that speculated them and used them as commodity. Bitcoin is a currency. Sure, we could it as a commodity in a few years whenaskk and offer ratio will be in the sky, but I believe most of us forgot to use it because of what it is. A good, bank-free method to buy things. And services.

So, as a merchant, I'm waiting the prices to go around $5 (even lower, but lower than $2-3 would be not good) and people start shopping (again).

I don't really care about the prices, I feel sad for people that loose speculating, also fell happy for the one that make some profit.

Actually BTC prices are going down because of speculation. In investing, you only lose money if you sell low, these people don't understand that and say "OH NO, the price dropped $1, let's make a big deal, plummet prices, and speculate it's because of how bitcoin is deflationary, prone to scam and stuff."

I think everyone should tough it out, so to speak, and buy buy buy.

Last time it did that I held onto them and they never came back up.  So I learned to sell early in a freefall and wait to buy later.  But I don't think it will go back up from when it hits bottom at $3.

You clearly don't remember when bitcoins were worth PENNIES. Also, how do you know it never came back up? That investment could be worth a fortune now, just look at Apple (APPL) as of right before Jobs resigned and compare it to stock prices in the 80's.

Bitcoins are not going back up.

this is why it's down... period.  end of discussion.

http://www.flexcoin.com/calc

It's just pure economics.. nothing more.  nothing less.

So you think the experiment has failed, and Bitcoin will never gain further use as a currency?

That's fine, if you say that bitcoins are no longer an effective investment. I'll just take all of your coins, so you don't even have to try and liquidate them.


See you're not going to do that, because you are going to wait for coins to go up (even if slightly) before you sell. You have faith in the system.

No he has faith in the not so smart people who think it's going to go back up to 10 or 12 and will buy in, only to be caught holding the bag when it continues its long slow slide into obscurity. 

Playing with numbers in your form someone can get impression, that if new money doesn't come to bitcoin economy, then bitcoin would drop to 0. But it is not true. If new value doesn't come and the value doesn't leave the system, then it will just inflate slowly until it reaches some minimum (which is much greater than 0). And then it will deflate since some bitcoins are being lost everyday.

Well, so you are saying that the market, while having a strong community can just vanish out of thin air for no reason? We are all still sitting here, and so are the big guys with large fortunes of BTC. How can all of that money just disappear?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAKsMnAM8vk

Most of it has been spent on electricity and hardware.

Riight, and then, when the price is high again, the miners can dump more bitcoin and the price will drop again.
 8)

By dumping into the market, people will buy it, and then spend it on hardware, and then... THAT'S HOW A CURRENCY WORKS.

As for the poof! video, the bitcoins are sitting somewhere, waiting to be bought. That means there is potential money in the system.

mmmm I smell copypasta.

"This number is the absolute fact of what is needed to be added to the bitcoin community in order to keep prices stable. This number can be a mixture of dollars, yen, euros, gold, silver or whatever currency of choice. It can also be the dollar value of services and products being bought for bitcoins (not just offered) but the total dollar figure MUST equal the amount listed above."

I know its a fact that 216,000 new bitcoins are minted each month, but I dont see that it necessarily correlates with the price. You are assuming that 216,000 new bitcoins are being sold each month. If a miner is minting these coins and simply holding them because he believes they will be worth more in the future, then they would not in any way effect the current exchange rate. I do not know how many miners are holding their coins for the future, and how many miners are dumping their coins on the exchanges.

I think it's just overpriced.  I wrote this on another thread and I think it sums it up: Mining needs to be a literal loss of money after electricity so all those people mining for profit stop and the only miners are people who find it too burdensome to buy bitcoins--this way it helps by getting lots of new buyers of bitcoin related goods.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=41886.0

If he mines them and holds them, he is effectively buying then since there are costs to acquiring and he is passing up the opportunity to sell them.

Thanks for the information, I didn't know that.

An item is only valuable for trading purposes if someone else is willing to accept it in exchange for something else.  You could have a million bitcoins, and if no one wants them, they are worthless, period.

I want to be able to buy 1000 bitcoins with a few dollars.  Then I'd buy a million and all those people who scoffed at bitcoins I'd offer to send the coins to them.  Problem is at 6.75, it is so overpriced so it's not worth buying.

You want to buy below market value? Everyone would want that. Not going to happen.

Do you know how many people would buy in big at 1$? Many. Something really bad has to happen or maybe a really long time at 50 BTC mining incentive has to pass for that to happen. We only have roughly 1.5 years left with 50 BTC incentive, keep that in mind when saying "overpriced"... the market value includes future expectations.

If the same number of people on facebook (700 million) end up holding $25 worth of bitcoins each, the market cap would be $17.5 billion. That pegs bitcoins at $1750 per bitcoin if 10mil bitcoins were in circulation.

Yes, and if my aunt had a pair of bollocks she'd be my uncle. Do you really see a future in which bitcoins are as ubiquitous as facebook?

I think bitcoins are MUCH cooler then facebook.

So far not everyone thinks that otherwise prices would be much higher than $7, but I have to agree because facebook is crap.

The masses tend to like it when the price is going up, and hate it when the price is going down.

hahaha

You also have to realize that the majority of Facebook users have no idea what fiat money is... and why it should be avoided like the plague.

Every time I start thinking about the implications of a currency that government can't forcibly tax, I get shivers. Could we actually be headed toward an era where people VOLUNTARILY contribute to the government? ...The way "freedom" is supposed to be?? I mean, sure, it would be preceded by a short, terrible era of government collapse, but I'll gladly endure that for the true freedom that awaits on the other side... and yes, I will voluntarily contribute.

-Jix

And ironically, many more facebook users are converting much more fiat money into virtual facebook credits every day already than bitcoin users will ever convert into bitcoins. So those ignorant facebookusers are already doing a better job at the "avoing like the plague" than you are...

Haha, you make a decent point about FB Credits. I'm not sure if I would call that a "currency" more than a voucher system. You can't convert credits back into USD.

As for them doing a better job at dumping fiat money, what can I say? Maybe there should be a Stupid Virtual Trinket store where you can only use Bitcoins. Someone needs to come up with a Farmville-type game where you can only buy more tractor fuel (or equivalent) with Bitcoin... I think you may've started something, The_Duke...

Isn't that game called MtGox?

What are you waiting for? E-mail the fine folks at MtGox, suggest they create a Facebook portal, and start accepting FB Credits...

Let's see where this goes...

You calculate the current price per coin divided by the generation rate, then assume that no one has projected expectations, all miners immediately sell 100% of their production. Can you tell me at what rate, historically miners sold as a function of market volume, difficulty, or some other variables? Oh, you can't?

Pure economics. I'm glad you don't run a financial institution. Oh, you do, do you? Well, isn't that cute.

EDIT: I just read the first paragraph on your site. Do you use bitcoins? Surely you realize that your front page blatantly misrepresents the technology.

BTC is down because of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjV3wdXDHDk&feature=player_embedded

...the DOW is tanking.

HAHAHAHA

I agree, hang in there, buy buy buy....