Bitcoin Forum

Hi all,

I have been looking around for a month or more and have even tried to setup GUIMiner on my own but I so far have not done it correctly. I want to try out a very easy to setup and use miner to run solo.

My computer is not great I just want to try it out.

If your computer's not great, why not try pool mining? It could be months, years or never that you find a block. With pool mining, at least you get SOME Bitcoins for your efforts.

bitminter is a java client that will run without any configuration. you will just need to register at the bitminter.com pool and then log in from your client.

the client will show you what you are likely to earn in a day with your current hardware set up.


its not bad to start with.

Thanks but I want to Solo mine, I have newer hardware that I will eventually put it on when I find a miner I like. If it helps here is a list of the hardware I have available. And for the record I am somewhat of a gambler I would rather take the higher risk option of solo mining for the large payout.

1st Test computer
Athlon 64
Nvidia 8800 GT (AGP)
Any OS option

2nd  Test Computer
Turion X2 64x
Radion HD 3200
Any OS run in Virtual Box only

Actual machine after choice is made
Phenom Black 9950 x4
Gigayte HD 6450

Actual Machine 2
Phenom 9950 x4
R HD 4200 + 4700 Hybrid Crossfire

Actual Machine 3
Phenom II x6
R HD 5870

I also have tons of old hardware Mainly P4 Dells that I have configured into a cluster at one point but the electricity use for what I was doing at that time was very much not work the effort. But I might do it again for the fun and challenge if I like mining.

I have GUI Miner on Actual Machine #1 I just couldn't figure it out and when looking for the new version I did not see the link anymore.

dont take this the wrong way, but even with those specs you'd still be at about 90 days average time till finding a block, and the difficulty will change a lot in that time. I'd still recommend a pool.

the R HD 6450 will get you about 130 mhash, we'll call it 150 to be nice. the R HD 4xxx series are only beta-compatible with the SDK, and don't post nearly as good speeds (20-40% reduced over the same model from the 5xxx series -- trust me I learned the hard way). 200 mhash combined for this machine. r hd 5870 is the best model you have here and can be pushed to about 400 mhash = a combined strength of 750 mhash/sec. a quick visit to the calculator over at bitcoinpool.com means you're in for a rough road. I'd HIGHLY recommend a pool. you can dare to be great at a 50% chance of absolutely nothing happening, ever, or you can settle for .5 btc a day (at that rate are present difficulty) in a pool, and at least have something to show for it after a month of work.

I'd recommend not considering solo mining till your rigs combine to the 4 ghash/sec neighborhood.

Are people really reaching this 4 ghash/s and making money after power cost?

I just want to do it solo in the hope of getting lucky. I don't think getting .5 a day will be worth it to me but getting lucky or discouraged seems like my best option. It comes down to me wanting new hardware and I'm willing to take a shot while I have reduced power costs at getting lucky, maybe if I had to pay the full bill I would pool mine or just not do it at all.

I now have GUIminer running in VirtualBox so how do I know it is working and I did it all correclty?

Try connecting to a pool (I recommend slush's pool at http://mining.bitcoin.cz/ because of the low payout requirement) and see if that works? If it does, then you can try doing solo mining. I've never done solo mining, but I'm sure others here have.

have a rethink about your hardware.

do you really need to run all these single card rigs? can the best of the cards fit into one rig? can you sell any of this and by more 5870's/5970's /69xx's?

 ;)

Just made me laugh when I read that, even though it's a reasonable idea, I have a bunch of this stuff and more on craigslist right now. Most of the the time I get a few calls a day when I put stuff on craigslist this is somewhat scary to me about the state of the economy that I have not gotten any calls in 2 weeks and I have a truck, trailer, computer parts, and video games on there.....

The problem I have with pooled mining atm is that my calculations show that I will spend more in power than I will get back even with my reduced rate. That is why I have decided I want to take the "gamble" of solo mining. It's just more fun to get a lump payout.

If you want to roll the dice a bit, to have a chance of winning more than in a big pool, why not use a small pool? In a small pool you can still get lucky or unlucky if it takes weeks to find a block, but at least you will find something, which is anything but sure if you are mining solo.

Im mining for bitminter:
https://bitminter.com/

With 25-30GH is a pretty small pool. On a lucky day they get 1 block a day, on a bad week.. it takes weeks.

ANyway, I hope you are not paying for electricity, or none of these machines would make sense, except for number 3.

yep, fair enough, but with a pool you can cover some of your costs, solo you can get lucky, or you can cover none of your costs for a very very long time ;)
good luck with it :D

I got GUIMiner up and working some time yesterday and I have it doing its thing as slow as .... well just slow. Now I am ready to setup the next slow computer and I will try a mined pool this time.

Recommendations?

you could try mining at https://ozco.in/ and get good results, i don't recommend deepbit because it's too big already and your income would suffer if you have to split it with so many miners  ;)

The 5870 is the only card worth mining on, the others will use more power than the BTC they generate.

400Mhash/s from that card:

~0.23 BTC per day pool mining at current difficulty; $1.23 at current exchange rate.
or
a 50% chance of getting 50BTC after 7.25 months of mining

The main advantage of mining solo is that you do not to pay the pool fee. To mine solo I would say that you need to generate maybe 1 block per week/few days, but that really depends on how much are you willing to risk.

This (http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/594/solo-mining-vs-pool-mining-for-users-with-high-computing-power) might interest you

That was interesting. The biggest problem I am having is figuring out what my older hardware might do for me. Investing money up front for more newer stuff is not an option at this point.

I hate to say it, but 750 mhash combined is a bit of a stretch, I'd put it closer to 550 mhash

Not a waste of time, just hope you enjoy variance...

Well I have my best computer going solo for now.

I want to now make a Ubuntu computer that is much older work for pooled mining and I will be able to add computers till I can see what kind of numbers I get.

So I have now;

Athlon 64x 3200+
Nvidia 8600 (AGP)
Ubuntu 11.xx

What's the recomendation for a miner to run?

I already asked which pool to join anyone object to what has been recommended or it just doesn't matter much.

Also is the HD 6450 no good for mining?

Solo mining is more profitable than pooled mining, and hashrate has absolutely nothing to do with it.  Solo mining only means higher variance, and low hashrate means variance may be a bit high for some.  My 13 Mhash/s 5450 fanless PCI card has paid for itself and the computer many times by mining solo since december last year.  Often takes a while between blocks now, but I can wait.  (Last block in May.)

> Solo mining is more profitable than pooled mining, and hashrate has absolutely nothing to do with it.

You might think so but consider this. If it takes you a year month , on average to generate a block, and 5 years months exceptionally,  you will be generating this block when the difficulty has gone up significantly to what it was when you started. This does NOT average out. Now if you were in a pool, (and the pool was honest and fair etc) you get returens within the period of difficulty change. That is the criteria, and that is in fact where statements like "Dont consider solo mining unless you have a combined power of more than 10GH" come from. I agree with this by the way. Of course its depressing when you find your machine found the block for a pool, but thats how it goes. There is still considerable luck in pooled mining, like when the pool  finds 2 blocks one after the other...

And have you seen whats happened since december and may? Hint:
http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin.png

With the current difficulty it will take you on average 6459 days before you find your next block. Yes, almost 20 years.

Whats wrong with just joining a pool, there are even pools that you don't have to pay any admin fees to.   If you really feel lucky just go to Vegas and put everything on red.
Better odds then going it yourself with the system that you have.
Jason

This is the most misleading comment in the thread. Have you looked at difficulty changes since May? You will probably never find another Bitcoin block with that card. You will earn money if you turn if off (or join a pool, if you don't pay for electricity).

Bit pool is where it is at. Better to do it in a group vs going dumb luck method in my opinion.

Yes, it does.  Do the math.  Difficulty is irrelevant.  Difficulty only changes the average time between blocks in solo mining or price per share in pooled mining.  The effect is the same.  The chance of finding a block is just a bit higher with lower difficulty.

Statistics is often non-intuitive, but this shouldn't be.  When solo mining your average income for a given hashrate is proportional to the difficulty.  When pool mining your average income for a given hashrate is also proportional to the difficulty.  For the exact same reason.  This is true for any period, and when the change happens or the direction (higher or lower) doesn't matter.  It happens at the same time for everyone.

So what?  It will take even longer to get 50 + fees BTC when mining in a pool.  I may actually get the 50.something in the lifetime of the card.  With pooled mining I am certain not to.  My average income from this card will be higher than in a pool.  In reality it will probably be 0 from now, if the difficulty stays up, but it can also be any multiple of 50 (or 25, 12.5, etc) + fees.  If I used this in a pool, I'd get something like 2.82 BTC a year.  I'll rather invest my 2.82 coins in a 1 to 17 chance to win 50 + some.  A nice, anonymous virgin block just for myself.  :-)

The card uses 19W.  About 0.7 Mhash/s per watt isn't very good, but not terrible either.  166 kWh/year for a 1:17 chance to win 50.fees bitcoins at current difficulty is not bad.  The power isn't free (I don't pay for it, but I care about it), but the alternative to mining is an electrical oven.  I don't care that much about 2.82 BTC a year either, providing no pool downtime or difficulty changes, but I would care about a anonymous virgin block of 50 + fees.

Good luck with that then. Next year we will have the 7000 series and probably FPGAs/ASICs so your 20 years will become 100 years and then 1000 years and you still won't have any coins.

Interesting points, but I think still having a machine running solo specifically for the variance is a good thing because if I hit I suddenly can afford to buy some new hardware that I would not otherwise have. And if you read before I am a gambler ;-) I used to play online poker for a living now I am doing actual working and looking for a new way “out”.

As an update what I thought was  a 5870 turned out to be a dead card so now I have my 6450 mining on this computer @ 28.5 Mhash/s on a pool. It is the best working machine I have atm so I am thinking of putting this solo and switching all the others to a pool. Right now I am paying $0.08 per KWh and according to my power management software I am using 5.40 KWh per day….. I also have a Quadro 3xxx that is PCIe that may be dead. Worth using if it is not?

In my honest opinion it is cheaper to buy bc than to farm them on a single machine.  My gaming rig eats more power than I can farm and the house gets hot.

Its not profitable if you count all 225W of the machine (ie, if you otherwise turn the machine off).
Power cost per 24h: 0.43 USD
Revenue per day: 0.09 USD
      ... less power costs: -0.35 USD

See for yourself here:
http://bitcoinx.com/profit/index.php

Dont bother with the quadro either.
There are only a few cards out there where its even possible to be profitable, that is basically 5770s, 58x0, 59x0, 68x0 and 69x0 cards. Even with those cards its tough to make a profit, with anything else, forget it.

6 Rigs + a leaf blower to keep them cool... now that's what I call mining

If i read this well its simply in no way profitable to run a miner either if it runs on a pool nor as solo miner
As for the site given it seem to me giving incorrect values for germany and netherlands those prices are pure based on the energy itself but we pay transport costs and new energy tax and also a monthly tax which is not calculated by that site in total my energy per Kwh is 0.44 euro cents.
So if i am reading it right in no way this bitcoin mining can be profitable for me, even if i bought a enormous system with 3 x 6990 cards into it ( which i never can afford).
It simply would never cover the costs of the system and the needed electra which such system eats is like 1200 Kwh or something similar

If one card isnt profitable, 10x cards wont be either.

And indeed, with such energy prices, its likely never  profitable for you with GPUs. There might be brief windows of opportunity where it is profitable, when bitcoin price spikes and global hashrate and difficulty havent caught up yet, but in the grand scheme of things, nop. Unless you want mine with FPGA's. These have vastly lower energy cost per MH but are rather expensive to buy making it a somewhat risky or longer term investment.

About how often do you get bitcoins with pool mining and how do you do it? I still am waiting for all my blocks to download so I'm not sure how the whole thing works :/

BTW, I just checked your energy prices. Natural gas is cheap. 3-4x cheaper per KwH. Invest in a generator and produce your own energy :).

Depends how big the pool is. In a large pool, you can get payouts like every hour or so (although the first payout may take a day, because of the needed confirmations). In a smaller pool it can take days or weeks depending on luck, but obviously the payouts are bigger.

As for how to do it, just put in your wallet address in the pool's config page. If you are having trouble, Id suggest bitminter, its a pool with their own mining app, extremely easy to use (and fast too):
https://bitminter.com/
But its a small pool, so it can take a while.

Indeed if i could place such a generator without freaking the hell out of my neighbours :D
Another option was to place a wind turbine or solar panels it maybe would in time return the investments, but the rules and regulations of the local governement does not permit to do so
Placing windmills is not allowed nor placing solar panels in plain sight ... yes they own a huge portion on stock of the biggest energy company which totally controls all of my region, or even 1/3 of the netherlands for that matter. Its again got a new name because the old was too tainted, lol especially for me they had a very bad taste in the mouth. sadly this old government companies still have a firm hold on every aspect of the energy in our country and hold the market hostage.
So either way for me at the moment it seems impossible to gain something out of bitcoins or can contribute in other ways.
I plainly lack enough money todo it right nor can i put money i don't have into something which clearly at the moment only would cost money.
Do not get me wrong here i think bitcoins could be a very nice way to shop worldwide and yes it does have the same problem as all other means with value, their allways be people who will try to rip you off  or scam and steal it fom you. But hell lets be honest every thing we do we are at risk of that houses, cars and buildings get broken into, creditcards and bank accounts try to avoid others scam or steal also and many times fail to stop them. Walking over the street with a wallet with 20 euro in it will get you killed in some spots in our country.
So nothing new is being said here, i just hope bitcoin gets over this trust issue again and hopefully gets a more accepted means of paying for whatever

its not because you cant mine that you cant contribute. Dont worry about the mining; others will: its simple free market economics. In fact, its because enough ppl already mine that you cant extract a profit.

If you want to further the bitcoin cause; simply spread the word. Every online purchase or donation you do, send an email asking if they accept bitcoins. And use bitcoins for purchases whenever you can. That does infinitely more to help bitcoin than setting up a mining farm.

Not true.  I may not have any coins, or I may have 101 coins, or 1000.  The power of variance.  By average solo mining will pay better, independent of hashrate and difficulty.  Blocks are found randomly.  No single result is certain or impossible.  Correctly applied statistics can help you predict averages and other properties over time for large samples.

Btw, the difficulty has been declining for months now.  By some people's (flawed) logic, solo mining pays less due to difficulty increase.  Should be very profitable when difficulty goes down then, or what? :-)

On average being the key. With this sort of hardware, on average the OP will be dead and buried before he finds his second block. I guess his beneficiaries  will be better off.. "on average".

I think deepbit is best for newbies, payouts are pretty often.