Bitcoin Forum

A news report suggests that Bitcoin fell from its $20,000 high water mark immediately after Futures trading of Bitcoin was opened. The seasoned traders pounced upon the innocent Bitcoin community like wolves in a sheep pen.

You can read the full report here:

https://www.ccn.com/bitcoin-price-drop-from-20000-likely-due-to-market-manipulation-traders/ (https://www.ccn.com/bitcoin-price-drop-from-20000-likely-due-to-market-manipulation-traders/)

Given these circumstances, don't you think it prudent to ban futures trading in Bitcoin? After all, it isn't part of Satoshi's original Blockchain protocol at all.  It's more of a loophole that allows professional traders to prey upon the innocent Bitcoin community.

And how do you plan on doing that?

I was hoping some knowledgeable person on this forum would furnish us with an answer.   ???

If there is such a clear correlation, can't we do anything to emerge out of the current mess by addressing this root cause?

i doubt that was highly important, its true that the banksters are gambling a lot the whole day, but bitcoin future being an alternative to actual bitcoin, isnt likely

the waste of ressources and the poverty that the bankster system causes creates support for bitcoin, by some

but after that they also dont support bitcoin because the see better alternatives.

regards

We can't do something about that, all we can do is go with the flow, that's why i wonder how did bitcoin lose it price so early and we can see right now it's losing again and no sign that it will rise again sooner.

I think currently bitcoin is in a very bad state, bitcoin prices continue to crash. and it is possible to trade bitcoins in tires. and if it should be, maybe it should be done in futures in some countries

I agree, people thought it was going to pump the market when futures was introduced but it has had the opposite effect. These market manipulators are killing bitcoin just so they can fill their own bags. It does need to be banned but i'm sure it won't though

It was apparent and a good number of Bitcoin enthusiasts saw that the emergence of Bitcoin futures was going to open the doors for the manipulation of the Bitcoin market, because Bitcoin futures would actually be an instrument to diffuse the positive sentiment of early adopters through their ability to short Bitcoin and since it's deep pockets club, they can readily instigate the dumping of the market and the panic sell off by regular most users, would be their dream come through.

There is no physical delivery of Bitcoin, and settlement is in a fiat currency. This means that it isn't a bitcoin futures market, but just a speculation on the price of Bitcoin.

Then you are expecting too much, if the gold holders cannot do that with a market that is many times bigger than the market of cryptocurrencies with a form of money that has been established for thousands of years, what makes you think that we would be able to accomplish more than them? You are not wrong when you say that the futures market is partially responsible for the drop in the price but there is nothing to do.

i just cant wait when btc hit 20 000$

It is true that we should do daily trading, but in bitcoin here many are investing in the long run, but I think that is also good for those who are busy with their Offline job.

There are things that's beyond our control. All we can do is to think of the best ways so we will not have any losses (or at least minimal loss). Bitcoin will recover from this for sure, it doesn't even hit rock bottom. ;)

Future Trading does not have to be banned, but the part where the scam is occurring is that no bitcoins are used in the Future Contracts.

Unlike Oil Futures, where you can request Actual Oil be delivered to you at the end of the contract.
Bitcoin Future only transact in FIAT, meaning no bitcoins are delivered or held and this is a way to make the supply of coins seem higher and cause a decrease in price by manipulating these trades.

If Bitcoin Futures were required to pay out in bitcoin, more bitcoins would have to be held and this would lower supply and drive up the price.

The Current Bitcoin Futures are nothing more than a scam to lower the price.  :P

 

Lol i thought you have a brilliant idea to banned this since youre the one who points this out,but instead of this issue,why not addressing the banning or standardization of ico project because this is the roots of scamming and the reason why investors leaving this forum because of rampant victimizing of this damn

price is around $9800 by the end of November when the news about Futures trading comes out. the market is super excited and we are already on a bull run. also a lot of money comes in. price jumps to $20,000 in 17 days which is a little more than a 100% rise.
by December 18 price is already in a bubble and there is a lot of FUD about how Futures will dump the price. people panic, the bubble burst and price falls. like it always had in the past. when the first Futures contracts are closing there is another wave of FUD and scare about how price is going to fall so people panic sell and price drops. when the next set is about to close there is the same FUD but people don't panic as much and the fall is not even significant.

i don't see how this has anything to do with Futures but not about how the market has always worked! i honestly don't see anything new. just the reason for the "panic" has changed.

Wow, isn't this ironic?
A bitcoin user who got angry when countries banned banks from doing BTC to fiat transactions, is now asking for a ban on Futures Trading.
So you want freedom but only when this freedom lets you get away with stuff.... ;D ;D

Just how lots of people here have predicted that somewhere in the futures governments will have no choice but to embrace BTC and live with it, right now your only choice is to do the same. If we ever arrive at a point where we ban what we don't like just like that, that society is doomed.


You're going to be banned for shitposting long before we reach that price again  :D

volumes on futures are very small, I do not think that they strongly affect the prices of crypto currency

There's nothing any of us can do.
Actually the best thing you can hope for is that more people get involved in it so that the whales have less influence.
Right now it's a brand new market (like crypto is) so it's easy to manipulate.
Just give it time.

Of course they do.
The ones who deal with futures contracts are also the ones who hold the most btc in real life so what do you expect?
They bet on one market and then manipulate the other.

Bitcoin futures is a derivative of Bitcoin and most derivatives in the financial markets are not actually exercised, but are traded out before their expiry date. It offers some ways to hedge against market volatility and knowing how volatile Bitcoin can be, high net worth holders of Bitcoin cannot but embrace this instrument.

Yes there is a chance in near future the bitcoin will be ban in the trading due to its quality and quantity and with that cypto currency will be exposed to the world because of its value and many people gets interested and with that they are trying to find ways to avoid banning the cypto currency or bitcoin.

Although altcoins grow, it still depends a lot on Bitcoin. So, if Bitcoin is really banned, I think the whole altcoins will be severely affected. Altcoins can not grow without Bitcoin.

We all should have daily trading for the future. We should invest in long term in bitcoin. Because of long-term investment, many profits are available. There is a high probability of bitcoin.

As it has been explained numerous times, Bitcoin futures are cash-settled, and as such they are utterly irrelevant to Bitcoin price. I don't think that the introduction of these derivatives in November/December was a mere coincidence (it may not), but they were not the cause of Bitcoin price crash in late December by any means. If anything, it is possible that they were instrumental in taking traders money who got lured into the Bitcoin derivatives market, but the volume traded back then was minuscule at best to have any detectable effect on Bitcoin and its price.

How can you ban bitcoin derivatives trading and futures trading first of all?

I don't know if the price drop was as a result of manipulation from futures trading, or just a natural event occurring as a result of the end of a bull market and start of a bear market (probably the latter, to be honest). But even if it was manipulation from futures trading, there is no way to stop futures trading itself.

Yes, it's not included in satoshi's vision. Because it's not a part of the bitcoin network. It's something that institutions can choose to offer for trading on their own markets. There is virtually no way of shutting it down per se, because it's simply not on-chain.

A ban on Bitcoin futures Trading? - Impossible! There's no way that can happen, as this would actually limit the number of users for the coin as it locks people in and seeing how quickly the market can change no one would want bitcoin. Plus, its hard to identify the cause in market volatility.

I think all the good and bad of the latest quotes are derived from futures. In December, the mega pump was caused by the imminent release of futures and due to their dump since January

I think exactly the same, bitcoin futures completely violate the basic policy of the crypto currency. Over time, I think bitcoin futures will become less relevant and all funds from futures will go to bitcoin coins.

To me future trading is like betting and is different trading futures on commodities which has an underlying assets to back it. With bitcoins people trades it futures base on luck .

LONG LIVE THE CORN!

I see there are no reason why we need to ban trading in Bitcoin. Bitcoin is a type of  cryptocurrency which creates many advantages for people. In the future , it maybe replace paper money. Besides, BTC trades in the Internet fast and conveniently. Specially, people can mine bitcoin  by using some special technical machine. In short, I don't agree with your idea.

The general ethos of Bitcoin is not to ban things at protocol level.  So even if we could ban futures trading, that doesn't mean we should.  Even if it were possible to for us ban it, I'd still be arguing against doing that, despite not being a fan of it. 

But, as everyone else has already pointed out, it can't be banned anyway.  If regulators give the go-ahead, then they can do it.  It's out of our hands.  The casino is open for business.

It was just all speculation of bitcoin price. We cannot say predict the future but if that would happen then so be it , we can't do anything about it.

I don't really understand why folks here are so agitated about banning Bitcoin futures? Oh, well, they are not quite happy with current Bitcoin prices (but who is, after all) and looking for a scapegoat to blame it and then punish it for their grievances over the prices. Guys, the volume in these futures was miserable anyway, so in no case the market can (could) be manipulated through them. It is not their fault that prices went down from 20k to where they are now.  Stop searching in the wrong places for the wrong causes, even if that might make your life easier, temporarily.

I still don't find any logic to ban futures trading in bitcoin because the more people and company come and trade the more its value become increase.

Technically, there is some sense in these agitations. If we keep in mind that these futures are cash-settled only, it doesn't necessarily follow that trading more should mean value rising. In fact, cash-settled is not only about buying as it is as much, if not more, about selling, which means that whoever has more cash can short the futures down to death. If the volume were really high and significant (it wasn't), then such allegations could actually make a lot of sense, but since the volume was miserable anyway, whether someone tried to corner the market or outright bring it down was inconsequential to Bitcoin price on the markets where real coins were traded.

I think its hard to do like that mostly if we don't have a strong powers only people who high level can do that not like us, Only need to is go with the flow and wait for those people to do what you want.

The Cryptocurrency sphere is very new and fragile, if you were to ban futures, the currency would still be subceptible to manipulations from other sectors.
The solution in my opinion, is for more seasoned investors to get into digital currency, and give it some sort of stability.

It is impossible to ban Bitcoin futures trading. There is no way that can happen, because this will really limit the number of users to coins because they lock people and see how fast the market can change. No one wants bitcoin. In addition, it is difficult to identify causes in market volatility.

It would be hard to impose such an action. How do we know that a person was trading when it was anonymous and we could only know blocks of bitcoin on blockchain? How about normal usage? Can we find it out who really are using the coins for the intended purpose? It is really a great problem but the idea ia good. Maybe there is another way around for this. Like for example trading will only be limited per one transaction in a day. But volumes of bitcoin will also be affected. There are rally a lot of factor to consider.

I was always negative about Bitcoin futures, but Bitcoin should show its strength and be stronger than the influence of the tree on the crypto currency market. The current situation showed how weak the market was.

How can you ban something when you don't have control over it? Besides, isn't it this is a free market? Where are those people bitching around that bitcoin future's are good for the ecosystem because it will bring fresh blood to the market and influx of money will continue? Perhaps its one of the reasons why we kept on struggling, but its not the main reason, there are a lot of factors like governments and central banks hostility to bitcoin, supply and demand, investors interest.

I believe the idea of trading has really contributed a lot to make bitcoin really popular to the world of crypto. Trading has really attracted people to the world of crypto hence trading in bitcoin should be encouraged.

I don't think that it is necessary to prohibit bitcoin trading and that it is generally possible in the near future, the dollar is traded for example. The time will come and the price of bitcoin will stabilize and the need to ban trade will fall away

There is nothing wrong with Bitcoin futures as such. It is more about which method is used for settlement of these contracts upon their expiration or exercise. If Bitcoin futures had been physically settled, that would mean actual bitcoins had to be delivered on expiration or exercise. Then it would be a good thing for Bitcoin. But as these futures are only cash-settled, which means there is no physical delivery, this potentially opens doors to heavy market manipulation provided there is enough trading volume in these futures. The good news is that there is not enough volume to set up any meaningful trap to corner the market in any effective way, so there is no need to worry and ban them.