Bitcoin Forum

This is not a advertising thread, I would just like to make those who are new to bitcoins and mining rig assembly aware there there are many places to purchase extender cables from.

when purchasing pci-e extenders, make sure you are getting the BEST price.

here is a list of places to check

http://tinyurl.com/3zyk4sy (http://tinyurl.com/3zyk4sy) pci-e x1 currently an auction but free S&H

http://tinyurl.com/3t9jmwp (http://tinyurl.com/3t9jmwp) $9.00 for 2 pci-e x16 extenders Free S&H

Please read, this should be considered a good example of how some people that do not like it when you state the obvious react, they Lock the topic  and Move the topic to
Bitcoin Forum > Other > Archival > Obsolete (selling) > Locked

http://tinyurl.com/3qmuj34 (http://tinyurl.com/3qmuj34) to me any time someone's valid opinion is essentially censored should be regarded as a red flag thus implying more research into the matter.

more details



Then there is also just using google shopping for additional sellers

http://tinyurl.com/44afbp6 (http://tinyurl.com/44afbp6) I also included the Free shipping option to refine the results even further.

Don't forget to check the qty included ie 2 for $9.00 = 4.50 EACH and not ~$14-25 for 1 like some places.



** topic title edited

PCI-E 1X Riser PCI-Express Card Extender Cable Adapter

http://tinyurl.com/3b9uplr

$7.00 + free S&H

Little pricey but still cheaper then some dealers in this forum.

Ordered one of these:

http://www.camera2000.com/en/pci-e-pcie-pci-express-1x-to-16x-riser-card-for-1u-2u-chassis.html

Will update when it arrives ;)

Most of my risers I just paid a few bucks each for on ebay. I did however buy a $25 riser with molex from cablesaurus. It works great, and the shipping was fast, but $25 is still a complete ripoff.

Good post. I'd been having a bit of trouble figuring out how to phrase a search for these...

But in looking through the linked items, all I see is crap, crap, crap! These risers are obviously designed by people with zero knowledge of exactly what signals are being passed through those lines, and what sort of cabling arrangement needs to be done with them to "extend" them without signal degradation/errors. Every line is just passed through straight-across with no consideration of power, signal, crosstalk, etc...

PCIe is an internal interface, meaning it's not designed to go anywhere except where the mainboard had already positioned it. So in order for you to extend or move it, you should consider how to negate your "moving the slot", electrically - that is, how to make it appear to the computer like everything's normal. You set up twisted signal pairs, thicker/grouped power trunks, etc.

That may be why some risers are more expensive - they're actually designed, not merely manufactured. They won't give people undue amounts of headache ("OMG Y WONT MY MINER WORK!!1", "STUPAT PROGRAM CRASHES MY COMPUZER WHEN I OPEN IT!"), and they'll actually... you know... work. BUT, on the other hand, there are likely to be places selling these risers for big "enterprise" setups that can get away with charging $300 for a 140gb hard drive (I'm an IT guy - shit like that flies like an F-16 around here, it's just sad). Those places are to be avoided like the devil. Honestly, I'd rather pay $15 for a piece-of-crap Chinese-designed straight-through-cabled riser, than $40 for an overpriced "server class" board and proper twisted cable. That's just exploitation right there ;)

Of course, what I'm looking for is a board that splits a single 16x slot into 16 PCIe 1x slots that fit 16x cards (or maybe 4 4x slots, or 8 2x slots, etc). We already know that 16x cards work just happy at 1x, and that could really help a lot of people looking to use a cheap Atom-based MicroATX board as a PC, dramatically reducing power consumption and improving efficiency. All I seem to find are extenders for existing slots, but no "breakout" boards to split up existing slots into multiple slots (which is entirely possible, from an electrical/logical point of view). I've only seen one setup: http://www.amfeltec.com/products/x4pcie-splitter4.php
... but it's not for sale, only bulk orders, and isn't exactly what I had in mind (x4 to 4x x1). Otherwise it'd be pretty nice.

arg... on first read through I found this very frustrating, second, third and fourth reading makes a lot more sense. Yes you certainly are correct about those items, but and most importantly, they work. I'm running 9 of them right now and I'm sure plenty of others have great success with them, my protest is the absurd mark up a certain seller is placing on these items. I myself am quite certain that this particular dealer ( we all know who ) is selling those exact items  w/ ridiculous markup, not to mention the ~$15 solder job... So all in all I've come to the conclusion that the only reason this dealer ( you know who-asurus ) is getting away with this crazy price structuring is b/c people ( noobs ) are having trouble finding them. Oh and btw I'm an "IT guy" irl also, but on teh interwebs I'm also a doctor, lawyer, astronaut and professional of what ever occupation that suits the current forum / topic I'm currently perusing in order to sound most right.

oh and one another note, who really gives a damn as how great his customer service is, he's not telling you anything you cant find on your own

boycott-asurus

Wow... I... actually didn't even know about this asurus guy before that post. o.o

Well, I guess if it works, it works... I just figured I should note a few potential problems with cutting corners.

Read my first post.


I don't want to come off as too bias so here he is

http://www.cablesaurus.com/

its just over price re-branded junk from china, granted I'm sure its functional, but everyone who's paying his retarded prices, is well... retarded.....


Also, having a market place seller ie cablesaurus ALSO being a mod / sr.member / admin seems to scream conflict of interest. For instance if I were to purchase a bunch of extenders and simply resell them here he could simply delete all my posts and/or claim shenanigans!!To be honest after he relocated my post on his topic as to not effect sales ( his resales ) I'm quite shocked this thread is still here.   

I do believe that it should be made clear that if you're selling items routinely ( use Cablesaurus as and example ) you should have no Mod privileges AT ALL in order to promote a help open and FAIR market place.

Thanks for the links, they will be usefull.
Any news on cheap pci - pci-e converter? All the ones i saw are expensiver than cablesaurus!

What makes you think Cablesaurus has Mod/Admin privileges?

i got 2 PCI-PCI-e converters from ebay, i had issues with win7 enabling the device within my mining rig (asrock X58 extreme with 4 6950 and 1 5670 getting 1.6 GH/s),
however on boot the converter worked fine on a second mobo with the 4870 plugged into it, i still need to do more investigation, but i don't want to disturb my miners!

Arrived today :D

Looks pretty good in the bag, will see how it works in the box ;)

I was able to just cut the ends of the pci-e 1x slots off on my mobo. Video card fit right in and I have 4 running on the board...  8)

Could you share who was the salesman? 40 bucks for one isn't for me :(

Wait, are people buying PCI-e 1x to 16x adapters so they can plug in their 6990's into their PCI 1x slots? How well does that work, lol?

If you're sending tiny hashes back and forth, you don't really need all that much bandwith.

Are the PCI-X to PCI-E 16x riser boards that I see from time to time on eBay compatible in all server motherboards with PCI-X slots?

Looking at the cable I just got it looks like that would work just as well ;)

I've been purchasing stuff on the internet for well over 11 years. I was in on PayPal when they were still offering $10 for new accounts. I know the alternatives.

However, I have read enough threads of people having problems with extenders that paying an extra 110% for cablesaurus's seemed like a reasonable deal. One person even purchased an extender that was soldered on backwards. Backwards! Paying $5 extra to ensure my $250 card does not let out the black genie was a no brainer.

Would you ever plug you card in to a slot that forced you to install your card completely backwards. I mean come on, that's just ridiculous, what ever tard did that deserves to have the " black genie " come pay him a visit. Also, if you cant brush your teeth with out stabbing yourself in the ear you should probably just stick to mouth wash..... Oh and welcome to the internet!!!  mr.I've been buying stuff off the internets for 11 years, its nice to finale have you here we've missed you. Anyone else want to brag about how long they've been buying stuff of the internet via time oriented comparison? I was buying stuff off the internet since www.cyberslots.net was considered a highly addictive gambling site.

Plugged in and churning away. Turns out it's about 2" short of making the card mount nicely on a side card mount in the case so I'm running it open right now.

Going to order a PCI-e x1 extender to make it fit better. Will have to reconfigure some fans but then I will have managed to squeeze every last drop of hashing out of this particular box... for now ;)

Supply and demand?

supply and demand would only justify his pricing IF there were a LIMITED supply, which is clearly not the case.

actually supply and demand is a factor...
demand is low... primarily it is only used by miners.
supply is also low... each molex connector is soldered on by hand which raises cost.
then it boils down to how much do want to gain in profit, how much time does it take to add a molex connector.

i add my molex connectors differently so it takes me at least 1/2 hour just to do 1 cable.
if i were to sell them i would be charging a lot more since i think my time is worth a lot.
but i don't sell them... I think I'm rambling now.

Raiser 1X can be purchaser for less than U$s4 on Dealextreme!!! Check Out!!!

I figured that it was well known that demand was also very limited hence not worth mentioning, I should have made it more clear. There is also VERY little demand and a very little limit to his supply.

Also, 1/2 hr?? geez care to post a pic of what you're doing that merits a half hour?? Each once runs me ~6 minutes.

Unfortunately the ones i have are in machines.
have to make some this weekend however... but this is what i do
i carefully cut the ribbon down where the 12V lines are on both sides (A2 & A3, B1, B2 & B3)
then i cut them away from the base of the card edge... and strip the wire ends.
solder a 16 gauge wire to it and connect the other end to a molex connector.

this completely isolates the 12V away from the motherboard and no power is pulled from the motherboard.
hard part is leaving the A1 wire (PRSNT1#) intact and not get it damaged or cut.
i have cut it once by accident and had to fix the wire.

This thread is very helpful. I previously bought from cablesaurus for my dedicated mining rig and thought it was a little pricey, but it worked, so I soon forgot. Now that prices are so low I'm pinching pennies. Still, I'd like to add 2 5870s to a 2u server I've got running for other purposes. Call me stupid for throwing $ at a mining rig, but I'm an ardent believer in Bitcoins.

Adequate power to the cards and the mobo is not an issue, but connecting the cards is. The Mobo has 2 8xPCI-e connectors (http://www.supermicro.com/Aplus/motherboard/Opteron2000/MCP55/H8DM3-2.cfm)

So I'm thing that 2 of these 8x to 16x cable 'adapters' would do the trick: http://www.9mart.com/products/2-Lots-PCI%252dExpress-Extension-Cable-8x-To-16x-Riser-Card-For-1U%7B47%7D2U.html

Thanks, and any advice from hardened miners is very welcome. Gotta watch those Btc lately!

Seems like there will be a lot of unnecessary components which would be powered up ( idling ) which is a waste of energy.

Thats the same way I made a few of my previous ones but I really hated that free floating A1


So here is my solution

http://tinyurl.com/4xu7tnq

http://tinyurl.com/3k72u3m



but not cutting any of the wires the riser is no longer required to use additional molexs ( 12V+'s ) except when its required.
The current draw will always take the path of least resistance - http://tinyurl.com/aynwg (http://tinyurl.com/aynwg) http://tinyurl.com/aynwg (http://tinyurl.com/aynwg)


The molex plug is rigidly attached resulting in less flexing of the ribbons ( more importantly the solder joints which have no strain reliefs )

No more of this Zip Tie BS

http://image.bayimg.com/fakfhaadh.jpg


Assembly time is now ~2 minutes ( assuming I have to wait for the soldering iron / rework station to heat up. )


This is an extra btw if anyone wants it

3.25 BTC  gets it to you w/ FREE S&H to the lower 48 via USPS

http://tinyurl.com/4xu7tnq

http://tinyurl.com/3k72u3m

2 issues i see
1) your not connecting up all the 12V lines. there are total of 5. so it may still pull power from the motherboard.
2) path of least resistance...  between getting power from motherboard or from the molex connector the difference in resistance is very small.
possibly measurable in milliohms. so it may still pull power from the motherboard.

I'm no electronics technician so i can't say for sure.

but i do know that hen i physically cut the ribbon wire and plug the 12v wires into a molex connector i am for sure not drawing any power from the motherboard.

Did I ever say I wanted to prevent power from being draw from the mother board?? Nope, didn't. You're living in a ridiculously paranoid world if you're worried about drawing any power through the mother board, its just plan silly to avoid it entirely, and you gain absolutely nothing from avoiding it, need I repeat, NOTHING. The PCI slots are designed to provided power for pci cards, so if you create additional pathways for current to flow then you will lower the amount traveling on each pathway, thus in turn increasing to total amount of current able to be drawn w/o damaging components ( traces and wires ); its really a pretty basic concept, re-read the  articles I posted, 
http://tinyurl.com/aynwg (http://tinyurl.com/aynwg) 
http://tinyurl.com/5s5llfo (http://tinyurl.com/5s5llfo)

have you ever check these pins A2 & A3, B1, B2 & B3 for continuity ?? They are all connected on the cards PCB - all the the same copper pad.  I can assure you that by isolating those 5 wires and detaching them from the riser / mobo entirely and reducing them to 1 - 16awg wire you are in fact decreasing the amount of current carrying capacity. You would be so much better off just leaving them connected to riser and the mother board and just have an additional 12v molex at your disposal. All Wires can be though of as resistors, b/c they all have some inherent amount of resistance.


Resistors in Parallel

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Resistorsparallel.png

In a parallel circuit, current is divided among multiple paths. This means that two resistors in parallel have a lower equivalent resistance than either of the parallel resistors, since both resistors allow current to pass. Two resistors in parallel will be equivalent to a resistor that is twice as wide:

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikibooks/en/math/3/7/6/3760f431a4d755d2181151b4046d80a7.png

Since conductances (the inverse of resistance) add in parallel, you get the following equation:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikibooks/en/math/b/7/d/b7d797059343dbd0d2f8f8d09b06f1c2.png

For example, two 4 O resistors in parallel have an equivalent resistance of only 2 O.

To simplify mathematical equations, resistances in parallel can be represented with two vertical lines "||" (as in geometry). For two resistors the parallel formula simplifies to:

   http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikibooks/en/math/b/2/2/b22693aac2a2de84160944e7f0ee4fec.png



Another useful read

http://tinyurl.com/3u5crbb

"Electrical resistance

Voltage can be thought of as the pressure pushing charges along a conductor, while the electrical resistance of a conductor is a measure of how difficult it is to push the charges along. Using the flow analogy, electrical resistance is similar to friction. For water flowing through a pipe, a long narrow pipe provides more resistance to the flow than does a short fat pipe. The same applies for flowing currents: long thin wires provide more resistance than do short thick wires. "


Also,
 

1) *face palm*

2) Pins B10, A9 & A10 pull power through the mother board, so better pull those too

3) 1 milliohms = .001ohms


In the image below

Red indicates power source

Yellow Line = .3 ohms

Green Line = .3 ohms

Yellow & Green Line = .2 ohms

point - less resistance

http://image.bayimg.com/lakggaadh.jpg

Another thing,

Notice how in this picture all the lines are intact and the molex is just soldered to one side of the board.



http://image.bayimg.com/fakfhaadh.jpg

In any case the additional molex is just there to as a supplemental power inclusion point - not a replacement for all power going to the edge card ( pcie end that is )

Can you confirm that these powered cables are necessary when using 4 or 5 gpus?

That is all dependent on the quality of the motherboard and gpu's power consumption.

Ok. Can you confirm that the card will draw power from the power supply before the motherboard?
Or do we assume that every card draws 75 watts from the mobo 1st?

There is ~375 Ohms between pins A2, A3, B1, B2 & B3 and the 6 pin molex's on the back of the card. Meaning different parts of the card are getting energized in different ways, and the 375 Ohms between A2 & A3, B1, B2 & B3 and the 6 pin molex's is there to prevent part of the card from routing ( drawing ) power through the entire card and damaging other components.

So to answer your question, both get power first while they don't at the same time and the number 42.

I have not personally had any problems, I can confirm that I've read about wires smoking and board sockets melting. I strongly believe that the vast majority of problems related to electrical failures and wire overloads has a lot more to do with poor connections and damaged wires ( internally ). If your card is getting power from a plug that is not making sufficient contact with the psu resistance will increase making that wire hotter thus becoming a worse conductor and the worse the conductor the higher the resistance; a cascading failure.

75W @ 12V = 6.25A



So are you asking why people use the raisers with the additional molex?

Thanks for the replies. I've been trying to figure out if I need to use the molex powered extender cables.

I think I'll try adding cards slowly and see if it's stable before adding another card.

I'd like to save the $, but if it's required then I'll consider using your service  :)

I bought some $2 ebay ones and they have been working with my 5770's no prob
no molex power but they're lower-powered cards