Title: How to level playing field in mining> Post by: philipma1957 on May 25, 2018, 04:58:35 PM Not saying we should but how to do it.
Yeah fork fork fork fork = pita How about ideas and proposals ? My newest idea is sell an OS with a license tied to your ip. So lets say my ip is 01.234.567.89 I buy an os that allows me to mine zec and or other alogs Something like ethos does. It is unique has its own number say 123456789 So they are paired 01.234.567.89 with 123456789 And if I am doing zec under 4000 sols = hobby miner so diff is x 4000 to 10000 sols = small miner so diff is 1.5x 10000 to 50000 sols = medium miner so diff is 3.0x 50000 to 250000 sols = large miner so diff is 9.0x over 250,000 sols = unlimited miner so diff is 20.0x It makes the attraction to asic's less since they have a higher difficulty. No forks gpus stay in the game hobby mining is not lost. Feel free to poke a hole at it but it seems like it could work. Any insult to anyone I will delete. So to asic only or gpu only people please be polite. As for FPGA proponents also be polite. Title: Re: How to level playing field in mining> Post by: badfad on May 25, 2018, 05:05:06 PM At first glance I would say that there will be a lot of hobby miners ;D
Title: Re: How to level playing field in mining> Post by: ten9 on May 25, 2018, 05:25:57 PM What is the point of bringing ip into the mix, Os license serial is uniq already and should be enough or am i missing something ?
Title: Re: How to level playing field in mining> Post by: jstefanop on May 25, 2018, 05:32:18 PM Not saying we should but how to do it. Yeah fork fork fork fork = pita How about ideas and proposals ? My newest idea is sell an OS with a license tied to your ip. So lets say my ip is 01.234.567.89 I buy an os that allows me to mine zec and or other alogs Something like ethos does. It is unique has its own number say 123456789 So they are paired 01.234.567.89 with 123456789 And if I am doing zec under 4000 sols = hobby miner so diff is x 4000 to 10000 sols = small miner so diff is 1.5x 10000 to 50000 sols = medium miner so diff is 3.0x 50000 to 250000 sols = large miner so diff is 9.0x over 250,000 sols = unlimited miner so diff is 20.0x It makes the attraction to asic's less since they have a higher difficulty. No forks gpus stay in the game hobby mining is not lost. Feel free to poke a hole at it but it seems like it could work. Any insult to anyone I will delete. So to asic only or gpu only people please be polite. As for FPGA proponents also be polite. Looks good in theory, but this would be nearly impossible to implement since it would need to be done at the blockchain's protocol level. Difficultly is encoded in each block...to have difficulty "assigned" to each miner would not really be possible without some sort of centralized system managing it. Even if it was somehow managed decentralized via a sort of "smart contract" system on top of the protocol layer I could still see ways people could easily abuse this. Title: Re: How to level playing field in mining> Post by: philipma1957 on May 25, 2018, 06:02:08 PM Not saying we should but how to do it. Yeah fork fork fork fork = pita How about ideas and proposals ? My newest idea is sell an OS with a license tied to your ip. So lets say my ip is 01.234.567.89 I buy an os that allows me to mine zec and or other alogs Something like ethos does. It is unique has its own number say 123456789 So they are paired 01.234.567.89 with 123456789 And if I am doing zec under 4000 sols = hobby miner so diff is x 4000 to 10000 sols = small miner so diff is 1.5x 10000 to 50000 sols = medium miner so diff is 3.0x 50000 to 250000 sols = large miner so diff is 9.0x over 250,000 sols = unlimited miner so diff is 20.0x It makes the attraction to asic's less since they have a higher difficulty. No forks gpus stay in the game hobby mining is not lost. Feel free to poke a hole at it but it seems like it could work. Any insult to anyone I will delete. So to asic only or gpu only people please be polite. As for FPGA proponents also be polite. Looks good in theory, but this would be nearly impossible to implement since it would need to be done at the blockchain's protocol level. Difficultly is encoded in each block...to have difficulty "assigned" to each miner would not really be possible without some sort of centralized system managing it. Even if it was somehow managed decentralized via a sort of "smart contract" system on top of the protocol layer I could still see ways people could easily abuse this. Well lets say a guy has a z9 it does 10000 sols and pays a slight penalty since it is in the small miner since. So he figures a way to drop to 3x 3333 miners he still needs 3 ips and 3 mining permits/os So even though he gets his 300 watts and 10000 sols he pays more. the mining/os fees can all be rolled into bonus "uncle" blocks . I am not looking to kill off asics or fpga's I am looking to lower the financial incentive to pick them over gpus. Look you built moonlanders with 1 chip. So zecSticks with 1 chip become desirable in my example as they stay under that sol cap. Title: Re: How to level playing field in mining> Post by: MinedTangerine on May 25, 2018, 06:33:39 PM Not saying we should but how to do it. Yeah fork fork fork fork = pita How about ideas and proposals ? My newest idea is sell an OS with a license tied to your ip. So lets say my ip is 01.234.567.89 I buy an os that allows me to mine zec and or other alogs Something like ethos does. It is unique has its own number say 123456789 So they are paired 01.234.567.89 with 123456789 And if I am doing zec under 4000 sols = hobby miner so diff is x 4000 to 10000 sols = small miner so diff is 1.5x 10000 to 50000 sols = medium miner so diff is 3.0x 50000 to 250000 sols = large miner so diff is 9.0x over 250,000 sols = unlimited miner so diff is 20.0x It makes the attraction to asic's less since they have a higher difficulty. No forks gpus stay in the game hobby mining is not lost. Feel free to poke a hole at it but it seems like it could work. Any insult to anyone I will delete. So to asic only or gpu only people please be polite. As for FPGA proponents also be polite. I do not like ASICs, but....if you do it this way, why would anyone buy anything but the weakest miner. Buying a 3K$ ASIC to mine at basically the same dificulty as a hobby miner makes no sense. Title: Re: How to level playing field in mining> Post by: Tecmand on May 25, 2018, 06:52:20 PM My residential IP changes all the time. The number changes every few days. So it is difficult to tie an IP.
Title: Re: How to level playing field in mining> Post by: philipma1957 on May 25, 2018, 10:22:31 PM Not saying we should but how to do it. Yeah fork fork fork fork = pita How about ideas and proposals ? My newest idea is sell an OS with a license tied to your ip. So lets say my ip is 01.234.567.89 I buy an os that allows me to mine zec and or other alogs Something like ethos does. It is unique has its own number say 123456789 So they are paired 01.234.567.89 with 123456789 And if I am doing zec under 4000 sols = hobby miner so diff is x 4000 to 10000 sols = small miner so diff is 1.5x 10000 to 50000 sols = medium miner so diff is 3.0x 50000 to 250000 sols = large miner so diff is 9.0x over 250,000 sols = unlimited miner so diff is 20.0x It makes the attraction to asic's less since they have a higher difficulty. No forks gpus stay in the game hobby mining is not lost. Feel free to poke a hole at it but it seems like it could work. Any insult to anyone I will delete. So to asic only or gpu only people please be polite. As for FPGA proponents also be polite. I do not like ASICs, but....if you do it this way, why would anyone buy anything but the weakest miner. Buying a 3K$ ASIC to mine at basically the same dificulty as a hobby miner makes no sense. what do you think level the playing field means? It means making financial handicaps against asic and fpga to encourage a broadbase of mining. If you looked at my math you would see that asics would not be fully pushed down to gpu levels and that asics would still be somewhat better. Take the z9 300 watts 10000 sols cost 2.5k for the June one 33 sols a watt take a 2.5k 1080ti rig about 2000 sols at 500 watts or 4 sols a watt So the z9 is 8x better my numbers would make the diff for the asic 2x or 3x which means the asic is better but not that much better. Actually the diff increase could slide but the idea is to keep mining diverse. Since the al-gore-rythm would allow an asic you don't worry about getting forked into a brick the price you pay to not brick is less efficiency. I am looking create a handicap concept. I used to bowl a lot we had handicap rules that made a team of say 4 guys that bowled 200 each spot points to a team of 4 guys that bowled 150 each. so 800 vs 600 the low bowlers would be crushed. the league I was in used 80% handicap so the 200 better was x 80% or 160 point added to the lessor bowlers so the better bowlers did get some of the benefit of being better. in my idea asics get some of the benefit of being better asics also don't get bricked by forks but gpus even cpus still can mine somewhat. Look for me I have an unbeatable power deal up to 20k-watts I will always earn money unless the gear breaks. But to want to kill off millions of small gpu miners is moron stupid. and to say the gpu guy or cpu guy should buy an asic is not reasonable as many can not access them. There simply has to be a way of creating a flatter system. But why? Here is why ? the bowling alleys will not be filled with leagues without handicapped concepts for play. There are only so many 200 average bowlers. Same for mining there are only so many of us that can swing a power deal with no worries about sound or equipment delivery. My idea does not need to be for all coins. Just some. There are no handicap bowling leagues with all bowlers averaging 200 plus. You could have unrestricted coins btc ltc whatever. tie the ip may not be needed. a blankCoinOs that mines blank coin give it an identifier. give it levels level1 0 - 4000 sols level2 4000 - 10000 sols level3 10000 - 50000 sols level4 50000 - 250000 sols level5 250000 - 1000000 sols you only need 10 coins and algos like this it would kind of keep gpus only on them but it would keep gpus. level6 1000000 sols and up Title: Re: How to level playing field in mining> Post by: grendel25 on May 25, 2018, 11:11:51 PM Sorry but it's not really a comprehensive solution and it seems complicated. More stuff to buy (a separate OS...) more stuff to learn about and deal with (separate OS...)
It is doable... but I don't think everyone would be onboard and it would be like putting out a fire with a squirt gun. I don't see abandoning forks so quickly. A high quality fork or a high quality resistance algorithm should endure without so many forks being required. And this way, it's more transparent to miners and everyone else as opposed to some niche OS that turns into the Microsoft of the mining world. So that's where I stand... The challenge remains with the smart guys developing algorithms. Their job isn't over... yet. Title: Re: How to level playing field in mining> Post by: Onbusy on May 25, 2018, 11:29:17 PM I like the intent. Penalizing rarely works, or rather, is rarely accepted by the populace. Incentivizing usually works better. For example, I knew a landlord that made the rent due on the 10th of each month, but if you paid by the 1st, he gave you a discount! Yay, discount! Which was the same as charging normal rent on the 1st and charging a late fee by the 10th ...
I'm not very creative, so i don't have any better ideas. It would be difficult to prevent abuse of the system. Abuse of any system, really ... Most residential internet (at least Comcast/Xfinity) does not have a static IP address. It may be available at an additional fee, not 100% since I've never tried to get a static IP. Title: Re: How to level playing field in mining> Post by: philipma1957 on May 25, 2018, 11:30:03 PM Sorry but it's not really a comprehensive solution and it seems complicated. More stuff to buy (a separate OS...) more stuff to learn about and deal with (separate OS...) It is doable... but I don't think everyone would be onboard and it would be like putting out a fire with a squirt gun. I don't see abandoning forks so quickly. A high quality fork or a high quality resistance algorithm should endure without so many forks being required. And this way, it's more transparent to miners and everyone else as opposed to some niche OS that turns into the Microsoft of the mining world. So that's where I stand... The challenge remains with the smart guys developing algorithms. Their job isn't over... yet. This method favors smaller gear but allows bigger gear. Forks are exclusionary in principle but we don't need every coin to do my way just some. Remember every good fork making a good solid money making coin = an algo for asic builders to crack then mine on the sneak then sell tons of asics and gut the coin. So even great fork action is not enough. But I certainly would buy an os that lets me mine a six card gpu rig at a profit. With real protection against asics and forks as a backup method. I think ip is not needed maybe just an id for the os a unique number for each os. ethos has that. Title: Re: How to level playing field in mining> Post by: smaxz on May 25, 2018, 11:45:52 PM ethos is great but what we really need is proof of individuality.
ip address is not the answer. Title: Re: How to level playing field in mining> Post by: Onbusy on May 25, 2018, 11:55:45 PM Know Your Customer like a lot of the exchanges are doing? => Proof of Individuality ... /sarcasm
Title: Re: How to level playing field in mining> Post by: smaxz on May 26, 2018, 12:07:16 AM that would be proof of identity.. which isnt alltogether a bad thing..
but individuality is enough. Title: Re: How to level playing field in mining> Post by: philipma1957 on May 26, 2018, 12:37:52 AM ethos is great but what we really need is proof of individuality. ip address is not the answer. Well if it is a gpu rig and the os has a unique number the mobo has a unique serial number and the cpu has a unique serial number link the three as a set. and you have a unique rig . and I am not looking to exclude asics if you want to use them buy the super size os with less restrictions but more costly. Variations on this have to work and not exclude any one. but hinder big ass mining with large asic rigs. The os could be a 512 bit encrypted code different for each one The server on the pool reads it and knows it is a small rig or a big rig. Asics will work but at a higher cost due to the big size os . and the os is restricted by size. There must be identifier that is anonymous and unqiue. Title: Re: How to level playing field in mining> Post by: Agozyen on May 26, 2018, 01:31:23 AM IP addresses can change, and too many people would be hobby miners, negating any potential benefit for actual GPU miners. It's a neat idea but I think the best way is to keep ASICs away from coins by changing algos, assuming that is what the developer wants.
Title: Re: How to level playing field in mining> Post by: smaxz on May 26, 2018, 01:39:22 AM its an idea but doing it in a way that isn't centralized is difficult to implement.
hell even with centralization its near impossible to reliably implement. this is the fake generation, keep trying. Title: Re: How to level playing field in mining> Post by: ArunTomar on June 22, 2018, 04:49:08 AM World Wide Democracy - Existing beyond the mercy and control of any one nation government. Unfortunately nation governments have a treacherous track record with managing wealth creation and support for it's populace. Crypto currency presents opportunity for anyone anywhere to join in and participate with any number of crypto currencies. Google "cryptocurrency faucets". This is a free drink..coin rewarded to you for clicking on the faucet.
Title: Re: How to level playing field in mining> Post by: Tidsdilatation on June 22, 2018, 04:55:37 AM Introducing some sort of handicap/Penalty for ASICs could be one way to go. But i dont a way of implementing it since the ASICs have almost all the voting power due to high hashrate.
I like your idea, if you make a go of it i would definetly check it out. |