Bitcoin Forum

I know there are lot of advantages for sellers to accept Bitcoin. But what are the advantages of a white color byer. I just wanted to list. I am starting off here. Its good, if u add up your points...

1. Buyer's card data is not coming to the seller. So no chance of theft from merchant's end.

2. Buyer's anonymity. (I dont think it is a strong point to convince an average buyer. A tax payer does not care about revealing his identity.)

3. Recurring payment protection. Merchant cant enforce a recurring payment using a small checkbox tick.

Buyer can't get their money back if something goes wrong.

The last one is actually a very strong incentive for buyers to use Bitcoin.

Another one would be international usability without much of the hassle that other means of international payments come with.
If you've ever had to actually use e.g. Western Union, you know that it's not only expensive, but more important, hard work.

That is an advantage right ?

To the seller.

This is a big one for me. How many millions of people were potentially affected by the Target credit card hack last November/December? With bitcoins, it does not matter how inept or dishonest the seller is, neither they nor anybody who breaks into their data will be able to make fraudulent susequent purchases using my information.

Another benefit: very small or very large purchases can be made with equally low hassle and fees. You can buy that magic sword in your online game for half a cent, or you can buy a Lamborghini without having to get a bank manager to clear the withdrawal and fill out a ream of paperwork.

Ok.... but as I understand OP asked for Buyer's advantage. It is rather a Buyer's disadvantage.

- no restrictions on who can use it. I see this as very big; kids and others who can't get a bank card will hopefully be able to go into a shop and buy some "bitcoin credit" with cash, to make online payments. (This may not be an advantage to existing buyers, but it may create/allow *new* buyers)

- universal protocol; money stored in device. This will hopefully enable mind bogglingly quick internet payments; like Amazon's "1-click" buy but with any product on any website. (perhaps like KryptoKit)

Yes international usability is one big advantage for buyers. But it should not be put on as online payment alternative, as credits cards do support that as well. Rather a good example to convince normal people can be as follows...

Suppose a Chinese national will visit to Germany. In normal process he had to buy USD against CNY at some Chinese exchange. Check into germany and again exchange that USD against EUR to move easily in Germany. If he prefer to use Bitcoin, he can have the balance in his android mobile. Move into Germany and spend that BTC directly. No loss for forex commission. No hassle.

Here's one that will be added hopefully soon: the chance to have accounts that require say two out of three authorizations for a transaction to take place. For example any of two persons and a child, or any three company directors.

What are you trying to say ?

What is a "white color byer"?

Funny ....I guess the OP tried to say "white collar buyer".

Hehe. I get it now.  :D

This begs the question: How do the advantages of the white collar buyer compare to the advantages of the blue collar buyer? Or is the blue collar buyer disadvantaged?

First of all, I dont know if blue collar buyer is the opposite of white collar buyer. But whatever be the opposite, white collar buyers have certain characteristics...

1. They dont care about anonymity.

2. They wont like to risk a single penny. They will pay tax, but if they smell even little doubt about a merchant, they'll switch for the merchant having a government seal.

So, the advantages of a white collar buyer may not appear to be an advantage for a blue collar buyer and vice-versa.

Obviously OP meant "white color buyer", which is to be contrasted with "black color buyer" who is somebody doing a black market transaction. For the black market bitcoins are great because of their anonymity, but for people who are not doing illegal things that does not matter as much.

Sure they can, the same way as if they had paid cash: ask the merchant for a refund, and sue them if they don't provide one. Assuming, of course, that they're dealing with reputable businesses, or at least ones with a legal identity that can be named in a lawsuit. Why on Earth would they do business with them if that's not the case?

This is my personal experience.

I recently bought something on Tigerdirect and paid in Bitcoin. I hate to see my Bitcoin balance decrease so I went ahead and purchased the same amount of Bitcoin to offset the cost of my purchase after the fact.

The Bitcoins I purchased cost a lot less than they did at the time when I spent them. I ended up paying approximately $105 for an item that cost $115. This doesn't take into consideration that the coins I spent had already appreciated so it's hard to say how much I actually spent if you look at the larger picture. I've been dollar cost averaging since November when Bitcoin was $517.

Bitcoin offers the buyer the advantages of appreciating value. I buy more Bitcoin every chance I get.

I beg to disagree with your point of very small purchase. If u try to buy a magic sword in your online game with 2000 Satoshi, you probably need to pay 20,000 Satoshi as transaction fee. And then also it'll take week to confirm. So ultimately u'll defeat in the game because your enemy wont wait for a week to attack you.

Moral of the story: For micro transactions Bitcoin costs more than the transaction value and it is not instant. This is actually a disadvantage.

But for large transaction, I agree with what u have said.

Buyer should not have any advantages which are not given to the sellers as well. So everything is fair.

I wouldn't call that a disadvantage.
Let's just say Bitcoin isn't suitable for micro transactions, but the same applies to practically any other payment system like credit cards, Paypal and the like. Micropayment is just one of the areas Bitcoin doesn't cover.

Okay, for extremely small payments the bitcoin network itself is perhaps not the best idea, but there are payments which are very small which would not trigger a fee. And you could use systems built on top of bitcoin to make micropayments, like when you have a webwallet that allows fee-free transactions to other users of the webwallet. But then we can get into an argument over whether that is actually using bitcoins. Whatever.

Exactly, they can do it with their own credit system and allow the end user convert it to Bitcoin/FIAT eventually.

Off-chain is probably the best solution for micro payments. Either by a centralized web wallet, or just by buying a larger amount of credits from the service provider directly. E.g., you want to access a website where every page view costs BTC 0.00001, you send BTC 0.01 to the provider's address and can access his pages 1000 times with your payment address. That way, BTC could actually become an enabler for simple, quasi-anonymous micro payments.

If we do a person to person fiat exchange for a product with a stranger, chances are that you won't get your money back either.
Point invalid.

Instead of sending 0.01 BTC buyer can send 10 USD. The effect is same with FIAT. So how can it be an advantage ?

How do you instantly send 10 USD to a website? Quasi-anonymously on both ends? No registration required? With no means of charge-back (that's extremely important for any provider of digital services)? With absolute proof of payment? At a low price?
A simple Bitcoin transaction allows all of the above.

How do you instantly send 10 USD to a website?

When I buy domains using my credit card, I buy them almost instantly. For Bitcoin transaction buy needs to wait for confirmations.


Quasi-anonymously on both ends?

Anonymity is not required for a white collar buyer.


No registration required?

Registration is not required even for PayPal payments. Registration is part of a total application, not payment.


With no means of charge-back (that's extremely important for any provider of digital services)?

This is NOT a buyer's advantage.


With absolute proof of payment?

Credit card invoices are no less payment proof. The difference is, for Bitcoin, it is public.


At a low price?

For Bitcoin transaction network fee is required and for a low transaction amount this fee is significant. There is no individual transaction fee for a credit card payment unless u use PayPal or similar service rather than direct bank gateways. Credit Card service charge is applicable for holding a credit card itself.

Why? Domains are a service that can be cancelled immediately in the event of a double-spend, so there's no need for confirmations.

Try telling that to anyone who has had their identity stolen.

It is if the costs of chargeback fraud are being passed on to them (which they are). Why do you think so many merchants offer discounts for customers who pay cash?

Yes there is. It's just paid by the merchant, who passes the costs on to the customer.

I'd say, they're getting Bitcoin.  ;D

Thanx for your awesome understanding. Here Buyer means who are purchasing product/services using Bitcoin. Buyer does not get Bitcoin. They spend it.

This is an epic one. But it could go the reverse way...

in a utopian world of legitimate and ethical business, if something went wrong the business would honour the refund. and buyers would not scam the seller via chargebacks for no reason.

bitcoin is one step in that direction, but ofcourse it involves both the buyers being smart enough to only purchase from good businesses that have proper refund policies. and sellers for having the ethics to make refund policies and to stand by them.

Nothing in bitcoin is "anonymous" just well hidden to the average person.

So, if i give u a random address, u can say who is the owner ?

It's only "anonymous" as in you don't need to tie your personal identity to an account, but the transactions are more traceable than cash.

That is a rather naive viewpoint. In almost all existing payment methods (including bitcoin) there are different trade-offs for buyer and seller, but hopefully they cancel each other out in order to meet at a place where people are comfortable making the transaction.

As a simple example of the asymmetry, consider PayPal transactions for services such as web hosting. This is an incredibly popular sort of transaction. Buyer has the advantage of being able to reverse it for months after it is made. Is that fair on seller? Well seller has the different advantage of being able to cut off the service at any time. Still seller may lose out on a few months of provision of their service. But it's a convenient payment method so it's still worth it to the seller. It's a cost of doing business.

Even at the most basic level there is an inherent asymmetry between most buyers, as relatively powerless individuals, and some very large companies. Anyone who has ever had to deal with a large telco should be able to understand that one.

Yet to suggest that everything has to be made equal in all respects sounds like some sort of communist Great Leap Forwards radical change of society to an agrarian barter level to me I'm afraid!

exactly...

Not everyone is the average joe here.

But how do u know the guy behind those 32 char alphanumeric keys except he make Tx with uR service ?

Research is all you need to do.

using bitcoinmonitor.net ? ;)

Mircopayments account for 99% of my daily spending.
Buy a cup of coffee here, a pack of gum there, then a sandwich...

I would like to see a payment system designed for the daily stuff not the other way around.

That is an advantage ?

Bitcoin is great for these types of transactions. Although it would really no longer be "near free" to spend your coins on these types of transactions, it would reduce the costs verses paying with a credit card (the TX fees would make up a larger percentage of the transaction)