Bitcoin Forum

So I had a couple listings for a Titan Bitcoin and a Casascius bitcoin on eBay. They were removed by eBay today and I received an email notice stating the following:

"Due to regulations around the world, eBay restricts what types of currency can be listed. Replica coins are not allowed on eBay. All virtual currency must be listed in the Classified Ad format in the Coins & Paper Money > Virtual Currency category, regardless of whether the item is digitally or physically delivered."

So I relisted them as the email indicated. Only as a classified ad, and in the category they suggested. I guess eBay is cracking down on Bitcoin. However it's kind of an insult to say that a Casascius coin is a "replica".

I feel for you but I guess because some ebays around the world are not accepting Bitcoin due to regulations in their countries of origin they have to re evaluate and re classify it all. Many countries are finding it hard to find a solid classification for Bitcoin. I just wish they could do what Germany dd and accept it as legal tender then it would make everything so easy. :)

Seems to me like you just posted it in the wrong category.

I do not get it.
When did they a "Virtual Currency" category to eBay?

Yes. But this sucks because as far as I can tell, you can only list for 30, 60, and 90 days. There is a $10 listing fee, and I saw no buy it now option.

Am I missing something?

Is this why people are selling 1 penny, and gifting the BTC, and does ebay even fall for these pathetic loopholes?

Isn't ebay owned by the paypal guys? I'm sure they have banned people for listing Bitcoin related stuff on there.

I think it is the other way around...ebay owns paypal (i think), not 100% sure though..

When are you guys going to learn?

No Paypal, no ebay.

End of story.

My $.02.

;)

So what's an alternative?

we should all support a bitcoin style auction site to compete with ebay.

Ebay, like paypal, takes too much in fees anyhow.

Recently: http://voiceofrussia.com/2014_01_22/Ebay-to-add-virtual-currency-category-for-bitcoin-3617/

I'm in.

There was Bitmit, but it's been dead since it was sold. It didn't work so well for me either - I got burned a few times and never managed to get a decent transaction completed.

Working on this now actually. Stay tuned... :)

I sold quite a few Casascius and Lealana 3 weeks ago without any problem.

I really think it's a wrong section problem more than anything.

Yeah, they took around 12% on my Casascius and Lealana sell, that's ridiculous !

Thank you for that, very interesting. I think, ebay opening up for bitcoin auctions is a good thing!

I used to sell World Of Warcraft gold and characters and items on eBay and after 2006-2008 (between that time frame I recall) they did not allow people to sell because of the amount of fraud, hence if the internet is over 50% piracy what would the statistics be for fraud within the realm? ebay most likely does not want the bad publicity!

eBay removed my dogecoin listing last night. they used the same memo.

https://i.imgur.com/ktXyQ3J.jpg

why "everything else -> information products" when they have made a virtual currency category? or there was still no such category at that time?
and could somebody please give me a link to these classified ad listings because i'm unable to find them

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jan/21/ebay-clamps-down-on-bitcoin-sales-in-the-uk

Its more so Ebay can have some kind of legal cover if everything goes tits up on the buyer/seller. At the moment they just kind of put it as an unknown thing and different really cover it in its user agreement.

I am sorry to say Germany has not recognized Bitcoin as legal tender.  I will add the point of how they classify Bitcoin and will add the whole document I translated for general information.

BaFin (German federal financial supervisory agency) has qualified Bitcoin (BTC) as legally binding financial instrument in the form of units of account in accordance with § 1, paragraph 11, sentence 1 of the Banking Act (KWG).  These are units that are compared with foreign currency and not denominated as legal tender. 

Here is the complete document.  I have not translated the risk part they have added but will follow up.

This is the official standpoint of Bitcoin (BTC) by the German federal financial supervisory agency.  (BAFIN - Bundesanstalt für Finanzdienstleistungsaufsicht)

Bitcoins (BTC):  Supervisory review and risks for users
Jens Münzer, BaFin
19.12.2013

For some time now media articles have been piling up dedicated to care and special characteristics of Bitcoin (BTC).  Germany's federal financial supervisory agency would like to convey by request from authorities, consumers and businesses with this document its official position and assessment of Bitcoin (BTC). 

In addition, this article provides an overview of the possible risks to which the users of Bitcoins (BTC) will be exposed.  This refers to Bitcoin (BTC); the contents however are transferable to other similarly structured digital currencies without a central administration, such as LiteCoin, PPCoin and corresponding clones.

Bitcoins (BTC) are a virtual currency whose transactions and balances are managed in a decentralized network.  By cryptographic calculations can in principle any network user participate in the creation of money.  A central bank that performs this function in real currencies, therefore, does not exist.  Debuted in 2009, a number of goods, services, IT applications or Activities can now be purchased with Bitcoin (BTC). 

Virtual Currencies:  The European Banking Authority EBA published in mid-December, a reference to virtual currencies.

http://www.eba.europa.eu/-/eba-warns-consumers-on-virtual-currencies

Nature of Bitcoins:

Bitcoin (BTC) is based on the idea of a non-governmental substitute currency with a limited money supply.  Unlike Fiat currency that can be issued indefinitely by central and commercial banks, creation of new Bitcoins (BTC) occur via a mathematical procedure within a computer network.  The network solves complex crypto graphical tasks (Mining).  Due to the increasing complexity of the tasks, the Bitcoin (BTC) supply increases more slowly, until it finally reaches the maximum number of 21 million.  There is just over 12 million Bitcoins (BTC) in circulation as of the end of 2013.  Bitcoins (BTC) are divisible, so that smaller units can be transferred as a Bitcoin (BTC). 

The Bitcoin (BTC) project has been implemented as open-source software, making the application freely available to everyone.  Any potential user can download client programs, by means of which it can participate in the Bitcoin (BTC) network.  The network functions as peer-to-peer; in turn all users are facing each other as equals.  There is no central controlled authority that generates controls, manages, or carries out transactions of Bitcoins (BTC). 

Existing Bitcoins (BTC) are assigned to so-called addresses.  These consist of a randomly generated series of letters and numbers.  Each user can generate multiple addresses, which in turn Bitcoins (BTC) may be associated with these addresses.  These addresses are managed by the user’s wallet files that contain the addresses and the respective private and public key pairs that are used to authenticate Bitcoin (BTC) transactions within the network.  The user can transfer within the network to and from their addresses Bitcoin (BTC) with other users.  The user needs to communicate outside the network the respective destination addresses.

The Bitcoin (BTC) with its respective addresses and transactions are publicly visible in a central file called the block chain.  Based solely on the address visible in the network you cannot know who holds this address.  Once transactions are initiated they are generally not reversible.  In addition to the transfer of Bitcoins (BTC) within the network, it is also possible to transfer wallet addresses and keys physically between people by being passed around on mediums. 

Regulatory classification

BaFin (German federal financial supervisory agency) has qualified Bitcoin (BTC) as legally binding financial instrument in the form of units of account in accordance with § 1, paragraph 11, sentence 1 of the Banking Act (KWG).  These are units that are compared with foreign currency and not denominated as legal tender.  This includes value units, which have the function of private cash in ring swap transactions, as well as any other currency substitute that is used under private law agreements as means of payment in multilateral transaction circles.  For this it is not crucial to have a central issuer.

Bitcoins (BTC) are not electronic currency within the meaning of the Payment Services Oversight Act (ZAG), since there is no issuer, the Bitcoin (BTC) does not have grounds for a claim against its outputs.  This is in digital currencies different which has a central point behind it, for example, Liberty Reserve.  Bitcoins (BTC) are not legal tender and therefore not varieties of foreign currencies. 

Bitcoins (BTC) can be used to offset debt contracts between involved parties.  By the delivery of Bitcoins (BTC) customers obtain the desired performance in the form of a purchase item, a service, a legal tender or other commercial market trade.  The commercial use of Bitcoins (BTC) can therefore trigger a license requirement under the Banking Act (KWG).  If you do not hold this license it is a criminal offense according to § 54 KWG. 

Authorization requirement

The mere use of Bitcoin (BTC) as a substitute currency for cash or legal currency for participation in the economic cycle in the exchange business is not an activity requiring a license.  The provider can make them pay his services with Bitcoin (BTC) without providing banking transactions or financial services.  The same applies for the customer.  Likewise, the mining of Bitcoin (BTC) in itself is not a permit-requiring business, since the Miner of the Bitcoin (BTC) is not self-issued or placed.  The sale of prospected or acquired Bitcoins (BTC) or its purchase is generally not subject to authorization. 

When other circumstances are added, the permit requirement may be triggered.  This is the case if Bitcoins (BTC) are not only mined, bought or sold in order to participate in an existing market, but a special contribution is made to obtain or create a market.  Due to the additional service element, it is then requiring a permit for proprietary trading in accordance with § 1, paragraph 1 No. 4 of the Banking Act.  This is the case when a person is in the market which advertises that they regularly purchase or sell Bitcoins (BTC).  Another example is mining pools that offer a commercial share of the revenue from mined and sold Bitcoins (BTC) by the provision of computing power by the end user. 

Several authorization rules

If the Bitcoin (BTC) itself is a commodity, several authorization rules in particular to broking services are concerned.  This is in accordance with § 1 paragraph 1 sentence 2 No. 4 of the Banking Act, the multilateral trading system, investment and acquisition services and the already described proprietary trading (§ 1, paragraph 1, sentence 2 No. . 1-4 KWG).  The commercial trade in Bitcoin (BTC) is currently done mainly through so-called Bitcoin (BTC) platforms, which are often referred to as Bitcoin (BTC) exchanges.  Under these terms, these medians bring together many different business models.  When it comes to the issue of the license requirement, it must be differentiated according to the technical implementation and the particular configuration of the contracts and transactions.

Financial commission business

The one who buys and sells in his own name professionally Bitcoins (BTC) for the account of others, operates a broking services which a permit is required.  The purchase or sale of Bitcoins (BTC) is carried out for the account of others, if the economic advantages and disadvantages of this business affect the client.  Furthermore, the activity of the commission business under the Commercial Code is sufficiently similar, individual rights and responsibilities may vary from the typical commission business.  In Bitcoin (BTC) platforms the required broking services permit is in compliance when:

•   the member of the platform is authorized to issue the execution of the order by the number and price of the deal
•   the relevant participants and their trading partners are not known and the Bitcoin (BTC)-platform occurs not as a representative of the participants, but in his own name
•   meet the economic advantages and disadvantages of business participants to transfer the money on platform accounts or Bitcoin (BTC)transferred to their addresses
•   Bitcoin (BTC) platform is obliged to account to the participants about the execution of transactions and to transfer procured Bitcoins (BTC)

Multilateral Trading Systems

Bitcoin (BTC) platforms that do not perform broking services, then it is usually the operation of a multilateral trading system.  A multilateral trading system brings the interests of a large number of people buying and selling financial instruments within the system according to the provisions laid down together in a way that result in a contract concerning these financial instruments. 
This means in the case of Bitcoin (BTC) platforms that have a set of membership rules, the Bitcoin (BTC) trade between members and messages on completed transactions are present.  A trading platform in the technical sense is not necessary.  Multilateral means that the operator brings together only the parties to a potential transaction in Bitcoin (BTC).  As interest in the purchase and sale are also indications of interest, orders and quotes.  A variety of people primarily means that it does not require a mandate to mediate in individual cases.  The interests need to be merged according to the rules and standards by software or protocols for conclusion of the contract, without the parties deciding whether to enter into a Bitcoin (BTC) business with a particular contracting party.  Whether the contract is then handled within the system, is of no importance. 

Multilateral trading systems are therefore used in particular at Bitcoin (BTC) platforms that adjust provided Bitcoins (BTC) by a set price threshold at which a trade is to be conducted, or where transactions through the Bitcoin (BTC) platform are secured through escrow services, and then released once the payment has been confirmed. 

Brokerage and proprietary trading

In the offering of locally structured classified web directories of persons offering Bitcoins (BTC) to buy or sell in their place of residence, it is investment and acquisition services.  Providers that exchange as "bureaux de change" legal currencies directly in Bitcoin (BTC), satisfy the conditions of proprietary trading.  In the past Bitcoin (BTC) platforms either had nonexistent or unclear service plans or usually did not provide general business conditions. 

The license requirement in total is on a legal level a very complex issue. Potential providers should therefore seek early assessment of the BaFin for their planned activities in order to clarify whether those subject to supervision.

Did you use the classified ad format? Or did it slip under the radar? I have to use the classified ad format now I guess because they won't give me the benefit of ignorance next time.

That being said after re-reading the email again I did list them again, now with the classified ad format, so yes, it's probably just the wrong category, and not so much category, but format. I think eBay are just being extra prudent not to back sale of bitcoin, since there is no buyer/seller protection with the classified ad format.

Actually to test I just ran a search for "Casascius" and my new listings came up among the rest of them. (So I'm not so upset about it anymore.) In the price column you will notice under the price if it says "Buy it Now", "9 bids", "or Best Offer" and then further down the page they will start saying "Classified ad". 

Problem is that instead of people just purchasing I'm getting bogus emails: "Hi this is so beautiful, what is your lowest asking price?"

Didn't use the classified ad format, it was normal bidding auctions.

Maybe I got lucky !

Not very happy with eBay's policies myself. Sold my cointerra 2TH feb preorder on there to a *reputable* ebay buyer who paid with PayPal, low and behold within 1-2 hours the charge was reversed. ALMOST got me good, I was just about to update the shipping info too..

I hope you left him bad feedback!

Keep us tuned!

I'm going to guess that an enormous percentage of sales regarding Bitcoin end up going tits up on Ebay, maybe even the majority. They're probably completely and utterly sick of dealing with it.

The classified solution still makes them some money and saves them a lot of trouble.

There's already an Auction site for Freicoins if anyone interested in those.
 
  http://fre.icoin.ch/ (http://fre.icoin.ch/)

Sellers cannot leave negative feedback for buyers.  This has been egay policy for some time.

My $.02.

;)