Bitcoin Forum

This is not a proposal of forking network!
By timestamping first wallet transaction with real time date/hour/seconds into ledger history, bitcoin core software nodes can make an agreement that if, for example:
during the next 2 years the wallet's public address that was timestamped do not output any Tx, bitcoin nodes take those funds and place them into next block header.
If a public address will make a new output tx with any amount of tokens will be re-stamped with date that was realized the last tx.
If the public address won't put a minimum of 1 transaction in 2 years, those funds from public address will be moved into next block of transactions.
I know it sounds easy. But to translate into coding, it is very hard to accomplish.
In bitcoin is harder to be implemented due to multi-sig public keys .
I cannot see another solution to this problem, which can become very important in far future.
I would call this process (Proof of owner's wallet)
P.S Timestamp can be from 2 years up to 200 years, 2 years is as an example

Ahh I don't understand this at all. Can you shed more light

Well, let's say u create your first wallet.
You generate your first public key , your friend will send you 1 btc, that transaction will be stamped with a /year/hour/minute/second , if that public key won't put any output transactions from that stamp for 2 years, it will mean that owner lost his private key and he lost private key.
If that wallet will generate at least 1 output transaction, the timestamp will be reseted to the time when that transaction was made.
So, i know is harder for multi-sig wallet, because you can unlock an infinite public addresses, it is hard, but should be a solution if only 1 transaction will be realised from that private key with multi-sig to reset the countdown time .
You can make an output transaction by sending few satoshi from one public address to another public address from same wallet due to multi-sig condition.
If owner lost his wallet private key, he cannot put any output transactions, therefore if wallet is lost, nodes should agree all of them, those funds should be moved either in the next block reward for miners, or adding a new block in year 2140 :)
If group that created bitcoin cannot say anything, maybe community can implement a similar solution .

This has nothing to do with hackers, it is only about lost wallets.
In 20 years if bitcoin want to stay relevant, we need entire tokens in circulation when mass adoption start. What is the point to leave millions of bitcoins lost?! There is nobody that win about those "tragedies" how u call them.
In 2011 btc was nothing, who would guess what is gonna happen . They lost many wallets .

Unlike banks or companies like paypal, egold and others, wallets are stored on our computers with peer to peer network to the world. One solution is our bitcoin wallet must be periodically backed up to multiple devices so that when doing transaction, tens of thousands of computers in bitcoin network will verify the data we input so that fraud does not happen. Because, Bitcoin is stored on our computer in the wallet. If the computer is damaged the same as our bitcoin lost.

Nope, your bitcoins are in ledger network, not on your device. Your device only give access in the ledger and makes u owner of that wallet public address signed by your private key that is stored on your computer.

maybe if you lose your bitcoin wallet, we will experience losses,because the bitcoin will be lost with reform certain.I think we better keep the security of our devices,avoid from damage .

Personally i lock my wallet in offline, i make transactions from offline signing transactions and broadcast that transaction from online wallet. But not everyone  is good in informatics. I only hope early devs will think at this solution.

They are many wallet used for crypto currency, by receiving token and alt-coins, and in case like this, bitcoin wallet address can be restored, by creating account with blockchainwallet.info while creating account, it we require email address,

Yes, it is.

A coin is forked after blocks are generated with both the new rules and the old rules. You are proposing new rules to return "lost" bitcoins somewhere (back to the sender?) The old rules say that a transaction must include a valid signature of the address holding the coins, but your new rules would not have this signature (because the private key was lost). Therefore blocks created with your new rules would not be valid under the old rules.

This would require a fork. Besides, it is not a very good idea anyways. It would require "upkeep" of your Bitcoins otherwise you will lose them. This makes no sense and essentially puts an expiration date on your Bitcoins. You would need to access your wallet more often to timestamp a transaction and this also exposes you to more risk. Lost/losing wallets aren't really a problem anyways.

well if you count all bitcoin core's updates forks, then yes you can see it as a fork. I explained that lost wallets will be returned to network, either as a new reward for miners, either adding new blocks after year 2140 when last block will be mined. No way you can return lost wallets to owners by my solution. Do not read between lines.

By providing additional security such as Google authenticator. do not let us do WD in the cafe. and do not croboh put hp or lektop is easy for the reach of small children. because my friend lost his assets because hp. His in use by his son .

somehow i do not think the idea is good. i may want to keep coins for more than 2 years without having to move them. with such a procedure, i would always be afraid that i would forget to ship the coins and thereby lose them. if the time window were bigger (maybe 90 years), i would find it ok.

Structurally a bitcoin binary code is very difficult to achieve, so bitcoins will remain safely stored in the wallet.
the process of the code can be simplified like a proof of purchase, where every time a transaction there is a sign of proof and it is a number commonly called TX in the world of crypto. maybe it's a simpler language than having to encode a bitcoin script.

yes Structurally a bitcoin binary code is very difficult to achieve and so bitcoins will remain safely stored in the wallet.

no, you are not allowed to touch my bitcoins. i would like to buy and hold them for hundreds of years and i don't want to move them at all and you are not allowed to force me to do otherwise. what you are doing is that you are calling my coins lost and you want to steal them from me!

Here's a little advice from me Make sure you save Backups in different locations, eg on other computers, in cloud storage, on USB Flash Disk, on CD, printed on paper. Do not save a Backup on your computer or SmartPhone where your Bitcoin Wallet is installed because it will not do any good if your computer / SmartPhone is damaged / lost. Make sure Backup is Secure, not accessible to anyone other than you.
Hopefully my answer can help you.

Which is my question is why every time the transaction will come quickly if the Gas or the pay is raised?
is not the blockchain script supposed to be standard?

Timestamp can literally be any time margins to make an output, even if u put timestamp between 1 year and 100 years is fine for network, assuming that we do not live more then 100 years from now, at least network gain back their lost bitcoins.

As interesting as it may be to bring lost coins back into circulation, there is no real way to proof that the key for an address has been lost.
Two years are way too short; for example, I have coins in cold storage which are much older, and I don't plan to move them in the next two years.
Also, what happens in case you are unable to access your funds just because you can't? Imagine you have a really bad accident and are in coma for two years: you wake up and all your money is gone.

If you want to keep using the age of coins, better consider something like 100 years instead. However, even that might be a very bad idea: assume there is an address with 100BTC which is really lost. Based on your proposal, in 100 years those 100BTC would come back into circulation and some miner would be very happy; but, at that point the network most likely has gone to a level where single Satoshis are the normal amount and worth maybe $1-$10 each. Now you drop 100BTC what will crash the price and effectively make all BTC users have less.

If there is a point where Satoshis are getting too expensive, the better idea is to just add more decimals and create eg Minitoshis, Microtoshis or Nanotoshis.

Yeah, timeframe 2 years was just used as an example, it can be 100 years and it will be healthy for network. Supposing that someone 100 years old will have enough time to make 1 single transaction output on those funds to reset timestamp. Even if the algo will be written after last 1 satoshi will be mined to take in place the timestamping. And move those funds back into circulation.

if YOU are so worried about the "network" and it not losing YOUR coins then there is a simple solution for it without needing to change anything about bitcoin.

use timelock.

current block height is 526297 you want us to spend your coins after you die in X years then right now create a transaction and send your coins as a donation and in that transaction set the timelock to:
526297 + (X years * 365 days * 144 blocks/day)
for example if you have 1 year in mind then you set it to 578857

print only enough enough the minh chứng

No No No, if this was implemented, then Satoshi's coins would have gone to the miners < about 1 million coins > and all the burnt coins would come back into circulation.  ::) All lost coins are beneficial to the other people who use this technology, because it decrease the coins in circulation and also in theory the total supply of coins. A decline in supply, will increase the price of the available coins. 

If you could tweak this proposal and change the output to a secondary address that you own, then this might work. You might have lost the private key to your primary address, but you might still have access to the private key of the secondary address. <fail safe>

Sounds interesting  Means that the wallet information will still be available no matter how long it takes, makes things a little easier for the consumers as there will be a back up, the question however is where will you get the block information from  so as to regenerate the information over the blockchain over a period of time

Congratulations for conveniently ignoring my other arguments.

Again, dropping hundreds or thousands of BTC into a system where people deal with millionth fractions of a single BTC can easily cause an inflation. That's similar to what irresponsible countries do when debts go through the roof: print money. We've seen those results more than enough times; it never works.

Just forget what you consider lost. What you think is lost might be someone else's long-term investment.

Also, your proposal is not free for users. They are forced to either pay a transaction/keep-alive fee, or loose their money. And we have seen fees that were higher than the actual transaction amount.

Lost coins are no issue because remaining coins can be split infinitely. You are beating a dead horse.

@Bitsky,
You mean arguments like people cannot use their private key because they simply can't do it?
If in 100 years a wallet cannot make an output transaction u think after 100 years he remember where he wrotte his privatekey?
@Kakmakr
What makes u think bitcoin developers that invented bitcoin cannot make an output Tx from their early mined wallets?
The rest who wannabe just like those people that find a problem to any solution , well, be my guest!
I can bet this solution will be implemented in bitcoin core, maybe not in the next upgrade of core. But a similar solution will be implemented. It needs only majority of nodes and miners to implement it.
I would not be surprised to be implemented in other alt coins first.

You will loss your coins just because of your negligence, a proper way of backing up your wallet just to securely store your recovery keys and if you even can't do it just print out paper wallet and put it in bank locker with some insurance for sure.

12 word backup phrase is not that long to take care of, you can even remember it on your mind so that you don't have to write it down or keep securely... ;D

Lots of early investors haven't moved coins for many years even though they have access to those address, so your idea doesn't make sense on that ground.

In fact i have a better ideea, why cannot i ask bitcoin devs themselves? I mean those who bring us bitcoin blockchain technology in our lifes!
I am sure they read this forum, hopefully they read this post too.
Send me 10 satoshi from genesis block #1  from this public address 12c6DSiU4Rq3P4ZxziKxzrL5LmMBrzjrJX
 to my address 17Ub7BBzAieXmFXunPcY9iu5jBGUFJzN7e
You can leave a message if you agree with solution anti-lost wallet.
I guess they can send bitcoin from peer to peer anonymously without need to reveal their identity.
A message would worth more then 10 satoshi's.
Hope they find a solution to hide queries.

I think if you lost wallet is already lost money. You cannot recover it anymore. So always keep in your mind the save you wallet key is is better if  you will print also. A lot of people now they cannot recover wallet because the lost private key and they dont know no more chance to recover it.


#Support Vanig

The problem is that if more will lose wallets and bitcoins, network itself will suffer, now you do not feel lost bitcoins because demand is low. When demand will increase in 50 years, then all those 4mil coins will matter . I do not offer a solution for owner that lost money, i offer solution for healthy of network. The owner of lost wallet have no chance to get back money, but network will keep entire coins in circulation.
Anyway i do not see bitcoin as a single global currency. So, for me personal i do not gain anything . I think even those who lost wallets will agree to let those coins return in circulation as a reward for mining blocks.

With a satoshi worth a fraction of a penny, I don't think too much scarcity will be a problem. Because of the nature of its halving every x years along with growing use and loss of bitcoins, bitcoin is inherently deflationary. Depending on your perspective of economics, it may be a good thing.

at this moment the thing most feared by all bitcoin members is the loss of bitcoin wallet, because many of the heker who want to steal other people's assets.this factor that many people are afraid to invest in bitcoin, to be prepared so that our bitcoin wallet is not lost is: we have to choose secured wallet, do not give the key of our wallet to others, and many other ways

I really can not understand what you are trying to explain here. It was really faint, I did not know the purpose. Am I too shallow to understand it?

Agree

Your solution offer securing wallets from this time to the future if users read your advice, but this won't save wallets that are already lost.

No, you want to force users to make transactions. That includes paying fees for something you don't even want to do. In essence, you suggest a "please let me keep my bitcoins" tax.
If I buy one ton of gold and bury it, do I have to prove ownership every x years? No. Will it be taken away from me? No.
If I get 1 million fiat and keep it under my bed, do I have to prove ownership every x years? No. Will it be taken away from me? No.

It will not be implemented, simply because people understand that what you suggest boils down to expropriation and control over your money by a 3rd party. Bitcoin was created to make exactly that impossible.

Wrong, because if demand at some point will be so high that single Satoshis are worth hundreds of dollars, devs can simply add more decimals and split Satoshis. And if you don't think that's possible, look at the stock market where it is pretty common to split and join stocks to make them better trade-able again.

Obviously you have no idea what bitcoin is. Nor do you understand macro economics and why is important for cash to flow. Stop fool yourself and living in a 100$/satoshi world. What you gonna do if all developers will agree with this implementation and most of miners and nodes will implement this solution? You sue the bitcoin?

So if person actually doesn't use the wallet for 2 years and they actually have the private keys they would still just lose the bitcoins?

Yes, I hope there will be no loss / loss, because the most important part of the wallet is to keep the private key, if the private key is declared missing and there is some Bitcoin in it, it is the lost wallet and its contents and Bitcoin is still intact in it anytime.
If you still hold the private key, it is still in your hands.BTC

But we need private key or wallet file that encrypt the private key store in them.
Without private key or wallet file, can you access and move the balance of the wallet ?
I think the most wallet lost are some how like that, they forgot the private key or lose their wallet file.

Thanks for your solution, with me, I always back up personal information carefully and secure them as much as possible so that they are safe, because that is my money.

The private key is very important, who owns the private key, who is the owner of the wallet

Timeframe from stamping is not necessary to be 2 years, it could be 100 years, and if frame between 0-100 years that wallet don't make any output transaction, all nodes will agree with sentence that wallet is lost. If after 99 years wallet make at least 1 transaction with minimum or equal amount of 1 satoshi then timestamp will be extended with another 100 years.

It's pretty pointless to discuss this with you because you keep ignoring the arguments which render your suggestion pointless.

You can add new digits and split satoshis if needed, so your "problem" of lost coins is non-existant.

Besides, there is no need to sue. People can then simply switch to a fork which does not steal your coins and does not make you pay fees for holding.

Please go troll somewhere else.

your solution is good, if only bitcoin and other cryptocurrency can accept and implement the solution this i think it will be another Goal for all cryptocurrency, i just wish they should implement  full security on lost wallet and coins.
Then all the arguments from other countries accepting it will stop.

I have been talking with few developers and they like idea, but it will be hard core coding. We will see if there can be an agreement on timeframe for timestamping TX

You’re wasting your time...

This is a very bad situation. But there is nothing to do except to find the lost wallet code. A friend lost it and tried to find data for months, but it was not a solution.

Dissimilar to banks or organizations like paypal, egold and others, wallets are put away on our PCs with shared system to the world. One arrangement is our bitcoin wallet must be intermittently went down to different gadgets with the goal that while doing exchange, a huge number of PCs in bitcoin system will check the information we input so extortion does not occur. Since, Bitcoin is put away on our PC in the wallet. On the off chance that the PC is harmed the same as our bitcoin lost.

This would require a fork. Additionally, it's anything but a smart thought at any rate. It would require "upkeep" of your Bitcoins else you will lose them. This has neither rhyme nor reason and basically puts a termination date on your Bitcoins. You would need to get to your wallet all the more frequently to timestamp an exchange and this additionally opens you to more hazard. Lost/losing wallets aren't generally an issue at any rate.

the idea and goal of what you have stated is really good.
but as what you have said this is a very hard task to do.
added to that constraints i dont think bitcoin holders will be happy to hear that someone could make that kind of a change in bitcoin.
so for me i think it will be better to leave it alone as what we have first used it.
let the lost coins be lost forever.

Will you give us any names so we can invite them to share their opinions here, or were these talks super-secret with you only and under the premise that you must not under any circumstance reveal who they are?

I don't know if have a solution when your wallets lost but to avoid like that circumstances we better keep the security of our devices,avoid from damage.

You need to write in detail and complete
I can not understand all your presentation intentions in the above article!

If your wallet lost don't be sad because that is the lesson that you  need to keep your wallet in secure place especially if your wallet have a high amount of money/ bitcoin and get a hard password that no one can easily guess because now the technology is hi-tect so be aware all the time.

There's no solutions to lost private keys or wallets that's why we need to be extremely careful to secure our funds by saving your cryptocurrencies on external hard drive such as Ledgers. Lost bitcoins or cryptocurrencies are gone for ever and I think it will give value to the rest available coins as the total amount will reduce.

I agree with your thinking that bitcoin will live 20 years in the future but if longer bitcoin life is very fun for me because I hope bitcoin can help me until my offspring later.
I have no doubt that bitcoin is a future that will develop forever.

I do not understand what you are describe. tapai that I understand if you lose your wallet and also personal key for your wallet I think you have to make a new wallet because you can not access your wallet anymore

When a user loses his wallet it affects the loss of your money and will definitely incur losses unless you still keep your privatkey but otherwise everything will be in vain. make sure you never forget your password to remove the privatkey or your money will be permanently lost.

It would require "upkeep" of your Bitcoins else you will lose them. This has neither rhyme nor reason and basically puts a termination date on your Bitcoins.

A very original approach to solving this problem, but it will be very difficult to implement this in bitcoin. There are many simpler ways to solve the problem of lost wallets.