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I've been reading more and more about the poor working conditions of some of Apple's outsourced manufacturing plants. My question is, what are your thoughts?

I'm writing this from an iPad please bear in mind, so I'm not taking any high ground.

Is it enough for you to think about changing your device in future?

See this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2092277/Apple-Poor-working-conditions-inside-Chinese-factories-making-iPads.html

(Yes, it's the daily mail)

Well, nobody forces them to work for Apple. Its their choice. In fact chinese people wish to work there

Spoken like a true IFascist Applefanboy lol.

Hmm, there are many companies like this, the list goes on really.

Perhaps we should move to another country on the grounds that our tax is being used to fund illegitimate wars and pay a bunch of corrupt officials.

Erm, I speak the truth. Nobody forces them to work for apple. I'd say to them "Go mine DOGE man, wth are you doing at this dump" but they woldnt listen :(

And I don't like apple stuff. More fond of windows/android.

Haha.

Most women aren't forced into prostitution but for some it's unfortunately the only choice they have. Apple should take a stand and refuse to work or buy from any producers who have unfair practises. If your boss started treating you like shit, would you think oh, well, it's my choice to work here or would you quit? If that job was the only one you knew you could get then you'd probably just tolerate it, but otherwise you'd most likely just walk out, but these people probably don't have that luxury.

Would you rather work in a sweatshop or starve to death? Doesn't seem like you have much of a choice in that situation.

Crippling (often literally), mind-numbing work for 70h/wk at $1/hr isn't acceptable. $5/hr for their kind of work is unacceptable. At the same time, most people can't afford to be fair, and fairness by a corporation (at least in the US) is just a notch away from being criminal unless you can justify the PR effects.

It sucks, but there's not really a solution outside foreign buyers stipulating minimum wages in purchase agreements, Chinese workers collectively demanding higher wages and better working conditions, or Chinese manufacturers not accepting offers where they're unable to pay their employees a reasonable wage. Frankly, the easiest solution would be for the Chinese government to simply kick out foreign companies, nationalizing their buildings and building up Chinese conglomerates which don't need foreign support.

I think Apple's public opinion is starting to near that of Monsanto or Disney with all the news of their factories and the well-documented dragon-like greed of Jobs, so they really do have justification to start changing things outside of just to be nice, but it's not happened, yet. Of course, singling out Apple is stupid. Practically everyone with electronics has something from Foxconn or similar. It's like singling out McDonalds for having unhealthy food and "low" wages. If you have any kind of digital computer, you've probably supported these kinds of practices. It's a systemic, global problem, not something caused exclusively by Apple and the factories it purchases from.

Good to see a mix of opinions. It's not just Apple, you're right but it's certainly involving Apple. The reason for all of this is in in one word; profit. The less a company can pay for their manufacturing, the more profit they can make on the end sale. Unfortunately, paying less often means going to countries for services where pay is low, or there is little choice but to be paid low. This, of course, means that there's poverty. Where there is profit, not always but often, there's poverty at the other end of the scale. This is at it's most true in manufacturing. Look up Primark.

You cannot say something stupid like 'it's their own choice' when they've put nets up to stop people from jumping out the fucking windows. Get a grip.

I wonder if the nets are there to save lives or save on the cleaning bill?

Definitely the latter I'm sure.

Not even close to what I'm witnessed first-hand: Lead paint flakes and dust, no gloves to protect from the splinters and cold, sharp nails protruding all over the place, dull saw blades constantly in use, no goggles on site, chafed electrical cords with exposed wires arcing, one door to exit and enter the place, heavy lifting for 8-10 hours, people smoking in other people's faces, cussing and racial slurs, no paid vacations, working on holidays, no insurance, years old animal shit mixed with the microdust abound, no fresh drinking water on site, no first aid kits on site, and the list continues. Daily, I have to convince my grandmother not to quit.

I never used Apple products just because I think they treat people like idiots. "Why would you wanna upgrade your hardware, we know what's best for you, why would you wanna mess with the system - use our system with our products, you wanna check what's inside your computer? Noo why would you do that? Oh and by the way, we charge extra for the logo!"

Wow. Sorry to hear that man. Puts things in perspective. Sounds like it's worse than has been reported, which is rare for the daily mail.

Before I'm a big fan of Apple. Love it. Not anymore, since more and more smartphones provide us better apps and all the unique things.
I really like the 5C and 5S to but I feel something isnt right ???

As far as I'm concerned it's a classic case of the problem being with the people who buy these goods because of their price and don't wonder where they've come from, ever since I learned about how to build stuff I actually get pissed about people going for the cheap stuff who then suddenly act shocked when they find out it's made by workers who are treated like crap and paid tiny wages. Same thing happened with the whole horsemeat problem where lots of meat providers were selling cheap and crappy meat then everybody is shocked that they got screwed over by these companies.

Even with just my Jewellery making, I bought a cheap pair of shears for cutting solder with and the edges were blunt, returned it for a refund and bought a pair that was slightly pricier but the quality difference was dramatic, the only people responsible for crappy treatment of employees and crappy products are the customers themselves even if they don't like to admit it. If you pressure people to provide things for prices that low then you'll either force them out of business or make them lower the quality or even drop peoples wages massively to stay in business.

p.s. I'm not going to get an Iphone when I can afford it because I want to use something that I can install the Bitcoin wallet app on :D

And child soldiers chose their preferred profession, it's not like they had to do it to survive.

Its not about Apple, its about working conditions in China. Unfortunately most goods are made in China because of cheap workforce and not worrying about environment...

this
most people in China are very poor especially in rural areas so the only choise they realy have is to cultivate rice and sell it for pennies or go work for apple/nike/dell/etc.
The only thing I don't really get about China is why China has the largest gold and cash reserves out of all countries yet its own people has to work in such poor labour conditions

You can install the Blockchain.info app on there  ;D.

It's not usually a case of survival. They're usually just kidnapped and forced to do it. Blood Diamond is a good film to watch about this.

Not good at all, but unfortunately hard to find a manufacturer that doesn't do this. People like to think they don't support this sort of thing but sure most people would be more opposed to prices going up to allow fair wages without hurting profit margins.

There's an alternative coming in the mobile phone industry, called PhoneBlocks. There are some good vids on youtube explaining it. Essentially, it's a phone with customisable/replaceable parts. Must be better for the environment too.

Wasn't that just a concept and not an actual workable idea? It's great as an idea, but I'm not sure how workable or how easy it is to implement.

Nope, Motorola have teamed up to start making it

http://m.ibtimes.com/phonebloks-motorola-partners-3d-systems-modular-smartphone-future-project-ara-1485168

I'm still sceptical this will work out, and if it does it won't work anywhere near as well or look like how it's presented in that video.

What makes you say that?

Because the technology and electronics doesn't really work as easily as just swapping parts around - Phones are not just elaborate lego designs. It's a great idea, but not sure how technologically feasible it is. Read the comments: http://hackaday.com/2013/09/13/ask-hackaday-can-we-do-better-than-phonebloks/ & http://www.reddit.com/r/electronics/comments/1m4m0f/this_is_currently_on_the_front_page_a_good/

I'd love to be proved wrong though.

Yeah maybe you're right. I would have thought Motorola would know a little about electronics though. I guess we will see. My wifi has gone in my iPhone so I'm all for being able to replace it that easily!

I think many companies that operate in china have such working conditions,I don't feel comfortable to the way they are treated there but I have doubts about any company that operate in china. The solutions should come from china itself by making laws for workers safety and salaries if it already crossed the we-don't-care area and already became a country that care about it's people.

Well it's a good idea, but not sure if they can pull it off as much as they'd like too. They'll probably just end up with a phone where you can replace the battery or a few other parts easily. If they do succeed I doubt it'll look or work as slick as the one in that video, but as I say, I'd love to have my scepticism demolished.

Yeah you're probably right. Think that's just the concept at the moment. This idea can be applied to loads of things. Cars that you can upgrade/replace parts easily without a mechanic,
For example.

I dont think the workers making Samsung phones are exactly having a blast either

I suppose I think of them about as often as they do about me.

True. Samsung imposed such poor working conditions in its Brazilian manufacturing facility that the Brazilian government sued them!

Quote from an article I found online:

A US-based NGO, China Labor Watch, has compared the working conditions at Samsung with the situation seen in China at Apple's manufacturer Foxconn. But this is different - Apple had a service contract with Foxconn, who treated its employees poorly despite telling their client that labor regulations would be respected. This is not to say that Apple wasn't also at fault, but the company treated the situation in a transparent manner and Tim Cook made sure that he was seen flying to China to demand changes. Requirements were raised so the bar was set higher across its entire supply chain and the Fair Labor Association got involved in the process.

With Samsung in Brazil, it is a different story. In this case there is no outsourced contractor to blame - we are talking about poor working conditions at their own factories. When questioned about the latest lawsuit, Samsung sent me a one-paragraph statement, which said that it is "committed to providing a workplace that adheres to the highest standards in the industry in relation to safety, health and wellbeing" and that it will fully cooperate with the Brazilian authorities when notified.

Well, you want cheap devices, do you not. Can you imagine what would happen if all workes had a 50% raise in their wage? Correct, your devices would be more expensive as well.

As for unethical and bad conditions, it's rampant everywhere. A lot of the stuff you use in daily life is either produced by poor workers, or is made by companies who participate in unethical business practices. Once a company reach a certain size, there's always something bad going on inside it.

True, it's really got me thinking about it in everyday life. The laptop I'm writing on now while checking my phone in front of the TV that my son is watching. All made affordable to me by the exploitation of other people

The whole working system and worker's rights system in china should be revised because it clearly give advantage to all business/factories owners and take away worker's right.

I somehow doubt that's true.


iPhones and iPads aren't exactly cheap.

True, but the point that he was making is that an increase in their wages would be passed straight on to the customer, such that Apple could maintain their epic profit margins.

They are sitting on a mountain of cash, they could easily pay a lot more to their workers - but they will pay 'market rates'.

They could actually solve a LOT of poverty problems with the profits they have, but it's all about that word profit. And making more of it.

Yup, they serve shareholders, and their own pockets and future survival. I'm not too clued up with charity work and that, but Bill Gates and his wife, Melinda put a shitload of their own wealth towards good.

I can't remember who it was who argued that Apple could pay more to these workers and change their lives, for some reason Gary Vaynerchuk comes to mind, but I don't think that it was him. But then if it is a drastic difference then it can have effects on the economy in those countries. Would be nice though if Apple took the hit on their profits to make the lives of their workers even just a little more comfortable.

We must also realize what looks as bad conditions in our eyes, may not necessarily be bad conditions in another country. The alternative may be no job, and go starving.

But remember the suicide nets put up outside. Must be pretty bad.

True but if that is accepted then thing will never improve on the status quo.

Yeah, and we're just as bad as the people who directly implement the conditions.

Statutory rape, forced marriages and female circumcision might not be necessarily bad in some countries but that doesn't mean we should condone them. If these are normal practises then it's up to that country to make unfair business practises illegal. If you don't pay your employees a decent wage or provide them with safe conditions and working hours etc then you should get fined or your business shut down, and regardless of that western companies and people should refuse to buy or boycott anything from companies that do not meet certain standards. You can't exploit poverty this way. These companies would soon change their practises if this happened.

I'm not defending any position. I am stating the facts. There are poor people in this world that will do things that we would never think of, and by doing these things, they will improve their own situation. There are obviously a number of things in this world that's not good at all, but things are the way they are, of course many things should and will be changed, but life's quite different, depending on where you come from and where you live.

I'm just trying to put things into context.

Claiming it's the worker's own choice is just ridiculous, it's hardly a choice if it's the only working opportunity you're able to get to provide for yourself and possibly a family.

However I'm not surprised by the 'news'. A massive amount of electronic companies use as much cheap labour as they possibly can.

You are reading this just now. It's been years since it was first reported of the poor condition in the factories that makes Apple products. I've heard they plan to move a lot of it back to US, but they can do that now since they've made so much money, but who knows for sure. You should read more about Foxcoon (company that makes Apple products) that has about 1.2 million workers. It's SEO even once called his workers animals, which sadly wasn't far from truth considering in what conditions they are forced to work.

Even if most companies, apple is one of the worst. At these working conditions, it's slavery an nothing else. I heard that there are some factories in Taiwan where they lock the doors so that the employees don't escape. A factory took on fire and they ALL died in there. Stop slavery. Buy local

The list of companies doing that is uncountable, so as far as they are not forcing people to work for them they aren't doing anything wrong according to me !! :)