Bitcoin Forum

http://btcnetwork.com/bitcoinclosed.png

This is a real problem in the Bitcoin community that I feel needs to be discussed.

I remember when I first found out about Bitcoin, it was just early spring time this year, right before Bitcoin hit the big time. Bitcoin was worth 0.85 USD, and the difficulty was so low that my first day mining with a GPU I mined 8 coins with a single 5870 that wasn't even overclocked (ahh the good old days) :)

The Bitcoin forums at that time were a completely different environment. There was a real sense of openness and adventure. People welcome each others ideas. Free thought was encouraged! It was an exciting time.

I know this sounds like I am reminiscing about the good old days but this was only like six months ago! I don't know what happened!?

There is no openess, there is no encouragement. Free thought!? You better keep it to yourself man.

You have got this superiority disease that seems to have infected nearly everyone - these Elitist Super geeks who think they are smarter than anyone, sitting up on their high horses and looking down at everyone. Trying to find new ways to exclude people and new ways to put them selves up on a pedestal

Then you have the trolls. Searching and Searching for an idea to squash, for some confidence to extinguish. is it Attack or be attacked? You really do not make yourself look better by putting down others. This bully mentality is disgusting.

On top of that you have the Pool Hop generation. The guys who have an entitlement complex.  The resentful Bitcoin youth that jumped on the band wagon when BTC was trading for $30 USD and now want to take every crumb that isnt nailed down. Listen fellas the Bitcoin world does not owe you anything.

I sympathize with the Bitcoin forum Mods and Admins I really do, you have a very hard job trying to keep this place under control, but as this forum is basically the epicenter of the Bitcoin world I do not agree with the newbie system. I think that we need to include as many people from outside as possible and not exclude them just because they got here late. I understand why we have this system and the purpose it is supposed to be serving is good but I personally believe it does more hard to Bitcoin than good.

Bitcoin is Closed! - For most people this is what they think and feel, the people who are first hearing about Bitcoin today, and they come to the forums and start looking around , that banner "Bitcoin is closed" this is how they feel and its hurting Bitcoin as a whole.

Thank you for your time in reading this, and if I offended you I am sorry. I love Bitcoin, I truly do and like many of you I have a lot of time, and money invested and I really want to see Bitcoin succeed. This thread was created to get people thinking about the good of Bitcoin and the good in themselves.

I happily invite all input, but please use good judgement and answer as the mature adult you are, I do now want this to turn into an argument.

+3.14159265...  I have nothing intelligent to add to this.

Hey there,

I can see from your writing, that you have Bitcoins best intentions at heart and you want to see it grow. I do agree with you that the forums are not what they used to be, but I think theres a major flaw in your point

Forums != Bitcoin

Why? Because your focusing on only these forums for your perspective.
I just spent the past 2 days at OVC11 conference in nyc presenting, advocating, and discussing bitcoin and the future.
The overwhelming outsider turnout mixed in the amazing, 'wow' factor and ideas that came out of the meetings showed me that Bitcoin is moving past these forums.

Our jobs are to take bitcoin mainstream, and I am doing everything I can to make that happen. After meeting with mainstream businesses, lawyers and other bitcoin business owners, we have big plans coming your way very soon.

The forums do not define Bitcoin, neither should you.

BITCOIN IS OPEN FOR BUSINESS BABY!!

+1!

I agree completely, and it is very refreshing to hear this type of talk. Thank you. :)

I also see exactly what your saying, there is no community feeling.  No encouragement like you said.

I see thread after thread of people announcing their new webpage devoted to bitcoin in some way, then every post after that is telling how horrible it is, or everything they've done wrong..   People just jumping down the throat of others for entertainment..

Trolls everywhere,  where is the friendlyness ? or help? or god forbid encouragement for helping bitcoin go mainstream with all the projects lifting off these days ?

Thank You! 

This community is great, and it will always be. The trolls will come and go, and every forum has to deal with growing pains.

I strongly believe we need to stop saying this forum is our 'community 'for the sake of Bitcoin because it isn't.
Bitcoin is far bigger than these forums. In fact, most Bitcoin owners, traders, users, and advocates that I work with are not even on these forums.

I love the forums, and will always, but for the love of Bitcoin lets fuckin grow!!!  :D

100x yes! It's refreshing to hear good things out of peoples mouths around here for once!

As the founder of the newbies forum innovation, I show no remorse in the sharing of my idea. This forum would of otherwise suffered a month long plague of spam from the SA forums and other dissidents.

Are we ready to open the curtain to everyone including a large majority of people with ill intentions? I'll leave that decision up to you.

A couple of things I'd like to add to discussion:

If you're not a merchant or a programmer, there is very little to 'contribute'.  You feel kinda excluded from what's going on because a lot of stuff is over your head.  Recently with the huge influx of people with an extra gpu or two, you got a whole lot of people who could feel excluded.

To curb aggressiveness, there needs to be an outlet on the forums where non-merchants and non-programmers can contribute... something.

Let's face it: There's a whole lot of idle manpower here.  I don't know how it could be harnessed or where it could be pointed, but all it would take is some leaders stepping up (from either the programmers or merchants) to delegate other community projects.  Things like writing letters or emails to various groups that the merchants or programmers want to stir up interest with.... a few thousand letters from people all around the world is -something- rather than -nothing-.

Hell I don't know, could be anything, I'm not a merchant or programmer so I don't have my finger on that pulse.  But there's a lot of manpower here... someone just needs to do something with it.

Thanks for your post, OP. Some good sentiment there and I fully encourage the optimistic tone.

My thoughts on this are as follows: Bitcoin is not just a new weird geeky technology. Bitcoin is not the new tablet, or 3D tv, or server protocol. Bitcoin is in fact a philosophic and economic phenomenon which drastically challenges existing systems of thought and social behavior, internationally. It cuts to the core of how humans operate in the world, and the ramifications of Bitcoin--if it succeeds--will be truly profound. It is a system of highly leveraged effect. New people will get rich, new people will get poor, structures will shift, and various opportunities will rise and fall for various people. It sounds cliche, but Bitcoin has the potential to fundamentally change the course of history and this is awe-inspiring to some, threatening to others, and unbelievable to most.

Because of this leveraged effect, Bitcoin will long be highly contentious. And while we should encourage optimism and community spirit, we should at the same time realize that the external pressure bearing down upon Bitcoin will be immense. We should expect the conflict and tumult.

Stay civil, stay mature, stay humble, and stay rational. Bitcoin kicks serious ass, and I think most of us know this.

Be the change, man.

Do you think there is a great leader sitting on this forum, waiting for your message? :)

And now he's all, like, "Oh, yeah, right! I have to lead people into battle."

You want things change - start changing them.

I'm familiar enough of my skillset to know organizing people is not one of them.

I was just putting it out there for further discussion.

If you see someone discouraging free thought, PM me and I'll look into it. I might not be allowed to delete the post, but I can at least talk some sense into them. I've needed to do it before.

Sorry, not much we can do about that. :(

Report those. We might not be able to do anything about the individual post, but we can ban them when we start seeing a pattern.

On a side note, I apologize for letting smoothie go on as long as he did. I was really hoping that I could change him, since he did have good ideas.

You can blame the pools that don't prevent pool hopping for that.
I wish that there was more that could be done about that, sorry.
Thanks, we try.
I agree. The newbie system has outlived its usefulness. There was a time that it was needed, but not anymore.

Thanks for this. I agree completely that things are broken, and something needs to be done. However, I also feel that this might just solve itself thanks to things like our stackexchange site.

You said all, is what I always wanted to talk, and I believe many people think the same.

It's time to change if we want the Bitcoin win the world, these attitudes have to be different.

Many Brazilians are afraid to enter the forum, and be attacked for asking newbie questions, this has to end.

Just curious, why the title [Bitcoin is Closed. If you were cool enough you would already be here!] and not [Bitcoin is Closed! - For most people this is what they think and feel!]?

Besides the Forum <> Bitcoin observation, think about the endgame: everyone everywhere uses Bitcoin. Are we going to sit around being excited about it? Are we all going to have one big conversation? Will it all be on one forum? Of course not. We aren't there yet, but the process of wide use and the distribution of the conversation is already begun.

I really really loved this place a year ago. And it only 'sucks' now because it was completely successful.

thank you so much to everyone that responded.
Immanuel I am not insulting your newbie system, I understand why it's in place and its like a lesser of two evils type of thing to me, Im not criticizing you for it at all. I really respect the mods and admins of this forum.

and to johnj: I think anyone can do something to benefit bitcoin, even if you have to post a comment on facebook, or twitter, or even tell everyone you know. Heck if anyone wants to benefit Bitcoin but does not know what to do send them my way. I run two Bitcoin related websites, which are both free sites with the sole purpose of spreading Bitcoin to the outside world, and I need help generating content and doing all kinds of stuff.



I must say if anyone ever writes a book about Bitcoin this should be the foreword: !!! :) thanks for this evoorhees
this was awesome!


very well said. To everyone else its nice to hear from others what I have already been thinking.  I think the most apt statement that I have heard from many of you is the Bitcoin forums are not Bitcoin. That is an excellent point, but one we really have to think about. Some how these forums became the name and face of Bitcoin and we really need to rise above just these forums in order to move forward. It's hard to put a label on what this has become but the forums have become the lifeblood of the Bitcoin community and although this is the launching pad we have somehow found ourselves defined as well as limited by it. Look at that thread someone started "What did you do while the forums where down" Its pathetic almost to think how small this amazing scene really is - that one forum has so much impact on so many people. I read somewhere that there are 400k users on this forum. Wow. In any case I thank you all for your input it really got me thinking and put a smile on my face.

thank you for that comment, this is the kind of stuff that needs to be talked about.
It got your attention didn't it? :)
I understand what your saying. However it's pretty obvious due to many reasons Bitcoin is stuck in a rut right now and I believe this is the perfect time to seize the moment and rise above all of this.

I feel it also. It used to be much more welcoming here. Now we have lots of members who just spend all their effort making disparaging posts. Some of whom don't even own bitcoins. What happened to all the posts about ideas for BTC, or fun projects?

Cablepair this forum is "under moderated" by design. If you want other type of forum they are popping around, like for example this one: http://bitcoin.org.uk, that is more moderated. Different people will want different styles of forums. Its all good.

What is wrong with the newbie system? It keeps out the already ridiculous amount of trolls.  I went through it, so did everyone here. If you are truly interested in bitcoin and don't want to post some spam it's fairly easy to get through and get on to the boards.

So you are saying you want MORE junk than is already here to automatically come through? This makes no sense.
There is no sense of elitism in properly filtering out spammers and 1 time posters.  Even with that system in place a lot of accounts get through that APPEAR to be here just to cause distress / arguments and not contribute much.

I don't even hold that many bitcoins - I just am 100% behind the idea of it - or the next level of it. Bitcoins represent true financial freedom and that is a good thing - even though it is not 100% - it's a damn good step in the right direction.

SA and the dissidents cause all the spam!

*posts a thread with nothing but a youtube link or a one-liner about governments being bad, moves on to next thread*

This under-moderating style also helps keep the reddit/slashdot-esque groupthink from happening too much, which is good.

Would you be so kind as to reread the previous 19 posts, then comment again without using a CosbyCoin reference?

I appreciate your feedback, but just FYI, I did not go through the newbie system that is a fairly new thing, but I am glad you brought that up. My problem is with the Bitcoin forums being presented/perceived as the heart of the Bitcoin world, because with the newbie system from that point of view looks like we are making people earn their way into the Bitcoin world which should not be so. As my friends have already pointed out above - we need to change this perception, the Bitcoin forums are not Bitcoin and it is perfectly acceptable to make people earn their way into a forum, but the unfortunate truth is the forums are seen by many as the heart and soul of Bitcoin.

thank you phinnaeus
isnt it great? as I am making my great point about the evils of the Newbie system some worm walks in and makes me think the newbie system should be stronger :(

But I accept it, because I believe Bitcoin is about freedom. Thank you for everyones posts I really appreciate all the great input.

Time for me to run talk to you gents later

The wild west of 21 century

The newbie system (locking you to the newbie forum for the first 5 posts) is a little bit counter-productive to growing this community, IMO.

Why I am not surprised someone like you said this?

I know this is just your opinion, but I just wanted to let you know how wrong you are.  With how Bitcoin users treat each other in general, how they treat each other when it comes to the future of Bitcoin itself, I think they "let people in" too quick.

In fact, if people here are not pro-more security measures and slowing down the growth of Bitcoin but all about "we need more vendors and make it easier for Grandma to get into Bitcoin", I am going to go with those people need to head back to the newbie section of a hacked forum for round 2, as you didn't learn anything the first time around.

+1 on that. I hear you, and I feel the same way. I'm not a newbie anymore, but even so it feels like sometime I'm struggling to get some answers out, because it's like a secret society that I'm trying to punch my way into.

I hope your call will be heard!

Mmmm... Pi

I tell you what happened: MONEY happened! GREED took over, and ENVY. HATE surfaces, people RAGE, BITCH, MOAN, ACCUSE, INSULT.

It plain sux.

Your kidding right?!?

Everyone, well almost everyone, starts getting their feet wet in Bitcoin mining by starting with CPU mining.  What does the Bitcoin community do?  They get rid of the CPU coin generation in the client!  And they call everyone a moron for trying to CPU mine.  That is a usual first step for someone interested in Bitcoin and that step is opposed by almost everyone.

How can that be considered allowing free thought much less encouraging?
My 0.00000002 BTC worth,
Sam

I still try to keep a friendly attitude, ignore the trolls and insults and just add a positive comment or constructive idea / criticism, check out sites/software and give feedback. I also use the "ignore" feature, it really makes the forums a better experience and some threads become quite empty ;)

I kinda feel like fighting windmills here, but I'll keep at it. We're going to maneuver through this shit like we maneuvered through all the other shit.

There's always a dark valley or something to go through before you hit the light. No free lunch.

Haha, indeed. It happened when Bitcoins started being worth non-trivial amounts. Seeing how we are returning to past valuations, it will be interesting to see if the climate changes.

While what you say is true, I must say johnj's post was really motivational for me. It also offered an explanation why there's so much negative stuff going on here (people just don't know what to do or how to help). It's absolutely legitimate to put this out there for others to pick up. It doesn't mean he shouldn't, but it also doesn't mean you or I shouldn't.

Do you think people are born leaders? How do people become leaders?

Also: even more important than the leader is the first follower.

I wasn't around in those times, but the problem to me seems to be the almost total lack of moderation. I say almost, because I just got a post deleted and cussed out by a mod, lol. The problem seems that just general trolling, spamming, and throwing out just bad information seems to run rampant throughout the forums. Many posts get OT very fast due to some of these trolls, other trolls just spam the thread list with useless garbage that serves no other purpose than to up their post count and troll people into responding (smoothie is one of those people).

The whole forum community feels more like a 15yr 4chan community, rather than a community of programmers, investors, and economists as it should be. I was actually shocked to find out that I had a post deleted for posting a link to a shock site (it had porn), in reference to a thread in another forum here. I didn't think there was any moderation at all up until that point. Now I know that mods do moderate somewhat, but it is far from enough. I'm not saying they should be complete Nazis, but there is quite a bit of fat in among the different posters that really needs to be trimmed.

Just my 2 Cents.

Edit: After I posted this, the first thread under this was "Why don't black people use Bitcoins?" Which is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

I believe that part of this community is attracted to the not-so-legal discussions that roam free here.

I'm not going to lie. I find most of these forums to be a cesspool, the only reason I stay is because among all the shit, there are still a few gold pieces to be found. However, it is an awful lot of excrement to wade through to find.

Before the Bitcoin Boom, it might have been fine to have very laxed moderation, since the only people who were attracted to the site were the people I mentioned about that should be here and posting. Since it gained attention, with no help from Silk Road I might add, moderation should be more heavily monitored.

Dumb shits deserve to post just as much as the smart shits.   Grow up and discuss things.  Or use the ignore user button.  Or use other forums.  Or keep complaining on this forum, but sleep knowing you are now part of the problem unless you want to do something about it.

/b/ is the endgame of complete un-moderation.  It performed some amusing feats along the way, but at this point it's just a wasteland.

IMHO un-moderation only works with small communities where everyone knows each other.  Once you grow beyond that, you have to get involved.  That doesn't mean swinging a banhammer around every day.  All it takes is someone to PM people when they're going too far, lock threads when they drift too far from the forum's purpose, and generally play peacemaker from time to time.

Even when that works, the tight-knit community just loses that great feel once it gets too big.  I've been through this many times.

+1 about greed, then envy, then hate...  Things get ugly when money is involved, especially when it's so dynamic that people are winning and losing a lot fast.  I think it's starting to improve, though the scandals will keep the bad vibes going for a while.

I hope that as the price declines the speculators and cheerleaders and scammers and the people who're encouraging and trolling all of the above will gradually wash out and we can get back to trying to make a real currency, and perhaps even an economy.  It's going to take months or years of people trying to create another bubble to Get Rich Quick, or recoup their losses, but hopefully we'll get there.  I'm a bear (I'll not rehash it all here, but it's all in my post history), and I hope that as BTC devalues back down toward its fundamental value (cents, not dollars), the community will improve.

Agree wholeheartedly OP, but I just want to say that there are many better options for discussing bitcoin and they will eventually supersede this forum in importance now that it's been spun off from the main site.

Seriously, try the bitcoin subreddit. Keeps up with the important news, has a reasonable trickle of new users asking interesting questions, and is generally more balanced and worthwhile than most of the stuff here.

Bitcoin will grow from here just like Google and will change the Financial Industry.

Please stay positive and on track. Things will eventually smooth out.