Bitcoin Forum

Anyone interested?

I will trade the BTC/USD exchange rate and seek BTC profit.

I will charge 10% of profits on a high-water mark.  No management fee.  You shouldn't have to pay for an unproven investment.

I'm not a hacker/BTC guru, I am a trader.  I will open an account with Mt. Gox and not transfer a coin out except to addresses which deposited with me and only their deposit + profits.


Exaggerated example trade:
-Customers deposit 1k bitcoins in July
-I think it's a good short, so I sell all their bitcoins into USD -> $15,000
-I think $5 is a good buy, so I trade all their USD into bitcoins -> 3k bitcoins
-Customers want their bitcoin back - I take 10% of their profits: 200 bitcoin; customers receive 2.8k bitcoins


If there's no substantial interest, consider this thread dead.

(Edit - Error in the quick mental math by 100 BTC)

A portfolio of your previous successful trades would be nice. Potential customers also would prefer to see a real name and some real contact information as well. It's a matter of trust.

Consider me interested.

Also you could consider collecting capital through an asset on GLBSE (https://glbse.com/).

Here are all my trades from August.

http://tinyurl.com/3gmqt56

Return on equity 2.5%.

I will keep my identity private.

Thanks for the offer. Good luck.

Because that would be only 2k profilt (3k - 1k), you shouldn't you take only 200 coins?

Orr you can just disappear with 1k bitcoins that your customers 'invested', more than 3x the profit for you and no hassle of watching markets. If you're going to be anonymous don't expect andyone to want to deal with you, considering the past history the community's had.

+1

trust an anon 11 posts who even in his example shows that he'll scam you for an extra 100 Btc on a good day, a so called trader who can't do simple maths - this really can't fail to garner "substantial interest" to invest the example given of 1000 Btc with him lol

"Exaggerated example trade:"  no kidding Bruce

Actually I could be interested in such a service, albeit from someone with an excellent reputation and real name/address.

¿Bruce then maybe?

LOL

maybe S3032?

Yeah you're right it is 200 coins.  Quick sample trade...I had to run out the door so I made a quick post seeing if anyone was interested.

Here's my plan to protect the coins:
1.  It's a Mt. Gox account which will only accept deposits/withdrawals for a few days at the beginning/end of an investment cycle (2-weeks).
2.  Freeze the account deposits/withdrawals during the investment cycle (Will request Mt. Gox to do this)
3.  Only transfer coins to addresses from which they were initially sent.

Any questions?  Any interest?

One question.  How do you expect this to work when you won't even tell your "customers" your real name?  I might as well just loan the bum on the street 100 bucks, I'd stand a better chance of finding him. 

I'll reply in kind - what does a trader's name have to do with his PNL?  I don't want "the internet" knowing me.  I would rather trade in anonymity.

In a scammer's paradise like bitcoin, someone who wants to take your money but stay anonymous is likely to have bad intentions.  Good luck with it though. 

One possible way would be, you using the mtgox mobile app. One can specify the right for get_info, trade, deposit, withdraw, merchant using some checkbox for each smartphone.
So you would have no withdraw right, but you could trade as you think.

Thanks for the flowers :-)
But we would only look into this once we would be registered as an official hedge fund, and we would provide full disclosure and transparency. 

Any time frame on this?
BTW, there should be two quite different models: maximize fiat vs maximize bitcoins.

Yeah I definitely come from the regulated markets / regulated currencies so the constant fear of scam is something I'm not quite used to.


That mobile app is certainly a good idea, I'd need to look into it.  I'd prefer to do it the simple way and in the forum publicly request Magical Tux to lock the account for withdrawing as well as copy and paste an email sent to him requesting the same.  Basically I'd love for the operational risk/back-office functions to be out of my hands as much as possible.


And in terms of building a track-record...I'm considering limiting the max deposit to 10 bitcoin for the first investment cycle or two.


The purpose of this thread is to see if this is worth our time.

EDIT: To "aq":

You are right with your models, I would reframe it: Maximize global purchasing power would be the goal.

In any case, we will wait for a legal decision on bitcoin before taking any further action beyond the technical analysis.

The time-frame is dependent on the size of account I'll be trading.  If I am trading 100 bitcoin I would have no problem scalping for returns.  If I had a 5,000 bitcoin account however I'd target swing-type trades of 3-5 days...it really all depends on the liquidity.

My trading system is fractal, or it can be traded across any liquid timeframe.

My model - Maximize bitcoin.  I want this to be a very strong distinction for investors - I am seeking to maximize your bitcoin, not your fiat wealth.

Certainly, I understand your reticence.  I think it doesn't make sense to create a real/official hedgefund with the purpose of trading an instrument with a market cap less than $1 billion dollars.

Using the mobile app it would already work without MagicalTux doing anything. You have an android phone?
10 bitcoin sounds reasonable. I tempted to try it.

I actually do not have an Android phone.  I didn't need to check my email at stoplights anymore so I got rid of my smartphone.


Yeah so I'm a firm believer in being a steward of little and I understand that trust is earned.

So using currently available things it would work like this:
You need an Android phone/tablet to access my mtgox account with restricted rights (trade only). Having only the trade right you can sell/buy but not withdraw. The Android app is linked with your phone and is activated by a code generated by me after logging in with my yubikey.

I agree.

So my basic problem with this setup is:
-My motivation in this is performance commission - What if I have a successful cycle and participants refuse to pay performance fees.
-I need to know my "account balance" so I can know how to best trade the markets and manage risk
-I don't want to spend the time accessing X number of accounts to enter a trade.  By the time I do that, my average cost could be awful.

Here is my desired setup:
-An account at Mt. Gox which is open to transfers for a day or two every two weeks
-I trade this account and collect a performance fee at the end of two weeks (on a high-water mark...I must make a profit for you or I don't get paid)
-At the end of an investment cycle, you can withdraw or deposit
-I want Magical Tux to freeze the account to transfers during an investment cycle

What do you mean? The mtgoxmobile app is a full featured trading client, it has all the functions of the mtgox website.
You mean once you have multiple clients?

Now we have the risk on the client (my) side. What if you just withdraw the investment, either in the invest phase, or after the trade cycle.

Yeah, basically I have no motivation to get into something that I can't leverage and grow.  If I can only do this for a max of X clients, then I don't think it's worth our time.


This is where I want to work with Magical Tux and the community to get a solution.  The best way I can see is to only allow transfers to addresses which make deposits.  But the fault of this is what if I make a deposit myself and transfer to that address?

In an ideal world I would program in total percent return of the account per investment cycle and at the end of that cycle, no account can withdraw more than their initial balance +/- the percent return of the account times their deposit.

In the real world, I think we are going to have to start small and build trust.  I would love the opportunity to start with a few coins from a few people and begin posting regular profit or loss on these coins.

Great plan.


What we need is just some option that requires both parties to agree to the actual withdraw, no withdraw without it. We have to ask Mark about this.

BTW, I want to be able to observe the whole thing. In other word, I want to be able to log in and watch your trades. Once your business has grown and earned trust, I am sure, you can trade on your own ;). So that could mean you giving my mtgox mobile "watch" access.

I have no qualms with this.  I would be fine giving you watch access.  If this grows, however I am going to have to give results end of day or end of cycle simply to protect the position from other traders (hunting stops, etc.)

+1. I would like a wallet trust system similar to a bank account requiring x of y signatures for other projects I have in mind that would need to have multiple people with access to a bitcoin wallet.

If there is going to be ties with Magical Tux and MtGox, I'll genuinely consider being a customer.

What I want Mt. Gox to do is create something similar to this:


www.currensee.com

-The above is a company which created a "Facebook" of traders with real accounts
-The best of the best are allowed to manage others' money
-The traders keep a 20% performance fee and the company keeps 2% of the profits

Basically Mt. Gox creates a "manager" account type with this stuff programmed in so that I can focus on trading and not this type of thing.

I think the whole system would be doable as a separate website using various mtgox technologies like redeemable codes and account api. But for now it has to be done "within" mtgox because otherwise there would be an issue with trust.

[clearing out this post]

You need some other type identifying people as transactions are public
http://blockexplorer.com/address/1Krw1p1TDdv5hJcCAqCJA54VRyrQNUzZts (http://blockexplorer.com/address/1Krw1p1TDdv5hJcCAqCJA54VRyrQNUzZts)
Now I just wait for some transactions to appear and then I tell you it was me

Interesting, here's a workaround:

-You must tell me before sending BTC.  I will verify time stamps.  If not, I'll be returning BTC to the address it came from.

I think it is easier to just give you a mtgox redeemable code. Once you have redeemed it, you post an acknowledge message here that includes the actual code. That way we produce some public track about the whole thing.
Can you give me some watch access to the account first?

Hold up.  I'm going to delete that previous post...let's wait on this until we can get some feedback from Mt. Gox on how to better do this.

Sure thing, want to post instructions?  I haven't explored how to do that.

Login to mtgox.
Click the account name in the right top corner.
Click on "Application and API access"
There is a box named "Application access"
Select the required rights (at least "get_info")
Click "create key"
Now you have some QR code on the screen.
PM me a screen shot containing the QR code. It would also work using the alphanumeric code, however I don't want to enter such a long thing on the phone.

Sent, but my outbox shows no sent messages.

If you want the message to be copied to your outbox you have to check the checkbox.