Bitcoin Forum

Apparently, $38million of clients' money has disappeared from mtgox. Was mtgox hacked? Or did they steal the money to keep themselves afloat?

Source :: http://falkvinge.net/2014/02/04/major-bitcoin-exchange-not-executing-withdrawals-now-owes-clients-38m-in-disappeared-money/

Mtgox support has agreed to this and say this affected only the larger transactions (ofc it did).

Mtgox support reply :: https://support.mtgox.com/entries/26128504-Update-Statement-Regarding-BTC-Withdrawal-Delays

Mtgox better come clean about this soon or the BTC price is gonna keep doing down. Fell $100 in just the past 3 hours.

New Press Release from Mtgox (dated 7th Feb 2014) ::  https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20140207.html

Mtgox has officially stopped all withdrawals. This is not looking good. So we got all our money stuck at a japanese exchange now  :'(

is this the reason for the drop in price?

Weird?

I said this in another thread, but I have a bad feeling that the people at Gox have been using user's funds for themselves and only processing withdraws when there are sufficient new deposits. It was working before because such huge sums of money kept getting deposited, but its starting to pile up. Seems like it could be exactly what Ultimate Bet was doing with online poker player funds. I could be completely wrong, but something is definitely up. Claiming the site was hacked would be an easy out at first..

I'll admit, Mt. Gox crashing isn't all that bad. At least there won't be a ridiculous spread between it and the other more liquid options. Besides, Mt. Gox needed to get smacked down in my opinion.

As for the people affected by this bull crap though. I feel bad for that; no one should have their hard-earned money toyed around with like that. I'm sure we've seen this play out last year when USD withdrawals went to a crawl. Either there is a ton of incompetence afloat or a horrendous amount of scheming about. And those are two choices that just plain sucks...

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/forum/index.php?/topic/700-mtgox-insolvency/

Soon after they had their accounts seized and were seriously short on money, a friend of mine simply lost all his coins out of his online wallet there.  No explanation, no refund, nothing.  Just gone.  About $2,000 worth at the time (25 BTC).

Seems like MtGox is the "Lehman Brothers" of the bitcoin world.
My analysis points out that BTC/USD might crash down to $100

https://i.imgur.com/t09PCEr.png

What software is this? care to share?

Here you are:
https://www.tradingview.com/e/?symbol=MTGOX%3ABTCUSD#

This is curious. Just posted a number of withdrawals of various amounts. The first two smaller ones (<=1.0 BTC) went through quickly and immediately appeared on the blockchain.

Subsequent withdrawals, whether larger or smaller, have failed to appear, despite Mt. Gox producing a transaction hash and emailing it to me.

The long term history of their behavior has been honest, but it appears there is something seriously wrong with the their BTC withdrawal code.

Comment #27 on the article at falvinge.net (http://falkvinge.net/2014/02/04/major-bitcoin-exchange-not-executing-withdrawals-now-owes-clients-38m-in-disappeared-money/) seems to point to a race condition in their withdrawal code, creating transactions which attempt to double spend the same outputs. This can apparently be verified on Mt. Gox's api for their transactions.

This would point toward another technical glitch, rather than fraud.

is it true?

BTC vs USD exchange rates are currently on a free-fall..... So something serious is going on...

How long is MtGox going to be a scab on the face of Bitcoin?

Stop using MtGox people. That was obvious in 2011...

It does seem to be the reason for the drop in price.  Whether the price should drop is not so clear to me, though.  Previously, when Gox only blocked fiat withdrawals, it was obvious that the USD/BTC price should be higher there than on other exchanges.  The bitcoin there were worth just as much, but a "dollar" on Gox was worth less than a real dollar.  However, if both the denominator and the numerator are going to zero, then what is a fair exchange rate between "Gox dollars" and "Gox bitcoin"?

Personally, if I had not abandoned Gox a year ago after they embezzled from me, I would be buying bitcoin there.  Although neither fiat nor bitcoin withdrawals are working as they should now, it's much still much more likely that you'll be able to get your bitcoin out of there than that they'll pay you in fiat.  If anything, I would think that this news should be causing a spike in the price at Gox.  Expect the volatility to keep rising there if they don't resolve this soon.

If this does turn out to be just a massive technical glitch, then the main effect will be to slightly reduce faith in bitcoin generally and thus drive the price down at all exchanges.  On the other hand, it will certainly drive even more people away from Gox, which can only be good for the bitcoin community in the long run, IMHO.

gox had been acting as a hard cap on prices on all other exchanges, I suppose when people realize that it is not possible to withdraw btc from gox, they'll completely ignore their trades.

I just tried to withdraw my bitcoins and they haven't even shown up in the blockchain yet  :-\ Been more than an hour now.

Mtgox can't stop withdrawals as and when they wish. It is our coins! We decide when to withdraw.  >:( >:(

I'm afraid that your coins have already been spent  :-[

Gox: Teaching people the hard way.

Well, all i can do is wait and wait and wait i guess

I've been saying this for months insolvency means taking everyones coins with them......all your coins are mine...

anyone who needs to blow a load because you lost a ton of money check out my sig below  ;D

This is very confusing, rate is keep dropping :(

Gox reinstated my withdrawal capabilities a few hours ago after asking for AML verification paperwork that i gave them years ago. Blamed it on bitinstant arrest. Price crashed within minutes of my account being reinstated. I tried to withdraw 1 btc as a test. Several hours later and still not on blockchain. Fiat and btc now stuck. Hope Gox fixes this if it is fixable.

Hopefully gox can fade away without having a huge impact on the value of bitcoin.  Gox is simply too problematic and it's long overdue for poor servicing bitcoin companies to fade away.  Of course if gox improves the way they service customers then I'm fine if the stick around,  not happy about how many people still use gox though when it's clear gox is ran and managed pretty horribly.

They've got their entire IT department on it!

http://media4.onsugar.com/files/upl1/1/15111/15_2008/zoolander_0/i/Owen-Wilson-Ben-Stiller-Fight-Computer-Zoolander.jpg

Hahah! 

Everything is looking so scammish lately, even projects that seem so legit. Cryptsy, scharmbeck, now gox. Seriously this kind of shit will kill crypto.

just got off IRC with Karpeles.

it's a technical glitch, not insolvency.  they're still working to fix it.

That's a little bit pessimistic. Most alt coins are pretty much scam land, I'll give you that but... Crypsty hasn't scammed people to my knowledge, just a lot of problems with that website (remember when you could withdraw 10 btc or whatever that you didn't even have?). Gox never scammed people, their website just has some technical problems sometimes.

I am not sure this is a good time to "try" to withdraw. You are likely to enter an undefined state with your coins. I will wait.

yes, Karpeles has never stolen from anyone.

in fact, he's covered ppl's losses from his own funds when he was responsible for destroyed coins from his coding errors.  he's always fixed the problems and security has been impeccable since 2011.

he'll get this one fixed too.

Banks are the enemy right? Imagine if you walked into a bank and they said "sorry no withdraws our system is down until who knows when". And then it started happening at a lot of banks, and certain banks would just vanish after you deposited your money would you still have faith in the banking system? Its a big deal.

Shame you didn't snatch a screencap, but I'm inclined to believe this is the most likely case in any event.

HI cypherdoc,

How about the fiat withdrawal he never paid?

we are waiting our money since 4 months now and despite promising us to pay quickly if we pay 5% ,we did accept this and even with this rackettering ,no trace of our money

so can you help on this doc?

A company unable to pay up when it's asked to is insolvent.

MtGox has all thesame symptoms of a bankrun. And we all know the banks run a 'fractional reserve', this means a run on the bank is an dangerous thing.

MtGox in theory shouldn't be a 'fractional reserve' system, but it clearly is.

First it lacked fiat, so it started delaying fiat payments, blaming it on the banks.
Then it started to lack even fiat, so it started selling bitcoins of users to get fiat. (Why do you think price has been stable for a while now even though there's been lots of good news)
Now it lacks bitcoins so it delays bitcoin transfers and blames a technical glitch.

One has to be really blind to not see this unfolding for over half a year already.
I got out my bitcoins as soon as my transfers took a month instead of a day.

Now everyone left is holding the bag...

The numbers in the accounts are all fake, fictional numbers.

It's sad that our brilliant bitcoin has soo many criminals around...

Let me guess he is running Microsoft Windows on his computer. When will people learn that installing GNU/Linux on one's computer and using such computer to store one's bitcoin is a far safer option than storing bitcoin on an exchange.

Unfortunately it is.

This has happened many times in history actually.

38 million is huge money. I think govt will get involved soon restrict bitcoin.

2 police cases have been registered against mtgox already by some big btc holders. I dont think this is going to end well.

This is a classic PONZI scheme.  Don't listen to these idiots on this forum pumping the shit out of bitcoin.  Google "pump and dump". Realistically you are talking about cyber money. You may as well kiss your money goodbye.  Why the f- would the winklevoss guys come out and say they own a grip of bitcoin.... So the rest of you morons buy buy buy and drive the price to 1200.  I feel bad for all of you that put your savings and hard earned money into Monopoly money.  It will collapse soon.  And guess who won't have a bitcoin in their wallet ---- you guesses it... The winklevoss twins, laughing all the way to the bank with your money.  Any website that used to be for trading magic cards is definently a scam!

Your startpoint breaks the prior uptrend.
So many ways to draw a chart.
Essentially, it is a toss up, no pun.

Hey, donate2me, why all of your posts (6 up till now) are all saying bitcoin is ponzi?
Seems like it is the only thing you want to do with this account...

There seems to be some sort of good news... BTC is back up to $875 from $820-825 levels.

I don't really understand why mtgox price go down significantly...

People knew their USD withdrawal would get stuck, but they still want to sell all their bitcoin on mtgox?

Is this your same genius 'analysis' that helped you decide Bitcoin was a Ponzi scheme & that we'd be better off with a government issued asset backed currency.


My eyesight is not great, but I can see you a mile away...

People doing the 'analysis' should remember the environment and public attention to crypto is vastly different than previous cycles. Whether this means a greater drop (regulations and possible 'illegalization') or higher 'stable price' for bitcoin is up in the air - but I am optimistic about the prices and believe it will remain stable above at least 500 long term until the next big push.

Although crashing to 100 would give a great chance to gobble up some cheap coins :)

Lack of demand. New buyers are too scared to buy BTC.

But, why is there demand in the past months, when price was always $100+ higher in mtgox?

Check this thread, everything will be clear.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=420005.0 and this  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=400001.0

mining hardware manufacturers, have no more interest to invest in Bitcoin, and here is the end !!!


MtGox has lost credibility, or at least exchange office does not follow the price at MtGox,
because in November and December of 2013 years, the price MtGox exchange office was allowed to rise without real money. (at push-button up) (great deception)
Now as we can see, MtGox is in big trouble about withdraw money, It is so logical and clearly.

Good news! Mt Gox just processed $2,069,500 of the $38M they hadn't processed earlier: 41,390 (BADTX) x 50 (decrease in exchange rate since last cal. for the $38M fig.) = $2,069,500.

It's like 2013 all over again...

Unfortunately the reality is that they aren't your coins, because you don't control the wallet they are stored in.
You gave Bitcoins to MtGox, they gave you an IOU in return.
You were trusting them to honor that IOU, and therefore valued it the same as the Bitcoins you transferred to them.
That may have been a mistake.

Only to BUY THEM BACK.

I think exchanges should post collateral / make their balances partly public through HD of other means. It's probably not that hard to do. Every exchange with closed books would then suffer from less confidence. This would be much more efficient than any local regulation.

I have no idea about their intentions. But it is very easy to see that technically they are not up to the ask. Just a couple of examples:

* use of SQL. the use of standard databases does not make much sense. SQL lets you do row selections on large tables. an exchange is not just a random large table. if even you hand optimize SQL you don't really know what you're doing.

* use of HTTP. GET/POST'ing orders is pretty inefficient. why would use want to use HTTP? there is this thing called the internet where we have TCP/IP. HTTP does not allow for the complex interaction between nodes that is needed (heartbeating as a basic example).

* the API. terrible design.

noted, the same applies for all major exchanges at the moment, but the others seem to have at least a rough idea what they are doing in terms of software engineering. it looks like MtGox doesn't even have proper test procedures. not even speaking about complex race conditions and latency issues. I haven't studied it, but I'm sure most exchanges can be attacked/gamed, not speaking of outright hacks. I would assume exchanges are a high value targets for blackhats. Wasn't there also the claim that MtGox withholds 30-50M$ from some past issue?

It was possible to withdraw BTC out of Mt.Gox in the past

Lol yup it is an interesting situation. Can't get fiat out nor bitcoin. Luckily for me I have $0.01 on there.  ;D

You really think bitcoin could crash to 100$? Or just rumors and panic again?
Don't use mtgox thought!!!!

I am almost sure Gox is fractional reserve in BTC and FIAT.

I feel something has to give here, and once this is sorted out, it will be the next impetus to an evaluation even like what happened after SR1 went down.

So cheap coins then explosion in price.

You just can't have problems sending BTC, thats the whole point of the protocol.

Unless you don't have BTC to send.

this is a very good idea, there is not reason why an exchange could not publish all BTC received and thats verifiable. This would attract a lot more confidence to that exchange and thus volume.

then the next side would be how much fiat they hold but thats easier to lie about. The question is how much BTC/FIAT is off the market but on the exchange ready to go.

Yes - Ethereum.

Is it really verifiable?
You have no way of knowing whether transfers out of a wallet are customer withdrawals, transfers to another exchange wallet, or siphoning off of funds.

Panic sell happening?

Yeah, Ethereum-scam-team cashed out their 36 millions from the IPO.

They are now having a good time, really good time.

And Price drops...like it always does when something happens to MtGox.

It is an experiment how a Bank Run or self regulated virtual financial world occurs on BTC world.

Nothing can make BTC more safe than improving the core technology itself.

The cost of lawyers and politicians participations is the fundamental cost of trust that collapse the FIAT world where monetary system cannot be trusted unless the terms "legal tender" which means the trust is none except by brute force of legal tender status.

There are few concepts which deter monopoly centralize mining power and introduce trust on the merchant reputations payment address.  MT GOX is the most reputable exchange and under attack.  After the event is over, BTC will hit new high and possibly rise 10 folds against FIAT where BTC can resolve problems unseen in FIAT world.

BTC quickly losing popularity.

http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/637/3446942191.png (http://easycaptures.com/3446942191)View Screen Capture (http://easycaptures.com/3446942191)

http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/637/7436452349.png (http://easycaptures.com/7436452349)View Screen Capture (http://easycaptures.com/7436452349)

I've got 17btc that I withdrew 5 days ago. They have still not appeared in my wallet...

Amazing that people prefer to withdraw BTC instead of USD.

you need a scheme for that. problem is, as was noted, the fiat part. one could go even as far as have a completely transparent system, so that fiat movements can be inferred  (orderbook is public, so you have the total balance).

That Gox and Karpeles are total fail for BTC community, shame on them ! Every single massive crash in bitcoin history was because of incompetence of Mt.Gox ... every single one. One year ago after april crash i remember that I was reading statements, that they are working on some new trading engine ... bull.shit.  Like always from their side. I am glad that I left back then. If they declare bankruptcy, fasten your seat belts ...  ::)

No, the last one was because of China.

FTFY.

So what exchange do you guys recommend for exchange into euros? According to bitcoinaverage.com MtGox holds 50% of the BTC-EUR market volume... Better use bitcoin.de or kraken? I would use btc-e, but you have to withdraw at least 500€ and the fees are minimum 100€! Somebody have a recommendation?

I would only use an exchange as a last resort if there is no possibility of a local p2p trade.

LocalBitcoins.com

This.

I had been slowly withdrawing BTCs from Gox since 2012 and had my first issue with the very last withdrawl in early January. They got me my coins eventually but it was a bit scary and they were unresponsive until i woke up one morning with a deposit in my local wallet. They had the best trading platform at the beginning, and had good yubikey/2FA security. I hope they get it resolved, I truly don't believe they are/were fractional reserving, that would be a very, very dumb thing to do. I also hope they get their issues with the US Govt sorted out and USD withdrawals get back on track. As you can see, I'm full of hopes but keeping a skeptical eye on this.

The next coming Bitstamp scam, then BTC-e scam and game is over.

I just got verified on Mtgox, but with all the stories I hear and all the negativity about the website I don't think I will buy/sell bitcoins there

Can you keep us update on when you receive your BTC?

Definitely stay far away from Mt.Gox. I only recommend Bitstamp... for lower volume transactions Kraken is OK too.

http://www.commodityblog.com/mtgox-withdrawal-problems-solution-in-sight/

https://i.imgur.com/xybdK8Y.png

No, it's not amazing because the BTC withdraw should theoretically show up in minutes, whereas the USD withdraw takes days, and in cases of Gox it takes months...

Agreed but the spread in Spain (or Madrid at least) is awful. People are greedy.

This one really cracked me up. I still cant understand why people are using Gox, just cut your losses and move on.

ROFL!  ;D ;D ;D

Are BTC withdrawals completely down for everyone now?  I am surprised there is not a bigger stick going on around here.  I know a lot of idiots like me still use Gox for trading/diversification.  I am waiting 6 hours now for a 1 BTC withdrawal.

Which channel do you find him on? I've looked occasionally and don't see him on the obvious ones.

I agree that the available public record of the withdraw transactions supports the idea that it is most likely a technical glitch.

Nonetheless, that exchange really needs to clean up its professional act.

So you are really buying the fact that it is a technical glitch that it is only affecting the  "larger" withdrawals?

Actually, if you check the transactions they are trying to post, which is available on the public api, it turns out they are trying to post invalid transactions which spend the same output twice. See comment 27 on the Falvinge article at
Comment #27 on http://falkvinge.net/2014/02/04/major-bitcoin-exchange-not-executing-withdrawals-now-owes-clients-38m-in-disappeared-money/ .

So not only is it possible, but Mt. Gox found a way to do so on a massive scale!

As I posted previously, it appears to affect both small and larger withdrawals. Though larger withdrawals, which have to draw inputs from a larger number of other transactions might have a greater probability of using some outputs which have already been used.

The comment on the article I linked to just above
(Comment #27 on http://falkvinge.net/2014/02/04/major-bitcoin-exchange-not-executing-withdrawals-now-owes-clients-38m-in-disappeared-money/ ) has a pretty good discussion of what is likely happening.

A very frustrating and annoying situation due to incompetence, but I suspect not malice.

I've been tracking several threads on this and the overall feeling seems to be 'unfathomable incompetence' rather than 'straight up Ponzi scam.'

Well if you use MtGox you're still using banks, bitcoin has not much to do with that.

I, too, want to quote the best post on this thread, sans resizing the epic pic.

Yes, while it likely is hard to properly sort the transactions and which outputs to use and then having to wait for acceptance on the chain before using the change, it can be done in a proper multi-threaded way. Not properly testing software in such broad use on a test network with good stress testing is a bit ridiculous if it wasn't done. OTOH, race conditions in multi-threaded programs are some of the hardest to debug.

However, this story did give me pause... I'm pretty sure this was Gox, I've seen these sorts of transactions go through in the past month.   http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1wtbiu/how_i_stole_roughly_100_btc_from_an_exchange_and/

ROTFL!  I bet it was Gox.  What a bunch of goobs.

I had estimated that by this time Mt. Gox would have hired some competent engineers, especially considering all the problems they've suffered in the past.  Bzzzt.  Thankfully I drew all my funding to zero some months ago since by that time it looked like my estimates were in error.  And, of course, for Americans they are largely useless to use for almost anything resembling and exchange or a reliable and forthright business partner.

Why would anyone have 0.00000001BTC at MtGox? You can't withdraw so the only point would be to trade and speculate - but why leave anything you care about there when you are done trading! When do people learn to keep their own money in their own wallets?

My bet at the moment would be technical glitches worsened by more people trying to withdraw though - if MtGox was going to run they probably would've done so a while ago.

I'm looking for answers as to why KNC, coin terra, butterfly labs, hash fast , etc don't actually sell anything.  They just take thousands of dollars from people trusting they will get a money making machine.  I'm sorry but I don't buy into this.  And now that mt gox is being revealed as a Ponzi scheme,  it just seem very suspicious.  Someone is making a grip of money,  which means that thousands of people have to lose money!  Good luck to all!

Believe it or not, but there are people out there, who find information channels, like this forum, too complex to comprehend. There are people out there who are used to getting their information from the evening news, and if some of them lose their path and wonder to the world of bitcoin, then they will get their information from places like bitcoin.org. Places that are still recommending MtGox as the first choice of exchanges.. There is no clear central information network about the integrity of different exchanges.
And if you are saying "to hell with those people, they are stupid and deserve it", then you are saying to hell with bitcoin. Because these kind of people are still the majority of society, and these people would be the future of bitcoin if bitcoin has a future.
Don't be an elitist snoob with the fact that you get your information by more complex methods. That will scare away those who you see as inferior, and then they don't want to play bitcoin with you anymore..

People generally assume that there is fraud afoot because no one can believe that they can possibly be as incompetent as they are. 

By the way, its not just large withdrawals.  I tried to withdraw 1 BTC today, going on 12 hours now and it still has not gone through.  I don't think any withdrawals at all are happening.  You would think they would stop withdrawals until they figure it out, or make an announcement, but alas, read the first sentence above.

Well my .8 ish BTC withdrawal has been pending for over an hour for me now.

It's amazing how many incompetent programmers there are in the world. ;)
I've worked with enough of them.

BTC now $759 in Mt Gox, and $736 in Bitstamp....

I'd expect a massive dump if/when Mt. Gox finally starts delivering BTC.

I'll bet that a lot of people already had the money spent in their minds.  When Mt. Lox locked it up, I'll bet that a great many of them suddenly realized how at-risk and 'virtual' their winnings actually are and decided to cash out some when they got a chance.  They'll do so in a panic.

(ya, ya...belongs on speculation...I know...)

Don't forget tens of thousands of coins held hostage from the bitcoinica debacle and even resisting to make them available to a court appointed liquidator? I still hope Gox will be sued for this by the liquidators and big investors' funds. In my view Karpeles is a crook.

The rats are leaving the sinking bitcoin ship & the unreliable MtGox...
After all bitcoin is just a ponzi scheme, you profit as long as there are greater fools who buy your coins at a higher dollar-price.

From an idealist point of view a coin should be free and instead the coin should gain it's value as an IOU for the delivery of goods or services, for example gold.

Has anyone thought about maybe Mark K is simply taking a vacation? I hear he's been trying to visit this pretty beach for some time now.

http://www.cubavacationstravel.com/cubamaps/maps/Guantanamo/guantanamo_bay_US_naval_base.jpg

Da Da Dum Dum Dum - Another One Bites The Dust

New press release from gox https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20140207.html

Sent with MtGox btc, none came, in blockchain can not see them, it took 9:00 that might be?

Used a translator :(

Water skiing, surf boarding, oh boy what fun!

Wrong.. Bitcoin has nothing to do with Ponzis whatsoever. Read up on Ponzis and don't stop at the wikipedia headline. MtGox however could be much more similar to what you are talking about if accusations would prove to be true. Still wouldn't count as Ponzi though. But if they took traders' deposits to pay out withdrawals or traded on their own account (as a bank was doing in the mid 90s, true story - see the movie rogue trader with Ewan McGregor) and artifically helped to push up the bitcoin price, yeah it's close to a Ponzi.

None of this has to do with Bitcoin as such though. There are now lots of other big exchanges and if Gox should go away, Bitcoin will continue to prosper.

You got the address wrong. Here is the correct one. http://tinyurl.com/MtCocks (http://tinyurl.com/MtCocks)

They are a Gold Member of the Bitcoin Foundation, how come people do not trust them?   :D

Wait...what???? I thought php could do anything? At least that's what Mark said once upon a time. Maybe they finally turned on their LTC support and it borked their homebrew BTC client?

Shocking incompetence but really just another in a long line of cock ups.

Lol. Exactly.  :D Trust this guy! Gives great speeches for the BBC on behalf of Bitcoin. NOT https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=451635.msg4989635#msg4989635

Also leaks sourcecodes for huge shorting platforms since 2012.

Who's bitsimple?

I think I saw tangible cryptography somewhere before.  US based scary a bit but I'll check em out.  Thanks.

As usual? lol

I guess in that sense they are consistently incompetent in keeping their customers unable to utilitze their "system's" functionality to its fullest.

1. Can't get fiat out in any meaningful way - CHECK

2. Can't get Bitcoin out in any meaningful way - CHECK

3. You can still buy and sell bitcoins using MTGOXUSD (and other fiat) and pay them trading fees - CHECK

4. All is well - CHECK

Damn now there you go making the decision harder.  Russian mob vs US govt.  Better flip a coin just to be on the safe side.

People use Mt Gox because the owners are known to everyone... unlike the BTC-E.

Do ya really want to add a cancer like MTGOX to Litecoin's rep? I would think not.

But I know you are kidding. lol

I guess they also use MTGOX because they will accept your USD wire but claim they can't send out USD wires in any meaningful timeframe right?

Functionality is 100% there...nothing to see here  ::)

Point taken, seems u r right. Shame on Bitcoin Foundation ruled by bunch of scam artists...

At least in the case of Mt Gox, at least we know against whom we should file the court case.

It's going to be a long weekend for MTGOX users.

Or just dont use exchanges and do in-person transactions.

Only if you have the necessary pocket money, which in many cases could be more than what Gox owes you.

If you ask me their claim is nothing but an attempt to buy more time.

If they can stop BTC withdrawals that stops their "bank" from becoming insolvent in the short-term.

One possibility is that it's an attempt to drive the price below other exchanges in order to attract more fiat once the "technical difficulties" magically resolve themselves.

People still use MtGox? Geesh, some never learn.

While listening to Iron Maiden with the Scavenger's Daughter on the beach, somebody'll be tightening the Thumbscrews on The Wheel that's turning The Rack of Brazen Bull, of which will be served up with Stake and Choke Pears prior to a fun game of Pillory.

My only question is, why weren't tickets made available via pre-orders?

Gox was my entry portal to btc in march. i tried to withdraw some $ in august and waited 8 weeks. nothing happened so i reconverted to BTC and promptly sent to wallet, left $2 usd there as a placeholder. All the warning signs were there that  the place was in disarray. there's a commandment laying around that i paraphrase: "If you do not answer a question properly, with good manners and in due time, you flunk."

I've lost some coin in this and other ventures but never twice, or a significant amount because i'm alert at the response time of the person/corporation i'm dealing with...

A while back i read the interview of the Gox guy... He gave the interview sitting on a bounce ball... Obviously a person totally out of his depth, perhaps semi autistic... this will delay the coming of age of the whole criptocoin ecology. Suits me fine. Gives me time to enter at cheaper prices.

BTC is going below $650... I am concerned.  >:(

I highly, highly, doubt Gox is going belly up. They handle an enormous volume both in trade and deposit/withdrawals. Obviously there is some sort of issue that needs to get solved. Maybe there is some sort of issue that only crops up with very large withdrawal volume. Either way, chill out. :-)

mah bum hurts.


that chart from earlier and that channel... time will tell

My guess is massive support 150-180 if it's there's enough 'bad' news at once.

This is a great time to be alive  :)


People are overly scared so the market will go up instead....LOL.

Their death is long overdue though.

Your money does vanish when you deposit it into a bank, everyone just try and withdraw your Money on the same day  ::)

A guy who banked with HSBC recently tried to withdraw £7000 from his account to give to his mother - was told he needed a written signed letter confirming it from said mother.

In the bigger picture, I don't understand why people are surprised. There have been warning signs for years.

First, they were a playing cards exchange that jumped ship to get into this later as an after thought because it was more profitable for them.

Second, lets go back to 2011, when an auditor's account was hacked and 2000 BTC were stolen.

Third, openly manipulating the market by simply shutting down their exchange for a "cooldown" period. TWICE!

Fourth, this is not new. They have been having problems since mid 2013. Such as being sued for $75 million dollars by CoinLab and US Feds seizing $5 million in assets because they were not registered in the US as money transmitters back in May, suspending USD withdrawals in June, USD withdrawals not working when they resumed in July, a claim of massive losses in August from crediting deposits before they actually cleared. The buffer they had ran out, and now we're at where we're at.

Fifth is that their exchange rate has always been so much higher than that of all the other exchanges which more or less tracked around the same level. Now, yes, there can be variance in exchange rates dependent on local currency value and exchange volume and other such factors, but it never really did make sense that their exchange alone consistently was 20%+ better than everyone else. It always smelled of price manipulation, but most users never bothered to care because it worked in their favor, or so they thought. There is a saying: "If it seems to good to be true, it probably is!"


So whats happening now? USD withdrawals were never fixed, only got worse and effecting other fiat's too. Insolvent with millions of dollars missing. Their CEO has disappeared as of yesterday. And now BTC withdrawals are suspended. Technical issues? Yeah right. BTC was the only thing of value MtGox possessed, and that was quickly going away as everyone started buying/withdrawing coins since they couldn't get their fiat out, so of course they shut that off.

I'm sorry that a lot of people got and will get screwed. But the writing has been on the wall for a while. They are an inexperienced and shady exchange and always have been. But too many people were (and some still are, I think) in denial of this.

This "temporary" BTC withdrawal suspension (as if it was working recently) is only a way to stop the run on their wallet of BTCs.

Come Monday, if they have not fixed the issue, I would presume it isn't a technical one but more of an insolvency issue.

If we can finally get rid of The Gox Issue once for all, that will pave the way to a solid, sustainable growth in the following months.

As far as I'm concerned they had lost my trust and I stopped using them on that famous day of April 2013 ;)

Cypress Hill ~ When The Ship Goes Down ^.^

but this for fiat has been join of for 6 months now.

I'm sure they are near full fractional reserve now which is a polite way of saying not fiat no btc,which means no pro its tom trading either because taking 0.2% from fake fiat or fake BTC = 0 profit

I live in Japan so I though mtgox was the most convenient exchange to use. Well, it took them 2 months to verify my account, that`s how swamped and understaffed they were. That made me too suspicious to wire them any money.

Seems like they`ve just gotten way too big for the systems they had in place and don`t know what the fuck to do.

Hmm... they verified my account in 2 days, and I live outside Asia. Why your verification took so long?

This is why exchanges needs to stop running in hobby mode and get serious. I wouldn't be surprised if we see the price of bitcoin fall to a new low and that people who are on MtGox move away from MtGox all together and start using some of the other exchanges instead.

I am surprised there isn't a stick on exchanges and their overall rating on this form, so that it gives people an alternative look to where they can do their trading if they don't like the exchange they are using, such as MtGox who is fracked everyone over 38 million in bitcoin trading. If a normal exchange did this the securities commission would come down on them hard!

Bitcoin needs to become less as a hobby and more like a serious currency.

A short video showing daserpent1 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=102671) in front of his PC right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwN5so86VNI

For everyone who wants to sell - watch this video and calm down: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTjyRu88PRE

Wow that's exact what Max Keiser has been saying about the exchanges. They simply don't care, Max believes the exchanges needs to change before bitcoin has the slightest change of becoming more stable.

Great story I recommend everyone read it. And if anything if you have bitcoins in MtGox I would take out of them, even if they are in cold storage. There are other places and other technology to put your bitcoins into cold storage.

It is indeed pretty easy to set up a cold wallet with armory.  :)

Watch out INTERPOLs red notice list on Monday evening or Tuesday morning.
Requests (>1) are from the USA.

Was leaked by an well respected french IT security consultant in an private hacking-related chatroom.

pastebin? reminds me of the JA case. interpol = USpol.

After reading the story below (it was posted by someone in this thread) I realized one of the things that is mentioned is the problems that MtGox is having with the banks. What is the main reason why there is a back log in bitcoin trades is because the banks and governments have decided to not accept any money from MtGox anymore that they are holding them up.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1x9gue/my_protest_at_mtgox_offices_5_to_7th_february

"Q1. What is causing the withdrawal delays?
• Well, because Gox is the best known of all the exchanges, we have been under the regulatory spotlight.
• This has created problems with government agencies, and also with our banking partners.
• There are also some ongoing investigations, which we cannot talk about."

I think if this is the case and the banks and the governments are tying up their bank accounts it would be in the best of interest of MtGox to explain themselves as things could turn around more in their favor, instead of giving people their bullshit.

So what does this mean? Interpol could be looking for Bill Gates for a we know.

This sounds more like a fear mongering attempt by you!

Edit: actually financial fraud is a reason some notices are issued, but it seems there is plenty of stuff going on behind the scenes. this happened before in Europe, where banks/governments effectively attack an exchange to spur a bank-run.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1x9gue/my_protest_at_mtgox_offices_5_to_7th_february/

info about interpol notices:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpol_notice

Currently 278 red notices outstanding, 160 issued by the US

http://www.interpol.int/notice/search/wanted

Good point :) A lot of creativity - very little documentation. Who jumps on a plane without an appointment? Does a trip from Australia to Japan really take 16 hours?

Maybe the guys is one of the early investors of bitcoin that he's got a lot at stake, and flying out to Tokyo is just a drop in the bucket for him money wise. Not a lot of us are like that but some people are, and the ones who have had enough of MtGox BS I could see doing something like that.  :)

hopefully Bistamp is not gonna have these kind of issues soon :-\ ....

do not even tell, all my savings are there.

Anyway, why there is no angry customer going to Japan to "meet" Mt gox rich nerds? if i were an mt gox customer i would do that. I want to see the face of who is stealing my money.

exactly, there must be reward on their heads allready.....:)

However why keeping your money with online broker? Just buy BTCs, transfer it to your (one or more) wallet(s) of your choice and when selling (for fiats) do the reverse and transfer fiats to you trusted bank account.

MtGox is dead!

https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20140207.html

Yes and more precisely, here's where they jumped the shark:


Snapshot anyone? ::)

If morons didn't figure out that mt gox is shady, what exchange or bank keeps limiting withdrawals? Ohh i know the ones who are having bank runs like Cyprus banks and about to go bankrupt.

THEY ARE NOT HAVING TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES, they just don't have enough cash to support people withdrawing massive amounts of money.

Gox's fractional reserve system coming to an end finally. Buckle up.

Long live MtGox!

To hell with Gox, Localcoins is where it's at.

Could someone explain to me why Gox has a much higher price for BTC. Someone offered an explanation once that it was one of the only exchanges that Europe and Asia could use easily?

It was very enticing to sell my BTC on Gox and rebuy through other exchanges until I saw the monthly Withdrawal limits.

This is just a thought...

... possible deep speculation, but can anyone join these dots up?

The arrest of The BitInstant CEO occurred on Feb 3rd, just before these other issues began with MtGox,
here is the MtGox press Release.

https://support.mtgox.com/entries/26563440-MtGox-Response-to-BitInstant-CEO-Arrest

It seems there has been an increase in regulatory pressure on MtGox since then (starting more or less exactly then).

I am not sure of the exact charges of the BitInstant CEO, or what his relationship to MtGox is, but is it possible there is a link between the BitInstant event and regulatory action against MtGox?

Any ideas? or am I way off?

Well they did say there are some ongoing investigations that they can't comment on... I wouldn't be surprised if the shit is going to hit the fan for them very soon. I don't care, I just want my btc!

Fiat deposits work to gox? Maybe can buy some btc when it hits 100$

cause when i think bitcoins I think of Magic: The Gathering

I've no doubt that Shrem's (hours long) incarceration is not an insignificant part of the story, but Mark has been saying that he cannot say anything about anything for a long time now.  Almost as if he was under a gag order of some sort...

The big shift I saw came at the time the Coinlab deal fell through and came to a head.

Vesseness (who continues as the chairman of the board of the Bitcoin Foundation BTW) is well aware of the wealth of data that Mt. Gox has, and is also favorably disposed toward coin tracking and blacklisting.  Even retro-actively and even just by virtue of using a mixing service at all.  He made that abundantly clear at the SJ 2013 conference and warned against using any mixing service for this reason.

If I had to pick the top most likely 'business' to have been started from scratch by some state organ for the purposes of 'disrupting' Bitcoin, it would be Coinlab.  If this is the case, the failure to acquire Mt. Gox's books must have been a truly infuriating setback and could have triggered a robust response...including but not limited to the appropriation of Marks $5M + $5M.

I propose we ignore their "Mt.Gox" rebranding efforts and insist on calling them "Magic: The Gathering Online eXchange" in full.

This will reinforce to potential customers that they're really just a video game trading card circle jerk.

Trust-based exchanges need to die. There are alternatives.

LOL.  I'm curious who offered this explanation.  The price at Gox is higher, because withdrawing fiat is more difficult at Gox than at the most reputable exchanges.  "USD" in your Gox account were, in effect, worth less than USD in an account that you could withdraw with confidence and without undue delay.  

This is why the sudden drop in the price premium between MtGox and other exchanges over the past 48 hours is so troubling.  It's not because "Gox USD" are worth more than they were last week; evidently "Gox BTC" are now worth less than real BTC, because people are no longer confident that they will be able to move their bitcoin out of MtGox.

for the advancement of bitcoin, mtgox need to fold

looks like some issues with coinbase too Someone is getting rich.
http://gizmodo.com/hackers-have-stolen-40-000-from-bitcoins-biggest-wall-1518184070

Its unrelated. And its a user error, not the same thing. Stop posting crap that you cant read idiot

It is now below other exchanges.  If one were prone to tinfoil hat theories one could think that previously mtgox was intentionally not letting out fiat in order to self deal by buying XBT elsewhere and selling for a large premium or perhaps even selling XBT they never had.  Once the rush died down and it was time to deliver the XBT they don't have, they simply froze XBT withdrawals and will now start buying back for their own accounts at prices below other exchanges.  It wouldn't be a big surprise if prices on Gox go significantly below other exchanges for a while that the XBT withdrawal problems will magically resolve themselves.

It sure sounds like MTGOX is insolvent: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1x9gue/my_protest_at_mtgox_offices_5_to_7th_february/

what a great scam though... to run off with all those BTC and be essentially untraceable.

Yep, the money may be untraceable. Mark Karpeles is not. I hope he will face some judicial consequences.

Hahahahaha. Quoted because this is just to funny to let get lost in the thread!

So I'm guessing we're not getting litecoin integration?   ;D

Mt Gox in a nutshell:

-You can deposit BTC or fiat
-You can trade BTC vs Fiat
-You CANT withdraw BTC or fiat

so you are basically trading with playomoney and the real BTC and fiat is going to some other account?

Feels like kind of ponzi scheme to me...

so when they are bankrupting officialy????

I wrote a whole article about this.

http://www.thedailycrypto.com/2014/02/mt-gox-halting-all-withdrawls-bitcoin.html

I really think we need to start up some new exchanges....

Step 1. Move out of US
Step 2. Discard your US citizenship
Step 3. ...

LOL for the first time ever 1 BTC is more expensive at BTC-E than MtGox!

MtGox: 665 USD
BTC-e:  700 USD

It could mean that people are selling their bitcoins at mtgox to withdraw their fiat money, if they are lucky.

This "crash" brings a good cause.... GOX is DONE for good.
I say, fck them. And if Mark is smart, he better have facial surgery and change his name.

Just looked at BitcoinAverage, MtGox still holds 33% of the BTC/USD and 55% of the BTC/EUR market volume. Either people are really dumb or just trading like crazy because they know they won't see their money back anyway. Hopefully this will be less soon.

Anybody was able to withdraw from Mt.Gox

Here's a possible explanation as to the "technical" issues that MtGox has been suffering.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1x93tf/some_irc_chatter_about_what_is_going_on_at_mtgox/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1x93tf/some_irc_chatter_about_what_is_going_on_at_mtgox/)

In short, Mt Gox wrote their own custom wallet software, which only worked because of a bug in early versions of bitcoin. The bug was fixed in a recent release. This would cause transactions sent from Gox to fail.

A group of people, thinking that they were being helpful set up relay servers that would take the transactions from Gox, fix them to work around the bug, and then rebroadcast the fixed transactions. The transactions could reuse the same signature (as they were the same transaction), but would be allocated a new TxID.

A second bug in Gox's wallet meant that their wallet client only checked it's own TxIDs, and never scanned the blockchain for other TxIDs on its coins. As a result, it is possible that the wallet ran dry, but the actual wallet client didn't notice, and transactions would block because of attempted double-spend.

Yeah, even though Gox will have a hard time regaining the trust lost over the past months, I'm at 70-80% that this issue is indeed mostly a technical one. It seems plausible - though the resulting chaos might turn a stumble into a fall.

Also the "simple" explanation seems to be that transactions with multiple inputs are more likely to run into a double-spend and not being relayed to the blockchain. It's kinda obvious if this is what's going on - when a 1BTC withdrawal from Gox draws from 50 addresses it is much more likely that the withdrawal will fail due to one of the inputs already used on the blockchain. This doesn't mean Gox doesn't have 1BTC - it just means Gox doesn't have 1BTC on the address it thought it did.
I just don't get why they haven't unforked their crappy spinoff yet. It'll cost them millions in bad PR.

When under pressure it's always better to use something tested as the core and build on top of that. In IS development it is ALWAYS better and cheaper to do it right the first time around.

The only good thing about this situation is that now Mtgox is the most secure wallet in the world, in fact it is 100%impossible for an hacker to take your money from your gox wallet.

I think I am going to put all of my btc on gox right now, I love such a level of security.

Not that secure if they already stole the coins   :-\

mtgox is dead. NO withdrawals for both fiat and bitcoins.

I would gladly sell my bitcoins on mtgox for 85% its current value if anyone is interested.

^^And that's why the price is dropping like crazy.

I wonder if people have started selling off their Gox accounts for 50% to people who still trust them. Personally I think that'd be a good gamble. Not interested in actually doing it though :)

i offer 10%

It will go back up. The problem is not bitcoin itself but one of the exchanges. People selling now are mostly those running away from gox. They want to switch to fiat so in case Gox goes to hell they can at least sue them for currency theft. Whatever happens to Gox the price will recover eventually, the investors will just move to other exchanges.

Please have some common sense.  These fraudsters plain out robbed people of $38 million because they knew they could get away with it.  The only theft that occurred was an internal theft at their own hands.  All the $$$ they were getting from the transaction fees and artificially manipulating the price of Bitcoin wasn't enough.  Greed will be the downfall of this movement not the regulators.


Thankfully, as soon as I saw the $100 discrepancy between MT GOX and the rest of the exchanges back in December, I knew something was off and stayed the hell away from GOX.  

Good News! You are probably wrong.   :)


It's a technical issue they are not stealing that much money.

As much as I dislike Mt. Gox for their serial incompetence and communication failures, they’re not insolvent or frauds. No evidence of that

A whole community speculating over what is going on over the weekend is not doing mtgox or the Bitcoin exchange rate any good... They really should release more progress reports if they want to regain some trust - even if they get it up Monday and are ready for a bezillion withdrawals.

If Gox does go down it would make the mainstream media news first and that would throw back adoption for months to say the least. This is why the price is already going down right now.

Perhaps they're hoping bitcoin finds a bottom this weekend thus insuring fewer customers will make a run on the MtGox wallet when withdrawals are re-enabled on monday.

To me, it doesn't make much sense that MtGox is actually insolvent and ran out of BTC.  If they are truly spending customers' funds, what is the point?  Did they really think this could continue indefinitely?  I just don't believe they are so foolish to use all customers' BTC.

The only logical scenario I can think of to justify their spending is that they lost so much money from the government investigation, they were forced to dip into BTC funds in order to pay their fiat debts.  Because BTC prices on their site became so much higher, the amount of people actually depositing fiat continued to decrease.  Why would someone put their fiat on Gox to buy BTC at 15-20% higher rates than Bitstamp?

It's still a bizarre situation.  If this company was truly able to go bankrupt, it means they acted extremely unethically.  Based on the fees accumulated and low overhead costs involved in such an organization, there is no justifiable reason for them not backing the deposits on their service.  There is no justifiable reason that Mt. Gox should have anything less than 100% reserve of every single user's deposits on hand.

Is that the reason bitcoin droped so much ?

Just delete the private keys and save yourself the trouble.

“I think just witnessed Mt Gox die today. I didn’t get my bitcoin, but glad I came and tried.” - Reddit user ‘CoinSearcher’, after conducting a three-day protest at Mt. Gox’s headquarters in Tokyo.
This is the best article I could find that explains it in detail. http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-first-bitcoin-exchange-dead/

Does anyone even use mtgox anymore besides newbs?

I thought it was already well known among crypto enthusiasts to not trust mtgox?

Why would they keep their API up through this if they did not want the price to fall?

Something's going on...

My public address (that one down there), I put the private key into mtgox. I had my reasons, and the risk was small given that it rarely sees any funding!
Anyway, it's been collecting dust over the past year, really small amounts. Up until today they've just sat there. All of a sudden, today, this dust has been swept up by mxgox.

I find this interesting.

I'm just pissed the coinbase asking rate has been stuck at 698 all damn day.  Seems as though they're hedging quite a bit.


Give me btc at 650 and I'm a buyer!

Is it possible that MtGox is applying the classical "Fractional Reserver Banking" and they are experiencing their first "Bank Run"?

A theory:
They assumed most people won't withdraw their fiat or bitcoins, so they sold bitcoins they didn't have to their clients.
They maybe had 10-20% of all bitcoins they sold to clients, but they didn't expect the bitcoin price to rise so much and so quickly...
Maybe part of the huge rally from 200$ to 1200$ was due MtGox need to cover for all the bitcoins they sold but didnt have?

One of the biggest problems which Mt. Gox has, in addition to technical incompetence, is a lack of transparency about what is going on.

ive never had my btc in gox, but im really feeling for those people stuck in there now, its tragic ...  whats our wonderful bitcoin foundation saying about this ??? anything ??

my thoughts exactly, historys first crypto bank run ...

the more things change the more they stay the same

central banking at its best

They are a waste of time.

mt goldman sachs

Countdown is begun,

Tokio/Japan GMT, 23:55
Peking/China  GMT, 22:55

A bank run is scary because the bank can't pay everyone, so you want to be first in line. Gox should have all the money/coins, so even if 100% of users want to cash out, it should be possible without trouble. Of course, in practice cashing out has been almost impossible for months so I don't see how a bank run could happen, there is nowhere to run to or from ! The first in line have cashed out long ago.

This is why you should never keep all your coin in one place in an emerging market like this.

Someone with industry experience needs to come in and lead the way - bitstamp.net seems like a good alternative.

It does seem strange that MtGox would stall a one of the highest trading days..

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bitstamp.net is excellent.

from my personal experience, both bitcoin deposits/withdawals and USD deposits/withdrawals are fast.

Normally from an eu country bank, they receive a usd deposit in 1-2 days, and you will receive a usd withdrawal from bitstamp bank to your bank in just 1-2 days

Several exchanges have this problem which prevents the adoption of bitcoins globally.

Another 5 dust payments has been sucked up by MtGox with no fee... gonna take a while for those to clear!

So if it's a general wallet issue, why are deposits still allowed?

What does this have to do with all the other issues. Like USD withdrawals not working for 8+ months and lost funds from other issues like crediting deposits before they cleared.

What does that have to do with all the new lost funds issues this excuse creates?

Where is their CEO?

Where is the money.

The last question is the big one. They claim they have it in cold storage across at least 6 different locations. Ok fine. So GO GET IT and do a wallet to wallet transfer so you can prove it to everyone via the block chain as they have willing done before when there were questions about their solvency, then put it back into cold storage. Is it that hard to go to these 6 places in question? Or are they still living in the 12th century over there and visiting the next village means loading up a caravan of horses for the 6 month trek across the mountains? No. Someone or a couple of people need to jump in their cars, drive across town, pull the BTC out of the vaults and show everyone they have it. They refuse to do it, instead spewing "Trust us!" Hahahahaha. Yeah, right. I haven't trusted you for the past 3 years, why in the hell would I start now!

It never ceases to amaze me just how many people are honestly willing to throw their heads in the sand and pretend like everything is under control. A playing card exchange that has been having legal and financial problems for a year now. USD withdrawals haven't been working right for 8+ months and had a manipulated exchange rate abnormally & unjustifiably higher then all the other exchanges. If that alone isn't enough to convince anyone to stay away, then you are fools.

Yet despite their long sorted history and on going troubles, people still keep trying to defend them, even as new problems keep appearing. And that is the fundamental problem with MtGox. Even if, by some chance, this is true, and this particular issue really is just a technical glitch, it's still just one of MANY problems to throw on the already heaping pile of problems they have/had. If your local fiat bank was having all these issues, you know damn well you wouldn't trust them or be making excuses for them. So why do it for MtGox?

Oh, I'm 100% sure their BTC withdrawals will be open Monday. They have been mining all weekend, so they can cover the smaller customers now. I'm also 100% sure those with large amounts will still be facing "technical glitches" when they to withdrawal, just as they have been for the past while now.

Bold portion is the best case scenario in my view. A run on their bitcoin wallet will happen if they ever open BTC withdrawals ever again. That in turn will raise the price on MTGOX and then those people will likely send it to another exchange and sell thus driving the price down.

Overall price is going down over the next 1-2 months. We may rally a bit due to influx of people wanting to withdrawal and some suckers on other exchanges may still follow MTGOX but in the end price is headed lower.

I'm a long term bull, but short-term bear currently.

Again I fully agree with smoothie, but I'm a bit worried these super whales on Btc-e will use any movement to manipulate the price in their favor in the meantime, meaning the downtrend might be broken by a few perhaps significant pumps, thus further delaying the overall downtrend a bit further. Btc will be fine in the long run, but short to mid-term down, or - if gox indeed fails - short term down significantly.

All the answers to your questions are in the reddit post.

The bug is in withdrawals not deposits.

USD issues have been stopped while they are under investigation.

For security reasons they can't just go and get the secured bit coins. The more people you tell the more risk they are at getting stolen. They probably tried quite hard to limit the number of people who know where they are. And just involving secure transport means even more people knowing. It probably would be a 2 week operation and quite expensive.

As for their CEO I don't know if anyone he met was the CEO, but he got the answers anyway.

We know the whole system was bits and pieces hacked together held together by a thin thread, just accept MtGox for what it is, I don't see any reason why it would shut down any time soon. If you've seen the software investment banks use then it would be less of a shock to you.

These sudden scare drops don't happen often anymore, take advantage and load up on discount coins. I'll be back over $1000 before you learn to say konichiwa

Uh, no.

USD withdrawals were stopped in June of 2013 because they were not registered in the USA as a money transferer. They filed the paper work, became registered and reopened USD withdrawals back in July of 2013. Except, it has never actually "worked", with some withdrawals taking upwards of 2+ months, many never getting them at all.

Interestingly enough, if you read MtGox's news on the matter, they used the excuse of increased volume/demand for why they shut down USD withdrawals in June while they made improvements to the system. I can't find anywhere on their website where they even mention their problems with the FED's and banking regulations in this country.

As far as investigations. Silkroad investigations were mostly last year and why the $5.5 million was seized from them in May of 2013. While I'm sure there still investigations going on, especially after the Charlie Sherm incident, that would not cause the shutdown of just USD withdrawls. Makes no sense anyways since much of Silkroad's business was tied to users (both buyers and sellers alike) in other countries besides the US. What it would (and DID) do is cause the funds in specific individual accounts suspected of being involved (everyone who used BitInstant) being locked (which seemed to effect AUD holders more then anything).

To get back to a previous point. They used the excuse of increased volume/demand. Where have I heard that before? They already have an established history of lying about reasons for what goes on there using the same old worn out excuses. I should believe them now why?

Yup, as some people stated before, a big business like that shouldn't avoid questions. If you were earning as much as they do from fees, you could easily hire 1 or 2 people to just sit there and answer emails, manage facebook and twitter accounts or just being a responsible CO, sit your ass in front of the screen for 30 min a day and write a summary of problems and actions taken, for all to see. Next thing is the weekend problem - wtf? You run a company, it gets in trouble, people are losing patience and you take a 2 day break from work because it's weekend? Maybe I'm strange but I'd lose sleep, call freinds to help me and sit there whole day trying to resolve this. That's why even if they manage to survive this, their attitude should be a clear sign to stay away. If something like this happens again, they will just ignore your claims and eventually pack their bags and run.

I have a feeling even if they worked throughout the weekend they would achieve nothing. Things are worse then they appear. They spent the bitcoinica funds and more, also having the FBI lock down some funds, therefore having to halt withdrawals. They will have to open withdrawals manually, allowing only what comes in to go out because they have nothing left (just like they did with fiat).

And how exactly did the FBI lock down gox bitcoins? That's a trick I'd like to learn ;-)

I wonder if he ever did the hashing of passwords the way he was asked to in this 2010 thread. Otherwise, uhm ooopsie.

What? I woke up (in the UK) expecting to at least see something had happened. As I write, it's 3.45pm in Tokyo. Nothing new on the mtgox new-sfeed. I thought no news would be the worst news of all...but the price has barely changed. Does everyone really believe that an announcement is still coming in the last couple of hours of their working day? If you were in charge there, at 9am, wouldn't you at least have written something along the lines of 'announcement at 5pm'?

Well, there is some news from a newspaper:

Bitcoin price drops as Mt. Gox exchange closes indefinitely

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/bitcoin-price-drops-as-mt-gox-exchange-closes-indefinitely-20140210-32ap1.html#ixzz2stqGD9t0

" It promised an "update" - not a reopening - on Monday, February 10, Japan time", they write.

That would explain how an auditor's account got hacked in 2011 and a crap load of BTC were stolen.  ::)

All old news. Are all your aussie newspapers 3+ days behind?  LOL. :P

Things looks good now seems so

Really? Almost 5pm in Japan and still no update. Looking real good!  ::)

Not surprising. Their update likely wont have much to appease their customers wanting their Bitcoins out.

Dude, can you read the date on the article? It's Feb 10th. So today.  ::)

Still no news from mtgox?

BAD NEWS.

https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20140210.html

It could be bull shit, just to buy some time.

So, Basically there is a problem with double spending but the problem is with the bitcoin source and not their shitty code.

lol


so no btc withdrawal no fiat withdrawal so When those bastards are declaring their bankrupcy?

FUD from gox themselves? Either way, this is not good....

I doubt that. They had withdrawal problems for months, other exchanges are functioning. It's just to buy time and blame the bitcoin itself. One question Gox - why is it only you?

they know they are dead, so might as well take everybody else with em... they can only lose so much, the rest are bonus.

Their only hope is to trigger a bitcoin crash, so they can buy cheap bitcoins that they owe the clients.

Yup. BTC-e and bitstamp withdrawals work.

If it was an exploit in the bitcoin software itself (the official release) then other exchanges would have experience the same type of withdrawal issues.

Gox is full of shit on that note.

There is an issue with the protocol, but not with the regular client. Issue lies with Gox not having checked their own custom client correctly.

this is not what they say in their last statement ALSO they are lying as everyone know they have issues for withdrwaing fiat ,we are waiting our usd since 4 months now

They used a custom made client that made such double spends possible. It's more their own fault than anyone else's. In any way, Bitcoin will be fixed quickly to make such attempts impossible. Crazy selling is going on anyways. Enjoy.

Prices are falling not good  :o

And all of that news mentioned in that article is the same news from 3+ days ago that the rest of us already knew about. There is nothing "new" there. So yeah, behind.  ::)

Down to 540$/BTC and up to 630$/BTC within 15 minutes... Glad I bought a little at 550$... Too bad SEPA deposits aren't instant.

Can anyone confirm gox has been in contact with some of the bitcoin core developers over the weekend?

It's still bad news and will make the media. Gox users likely will suffer potentially high losses, Gox may go broke and loses all rest of reputation, and Bitcoin will take months to recover, like more than 6 months. Maybe one year.

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2014/02/10/mt-gox-blames-bitcoin-core-developer-greg-maxwell-responds/

Confirmed. It IS MtGox's shitty code at fault!

Since MtGox has now firmly boxed themselves into a corner, I wonder what they will say and/or do?

Haha I knew it, gox team can't even take the blame, sad bunch.

I want Gox to die so bad. I wish Mark got killed by an act of god.

their code affectet all btc market :(

Sincerely I never usd mtgox, and never will use it.

I think all web sites have to remove mtgox btc quote as primary market price, due to the fact btc quote on mtgox will go very low...  cause people will exchange all btc wallet frozen there, converting it in usd

This is true, they should stand up and go out with a press release. AND then they should fix it.. :)

And this is just really immature. 14 maybe 15 years old are we.. ?

One should see the intention of such press blaming the protocol while completely left out the issue has been identified by core developers many moons ago......



THEY WANT TO FCKING BUY BTC from noobs at MUCH LOWER price. FCK YOU MARK, you're the WORST SCUM on this planet and i wish you a horrible death.

Mt.Gox is playing us. Making profit from panic they make.


When people on mt.gox withdraw money they have to wait 2 weeks or so.

So mt.gox is making money on those falls they send people withdraws like 50000$ or more the price go down and same making panic on market.

People start to sell BTC for 2 reasons one is panic second is they selling high and then buying cheep.

And then gox comes with the pull of money when the price is low they start buying the BTC + people buy the btc with them because the price is going up.

After Price is stable they Sell the BTC and send people money withdraws the price go down and the panic make it go more down + people are selling with profit and when it is at the bottom they buy BTC pure profit.

now they will say we have enough bitcoins for withdrawal after they bought at US500/btc (it went to US102/btc at one point)

what a nice trick.. now the problem is fixed and everyone is happy.

MtGox should just bow out as gracefully as they can at this point and go away, rather than try to take Bitcoin down with them like the market manipulating shady f--ks that they are.

wonder if there was really a matched order
https://i.imgur.com/e7sR4phl.png

If that's the case, then I applaud them. Imagine if people reacted in other way and raise price instead of panic selling?

In the real world, if you have two supermarkets nearby, and in one of them roof collapses, berrying people underneath it. What would happen to the other supermarket prices? They would become higher.

People on the other exchanges should react in same manner. If there's a problem at gox, that means noone can exchange btc over there, that means we should raise price because people will be forced to buy from us on other exchanges.

that's why mtgox pointed the finger at the bitcoin protocol, instead of admitting it's their fault.... your scenario would work if mtgox say that they r collapsing etc.. but they were saying the bitcoin protocol itself has problem. In that case, btc could become worthless, so triggered fire-sell.

Who knows how long it will take MtGox to fix this issue approximately?

Well, if MtGox doesn't admit it's their fault and not Bitcoin's, never.

They already made their bed by blaming Bitcoin and took the stand that they will not reopen withdrawals till the Bitcoin devs fix the problem. A problem that is not actually a problem, that the bitcoin devs notified everyone about over 3 years ago, and doesn't affect wallets running proper code. It's not Bitcoin's problem that MtGox made up their own hodgepodge of crap code that doesn't work right.

It's basically just an excuse setting up Bitcoin as the reason why MtGox fails so they can play innocent in the face of all MtGox customer loosing everything.

So, yeah, never.

such fail. Gox sucks.

And dont forget that these are the guys, you sent your IDs to...
I never was on Mt.Gox because of it.

Same here, until there are exchanges that don't require all this paperwork I'll stick to them.

i'd like to know how much has been stolen.

horror

Well, BitcoinAverage just removed MtGox from their site, which is a nice beginning. We have to get rid of MtGox so it stops pulling the price down.

Yes, I think so too..  on bitstamp price is goin up now...  usd 673 at this moment...

now will incur a total chaos, and stamp and btc-e go to bottom.

Could you please explain why you think this?

Edit: Forget it. Just noticed igorr is currently spreading panic over the whole forum. Ignore him.

producers of mining hardware no more any interes to invest money in bitcoin, and game is over.

just read my thread from 5 jan 2014 year, and check my analise and my calculation, you will understand,

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=400001.msg4328147#msg4328147

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=420005.0

mission complete,

All Bitcoin sold, mining hardware is sold , transfer usd to private bank account in progress.

always felt this will happen

all my mining hardware is at its place to regularly mine and will stay there to mine; today I addedd too a new r9 290x tri-x to my rig and a new sha-256 device has been ordered..  My bitcoins are safe on their wallet and I'll not exchange them...

I speak for SHA-256

Other news...

Bitcoin Foundation calls them a bunch of liars
https://bitcoinfoundation.org/blog/?p=418

CoinDesk tells them to f--k off
http://www.coindesk.com/coindesk-removes-mt-gox-bitcoin-price-index-2/


MtGox really screwed the pooch trying to pass the buck. If it wasn't already before, it's now firmly established that the inherent minor glitch of Bitcoin was well known for years and NOT a problem for wallets that meet Bitcoin transaction standards, and everyone knows it!

Guess MtGox thought everyone was stupid, hence why they went out on a limb with their final excuse.

Your move, MtGox! -- Are you guys going to do the right thing now, admit this problem (like all your other problems) were your own fault and try to fix it while you still have a handful of customers willing to support and defend you and 'maybe' recover from this mess. Or will you continue the charade of playing the innocent victim and screw over everyone who has coins & fiat in your exchange when you shut down in a few days?

BTC-e got in touch with CoinDesk and had this to say:

“There is not a problem with the Bitcoin’s protocol. Unconfirmed transactions were always malleable in the Bitcoin network. We wonder why Mt. Gox wasn’t already aware about this having worked for several years with the protocol. We kindly advise Mt. Gox to hire more professional technical staff.”
source http://www.coindesk.com/price-drops-mt-gox-blames-bitcoin-flaw-withdrawal-delays/

In the meantime, mtgox has been removed from other web sites, and http://bitcoin.clarkmoody.com/ is not working anymore

Wish Coinwarz would hurry up and drop them too!

I wonder what Mark is doing, now that he knows his attempt to pass the buck failed and bit them on the ass even harder.

Aw, who am I kidding. Mark doesn't care. He's probably in a luxury hotel in Cuba sitting on a comfy chair stuffed with everyone's BTC and Fiat drinking pina coladas right now.

i think karpeles & co are arbing currently between mtgox & other exchanges
easy ~130 $ profit per coin

If the Bitcoin Foundation itself called bullshit on MtGox, will they remove it as (Gold) member? Or isn't this possible? (maybe the foundation pledged to keep them as gold member and MtGox donated in return? I don't know)

Well, Mark crawled out from under this rock, and is still spinning this as Gox not only being a victim, but the saviour of Bitcoin by bringing it up and forcing the Bitcoin devs to fix it.  ::)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/leoking/2014/02/13/mt-gox-ceo-mark-karpeles-responds-to-widespread-bitcoin-criticism/

It's been said Gox may open BTC withdrawals again come Monday.

If so, that would leave only a million other problems for them to work on; like solvency and USD withdrawals.

I, as someone not in the inside, feel like I only have 10% of the informations and motives in this Mtgox story, we will learn more in the coming months

Yeah, but we won't hear it from Gox. Remember, this latest issue is only one on a long list of issues Magic: The Gathering playing card exchange has had over the years, and not a single one of them has Gox ever been very forthcoming about.

Given their history, the safe bet is; If Gox says it, it's 99.99% a lie, or at the very least, a slinky made from part of the truth.


BTW: Update on Gox, they released a statement today (Monday) regarding BTC withdrawals. Their statement said they fixed the problem but BTC withdrawals are still disabled and they will make a another statement later in the week, hopefully no later than Thursday, with another update. Also that 'when' withdrawals are enabled again, they will be limited and capped according to market conditions.

In other words, they are stalling for time, and if/when withdrawals are enabled, you still won't be able to get everything you have out.  ::)

This ^

Otherwise they would not have imposed a limit (daily and monthly) for BTC withdrawals.

That should be a sign clear as day that they do not have all customer funds.

So they released another statement today (Thursday) as promised. Withdrawals are still turned off.

https://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/20140220-Announcement.pdf

They are siting security issue that forced them to relocate to a new building yesterday for the delay. ::)

They will make another update an some undetermined point in the future. Nope, they didn't even bother to give an estimated time frame for another update this time.

Funny how they claim the issue has been fixed since the weekend. Funny how "moving" didn't effect Deposits or Trades.


To Gox: You're insolvent, we all know this! Stop stalling for time and making excuses. Just roll over and die already instead of trying to drive down Bitcoin too just because you morons were selfish, greedy and f--ked up!

See MtGox,
how it is possible, big international robbery without any help and without any legal responsibility.
Who was behind this ???

I wonder if problems may arise in the future on account of MtGox owning the Bitcoin name.

Bitstamp is the next ?

http://i57.tinypic.com/2nn804.jpg

I have always been of the opinion that BTC-e is the most transparent of the big three. They may be shady and difficult to reach, but I have never experienced any "maintenance problems" with their cryptocurrency withdrawals. Bank withdrawals is another matter, but that is not really their fault.

MtGox 111 usd, and what will happen when of these 500,000 Bitcoin comes to Bitstamp I can only imagine.   :o


http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/627/8kda.jpg (http://img607.imageshack.us/i/8kda.jpg/)View Screen Capture (http://img607.imageshack.us/i/8kda.jpg/)

we really need a solid exchange now that gox and bitstamp are both failing with regard to hassle-free withdrawals.

When M.K finally manages to get btc to $10usd he'll come up and say that the company can't do biz anymore and that all customers are urged to redeem their btc for fiat-usd. If anyone for one second thinks that the price at Gox is anything but the price that M.K. wants i have ten brooklyn bridges and 5 trusted ponzi schemes on sale for them. one thing i have to concede to K. is that The wolf of Gox Street is relentless.

There are a few theories circulating about the mtgox fiasco, it is certain that there is way more behind the scene that what we know; conspiracy theories always work and most of them are not true but this fiasco looks too shady not to have been a bit orchestrated by someone

It doesn't mean it has been orchestrated by mister K or gox, and maybe it wasn't orchestrated but people are taking advantage of the situation

Is it possible to estimate how profitable is the crisis for MtGox?

On a graph with a scale of 1 day per candlestick, I count a volume of about 650,000 BTC from the first big drop to now. Let us consider an average fee of 0.30% and keep in mind that it is paid by both buyers and sellers.
2x0.0030 x 650,000 = 3,900 BTC.

The average price being $500 over this period, their profit would reach 3900x500 = $2,000,000 !?

some light on the orizon for gox
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1ymb4r/some_light_on_the_horizon_for_gox/

He spent the 38 million on Kopi Luwak, the most expensive coffee in the world!

Seems like my analysis was very accurate.
I believe the current price of 300$ at MtGox is a "dead cat bounce" and the price of 500-600 at other exchanges is a bubble.
All bitcoin exchanges will trade at 100$ for several months, during spring/summer 2014.

/Gollum told you so! :D

However this current (mostly manufactured) 'crisis' plays out, it's clear that mtgox's potential to profit from it has been huge. It's highly unlikely that they have not leveraged the situation to their financial advantage somehow.

What's almost certain however is that any funds they have left, even after this latest in a string of ongoing fiascos, will never cover the existing and upcoming lawsuits to be filed against them.

MtGox is dead, whether they know it or not. They can never rebuild the confidence they've lost at this point.

apparently mtgox confirmed they received the fix from the blockchain.info for the " broken bitcoin protocol" as they claimed, so there must be another reason for this hold up.

Not any more! Now, the most expensive coffee in the world is Karpeles Goxeles, brewed from the excretions of the elusive Mark Karpeles after consuming Kopie Luwak a few hours earlier. The first known cup brewed was smeared on the bodies of Long Dong Johnson and Skropenis, each on the other, recorded live, but never broadcasted, on Only One TV.

You mean received a work around from a 3rd party that allows them to continue misusing the bitcoin protocol because doing things the correct way is too hard for them.

Yeah. They are an insolvent ponzi scam, and trying to hide it.

Hahaha shit-coffee made from shit-coffee shit

same thing happened at Full Tilt Poker.  They paid themselves with user deposits.  Definitely not hacked

Beat you to it!

Yeah, how were they paying their own salaries... with which money? Our money.

How about SecondMarket?

Does bistamp dissalow withdrawals?

I can withdraw from Bitstamp, like I always could.
Do not spread more unneeded fear.

More like $350M dissappeared.

I don't know what is wrong with these exchanges.Are they trying to dump BTC?

There is nothing wrong with the others.
As to Gox, they are not an exchange anymore.

Nothing wrong with other exchanges? BTC down to 500$

How is that relevant? Are they exchanges working? Yes, they are.

http://www.examiner.com/article/mt-gox-goes-dark-bitcoin-wallet-service-allegedly-lost-750-000-btc

And despite everything so far, they still have the gall to say;

http://www.scribd.com/doc/209050732/MtGox-Situation-Crisis-Strategy-Draft
"At this point 744,408 BTC are missing due to malleability-related theft which went unnoticed for several years."

1) How incompetent are they to not notice this so called theft over several years?

2) It's BS anyways. Malleability is impossible unless live physical people who fail to properly verify transactions the correct way (IE: not by TXID) ignorantly choose to send duplicate payments to people. It wasn't stolen by malleability, they gave it away because they refused to follow protocol.


Anyway, the money and coins are gone!

So, who's stupid enough to continue to believe and defend them?

Please, just sit quietly and learn.

Someone was able to recover what was lost? BTC

Yes, ppl recovered their funds and put them on FTX (true story).