Bitcoin Forum

People usually forget the following fact:

"Fiat requires commercial banks, central banks, ATMs, armored cars, hundreds of thousands of employees, among other things to work. The central bank, in this case the FED, does not magically distribute the US dollar to every person in the country at their doorstep."

https://www.ccn.com/op-ed-cryptocurrencies-like-bitcoin-consume-significantly-less-resources-than-fiat-money/

This is interesting, because even mining is not so dangerous for the resources, I think is pretty feasible.

I think now that blockchain can have a good impact on energy resources, as it can be used to ease the distribution of renewable energy.

Depending on the country, the price of electricity varies from country to country, but there are different prices for bitcoin in each region, but the price of bitcoin depends on the country and low on the price of the country's resources.

The whole point of the article is to that btc doesn't consume as much energy as the fiat system does.
I have a feeling you didn't even read the OP.  ::)

they also love to turn the bitcoin mining drama into an environmental thing but they forget about all the trees that are cut down to print money and all the paperwork that is a waste of everything when you use a bank.

additionally this energy consumption is used to provide high level of security for a $120+ billion dollar market.

Bitcion is not consuming energy too high we access Internet even solar power we can help decreasing pollution.

Exactly, always putting on that bad side

Yeah I think so because bitcoin does not really need too much energy like a bank, and it's really good if the world's finances use bitcoin or crypto in the future.

In the article explains the use of energy "physical money" is greater than "mining bitcoin" which is only to be able to transact.
Everyone has chosen to use transactions with virtual compared than using physical money. Making physical money will be more energy-consuming than bitcoin mining. if we have to choose whether it is better to print physical money with greater energy than to mine that could have less energy consumption but the same function is to make transactions, I think all will choose crypto compared with physical money.

In the era now, people want to be fast. especially in making transactions. and I think it's worth it if you have to spend more energy than usual.
but the article explains that energy spending will be smaller if using digital currencies compared using physical currency. where the cost and energy to be spent is greater to print physical money.
so what else we have to choose, everything is clear, digital currency is more energy efficient

I think you fail to understand the major problem.

Bitcoin problem is the fact that it's Energy Wasting is Growing Exponentially!

https://media.pri.org/s3fs-public/styles/original_image/public/bitcoin-chart.jpg?itok=AdNMqUuP
https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-12-20/bitcoins-sky-rocketing-energy-use-viral-story-we-checked-math

The Modern Fiat system of Banks and visa card payment do use electricity ,
but it has taken decades to reach it's current energy footprint and its growth rate is Not Exponential,
Never have we heard of a bank being refused permission to operate because they used so much electricity they increase the rates for everyone else.

In Crypto , we already have coins that don't use proof of work and have more transactions capacity than bitcoin and their energy consumption is so small, it won't even be noticed.

Trying to cover up a major bitcoin problem by saying well just because Bitcoin is destroying the planet , but the other guy is worse , is pure bullshit.

When your parents or grandparent or friends can't afford to heat or cool their homes because the bitcoin miner down the road is raising their electric rates.
Then you realize all that money bitcoin is worth is coming at the direct expense of the poor and elderly.

Yes, people who don't have regular jobs and make bitcoin their only source of income tend to relocate to areas with low electricity cost. But if you think about it power is essential even in fiat cureencies. Printing paper money or coins. Digital money is more efficient i guess. But these are just my thoughts, not necessarily correct

https://www.ccn.com/worlds-largest-diamond-retailer-joins-de-beers-blockchain-project/

I think the article above that can not be believed because memojokan a party, let's compare with our eyes. Bitcoin and Ethereum mining does not require much electricity. already a lot of evidence in some articles I read. and the news above will only make FUD just for Bitcoin.

Most cases the prices does not depend on a country, I think it depends on the Dollar equivalent to the country's currency because exchangers works between dollar value to the country currency. So the price of bitcoin is the same value to every country. Is during conversion. 

I think you have a point. Not all transactions in flat currency consumes energy specially if you are poor people or an unbanked person. But the real problem is that the production of this currency requires energy and just electrical energy, it also involves work force and some mineral of the earth that I think is harmful to the environment. On the other hand, cryptocurrency uses pure electrical energy after it has been set up and does not need to maintain its number because its how they did it. The electricity used to mine cryptocurrency can be renewable one and if you are thinking that we might run out of energy then think again. I believe that in the near future we would never need oil and other non-renewable resources just to produce energy because of the innovations.

seems the articles 'expert' in zing zangs link cant grasp simple maths
the expert does a very weird way of working out his estimate. (facepalm)

. but here is a more straight forward way

 if you take the ~35exa hash this week for the network
thats 2,500,000 s9 miners running all the time on average
at 1.3kw/h per asic=3,250,000kw/h for the network

3,250,000kw/h (3250mw/h   3.25gw/h   0.00325tw/h) =28.47tw/year

no guess. no estimate. just plain math

Yes, it is. You can see the summary report in this post
https://btcmanager.com/bitcoin-uses-0-5-percent-of-worlds-energy-supply-says-peer-reviewed-report/
Everything has its 2 aspect: good or bad. And of course, the environment is effected together with the rising of coins.  ;)

Hmm,
Your math is missing,
energy usage from Lighting, (silly humans don't work well in the dark)?
energy usage from network routers & Internet connections & security cameras?
energy usage from any full nodes running in their operations?
energy usage from Cooling those asics? (Depending on Geo-location temperatures.)  ;)
(Asics got heating covered, so that is no issue.)  :)

of the topics you write, the outline of everything is 'Bitcoin is better', why I say so, because bitcoin creates convenience only through mobile phones or gadgets that we have. not as complicated as a bank and many rules that make the customers forced to follow it.

Miners believe to rising price in order to pay back electricity.
Mining btc when price 6-7k is not profitable of course

They need to find out a ways to manage this...For example creating a special complex where the electricity would be created from the solar panels, or something similar. The alternative sources.

And what energy for Fiat currency requires more than a digital currency.  If you think about how many forests are cut down for paper production, etc.

I don't think the energy use to produce cryptocurrencies are so high because the number of transactions needed to be validated on the blockchain and smart contracts are even more demanding of energy than what is currently use.

I don't know about you , but I went paperless over 10 years ago.  ;)
Get all of your account info online and tell the company to no longer send paper statements.
Plenty of software apps can act as digital file cabinets for your records.

If Bitcoin energy usage was growing at a sustainable rate of even as high as 10%, the world could most likely meet that demand for years.
Problem is Bitcoin energy usage is growing exponentially and it will outpace the world's ability to produce it in a few years. (Conventional or Alternative)

* That means either bitcoin uses so much electricity it raises the price for everyone.*
* Also the world will eventually just ban new mining operations (as China is already doing),
which will centralize control of bitcoin mining to only the elite few with the political connections to keep the power connected
at the expense of the surrounding people and environment. *
At that point Bitcoin becomes no better than centralized banking.  :P
Politician says block any new transactions from these address and the bitcoin miners comply or their power get cut off.

Decentralization is a major factor in a service staying out of government control ,
this insane energy waste centralizes bitcoin mining even more and gives Governments
the leverage they need to control the bitcoin miners and which transactions are processed. :P
Somewhere out there Satoshi is shedding a tear for the corruption of his dream.

Yep, this is not Bitcoin problem (and Ethereum will move on PoS). The problem lies in old methods of electricity production

Partly, but what a lot people tend to ignore is that mining equipment will only become faster and more energy efficient. Right now we have had years of explosive network growth that came with explosive energy consumption. What we are working towards is more explosive network growth, but with less energy consumption. Overall the energy consumption will still increase, but by far not in the way the consumption has been increasing in the last years.

I am even sure (it might even be happening already) that at some point the heat that mining farms generate will be turned into energy, or at least get sold to near villages to have them warm up their houses and whatnot. In current time and day waste doesn't exist anymore. Waste is waste when you don't do anything to have it work for you. If other industries manage to perfectly reuse heat, why won't mining farms be able to do so?

I think that's a valid point you raised there.
It consumes a lot of power.

Not too high, the fiat currency requires more energy resources i guess.
You need only electricity to mine bitcoin and ethereum. But fiat currency, you need many kinds of resources.

initially i did the maths. but then noticed the totals were so low it wasnt even worth including

just imagine it a room of just 1000 asics (i could fit that many in my living room) so lighting is not even a decimal in comparison to 1000 ASICs
(1000*1.3kw(asic)      1*38w(bulb)) = 1300038w/h
2.5m asics +lighting =3250095000watts/h = 3,250,095kw/h = 3,250.095mw/h = 3.250095gw/h = 0.003250095tw/h = 28.4708322tw/year

each farm only needs 1 PC so thats at most 500w/pc.. screw it ill be generous. lets say 4 PC's as backups or for the guy to play solitaire on while bored
and lets say 20 pools thats 80 pc's to actually monitor the asics. thats 0.0003504tw/year

so in total that still does not change 28.47 to anything more than 28.4711826 which still rounds to 28.47.. so as i said not worth including

Basically, technological developments are made to save existing power and technology a breakthrough that can be renewed, as well as technology in blockchain that is now widely used by some companies.