Bitcoin Forum

Where have you announced you are an employee of Trucoin Gavin ?

This is conflict of interest if you make a thread like this which clearly is a veiled troll of alt chains.

I suggest you make a thread called "Bitcoin Block Chain : be safe!" as well- pointing out the bugs and lack of features in the mainline client.

Anything you say about alt chains can be considered colored by who pays your bills. Its a vested interest. You need to include it in your sig on the forum at least.

 :)

If he is going to post those sorts of threads, he should do it on forums devoted to talking about bitcoin!

:P

RE: a be-safe thread for bitcoin:  There are already a couple "be safe" threads stickied in the Bitcoin Discussion forum (e.g. the beware of trojan wallet stealers thread, the newbies article that links to keep-your-wallet-safe, etc).

Writing a more general one is not a bad idea; if I knew last November all the craziness that would happen this year I would have written one back then (but back then nobody was spending tens of thousands of dollars speculating on bitcoin).

RE: putting my employer in my forum signature:  what do other people think? Would that be unfair advertising for TruCoin or good full disclosure?

If it drives more business to TruCoin then that will eventually, hopefully, mean more money in my pocket, so if it is up to me heck yeah I'll mention TruCoin in my signature!

Is TruCoin another fork of Bitcoin?
What is Trucoin actually?

I split this from "Be Safe" thread in Alternate Cryptocurrencies, and moved it here so more people could voice their opinions.

I love it, bitcoin core devs are working on a bitcoin bank!  Glad bitcoin is so decentralized!

I don't see one mention about a bank on TruCoin. Link?

I trust Gavin.  He has always been upfront about things, such as the fact that he is working for has visited the CIA.  ;)  Honestly, as long as the source remains open, what's the problem?  Mt Gox and the other exchanges can always hire someone to write code for the main Bitcoin client, too.  Maybe what's needed is a committee to approve changes to the source.  I hate to see bureaucracy introduced, but in the interest of impartiality and safety, perhaps that's what's needed at this point.  I also think it's fine for him to mention his TruCoin affiliation in his sig.

Maybe you should put your blog in your signature and TruCoin as your "website"

You guys worry too much, all of you.  A large number of core GNU/Linux developers worked at IBM.  That favored IBM, but it also favored Linux.  They didn't hide their affiliations, nor did they declare them to every Linux user.  This doesn't qualify as a conflict of interests.

I don't see this as a negative thing at all. Quite the opposite, it's a very positive development. A lot of the most popular open source projects have or had at some point the backing of one or more companies. Firefox, Chromium, WebKit, Linux, Wine, VirtualBox, Blender, Open Office, etc. Open source is great but the bad thing about it is that somehow people completely lost respect for the job of "software developer". It seems like they don't feel software developers are entitled to receive money for working which is absurd. Gavin now having a commercial interest in Bitcoin means he is much less likely to stop developing Bitcoin at some point due to a loss of interest and it also means he can spend more time on it. And it's in TruCoin's best interest to help Bitcoin succeed. There is of course a risk but the way Bitcoin works makes this risk rather minimal. If some or all of the developers of the Bitcoin client at some point decide to do something that the majority (51%) of the community doesn't like, people will just use a fork or a different client and the current developers would loose control over Bitcoin which solves the problem.

http://twitter.com/TruCoin

http://twitter.com/TruCoin/following

++1

More the merrier in the ecosystem.  I just checked out Bitcoin deals advertisement...  over a million products including digicam?  wow, I can't wait.

Any time you don't like Gaven & Co.'s work, you can write your own client. You can start from where they left off, or you can write your own from scratch!
Nobody is forcing you to use free and open software in ways you don't like.

A site that stores your money and exchanges your money sounds pretty banky to me.

Some of y'all are fuq'n crazy, confict of intrest, yay right. Where Gavin works is none of you concern. And if it is, you have no right to know what Gavin does with his time. What, are you some fascist possing as a free market anarcist? Those of you who have tarnished Gavin's reputation should be ashamed of your selfs. Go ahead, push Gavin. Show him that his work is not appreciated. Then he leaves the bitcoin community because of its politics. Where would that leave bitcoin with no lead developer with the knowledge level that Gavin has? One thing would be for sure, development would slow.

Think about it. If Gavin's taste sours to bitcoin and sweetens to trucoin then where do you think he will spend his time developing? Where would you? If it were me, I would slow my development of bitcoin and see who steps up as the next possible lead developer. If the community pushed hard enough I would just stop developing. Why work for free and get treated like shit when you can work for pay and get treated as if you are appreciated?

If people follow Gavin to trucoin good for them. But this would be a big signal for those with a thinking mind. It would signal that the 'Xcoin' phenomenon is in part based on the talent behind the dominate system. Gavin sees this and so does trucoin and the thinkers in the bitcoin community. This leads to the possible conculsion that Gavin starts his own 'Xcoin'.

The community as a whole has made more money trading btc than Gavin has. It was much of his work that has lead to where bitcoin is today. From development to public speaking. I dont know about you but I hate public speaking. Gavin has given magnitudes more to the bitcoin community than the community has to Gavin. And now that Gavin asks from the community to glance at some text, they are so greedy they make up some unknown to now perceived community infraction to tarnish and start an accusatory witch hunt.

There is to be one set of rules and it is applied to all members of the bitcoin community in the same way. If these rules are not written down anywhere and then are used to tarnish a member, let alone senior member, then that is unjust. Dare I say fascist? The messure of an issue should not have some arbitrary line moved each time an issue occures. Without written community rules no one can have merits accusing another of an infraction against the community. Attempting to do so shows that one is more interested in control than the proclaimed fairness.

Gavin has the right to put what ever he likes in his signature. I for one think that there are only two people in the bitcoin community that have earned the right to wisely choose their signature and Gavin is one of those people. There should not be a separate standard for developers that restricts them. The developers have earned the right if anything, to have less restrictions. To tell developers that we trust your decisions enough to make a system that makes us money but we dont trust your decision for a forum signature is offensive. The affect will be to stifle developer talent. Lets face it, without talented developers bitcoin will wither on the vine.

Lets look the loudest voices against Gavin. Those are users (community leaches?) that are so greedy that just the appearance of the name of another 'Xcoin' sends them into self preservation and fuq the world as long as they 'get theirs'. Contrast that to the developer who spends 100s if not 1000s of hours developing and in some cases community development and out reach.

Gavin, you have the moral duty to rectify this unjust act portrayed upon you, put back the signature containing trucoin. Doing so would show your leadership and prevent a precedent from occuring. If the backlash from the community is harsh, then step back from your volunteer work on bitcoin for a 6-8 months and let the community cool off. It will give those that decent a chance to step up and show that their not just 'hot air'(flatulence).

Those that have the power to correct this unjust tarnishment of Gavin's reputation should show their leadership. Let's not forget precedent was set when this forum allowed conversation of other 'Xcoins' to occure.

I predict that for Bitcoin in the USA (and other countries with adversarial legal system) this is going to be decided by the courts. All it takes is some not-bug-but-feature change in the block acceptance algorithm and somebody with enough bitcoin on the orphaned side of the chain that will get sufficiently pissed off.

My crystal ball shows a lot of billable hours for the vulture lawyer partnerships.

I'm available for consulting and due diligence under the normal commercial terms as a disinterested person.

You are out trolling all the trolls in this forum: you want to be consulting for the financial "institutions" it is so obvious from your "signature"
disinterested... aha aha aha

On one hand, sure it's open source.
On the other hand, it's a very few people that control the client and hence blockchain.
That blockchain is worth ~$41,000,000 at the moment.

Bitcoin (and clones) is far from decentralized, that has been proven quite nicely in the alternative cryptographies forum lately.  He (or they) who control the client wields a tremendous amount of power over the chain.

Nobody controls the client, anyone with skills can join the dev team and contribute.

Finally somebody with a cortex around here.

@viperjbm   "Allow them"?? Who decides? Who decides who gets to decided?

Let me show you the fallacy of your fantisy.

viperjbm I say you cant post to this forum any longer unless you provide this community with your social security number, the license plate number of your car and the time frame your away from your house at work. Oh dont forget to include the days your away from your house at work too. We dont know, you might be a agent provocateur trying to influence this community for a nefarius objective cloaked in the stealth of assisting the community by assassinating the reputation of a senior member of this community.

Dont like that? Does it make you feel vulnerable? Does it make you feel some other way? You dont get to decide how others feel about providing any personal information. What if you say you wont provide that information and I am able to convince this community to enforcing those demands? Would you just leave the community?

Freedom has its price. Sometimes that price is accepting something you dont like or exercising your right not to be apart of that community. Freedom means I have the right not to tell you personal information. Freedom does not mean you have the right to others personal information no matter how it affects others.

viperjbm your view is so myopic you cant see the simple solution. Dont use the protoloc or client that might possiblly be  biased. If the network doesnt adopt the protocol then the protocol is ineffectual and meaningless. This is freedom at work. Those that wont to use protocol X will leave behind those that dont use protocol X. This may lead to a fork of the chain.

I think few people think beyond 3 months. 5 maybe 10 years from now there will many 'Xcoins' and they will be driven ideology,  technology and value. Anyway you cut it btc suffers from two design short comings. One being that there will be too few coins to meet demend, and two, dividing a coin beyond 3 decimal points becomes error prone for the average user. This leaves room in the market for coins that are proportional the the value of btc. Its much easier to pay with 300 'Xcoin' instead of 0.00000300 btc, and the obverse is true.

Until this perceived phantom threat arrives, those calling for greater disclosure are just Chick Littles, wetting their pants claiming the sky is falling.

I personally think it would be bad form for Gavin to pimp the company he works for in his signature, this would be something more suited to a personal bio page. The success of Bitcoin absolutely requires the dev lead to be whiter than white, which IMO Gavin is and always has been.

After reading though, I've changed my position.

Gavin does free work and should be allowed to promote his paid work just like everyone else on the forum.  It's just a signature - it's not like he has a huge thread promoting TruCoin.

I think the forum signature is fine.  If someone wants to promote a competing service, no one is stopping them

This is not a big deal and completely standard in open source communities. We all love the software and so try to find ways to work on it full time.

+1

I don't see how being confronted with real-world uses of a program can hurt a developer. If anything, that will improve his work.

He is very motivated to keep bitcoin up and running, arguably more than if it was just a side-gig.

And him being transparent about it is also good. No reason to have to remove it from his signature...

The latter.

+1. It's great when someone develops wonderful things voluntarily in his spare time. It's even better when someone develops wonderful things as a full-time job.

Now you all know why Satoshi chose to disappear. Some people are more trouble than they're worth.

Is TruCoin involved in mining by any chance ?

Threads like this make me really wish that there was a way for people to sign up to my ignore list directly, and skip the extra steps of them having to write insane garbage and me having to read it.

Be thankful that you're not a mod, then.  Whenever someone clicks, "Report to Moderator" I get a copy of this crap in my email.

Yes, with the lead developer working for a private company it won't be long before the people who control the client are also the people that control the exchanges and ewallets. Then when Bank of America buys a controlling share in Trucoin and winds down the business, you're all fucked.

3 updates to their webpage since August 27th hardly puts me in mind of a hive of activity and exciting new projects they want to tell the world about. Maybe there's no updates since everything they're doing is hush hush rather than free and open, but that's the business world for you I guess...

Stop panicking and spreading unnecessary paranoia.
This is open source world. The "old" ways don't apply.

As long as we have the Bitcoin source, nobody(or everybody) controls the currency. No company can take over an open source project. Ever.

Gavin does not "control the client". He's the figurehead of bitcoin, sure, but everyone with enough time/resources and the necessary skill could fork or and build a better client. If it's much better the original client could be marginalized.

(This happened on other P2P networks as well. Does anyone still use the original bittorrent client?)

So it's really doubtful that there is a conflict of interest here. Just let the man do what he does and mind your own business :p

So, what you're saying is that somebody could do things to the original client that would make it a lesser client, but at the same time create or enhance a forked client?

No, the original client would not become worse. It would simply slowly become less popular. Again, the same happened to bittorrent.

I'm not saying that this will happen, but it means that Gavin's power over bitcoin is not absolute.

Right, the project is still open-source so if Gavin shows us a better client and it becomes popular, then maybe he will get some competition... er, HELP developing the core  ;D

Well the contrasting option would be if bitcoin had wired-in kill switches and backdoors so that he could control the network. Some alternative chains have this. Obviously (and luckily), this is not the case for bitcoin.

I can probably easily detect something very suspicious in code when I analyse small parts of it, and I am not ever a proper C/C++ programmer.

Imagine what an experienced, "everyday-C++" guy can do given a week of time. Perhaps even review entire code for backdoors.

Well, bittorrent was an inclusionary protocol. Bitcoin is the opposite: explicit exclusionary protocol.

Anyway, I just checked the blame on lines 1297 down to 1307:

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blame/master/src/main.cpp

Gavin Andresen had wisely ceded the signature control over checkpoints to fabianhjr. Hopefully Fabian resides in a country that doesn't have an adversarial legal system.

still catching up on the thread, but mysql comes to mind to dispute this..  and wasn't java original open source too?

My crystal ball sees Gavin doing a lot of work developing bitcoin into something great. What is his reward? This thread. He needs *something* Microsoft or Apple can buy to say that bitcoin was their idea all along. He can sell them the Truecoin client, and take a VP title while the bitcoin network continues to evolve as an open source project. Ain't capitalism swell?

Oh my, all the bickering and demands from all these important self-entitled heroes...for Christ's sakes leave the man alone (Gavin). Conflict of interest you say? Can you read the future and predict Gavin will be tempted by self-serving interest? I understand with all the previous fiasco that many are extremely wary about the intentions of others but to overthink a situation to the point of a brain fuck is not likely going to help either. Have a civilized dialog with Gavin as a community and encourage open dialog with the development team.

To all the tough internet rambos, quit attacking him hollwood hero, as its contrary to positive and open dialog...nuff said.

viperjm,

which anus did you just crawl out from motherfucker...pieces of shit like you don't don't deserve to exist. You are precisely the type of lowlife I used to watch get fucking beat up in the navy...shit, if I realized it was you I would have contributed to some of those blows as well.

Go out there and be a man and perform ritualistic suicide you motherfucking ingrate...

"viperjm,

which anus did you just crawl out from motherfucker...pieces of shit like you don't don't deserve to exist. You are precisely the type of lowlife I used to watch get fucking beat up in the navy...shit, if I realized it was you I would have contributed to some of those blows as well.

Go out there and be a man and perform ritualistic suicide you motherfucking ingrate..."

"llo;;l"

I thought so pussy, keyboard warriors like you only got mouth, I've met lots of characters like you before...listen here, jackass if you cant contribute STFU.

@viperjbm

"cant cunturbute? io staurted this arguent dumbares!!  lol"

Because you don't seem to understand your position in a losing argument, I am going to have fun messing with you little man.

Since it appears to me you only have a high school GED, let me make it simple:

1. I made a comment about people not attaking Gavin;
2. I did not specifically address you;
3. You took it upon yourself to attack me;
4. I replied back to you;
5. You replied "cant cunturbute? io staurted this arguent dumbares!!";
6. So who started the argument hero?;
7. Why is it you have a nervous llol;ll and lol are you a little girl?'

No offense but the way you spell are you of african american descent ? or are you american at all ? No I don't care how much posts you have, on the contrary cock sucker, based on the previous comments from you I would assume half of it is pure horse shit. I don't know who you're trying to impress on this board, maybe you have followers but I'm not one of them.

Fire away prick i'm gonna have a little fun with you.

@viperjbm

"lovsls ..... bang :s)"

??????!!!!!- WTF? You have to excuse me...I'm over 40 don't understand 20's speak!!

@Cornedbeefhash
"Of course you realize you sound like a lunatic"

I guess I do. shame on me... I should have said I'm over 40 and don't understand the younger generation's colloquialism.

Well, its been fun guys...but the lady of the house has just imposed curfew upon me  ;D.. Stay out of trouble.

You know, it's relatively easy to guess an approximate age of a person based on the way he talks.

So, nice try pretending  ::)