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Title: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: retrend on January 25, 2014, 02:15:33 AM http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25861717
Refusing to give customers the cash unless they provide an adequate reason. People suitably unimpressed at having less control of their money in a bank than they thought. Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: meanig on January 25, 2014, 02:23:36 AM Banks in the UK have had cash withdrawal policies like this for years. Getting out anything over £500 is a pain.
Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: lucaso on January 25, 2014, 02:31:08 AM Such policy is just good for money - bank money. But I think you could find a bank in UK that doesn't have such policy, so in case like that I would change my bank - instantly.
To be honest its same for Bitcoin, miners can confirm your transaction when they decide you paid enough fee. Intention is same. Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: HairyMaclairy on January 25, 2014, 02:39:35 AM My grandmother had Parkinson's disease (reduced her ability to think clearly) and was nearly scammed out of her savings by cold callers. Only the family intervened in time.
There do need to be protections for people with low mental ability. Nigerian scams still take in 100s of millions every year. There are a lot of dumb people out there that need protecting. HSBC overstepped the mark here though. It's a tough balance to achieve. Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: empoweoqwj on January 25, 2014, 03:00:08 AM http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25861717 Refusing to give customers the cash unless they provide an adequate reason. People suitably unimpressed at having less control of their money in a bank than they thought. Banks are funny. They don't get the concept of it being our money not theirs ..... another good reason to eliminate them, especially HSBC. Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: 2bfree on January 25, 2014, 03:15:02 AM http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25861717 Refusing to give customers the cash unless they provide an adequate reason. People suitably unimpressed at having less control of their money in a bank than they thought. Banks are funny. They don't get the concept of it being our money not theirs ..... another good reason to eliminate them, especially HSBC. Let me break it to you it's not your money it's their money and if they want they will take it and not give it to you! It happened over and over and over again! This is why I don't keep money in the bank just the bare minimum I know dozens of people where the bank just took the money and said p#@$# off! I'm not kidding! Think it can't happen in the UK, then remember this post in a few years. Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: empoweoqwj on January 25, 2014, 03:49:42 AM http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25861717 Refusing to give customers the cash unless they provide an adequate reason. People suitably unimpressed at having less control of their money in a bank than they thought. Banks are funny. They don't get the concept of it being our money not theirs ..... another good reason to eliminate them, especially HSBC. Let me break it to you it's not your money it's their money and if they want they will take it and not give it to you! It happened over and over and over again! This is why I don't keep money in the bank just the bare minimum I know dozens of people where the bank just took the money and said p#@$# off! I'm not kidding! Think it can't happen in the UK, then remember this post in a few years. No its legally my money. Banks just like to think its theirs. Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: aminorex on January 25, 2014, 03:51:44 AM http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25861717 Refusing to give customers the cash unless they provide an adequate reason. People suitably unimpressed at having less control of their money in a bank than they thought. Banks are funny. They don't get the concept of it being our money not theirs ..... another good reason to eliminate them, especially HSBC. Let me break it to you it's not your money it's their money and if they want they will take it and not give it to you! It happened over and over and over again! This is why I don't keep money in the bank just the bare minimum I know dozens of people where the bank just took the money and said p#@$# off! I'm not kidding! Think it can't happen in the UK, then remember this post in a few years. No its legally my money. Banks just like to think its theirs. Whose name is on it? Bank of empoweoqwj? Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: empoweoqwj on January 25, 2014, 03:57:59 AM http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25861717 Refusing to give customers the cash unless they provide an adequate reason. People suitably unimpressed at having less control of their money in a bank than they thought. Banks are funny. They don't get the concept of it being our money not theirs ..... another good reason to eliminate them, especially HSBC. Let me break it to you it's not your money it's their money and if they want they will take it and not give it to you! It happened over and over and over again! This is why I don't keep money in the bank just the bare minimum I know dozens of people where the bank just took the money and said p#@$# off! I'm not kidding! Think it can't happen in the UK, then remember this post in a few years. No its legally my money. Banks just like to think its theirs. Whose name is on it? Bank of empoweoqwj? So legally you don't own the money you have in a bank. Is that what you are saying? Show me a law saying that. Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: tabnloz on January 25, 2014, 05:11:17 AM http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25861717 Refusing to give customers the cash unless they provide an adequate reason. People suitably unimpressed at having less control of their money in a bank than they thought. Banks are funny. They don't get the concept of it being our money not theirs ..... another good reason to eliminate them, especially HSBC. Let me break it to you it's not your money it's their money and if they want they will take it and not give it to you! It happened over and over and over again! This is why I don't keep money in the bank just the bare minimum I know dozens of people where the bank just took the money and said p#@$# off! I'm not kidding! Think it can't happen in the UK, then remember this post in a few years. No its legally my money. Banks just like to think its theirs. Whose name is on it? Bank of empoweoqwj? So legally you don't own the money you have in a bank. Is that what you are saying? Show me a law saying that. I'm guessing he means a Cyprus style event. Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: Peter R on January 25, 2014, 05:43:05 AM So legally you don't own the money you have in a bank. Is that what you are saying? Show me a law saying that. You certainly don't own the money used to purchase any GICs you hold with your bank, and you don't really even own the money in your checking account--you just have an agreement with the bank that you are guaranteed cash on "demand" provided you give the bank sufficient time to prepare any large withdrawals you may request. When you deposit money at the bank, the asset side of the bank's balance sheet increases by an amount equal to the cash you turned over, while the liability side of their balance sheet increases by the same amount, reflecting the bank's obligation to you. If the bank goes bust, you just become an unsecured creditor in the bankruptcy proceedings (albeit insured against loss to some extent by the FDIC, but that's really a separate issue). Our fractional reserve system can only function if the money you deposit legally becomes the bank's asset, so that the bank has the right to lend it out and accept the risk of loss should the loans go sour. Also, if it was your money, you'd have to pay the banks to take care of it. Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: Lethn on January 25, 2014, 08:40:52 AM Bitcoin user not affected :D
p.s. I'm calling a bank run scare, somethings definitely up if the other banks start behaving the same way, it's going to start becoming more and more difficult to get your money out because the system is collapsing in on itself and everybody in charge doesn't want people to know. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_run Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: knightcoin on January 25, 2014, 10:05:00 AM money printer lp0 on fire ... ;D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lp0_on_fire Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: pening on January 25, 2014, 12:48:16 PM Bitcoin user not affected :D p.s. I'm calling a bank run scare, somethings definitely up if the other banks start behaving the same way, it's going to start becoming more and more difficult to get your money out because the system is collapsing in on itself and everybody in charge doesn't want people to know. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_run Then you'd be alarmist and un-informed. It quite normal in UK banks to ask you to notify them of large cash withdrawals in advance. Seems the only issue here is the bank has made some internal procedure change and not properly communicated it to bank staff, and a few (come on, three stories for one of the largest banks) have found staff applying the procedure oddly. The root of this is that banks don't like cash and like to have vast stacks of cash at branch "just in case". Its a pain in the arse for them, they'd much rather you move money around electronically and make it easy to do so. Most allow instant inter-bank transfers for free. And trying to turn Bitcoin to cash in the UK... doubt localbitcoins can back a £10k withdrawal. Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: LiteCoinGuy on January 25, 2014, 01:12:52 PM and that is why there will never be a bank run - they just dont hand out your money - sick world ::) . these laws are made for the next crysis.
Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: MatTheCat on January 25, 2014, 01:24:28 PM No its legally my money. Banks just like to think its theirs. It is legally the banks money. You have loaned it to them and are relying on their legal obligation to pay you it back upon demand, but the goalposts of their obligation are liable to shift. Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: h3rlihy on January 25, 2014, 01:28:02 PM What do you even need cash to pay for? I have never had to withdraw a large amount of cash.. ever...
Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: knightcoin on January 25, 2014, 01:37:15 PM £1
ow w such measure Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: lnternet on January 25, 2014, 02:47:55 PM Proof of spending. I see a new alt in the making.
But yeah this is more or less normal. One time I've been to 4 branches of the same bank in one day to withdraw the amount I needed. They often don't have 10k at hand (or they do, but would risk running low in the evening or before the next schedules cash delivery). Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: skivrmt on January 25, 2014, 03:53:16 PM Banks in the UK have had cash withdrawal policies like this for years. Getting out anything over £500 is a pain. Many people don't realize banks in the US are not obligated to give you a large amount of cash either, they can simply refuse, even if have a large balance with them. They is no law on the books, they can't legally make you answer questions to why you need the cash, but they can simply say, no, we don't have that much on us. Nothing you can do about it except request a smaller amount. Sometimes its $5k, sometimes its $10k, varies bank by bank and by individual branch with cash reserves on hand. Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: BreathOfZen on January 25, 2014, 04:11:30 PM http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25861717 Is the answer of "I will keep the money in a safe because I don't trust banks that impose such a low withdrawal limit." A good answer, or a bad one?Refusing to give customers the cash unless they provide an adequate reason. People suitably unimpressed at having less control of their money in a bank than they thought. Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: delphic on January 25, 2014, 04:16:04 PM So legally you don't own the money you have in a bank. Is that what you are saying? Show me a law saying that. You certainly don't own the money used to purchase any GICs you hold with your bank, and you don't really even own the money in your checking account--you just have an agreement with the bank that you are guaranteed cash on "demand" provided you give the bank sufficient time to prepare any large withdrawals you may request. When you deposit money at the bank, the asset side of the bank's balance sheet increases by an amount equal to the cash you turned over, while the liability side of their balance sheet increases by the same amount, reflecting the bank's obligation to you. If the bank goes bust, you just become an unsecured creditor in the bankruptcy proceedings (albeit insured against loss to some extent by the FDIC, but that's really a separate issue). Our fractional reserve system can only function if the money you deposit legally becomes the bank's asset, so that the bank has the right to lend it out and accept the risk of loss should the loans go sour. Also, if it was your money, you'd have to pay the banks to take care of it. But the trick the banks in the UK also pull is to charge you for them taking care of the money you gave them. Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: fluidjax on January 25, 2014, 04:19:31 PM Legally... Legally... None of this is legal, there is no case law, there is little statute. even if sued, banks rarely go to court they get very good lawyers and tie you up in knots and possibly, much later, offer a settlement.
Ownership doesnt change when you put money in a bank, 'posession' changes. All you armchair lawyers make me laugh. Like everything now its just safest to stay under the radar, withdraw amonts below trigger values and behave yourself... Just like they want you to do. Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: hilariousandco on January 25, 2014, 04:33:31 PM http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25861717 Refusing to give customers the cash unless they provide an adequate reason. People suitably unimpressed at having less control of their money in a bank than they thought. Banks are funny. They don't get the concept of it being our money not theirs ..... another good reason to eliminate them, especially HSBC. Let me break it to you it's not your money it's their money and if they want they will take it and not give it to you! Of course it's your money, you just willingly lend it to them so they can do what they like with it. Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: GigaCoin on January 25, 2014, 04:40:42 PM Disgusting, all the more reason people should own their money (crypto) rather than rely on banks.
Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: runam0k on January 25, 2014, 05:17:50 PM Fuck that, I would immediately close the account and move the funds elsewhere.
Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: hilariousandco on January 25, 2014, 05:35:52 PM Fuck that, I would immediately close the account and move the funds elsewhere. People should've done that already when this happened: http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/jul/03/hsbc-money-laundering-settlement-approved Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: FlappySocks on January 25, 2014, 08:51:08 PM Another story here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/experts/article-2540445/What-maximum-money-I-withdraw-HSBC.html#ixzz2rFfQsBGm
Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: guybrushthreepwood on January 25, 2014, 09:02:21 PM What do you even need cash to pay for? I have never had to withdraw a large amount of cash.. ever... You know, stuff and things. Stuff and things cost money. Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: tabnloz on January 25, 2014, 10:32:40 PM This comes on the back of news that an Asian report that said HSBC has a massive black hole on their books, assets worth tens of billions less than they were. The report advised stock holders to sell shares
Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: Peter R on January 25, 2014, 11:09:12 PM Ownership doesnt change when you put money in a bank, 'posession' changes. All you armchair lawyers make me laugh. So if I walk into a bank and deposit $1,000 into a GIC, I still own that cash? Of course not, this is why it's called "buying a GIC." You give them cash now in exchange for a promise to get cash + interest at some point in the future. It is less clear when we're talking about chequing accounts, but I'd still argue that what you "own" is a promise that the bank will give you cash on demand, and not the actual cash. The problem is that the word "money" is ambiguous. Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: Carlton Banks on January 26, 2014, 12:30:26 AM Ownership doesnt change when you put money in a bank, 'posession' changes. All you armchair lawyers make me laugh. So if I walk into a bank and deposit $1,000 into a GIC, I still own that cash? Of course not, this is why it's called "buying a GIC." You give them cash now in exchange for a promise to get cash + interest at some point in the future. It is less clear when we're talking about chequing accounts, but I'd still argue that what you "own" is a promise that the bank will give you cash on demand, and not the actual cash. The problem is that the word "money" is ambiguous. It looks like "demand" has become ambiguous too, conditional upon proof of the purpose. And if they don't like the proof, or the purpose, you can't have the money ("the money" now seems more correct than "your money"). It makes the word "promise" start to look a little ambiguous too. Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: sgbett on January 26, 2014, 01:38:42 AM Banks in the UK have had cash withdrawal policies like this for years. Getting out anything over £500 is a pain. nah i've took around £2k a few times not even a flinch, I do anticipate there to be a 'red flag' value but I just haven't hit it yet. in answer to the "who needs that much money" poster, if you have to get money from A to B in one day then cash is king... Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: marcus_of_augustus on January 26, 2014, 03:33:43 AM ... the cash notes technically are not owned by you either, even if you have them in your hand legitimately.
Take a look on the front, it says right there on it that it is debt belonging to the Bank of England. ... the rabbit hole of the monetary deception is very deep once you choose to go down it. The whole system is one layer of debt built on top of another. Get this in your head, they let YOU OWN NOTHING. Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: francisp on January 26, 2014, 06:09:23 PM http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25861717 Is the answer of "I will keep the money in a safe because I don't trust banks that impose such a low withdrawal limit." A good answer, or a bad one?Refusing to give customers the cash unless they provide an adequate reason. People suitably unimpressed at having less control of their money in a bank than they thought. Considering that interest rates are basically (and artificially) zero now, the only reason to have money in a bank is convenience. So you have to decide if that convenience is greater than the inconvenience that the money is no longer in your possession. Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: thaaanos on January 26, 2014, 09:33:56 PM Sounds familiar with some bitcoin exchanges here and there? Just saying...
Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: countryfree on January 27, 2014, 09:32:48 PM It's even more difficult in France, Italy or Sweden. Banks make less and less cash transactions, and advise all their customers to use credit cards and wire payments. It's part of the game against money laundering and tax evasion. I think in Italy it's illegal to make a payment of more than 1,000 € in cash.
Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: qbits on January 27, 2014, 10:54:42 PM So legally you don't own the money you have in a bank. Is that what you are saying? Show me a law saying that. I will explain: Obligatory Law which is with us since Roman times in more or less the same form, defines this kind of relationship in simple terms: 1 Upon deposit you hand over money to the bank. The bank owns that money. It's banks money. 2 At the same time bank hand over a "promissory note" to you which roughly reads as: bank promises to hand over (deposited) money to depositor at his/her request at any time. This note may be a simple bank statement. So money belongs to the bank and you have their obligation to return it at your request. You don't own that money anymore. You own an obligation. Whether or not they deliver on their promise/obligation or not remains to be seen when you actually request to have your money back. Of course if they do not (they reneg) then you have a legal recourse to have a court force them. However if a bank fails / goes bankrupt, then your claims become void as the obligation ceased to exist when bank = (legal) person "died" that is bankruptcy procedure ended. Most countries force commercial banks to insure their depositors up to certain amount for just such an event thus allowing depositors to feel secure about their deposits and making bank runs less likely. Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: knightcoin on January 27, 2014, 11:03:18 PM So legally you don't own the money you have in a bank. Is that what you are saying? Show me a law saying that. I will explain: Obligatory Law which is with us since Roman times in more or less the same form, defines this kind of relationship in simple terms: 1 Upon deposit you hand over money to the bank. The bank owns that money. It's banks money. 2 At the same time bank hand over a "promissory note" to you which roughly reads as: bank promises to hand over (deposited) money to depositor at his/her request at any time. This note may be a simple bank statement. So money belongs to the bank and you have their obligation to return it at your request. You don't own that money anymore. You own an obligation. Whether or not they deliver on their promise/obligation or not remains to be seen when you actually request to have your money back. Of course if they do not (they reneg) then you have a legal recourse to have a court force them. However if a bank fails / goes bankrupt, then your claims become void as the obligation ceased to exist when bank = (legal) person "died" that is bankruptcy procedure ended. Most countries force commercial banks to insure their depositors up to certain amount for just such an event thus allowing depositors to feel secure about their deposits and making bank runs less likely. the money in account record belongs to the owner ... Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: knightcoin on January 27, 2014, 11:04:47 PM So legally you don't own the money you have in a bank. Is that what you are saying? Show me a law saying that. I will explain: Obligatory Law which is with us since Roman times in more or less the same form, defines this kind of relationship in simple terms: 1 Upon deposit you hand over money to the bank. The bank owns that money. It's banks money. 2 At the same time bank hand over a "promissory note" to you which roughly reads as: bank promises to hand over (deposited) money to depositor at his/her request at any time. This note may be a simple bank statement. So money belongs to the bank and you have their obligation to return it at your request. You don't own that money anymore. You own an obligation. Whether or not they deliver on their promise/obligation or not remains to be seen when you actually request to have your money back. Of course if they do not (they reneg) then you have a legal recourse to have a court force them. However if a bank fails / goes bankrupt, then your claims become void as the obligation ceased to exist when bank = (legal) person "died" that is bankruptcy procedure ended. Most countries force commercial banks to insure their depositors up to certain amount for just such an event thus allowing depositors to feel secure about their deposits and making bank runs less likely. the money in account record belongs to the owner ... if you not agree .. F**k .. does not matter if you are Islamic bank or not Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: RenegadeMind on January 27, 2014, 11:07:23 PM So legally you don't own the money you have in a bank. Is that what you are saying? Show me a law saying that. CHALLENGE ACCEPTED~! :D https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2260952 More on the topic with commentary relevant to Bitcoin (CoInvalidation <-- this is the proper spelling): http://www.dgcmagazine.com/what-a-landmark-legal-case-from-mid-1700s-scotland-tells-us-about-the-fungibility-and-the-very-nature-of-money-and-why-we-should-care-in-light-of-the-recent-coinvalidation-controversy/ The BANK owns your money. Not you. Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: knightcoin on January 27, 2014, 11:12:19 PM ;D luv to smash bones ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjvzJO-6ESc Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: RenegadeMind on January 27, 2014, 11:56:08 PM ;D luv to smash bones ;D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjvzJO-6ESc It's over an hour and a half. Got a tl;dw? Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: techgeek on January 28, 2014, 01:27:21 AM So legally you don't own the money you have in a bank. Is that what you are saying? Show me a law saying that. CHALLENGE ACCEPTED~! :D https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2260952 More on the topic with commentary relevant to Bitcoin (CoInvalidation <-- this is the proper spelling): http://www.dgcmagazine.com/what-a-landmark-legal-case-from-mid-1700s-scotland-tells-us-about-the-fungibility-and-the-very-nature-of-money-and-why-we-should-care-in-light-of-the-recent-coinvalidation-controversy/ The BANK owns your money. Not you. This is on point. Hence fractional reserve lending. Just go watch the four horse men on youtube. Title: Re: HSBC restricting cash withdrawals in UK Post by: Erdogan on January 28, 2014, 01:56:07 AM Maybe this was a technicality or some bank serf overzealous to lick the leg of his master.
Anyway, if or when there is a bank run, things like limits to payments, withdrawal and technical glitches in the money dispensing machines will be the first sign. |