Bitcoin Forum

Hello all. Until yesterday I thought this was just some universal game currency. Now I find it's actual currency that you are providing a service for. Also I've read that much of it depends on what you are using as far as wattage, and your video card.

Currently I'm running a Dell XPS 8300 with a Geforce GT530. The card is on it's last legs and I'm looking for a new one. Once I heard about mining though I figured I might look for an older Radeon that will do the job. If it pays off I can get myself some better equipment but at least I have a decent graphics card. Anyhow, is there something in the $200-$300 range that I can find used that will make a profit? I'll post my specs below. I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction here, or at least tell me if my current machine will even run a GPU that will work. If there is anything I missed please ask. I'm more than happy to help you help me. I thank you.

Make/Model: Dell XPS 8300
CPU: Intel Core i7-2600 3.4 GHZ
Ram: 12 GB
GPU: Nvidia Geforce GT 530

That's a nice gaming box you have there. But I'm afraid the days of mining BTC on your home rig are over. Mining has moved to powerful computers that run processors specially built for mining. Some people mine alt-coins on a PC then sell them for BTC, but it may be more profitable to just buy your coins.

Bummer...I figured I was late to the game :-\

Thanks anyhow.

For BTCs is to late in PCs, but u can mine another coins and trade it for BTC is sites like Cryptsy or with another members of this forum, so don't worry  ;)

You need ASIC to mine bitcoin, but you can mine the other altcoins with a graphic card, like litecoin or dogecoin  ;)

Your pc is exactly why buying pre-made computers is a bad bad idea, it has a good cpu, tons of ram and... a epic fail gpu! Buy a good graphic card and it will be awesome both for gaming and for mining  :D

You can buy a Radeon 7950 and mine Dogecoin.

if you want to mine altcoins sell the nvidia and buy a good ati

If you want to play AMD cards are good too. Do you play BF4? Look at the performance boost due to AMD Mantle  :D

You asked for a $200-$300 upgrade which would allow you to enter the mining game (and it is a game hehe).

I'd recommend selling the nVidia card, try to get to approx $350 if you can, then buy a Radeon R9-280X Toxic (if you can find one).

You'll get in at approx 820KHash, and should be able to make a small few bob mining altcoins, then turning them around on exchanges like Cryptsy. See my sig for a starter there.

Let's say you make $5 per day at that rate (which is optimistic, I won't lie to you) you could reinvest your $150 and add $150 for another Toxic next month. Now you're at 1650KHash, and maybe making $10 per day.

...which you then reinvest....ad infinitum.

You can get in, but you might need to plan to be aggressive at this point. That is, focus on mining the new released coins (only the ones with exchanges) and dump em when you have a few.

I've just basically outlined my plan, really :P I'm also a late starter!

Will watch this thread closely because I'd also appreciate a few tips!

Rit.

ASIC for BTCs / PC for GAMES   ;D

Actually the computer was free. A guy bought it for his daughter then she stole his credit card and a lot of other BS you shouldn't pull on your Father or anyone else. I do a lot of stuff for him and he asked if I wanted it. Heck yea I did!

As I said though, I'm already looking for a good graphics card. If I could turn it into something that might at least pay for itself over time that's a bonus. Right now if I run any type of graphically demanding game my monitor starts flickering purple. I was hoping to get away with less than $200 on a decent previous gen card. And since you can still mine alternative coins I can still possibly make it pay.

Anyone have suggestions on make and model I can run? Just something that will get me into the game for now and later I can think about upgrades if it works out for me.

Also the ASIC thing, I've heard they're on backorder, or they were. Are they actually shipping yet?

Yes, but the Altcoin market is not fucked yet. And I don't think it will be for a while. As long as people are willing to (a) Trade altcoins to BTC, and (b) willing to back another altcoin (Litecoin seems the most likely choice atm, although Doge seems to be making somewhat unreal progress), GPU Scrypt mining will be profitable, even if not to the degree that the early gold-rush of BTC mining was.

Or maybe we only need to hold hodl and wait?

Rit.

EDIT: Unless you have serious money to invest don't go near ASIC Bitcoin mining at this time. Too volatile, and it's a minefield of scammers.

OK, score! Nothing wrong with a free machine :)

So you have the base machine, all you need is a GPU (graphics card). You have two choices, Radeon (AMD) or nVidia. The architecture of Radeon cards (which is not something I pretend to understand, shaders blah blah blah) is significantly better than nVidia. So sell that nVidia card (it's worth about $50), and buy a decent Radeon.

[EDIT: But what you want is a Radeon R9-280X Toxic - trust me on this]

There are dozens, and the best place to look is:

https://litecoin.info/Mining_hardware_comparison

It's on the Litecoin Wiki, but can be applied to ANY altcoin. You should try to focus on the KHash (mining power) per dollar (Kh/$) and see what you can pick up.

Ofc after you have it, pointing it in the right direction and profiting is a whole 'nother science :)

But you're in the right place to learn!

Rit

Thanks kindly. Even if I don't profit, I'll still be able to try something new and in the end I have a good graphics card. Hopefully the alt-coins will hold for a while. Seems that every time something awesome comes out (read: Magic money machine) they have to go and piss in the pot.

I'll start with the card so at least I can run my games and we'll go from there.

*EDIT: I checked out the Radeon R9-280X. Holy smokes! Impressive looking but no way can I swing over $400 right now. AMD 5870 is a bit over what I was thinking of but definitely doable. It has a Kh/S rate of 400 which is incredible compared to my current card. My wattage is at about 400 and that's the peak value I believe.

I went on the litecoin calculator and though i don't know exactly all the values I entered my wattage, cost of power, and the 400 Kh/S I ended up with $68 monthly profit. Still, I don't know about pool fees and all that, and then what to do with the litecoins or otherwise once I want to cash out. But that's down the road.

That's EXACTLY the correct way to look at it. You're buying a games monster. And when you're not gaming, it's mining.

On the subject of pissing in the pot though....we're at a time when any cretin with the knowledge to do a make on a C++ file can make their own coin. This is VERY VERY good for low-power miners, as you can adopt a strategy of:

1) Watch the announcements like a hawk for new coins.
2) Hope on the ones you think might go up slightly (you only need slightly) - tip: premines do not get supported well generally.
3) Mine a few blocks on the first night or two it's out
4) Keep em for a couple of weeks (while hopping on the next one in the meantime)
5) Dump em when you figure your night's work has been worth it.

You CAN make money. You just need to keep your eye on the ball :)

Rit.

PS: Oh, and one last thing - mining is becoming so popular now that the gear you buy (specifically GPUs) is not subject to anything like the normal depreciation of computer hardware. It'll hold it's value fairly well, so you can bail in a few months time with very little loss. Which is nice ;)

Anyhow I checked out the AMD 5870. Kh/S 400. Think that'll get me started?

Yep, nicely. Just don't pay very much for it. About $150 max.

Ofc that's my opinion - others may offer better insights into the value.

Rit

Cool, thanks. I can find them used under $200. As long as it works ok that's just fine by me.

You could start cloud mining instead, doesnt require any hardware and you can buy literally as much gh as you want. My signature has all the details :)

I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I'll recommend AGAINST cloud mining at the moment.

The price you pay is generally not enough to get your money back. Plus you own nothing.

Buy a card, set it up, learn a bit of stuff, have some fun, and maybe make a few shekels.

:)

Rit.

If money's an issue go for an HD7950 on ebay,I've seen them going for a good rate as the hashrate can be pretty good (around 650-720 kh/s I hear) for scrypt mining.I say mine DOGE coins or another alt coin then cash them in for BTC,then trade for real money (like I'm doing now,except I repurposed my GPU from mining BTC to DOGE coins as I delegated Bitcoin based alt coins,SHA-256 technology, to my newly purchased Ant miner U1 ASIC as I can mine both kinds of coins at the same time,a practice known as Hybrid mining.)

I'm starting to feel glad that I entered the mining scene from May 2011 (which was completely different which I guess makes me an old member here)

I know what I'm saying is a bit more advanced but I'm sure you can do ok with it. :)

Yep, I'm already getting the card anyhow. If I can make a buck for doing so that's gravy. I wonder though, even if it's not exactly profitable, since my computer is on 24/7 anyhow, won't I at least cut down on my electric bills?

I got most of what you're saying Film. In a few months I'll have the rest of it hopefully. Is it a pretty straightforward affair to swap Alt coins for BTC, and then to hard currency?

You may try to use Multipool. https://www.multipool.us/
It allows you to mine the most profitable coin automatically.


But, don't expect to get much from it, as ATI/AMD graphics card works much better in mining.
For the scrypt hashrate of different cards, you may refer to the following page.
https://litecoin.info/Mining_hardware_comparison

Watch out for the difficulty changing. A card that might earn $10 in your first month will give only $5 in the second, $2.5 in the third etc.

I'll keep that in mind, as well as the multi pool thing. Sounds like fun though.

another option is to mine Bitcoin Srypt - BTCS (anti ASIC)

http://btc2.cryptominer.net/index.php

I wouldn't go for a 5870 right now. It is too old, perhaps you get one with a lot of use or a lot of mining. If you can't afford a 7950 go for a 270x

your PC can mine bitcoin if the difficulty is under 100. right now, the bitcoin difficulty is too high, so NO, your PC won't be able to mine bitcoin.

Even the 5870 blows the doors off my current card. I found the GT530 listed on one Bitcoin comparison chart and it has a Kh/S of 17. It pretty much won't even do a calculation. The 5870 has a Kh/S of 400. It's not a demon unless you compare it with the Nivid I have now. Even so, it's respectable and it's pretty much what I have my eyes on unless my local computer guy can somehow hook me up with something better. I take all my business to him so he might help me out a bit.

And as I've said before, I'm getting a card anyhow. If at all possible I'll go for something faster than the 5870. It only takes a few more dollars to go first class right? But if it isn't possible at least the 5870 will let me get my feet wet and see if this venture is for me or not. If I can prove this is viable I can rake up scratch for better equipment quick fast and in a hurry.

Finally, If it's all for nothing, at least my damn monitor will stop flickering purple and I can crank up the detail and draw distances.

Heliarc, the 5870 will do admirably for starting out, but see if you can get it fairly cheaply. I wouldn't pay $200 for it. For an extra 50% investment ($300) you could double your hashing power. If you can grab it for $150 I'd say go for it. If you make a few bucks off altcoins in the first few weeks, you can always reinvest and add a second or third card.

Best of luck :)

Rit.

Dont bother mining man.

Well thanks for the encouraging words ;D

Ritual, I have yet to talk to my local guy. He's not going to be in until tuesday. He really pulls some stuff out of nowhere for me though. I won't be buying anything until I've talked with him since he likely has a previous gen card on one of his shelves. His used equipment is dirt cheap. He's not in the parts game, he's in it for service. If I can't get something from him that will do it I won't go over $150 on the 5870. If I can't get the 5870 for that price I'll go the extra mile for a $300 card and be done with it.

I'm going to do some research and find out just what my target is should I have to go the $300 route.

**Edit** I'm thinking a 5970 if I have to go all out. Apparently people are already upgrading from these so my local guy might even have one. If it's been used for mining a lot already is that a bad thing? Seems like mining runs the card full tilt non-stop.

why not mining if you have equipment for it. there will always be some coin who is good for mining.

@Heliarc

Ignore the people who tell you not to mine. There is still money to be made, and it's a cool hobby to have - you will learn alot :)

wrt to the card you buy, I can only point you at: https://litecoin.info/Mining_hardware_comparison

The basic equation you want to use is: Hashrate/buyprice = value. You want this number to be as high as possible.

(e.g. a 400 KHash card for $200 = value 2, whereas a 800KHash card for $600 = value 1.333 - the first card probably makes more sense. This doesn't take into account power usage though)

Try to take an average of the values you see for cards - some people have managed to get really crazy high rates by spending hours and hours tinkering with every aspect of the settings. You might see an entry for your card at several different places in the list, with a wide variance of hashrates. Aim for the middle.

Your basic strategy should be to monitor the announcement board for new coins, grab a few right at the start, then hope they get added to an exchange, such as Cryptsy. If and when they do, you can then convert them into Bitcoin or Litecoin, or whatever you favour.

GL with it and keep us updated :)

Rit./

Go for it.. no losses I dont think.

The SAPPHIRE HD 4870 X2 2G GDDR5 PCI-E

this card definitely can do it
cost approximately 360 USD

Heliarc, if you're still interested, my site might help you with a few things (I hope):

http://cryptoexperiment.wordpress.com/

More content being added every day, and I'll be working on the layout and categorisation today to make it a bit easier to navigate.

Thanks,

Rit.

Power usage is indeed important, especially if you are expecting to do mining for a long period of time (well, you can stop anytime, and just sell your graphics cards).
Don't underestimate the electricity cost when you are mining 24/7.  :)

exactly
However if you have cheaper sources of energy such as solar panels
Then you it's worth it ....

You are both correct, I'm kind of ignoring the electricity cost at the moment. I'm viewing this as a complete newbie trying to just get started with one card, to test the water. Power costs would be fairly low for a just-getting-started machine, so assuming that the OP can cover his leccy bill at the moment, he's not likely to be put under immediate pressure with a small machine.

Ofc it becomes a different story with multicard rigs, and it wouldn't be smart to ignore the cost at that point. But if the OP progresses to that point, then he should have picked up on that.

Rit.

That's pretty much it. I just want to check this thing out to see if I like it or not. I'm sure there's money to be made if you do it right but for now I just want a look at the scene. Plus I need a new card so I might as well have some fun with it. Right now as long as I don't raise my power usage by something ridiculous it's ok. After I figure out if I want to keep going and get the hang of this I can think about a better rig.

But GH/s are tradable too,no?

Well, they are. I'm assuming you're referring to a system like cex.io.

Buying GH there and mining with them is not at all profitable. But I guess that you could speculate on the rising or falling prices of GH, and make some money by trading it.

But that's not really mining, it's speculation, and I am not sure it's within the scope of what Heliarc is interested in at the moment. I could be wrong :)

Rit.

You're right on. I want to get my own card, learn how to do this, and not be dependent on someone elses equipment. Though I'm not sure if that's how it works, but I don't want to pay fees and other crap. I want the raw mining. Not renting the pickaxe.

Well, it's more or less how it works :)

I think the biggest hurdle for you is possibly going to be warming to the idea of pool mining. Once again, I'm going to point you at my blog here: http://cryptoexperiment.wordpress.com/2014/02/04/release-the-hounds-setting-up-and-letting-it-rip/

To quote myself:


My advice is to just get going, join a pool (I can recommend Terk's - linked), and see how you get on. It's the only way to learn!

Rit.

Not with that NVidia card.

Dunno if you're talking to me or not, w00tcoin, but I'll start where I'm at, thanks very much ;)

And the reason that I came into this thread is that I think Heliarc wants to do the same.

Have a nice day mate!

Rit.

be careful not to get electrocuted when you are using electricity.

Cudaminer and altcoins work fine for a few pennies a day.

buy some ATI GPU

and with CPU mine some newbie CPU cryptocoins

Mine is definitely not worth it now is certainly not.....

why?

if you have many Ghash...

If you have free hardware, it would be profitable to run it.
But, it will not be profitable to buy hardware or buy hashrate to mine bitcoin...

I wouldn't say it's unprofitable. But you have to have a goal, and there is a breakeven mark.

With coin switching, trading and then converting to Bitcoin, it's realistic to expect a return of 0.01 BTC per day per MHash. That's 0.3 per month roughly, which works out to about €200 per month atm. A 1GHash machine will probably comprise a base system and 2 cards, so you're looking at about 650-750 watts pulled, which is 0.75 KW/H. At €0.15 (where I live) per KW/H, that about €0.12 per hour, or €2.88 per day. Which adds to €86.40 per month. That's a profit of approx €113 per month. Which is pretty OK for a small machine.

Generally, here's how you can work it out:

CPD (Cost per day) = Watts/1000 * Cost of 1 KWH * 24

CPD = 24WU/1000 [U = unit = cost of 1 KWH]

IPD (Income per Day) = 0.01 * Khash/1000

IPD = 0.01K/1000

IPD here is in Bitcoin, so we'll multiply by the current BTC price to get a cash figure:

IPDC = 0.01K*(BTC)/1000

Breakeven is reached when they are equal:

24WU/1000 = 0.01K(BTC)/1000

24WU = 0.01K*(BTC)

U is a constant, in my case 0.15, so I can reduce to:

(3.60)W = 0.01K*(BTC)

Rearranging a bit:

K = (360/BTC) * W

Or a bit more usefully...

(360/BTC) * (W/K) = 1 when you are exactly breaking even.

A coefficient of profitability is a bit more useful maybe...

If you calculate (360/BTC) * (W/K), you will see that:

- 1 is exactly break-even
- Higher than 1 is a loss
- Less than 1 is a profit

Hope that helps.

Rit

It might be a bit clearer here:

http://cryptoexperiment.wordpress.com/2014/02/07/86/

:)

Rit.