Bitcoin Forum

Since there are so many of these spread all over the place and pretty much 5 more every week. Why not make just 1 thread to house them all?


Soon the boys at 0.1$/kwh is about to get rekt.


Y'all ready fo dees?

Not the first time we have been at this point.

Probably not the last

Whats the point of this useless thread?

Exactly.

The pattern  seems to repeat  boom bust boom bust boom bust.

Cheap power and lack of stupidity and you should be all right .

And sometimes mining at a small loss (just like running a business) if you can HODL on.

Yes, when mining goes unprofitable you have options.

Shut the machines down and sell <-- To me that's the worst outcome, not only do you lose future gains, but miners are not worth much at the moment so it's a double loss

Shut the machines down <-- again you are losing future profits, but saving electricity and other upkeep costs

Continue mining at a loss <-- If you're able to sustain this you can sort of look at it as just buying the coin

Look at other SHA256 coins. I have to admit, I've been giving profit switching and merged mining a look. It takes more work, but I've been doing better than just straight BTC

Diversify! At the moment my Masternodes are easily helping to suppliment my physical miners. Obviously ROI applies.

Roll the dice and solo mine as a complete hail mary

Look for ways to be more efficient, using coupons and eBay I am going to sell my most inefficient miners and replace with the most efficient I can afford, thus lowering total wattage used and bumping hashrate a bit

Honestly, Solo mining is not that bad. I got a block in 2 weeks.........but it was a BCH tho

For me, I opted to shut down my miners and wait for further dips.

The bear just got started...

How many th you have  :o

several PH TH isn't gonna cut it in today's world

Bitcoin Difficulty:   5,077,499,034,879
Estimated Next Difficulty:   5,643,030,517,915 (+11.14%)
Adjust time:   After 1632 Blocks, About 10.3 days
Hashrate(?):   39,993,785,389 GH/s
Block Generation Time(?):   
1 block: 9.1 minutes
3 blocks: 27.1 minutes
6 blocks: 54.3 minutes

Price still on 6700, dif change in June already +17% and a next estimated of +11%.
S9i cheap gear or something that we dont know?

low cost power people are buying tons of low cost s9i's

I escrowed 1000  different bitmain coupons in the last 3 months.

more then 800 sold to one guy.  so 800 x 14th = 11.2ph   the coupons were 200 230 350 mix  lets say they were 250 average  the s9i is about 700 with a psu -250 = 450

at 4 cents 11.2 ph earns 2600 a day  so he is paying off 5 or 6 s9i's a day if he has 4 cent power
at 5 cents 11.2 ph earns 2328 a day  he would be paying off 5 s9i's a day.

we are watching big money low cost power guys stock up.

This is a great time to change out your units for more efficient/powerful ones. I'm slowly upgrading my 741's to the 8's and picking up some T1's. These difficulty increases still suck tho, and it hurts to spend my BTC at such a low exchange rate.

buy btc with cash then spend it

we are down to 6350  I am going to buy 1000 usd in btc today

40 EXAHASH of mining power .... fucking insane.  And the sheer rate at which more miners keep coming online is crazy.  Blokforge has S9s at $700 now, they were over $4000 6 months ago.

Adding even 100 Terahash of mining power to your farm is like throwing a hot dog down a hallway.....

Yep, and I think a good number of big(ger) mines is going down \ bankrupt within the next coming months.

They just have to keep dumping (manipulating) the prices further down. The lower the volume the easier.
Right now people just keep buying the Bitmain gear and don't want to see the whole picture.

If they have the guts to pull this trick till the end of this year, the damage will be great.
Remember how hard BTC did go down at the moment the BTC futures where live?
Well, the LTC futures are coming any moment. So do the math...
GOX coins still need to be sold in this low volume dump market...
I guess some more exchanges will get hacked...

In my opinion we only can go one way. But that is what they wanted for this year.

The extreme rise of last year was manipulated (we all know about Tether) and what is happening now is one big game show where a good number of the market needs to brought down.

The are simple to many chickens in the shed right now.

yup. Seems a viable explanation...

This chicken is only going to buy more gear, especially when its getting dumped on the market due big boys quitting / bankrupting mining... :)

Be mindful and do your maths. Your money invested in miners would probably never ROI and better off using the money for miners to buy BTC.

Just my 2 satoshi..

depends...

at .1 BTC not that much of a risk i guess...  ;)

How you like dem squeezes

It hurts for sure!

Ever searching to improve efficiencey, I've been able to reclaim a large amount of wattage by improving the airflow in my mining room/garage. I noticed during the heat of the day my S9's with APW3++ were using 1533W each, and my M3's were using 2300W each!!

Getting the room cooled down the S9s dropped to 1366W each, and the M3s have dropped down to 21-2200W. I am going to have to sell the M3s. I don't want to because they are solid, but I need to accept the reality.

I have all the miners ducted which helps, but I have a GPU rig as well, plus just the radiated heat is keeping the room 4-5* above ambient. I installed a 3000 CFM exhaust fan that has helped quite a bit. It's 102*F today I'll let it go for a few more days to get a good idea on the overall effect.

Works for me, less cost to accumulate.   

All the brokers here don't mine but they do buy on these lows.

Didn't BTC drop to 4k earlier this year? Pretty sure there was more trading than order placing that day. One guy is always on Bisq all day like someone in IT playing WOW at work.

I turned the s7's off now but only been mining since late LY. Not sure what the panic is if you have a plan. Then the people here as extremely helpful and I started a sole proprietorship to get some better costs as my small mine grows and search for cheap power. 

I remember the "good ole days" where I would occassionaly be able to buy miners with a 100 days straight line ROI (cost/day 1 profit <= 100 days).  Always figured those would really ROI within a year, since difficulty was going up.

Now an S9 is clearing less than $1/day (or there abouts, depending on your power cost), and the units are still around $900 with shipping and power supplies.  900 day ROI?  That is insane.

Only good news is it looks like hashrate is FINALLY starting to fall.

Bitmain price is 734 USD +shipping
S9i-13.5TH/s with PSU

I bought today the same set with a 500USD coupon and the price was 0.06284169 BTC shipped.

it means that they stopped following their own rules about no more than 50% of the bill being covered by a coupon.
No matter, at 10c/kwh, S9 breaks even, more or less.
I might still continue, but it does not look good at the moment.

Especially not if coin keeps dropping about a hundred bucks a day. Been saving up my BTC for most of the last year for a new miner project and in the last 60 days enough value has evaporated to have paid for half the first batch. Most of what was set aside was taken in when BTC was approximately twice its current value. Been in the game for five years and I still can't get used to the volatility inspired by manipulation and speculation. Really wish more people weren't greedy or idiots.

old haters like Warren Buffet are affecting the price through their useless futures that they trade for $$ back and forth.
They have a lot of $$.

Man, I friggin' hate futures trading and all that. I come from a century of farmers and that kind of BS has ruined the industry.

Ironically, futures contracts were originally of great help to producers of essentials (minerals, food etc.) in planning investment and locking in profitability but, like so many legacy systems, they have mutated into just another tool for the financial establishment to exploit for self serving ends.

Sidehack,

In your five years of mining, was there any time that you turned off your miners because it was not profitable? How much are you paying for kwh? Do you also get ding with distribution and transmission charges? It seems that lots of people talk about kwh but they don't take distribution and transmission charges into account.

most of us include all costs in the number we give.

so my winter power is 13.7 cents
my summer power is   16.7 cents

I include all power company numbers in these numbers

I also make more adjustments.

I say my winter bill is 10 cents as I save large money on heating
I say my summer bill is 18 cents as I spend extra on ac

And at the moment  my only miner in house is a 3 card 1080ti miner as it earns 5.50 usd a day and costs about 2.88 usd in power each day.

I do have miners at the solar array

So no more 14Ths gears on bitmain, only 13.5 appearing on the website shipping 11-20 july

Maybe gone forever?

maybe they finally sold them all out.

People are in denial if they don't include all charges... My last elec bill was $968.89 total with 11778 kWh used, delivery charge, and tax. That comes out to 0.082/kWh cost.

Straight copy and paste from bill.

Just thought I would weigh in here as I've gone a different route. This only works for me because my electricity costs about $.06

I've been grabbing up more 741's for myself. I recently added 3 and am looking to add another 4. The reason being I found someone who got stuck with a pallet in the FOMO, and I was able to pick them up for $118 CAD.
Right now they'll each bring in about 1$ aday, $1.25 CAD roughly. So in 120 days I can ROI.

Even if the Diff jumps astronomically, My winter is cold and coming, I know it's only June, but by the end of October, These 8 little space heaters will be in my basement feeding into my electric furnace. So I will then be receiving 6 months of straight profit. Now this is only a concern if I sell what I mine, which isn't going to happen for a while.

Obviously my position is somewhat unique but it is a viable option for a lot of smaller miners out there wondering what to do.

It kinda sucks because at the beginning the people who came up with Future commodity trading wanted to ensure that the little guys don't go bankrupt before the harvest.

But humanity has a way of turning good things into weapons so.......here we are.

Same thing for Bitcoin, it started out as "freedom money" Free from inflation, free from the feds, free from government and uncensorable, everyone has an equal chance in this new financial world. Now look at it, only the rich gets richer and the normal people gon get rekt.

I'm kinda disgusted, but then again Bitcoin isn't a wealth equalizer, just a wealth opportunity for the new generation.

I actually haven't done much mining on my own in a few years. For about six months I was mining and reinvesting heavily and doing some mining-related work in exchange for miners, in part on somewhat of a dare, and turned a 10GH miner into around 2.5TH with no added cost by about April 2014. After that I shifted more toward picking up interesting hardware rather than pure profitability, and then I had to put everything I had into the business to stay floating for a while. The bulk of my actual mining the last few years has been for winter heat at home and in various spots around the shop.

I've been keeping a 100KW datacenter stocked, but it's all miners for about 18 other people. The electric cost here, when I'm at 100KW, is around 6.9 cents including all fees and taxes. I host for 8.9 cents, which means the "profit" from hosting exactly pays the rent when I'm at 100% capacity. That 6.9 cents is an aggregation of some flat monthly charges and a demand charge based on peak draw, plus a pretty low actual energy rate. I'm on a small-industrial rate scale in a rural co-op, so it's pretty decent, but the bills are still around $5k per month.

Had I my own miners instead, I could probably have been profiting handily this entire time. But to answer the actual question - no, I haven't shut down all mining because of unprofitability.

That is so true!

I'm one of the smallest of small guy and I get rekt for mining and trading in BTC...

Looking back, I'd wish I didn't get into this crypto thingy 8 months ago.  >:(

The SQUEEEEEEEEZE is on!



Upward

you got in at high tide

now its low tide.

it can be very tough to survive.

But if you do......boy the upside is YUGE!

The Squeeze is starting!

When? Now?

Gosh I hope not. I'm finally starting to relax a bit.

20-25% diff spike boyz

MORE SQUEEZE!!!


$7623


things can squeeze upward you know

Yep a nice big jump. Must be some new tech coming online again. I don’t know why one would even throw a 100k at it at this point. Mining at small scale is all but dead. Don’t fool your self. 

Currently 8 min block times and 43exa hash.   https://reddit.app.link/Mzkmk8SpMO

BR

I wonder if this thread is supposed to be about orange juice anxiety.. ..

Its just for us miners to have a bit of fun while we watch the world burn :D

Small dip from that Winklevoss ETF being denied.   

I think it speaks well towards a bullish market that the Gemini ETF FUD did not do much damage.

Pretty much rebounded by now. Threads like are pointless, don't think anyone here is going to panicked by fluctuation or bear market.

Depends on when you got into this.
Depends on depth of your pockets.
Depends on what  you have on the line.

True, but those replying here don't seem like the panicky types was all I was trying to convey. 

Well if you bought at 19k and still haven't sold...the upward price should have some what settled your fears.  Like gambling, don't bet more than you can afford to lose!

So whose idea was it to tank the exchange some more? Bitcoin's price drop in the last ten days has cancelled out all my sales revenue from the last three months, right before I needed it for the next project.

Patience I suppose.  .. .. power bill will be looming soon for me.

Wasn't there some dumb mt gox move again?

Didn't have any sell orders in there, just to protect your profits? 

Sorry, I cashed out $2k worth of BTC at $7100 near its peak yesterday and must have killed the bull run.... http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/horror/winking-monster-smiley-emoticon.gif (http://www.sherv.net/)

No, no sell orders. If I was that worried about profits I'd have gotten a different job ages ago, but greed is not among my motivations.
The majority of my BTC savings, about 90% of my capital at present, were taken in when coin was well above $10k. I think I can out-of-pocket what I need for a first batch of something new without having to dip too heavily into BTC savings, and hopefully revenue from the first batch would more than pay for the second and so on. And then when BTC goes back up after a while it'll start to cancel out all the ridiculous losses from Christmas season sales at $15k.

One of the good things about hosting others' miners instead of mining on my own is I'm insulated somewhat from the spikes. I get paid the same amount every month regardless. Hosting just covers building overhead though, not payroll or R&D or anything else.

So I shorted 2 BTC as a hedge against a down market at 8.1k because I couldn't access my cold storage for a week (was out of country). I came back to 4btc lol. But overall I think I still have the same amount of USD. Damn it I wish I wasn't reasonable all the time and just shorted everything. Would have been rich.

To solo mine with any consistency in these times? around 5-10PH at the very least.

But if you wanted to play the lottery maybe 1PH would be a good start. That is IF you got enough cash to front electricity for 2-3 months.

If you can afford to drop $150k on gear, you can probably afford to drop another $10k on electric.

Just a couple BTC's anyway, right? What are the probabilities for 1 PH solo?

Do we bounce off or slice through 6k? BTCBTCBTC

Well we know for now. ;)

No, because when some miners shut down the difficulty will drop and the remaining miners will get a larger proportional reward, thus retaining profitability. There is no price so low that the system will stop working entirely.


Also, to everyone who's ever thought I was joking when I warned friends that the price was about to tank because I am, as a rule, on the losing end of every market shift, two days ago I was told first of next week I'd have a big invoice to pay in BTC. So expect the price to keep going down until about an hour after that invoice has been paid, and I'll let y'all know when to buy in at the bottom.

Hey, if we both sell on the same day we might be able to crash btc to 5k lol

Why, is your luck that bad too?

The first time I had to cash out for a big project was February 2014, when I first got started and had zero money. Remember when that Gox bubble burst? Stalled a server supply breakout project for almost a month before I caught a brief spike and sold without losing too much.

I have no interest in deliberately crashing BTC. The opportunistic market jackoffs buying in would be the only ones to benefit, and the rest of us who actually work for a living will keep getting screwed. I'd like to see it back above about $8k and actually hold steady for a while, but stability will only happen when bitcoins are used more as a currency than as a stock. Margin sale profiteers love that volatility for their short-sighted gains, but that cripples confidence in reliable spending power necessary for the long-term economy.

I wasn't here for Gox, only started in 2015 when my friend fomo'd me into mining bitcoin because he needed to offload some s7.

But yea, my luck is pretty bad. I did manage to claw back earnings by trading though so I got that going for me.......which is nice.

And yes, being a Bitcoin miner is very much now becoming like real miners..........we get screwed by big corporation.......yet we do it for some unknown reason.

Piad that big ol' invoice just a bit ago, so normally I'd say we've hit the bottom and y'all should start buying but it occurred to me I'll have to cash out some coins in the next few days for a big PCB purchase or two so the exchange rate might not start to rebound until about Friday. Sorry, the squeeze is still squeezing.

I sold 0.1btc today to make ends meet. I sold at 6.3k went to sleep, woke up and wtf 5.9k

Maybe it should drop to 3500.

That should knock most miners out.

One of my guys here was doing a lot of hand-wringing a couple of weeks ago (when coin was around 8k) and asked me how low I thought it could go. I told him that I didn't think BTC had any chance to get out of this bear market and realize any organic price growth again until there was total capitulation of the interests that invested during the bull run last year. I mean idiots were buying coin with their credits cards and FASA funds for Christs sake. All of last years speculative malinvestment needs to be wiped out before there can be a turn around. I speculated that perhaps it would require a $3000 price level to do that. That's usually how a healthy business cycle re-establishes itself after a big speculative run-up / bubble burst.

Just wake me up when its over.

I think we may see that honestly. Which is why I'm selling most of my btc for now. No point in keeping them since the diff is likely to go down.

Couldn't agree more than you, since I'm self-employed and practically earning 100% crypto now. I generally don't lose or gain much, since I earn and have to sell regularly/periodically. Last year I'd almost always be selling at some profit from the Bitcoin I'd gain from payments, but this year, I'm almost always selling for a loss. Three consecutive invoices now worth 5-15% less by the time I received payment and are able to use them to pay bills, buy stuff or sell for cash. Don't want to do the numbers but I suspect I might now be approaching net loss.

Not really stopping me from spending BTC, I still believe the economy needs to move, but it is a bit of a bigger wince each time I'm paying for that weekly pizza (figuratively and literally).


Cool. I'm saving a couple of big invoices but can't realistically hold them too long so yeah floor anytime this month would be neat ;) Need to eat and stuff.


That might even tempt me to revisit some alts I ignored last year.

I always have the solar array to drop back to.

about 13kwatts cost for me is ½ the coins

so 130th  is like 65th with no power cost

Most all other mining is now turned off.

Big cashout today, should be the last for a while. So I expect to see an upturn in the market over the weekend.

EDITED:

Witnessed!  ;)

8k here we come ;D

Took a bit longer but yesterdays pump thanks to sidehack bought me some of my power from PGE.

Last dump before the pump? Sold at 7k to pay for electricity and now I think I'm gonna miss the pump :(