Bitcoin Forum

This idea came out of a post in another thread here, and I would like to put it to members as a formal suggestion.

Fit to Talk has a board where foreign language members can submit a post about Bitcoin or crypto, and we suggest improvements to the language structure. I think that these edited posts by new members may be of interest to other newbies on the beginners board. I would like to run a thread on that board where the member can post the edited text. The thread would be self-moderated by me, and only posts that have been approved by FtT mods would be allowed. The FtT mods are senior members here, and are active supporters of Bitcoin Talk. Only posts by newbies and juniors would be allowed.

Here is a sample post by a junior member here who has not received any merit. I believe that these posts, although they are basic, help the newer members to understand the world of crypto.
https://fittotalk.com/english-talk/index.php?topic=14.0

Do you think that a thread such as this would be of benefit to the beginners board?

The harsh truth is the majority of users on this forum will never rank up.  I've seen some really great posters that still have yet to receive any merit.  Many high levels basically have the attitude " fuck you I got mine" , then a lot of high rankers just trade merit back and forth.

Feels like it would be a mostly-wasted effort since a lot of spammers and individuals with low English coherence will completely disregard the thread and jump straight into bounties/campaigns.

However, that tiny 0.001% of users will benefit from it and I don't see the harm in doing so. Just don't expect any significant results on a macro scale.

I would agree with this, but I don't think Jet Cash is aiming to fix the forum here. This would benefit the small number of newbies that are genuinely trying to learn about crypto, contribute to the forum and better their English skills.

Presumably the thread would be in the Beginners' board?

Says a marinecoin shill (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4099929.msg38092437#msg38092437).

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Like actmyname said,it won't work out that well,but you can try helping those who want help. Although,,bill tried to review posters without any incentive,he didn't get much attention due to lack of any incentive  :-\ . Have a look: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3771870.msg37146114#msg37146114

Having a signature is not the same as being an endless shitposter. The fact that you don't understand the difference only proves the point further.

I made a post here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4052999.0) explaining a bit about how to better formulate English sentences to a noob that looked like he was trying..

Actually I think the thread was in beginners and help when I started making my reply, which I thought was good, but by time I finished my reply I think it was moved to meta, which kinda made the thread inappropriate, and bashing ensued..  

Jetcash - I saw your forum posted in another thread and had a look..
Does a person really have to PM you to sign up?

I noticed that I had left that in the news bit earlier today. I must change it. You can register in the normal way, but you have to use your Bitcoin Talk name - this is to make it easy for mods here to check for plagiarism if there is any cross posting. I approve the application, and you have to confirm it by email link.

With regard to the beginners thread. I am concerned about the bounty spammers, and that is why I wanted to make it self-moderating. If a mod will help me, a better idea would be for me to close the thread, and the mod could move an approved post into the thread by request. The request would come from one of the three of us who are modding FtT. I could make a delete and post to bump the thread every couple of days while the community thought it was worth keeping alive.

Chipmixer "shills" don't break rules like you and say bullshit like you marinecoin shills do. Chipmixer "shills" at least try to make this forum a better place unlike you marinecoin shills who just shitpost everywhere for a few pennies.

My point is that majority of the shitposters won't rank up because they don't know what to post or say other than just combining random words to make a sentence. Shitposters like you'll never rank up if you remain being shills and keep posting unwanted noise.

I ask this sincerely:  Can you list some of these members who should be earning merit but haven't?  I'll be happy to take a look at their profiles and perhaps give them a merit or two if I get any to give.

And yeah, members of a higher rank don't care as much about merit, but that's pretty much by design, no?  It wouldn't bother me at all if I never earned any merits, but people keep giving them to me and I am doing my best to pay them forward.  It's damn hard to find low-ranked members making really good posts.  There probably should be an "under-merited members" thread--if there is one, I have yet to see it.

There are several threads for un-merited posts, but, as you said, I don't remember seeing one for the members making them. It would be quite difficult to use though, especially where the member is a non-native English speaker. I don't want to help the spamming bounty hunters - I just hope that they will go away. I would like to encourage the New and Junior members who have come to this forum to learn about Bitcoin and crypto.

I'd like to start the initiative that is being discussed in this thread, and this is to help foreign language speakers to become part of the international English speaking community here. In addition, I believe that such a thread might improve the perceived quality of the beginner's board

I agree that the suggested thread should be on the beginners board, but why do you believe that a discuaaion about it should be there. We are discussing cross-site issues, the promotion of posts and members in the local language boards, issues of potential plagiarism as a result of post translation, and a suggested minor change in the philosopy of some merit awarders. There is also a possible need for the involvment of a mod to keep the thread clean from new members like you, who appear to give their priorities to air drops and bounties.

May I suggest that if you can't make meaningful contributions, you stay out of the big boy threads. btw, I put you on ignore.

They are ranking up. You are just a misinformed person who has not been visiting the forum to search for topics to read because you are busy hunting for merits.[1]

Can you give us some examples? I would like to know who these people are and why you are even endorsing them get merited. (Quick Guess: Farmed accounts?)

Keep up with this type of attitude for yourself and you are sure to go into ignore lists. You are hitting the axe on your own foot. As fro merit traders I am repeating what I have said the nth time - report them and they will get negged.

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[1] Merits are not animals which you can hunt by the way.

I have seen and read so many threads here suggesting on the improvement of the forum system yet other members are trolls who were usually got ideas on negativeness on their sides. Well we could not improve if all the trolls here would comment down and will let the sender feels down on the very moment of his courage to improve the forum system. So sad that trolls had a lot time time on finding some errors on the likes of this post which is aiming to develop oneself.

I'm reminded of the parable of the starfish thrower - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star_Thrower

The modern adaptation tells of the old man seen throwing beached starfish back into the ocean. On being told that he would not make any difference to the world because there are so many beached starfish, after throwing another starfish into the ocean, he replied " It has made a difference to him ".

If I can help a beginner starfish into the Bitcoin ocean, then the thread will have served its purpose.

Is the Fit to talk user here in the forum? For he absolutely can post it on the Begginers&help board, it is very informative.
I think he should be the one posting it as well as the link to his blog, from the post is coming. Also, all the Fit To Talk users might tell the whole history of the thread, I mean, if they come from some sort of corrections in Fit to Talk, I believe they should talk about it.

For instance, the user makes the thread starting with:
"This post has been corrected by the Fit To talk project users in order to make it more comprehensible and well-written. If you want to join the project (the link)"
And, after that, he can copy his/her own post.

I don't think it can be seen as scamming, for the Fit To Talk project has no money involved, but the will of helping others to improve their skills and to use them in here, so we can put a small seed in here, perhaps, and those truly interested in creating some good stuff will know where to go to learn more about the English grammar and so.

That's probably a good idea to avoid the plagiarism accusations. I think it would be cumbersome to includeit in every post though. The initial post should cover it. I wanted to allow the concept originator to make the post, and that way other members could award merit or not as they see fit. It would give new and junior members a chance to get a bit of exposure on the international boards.

btw I've added the Colosseum to the Spanish Main section. This is for posts in Latin and Italian. I've included Latin as the ASIC mining manufacturers' influence is known as 'The Roman Emperor problem'. Also, the original 'bit coins' may have been the coins with teeth marks from Roman users checking that they had been manufactured from soft precious metals. :)

Yes, as mentioned by @Jet Cash
This is upon registering in FtT.


A good idea and if that post that is corrected by FtT got a few merits, and other low ranking members will see the link to that site, it will pique their interest and will probably sign up in that forum as well.

Come on man, this is pretty harsh.
There are members ranking up, sure, but look at how many members have made it from newbie to full member since the introduction of merit. There's a thread about 0-100 merit-ers and the list is like 5 (maybe 10 i cant remember) [I'm very far off my 100 mark and post reasonably regularly]. A hell of a lot more people than 10 have signed up since the introduction of merit so Jets statement strikes me as entirely valid. (also look at this dudes other threads, a claim they are merit hunting is pretty misleading, more like on a (possibly extreme) rampage to remove shitposters).

There was no endorsement for any person, so how would you know who to merit (if the purpose was to get farm accounts merited)?

Agree with final part, dont discriminate based on rank.

As for OP idea, I think its novel and would help but as most have said its drop in the pond help. That said if everyone comes up with a drop in the pond solution that would solve the issue wouldnt it.
 

Life is harsh. Learn to accept it and adapt diplomatically.

Rank does not stop people from posting and engaging in conversations. Except the newbie jail - which can be removed by paying for copper membership you dont have posting restrictions which are going to hurt - except the shitposter and shillbumpers.

Posting regularly has nothing to do with being merited. If people dont find your posts "Informative" or of quality then there is nothing you can do about it.

I am sure 90% of them are the account farmers who got tagged and are now starting anew. As far as JC's statements are concerned, I never spoke against them.

Why are you even interested? ::)

So what is the general consensus - am I going to do this, or not?

I'd start a poll, but I don't know if I should call it a 'sondaggio' or an 'encuesta'  :)

I've just merited this post in the Spanish section. I know it's a topic that has been asked before, but it could start an interesting thread in the beginners section. Anyway, I think it would be more useful than the rubbish that is on there at the moment.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2489144.0

Do it. No negatives.* All positives.

OK

Here is the problem. I want to avoid any spam posts, and all the work involved in deleting them. I can make the thread self-moderating, and lock it after a post, that's no problem. The difficulty is in adding the promoted post, and that should be attributed to the member who made it. I can work with the member to open a window for posting, or I can request a mod to move the post into the thread. Is there a mod who can/will help with this. Bumping isn't a problem, as I can make  bump post, and delete the previous one, and then lock the thread again.

There are possibly three of us who may be involved in this, and I am the lowest ranking member.

I've been looking at the beginners board, and I think it may not be the best place for the main post showcase. It will require a fair bit of moderation and promotion, and there may be a better solution. I propose that the new member makes his post in the beginners forum in the normal fashion, and the post takes its chance in the general ruckus. I will start a thread in serious discussion or Ivory Tower ( which do you think would be the best ? ), and I will quote the post from the beginners board in full. Any merits to be awarded can go to the original poster on the beginners board. My listing thread will be self moderated, and will only contain the quoted posts, apart from an introductory post by me,

I think this is a cleaner and simpler option, and it still allows a good foreign language poster to make an English language post on the international boards. It also gives the better new members a chance to pick up a few merits as a reward for quality posting.

Good idea.
I am looking forward to become a member.

So far NO merits  :(

And what is the best way to get merit in your opinion?

Read the many threads about it.
Don't make posts that just ask questions that have already been answered.
Make quality posts with topics other than merit, bounties and ICOs.

This is a good solution, and the best of both worlds. It allows the user to post normally, and (potentially) generate an organic discussion from the post, whilst also giving us a way to quickly find (potentially) meritable posts from newbies without having to trawl through the cesspit that is the Beginners' board.

Thanks for your support, and that of everybody else who has helped me to modify my original crude ideas.

I'm going to use the Ivory Tower for the reference thread, and make it self-moderating. I won't make any bump posts, and I would remind members that if they are interested in following the topic, they can add the thread to their watch list.

I'll add the master thread to the Ivory Tower now.

Well, given the concern from senior members regarding good newcomers and how to find them, maybe this is a matter for the Meta section because it is part of a "forum issue". Of course, a self-moderated post is obligatory to stop all this begging newbies and shitposters in general.
Besides, Meta has been used for issues about scam accusations, merit abuse and misuses in general. Maybe this is time to use the meta as a way of finding good posters too, so we all can see it and give them some merits.
Also, I think this maybe should be a sticked post in some section, (Meta, under my opinion, should be the best, for, again, this concern the functionality of the forum, but maybe a sticked one and self-moderated in the Begginers&help board can work as well).
The problem I see with the Ivory Tower idea is it getting kind of messy, for it will provoke repeated posts and can be confusing for some newbies, unable to reach the Ivory Tower. Anyway, since you already have created the post in the Ivory Tower, let's wait and see, it is an experiment and probably will take some time.

Let's take a breath and wait for others to express themselves. I believe we are many users preoccupied in making the forum a better place.

Thanks for your reply.

It seems that Meta is not the board for discussion about my projects. The thread that I started to discuss the structure that I have built up in an attempt to help the forum was moved to reputation. This pissed me off big time. I don't have a paid signature, and I don't trade in the forum, so reputation is not my primary concern here. I have real problems in trying to understand this move, as I can't see a new Spanish member ( for example), going to reputation and hunting through several pages in an attempt to find a thread providing posting advice.

As a result of this thread move, I have decided that I will no longer be proactive in promoting these sites here. I have spent a considerable amount of time, and a small amount of my own money, in an attempt to improve the quality of posting in the forum. I get no payment for this, and i do not want to enter into a battle with the administration over it. I will continue to provide the facilities at my expense, and I will support the projects reactively.

I appreciate the support that I have received from several senior members here, and I hope that they will continue to look favourably on the projects. I am also appreciative of the new members who have joined the Fit to Talk project, and I won't let them down if they continue to make posts for discussion and translation.

I will keep the chat room that i created for merit sources and other seniors open, and I will be happy to discuss any changes or enhancements in the blab room.

I think you are being too hard on yourself here.

The thread that was moved to reputation, althought I understand was meant to be focused on all the projects you have started, was perhaps worded incorrectly to fit in the meta section:


I'd be hopeful that a new thread, worded slightly differently to focus more on your projects, would stay within the meta section. Your projects make the forum a better place, and we would all be worse off without them.

Thanks for your support.

It was unfortunate that I was interupted before I could complete that post, and it had been my intention to return to it.

I started the thread because there seemed to be a lot of speculation and comment about my activities. I still believe that moving the thread into the reputation backwater was unhelpful. It follows on from a number of other such incidents, such as the moving of my topic about a hardware problem related to running a full Bitcoin node. That was moved to off topic, and I had to take the query to another forum for discussion. It wasn't helped by the arrest and imprisonment of Tommy Robinson in the UK, and this has made me take a very hard line over censorship.

I'm creating a Talk Merit projects page at the moment, and I'll post a link to that later. That may be the easiest solution to avoid these problems in the future.

I've changed the character of this project, and I hope to upgrade the quality of the posts as a result. I'm guaranteeing a minimum of 5 merits for posts that are accepted after editing. Because of this, I will impose stricter quality standards. Topics that fall short of the Ivory Tower standards may be eligible for posting elsewhere, but with a smaller merit award.

I have written a preliminary outline of the concept on this page. Please let me know what you think of the new ideas.

http://talkmerit.com/projects/ivory-tower-project.html

I'll include this page as well - it's a prelim for the projects index.

http://talkmerit.com/projects/

Seems great to me. This is going to require a lot of effort from the users involved and the reward is fair enough.
As you are suggesting members from other languages be welcomed, maybe this same text in Spanish and Italian can be useful.

Be patient. This is a great initiative, a great idea, and it will take time. If you want me to spread the rules in the Spanish board, just say the word.

Lets see what the general opinion is about this. The participating member could have two posts/threads attributed to him, and these could attract merit from other awarders, so the potential is greater than the 5 I am offering for an Ivory post. As a merit source, I am able to support several submitted posts, and ensure that they will receive the merits. The posts will have to be of a fairly high standard to be accepted though.

Agree. And what about the thematic? Maybe we can propose in the Fit to Talk project "the topic of the week", in which a thematic is proposed and we encourage people to research and build a great thread about this proposed one.
The winner one will be on the Ivory and also will receive some prices in the Fit To Talk project.

Mate, I was genuinely eager to read the post in the Ivory Tower thread after it popped up on my watchlist just there. Imagine my disappointment.

It's disappointing in general that you would put so much time, effort and money in to providing a project such as this, and newbies would still rather just shitpost and create the n^th hundred thread complaining about the merit system.

Unfortunately I don't have any bright ideas on how to change this pattern.

Give these people some useless tokens they will start spamming on the FtT project LOL
We humans are actually too much attracted to financial gains.
No one cares about personal development.

I'm sorry about that, but I wanted to see if I could kick start it. and maybe your post will help. I'm already guaranteeing 5 merits, and the possibility of more from other merit awarders, so I'm not sure that I want to offer more as an incentive. I toyed with the idea of making a sample post myself, and topics I considered were -
- The failing Venezuelan oil industry following the seizure of the State oil company's assets in Cuba. This was as a result of a debt default.
- The ex-IMF prime minister forced on the Italian people as a punishment for supporting 'populism'
- The way key loggers hijack interrupt handlers to harvest keyboard activity.

I decided not to as my two political topics would be rehashes of various Internet videos and postings, and I'm probably about 30 years out of date with my knowledge of interrupt handlers. I could write an article on the path to Brexit, and start the story with the decimation of the railway network under Dr Beeching in the 1960s. That could be a bit long though.