Bitcoin Forum

This is a continuation of this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=45881.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=45881.0)

This is for donors who are interested in contributing. If interested, please do the following:

1) Send donation to: 18E7852e1q3UFHjyNwddzydJ4uv7ZY2t7b

2) Post in this thread with your donation amount and a return payment address (if you wish to be anonymous, just donate, but you won't get anything back if the project is cancelled)


Please also post here if you have any questions. The wallet is under the care of trentzb (forum staff member). It's a VPS bitcoind instance specifically set up for this project.  If the project is cancelled, or refunds are appropriate for any reason, they'll be returned to the address you post in step 2 above.

IRC chat is #operationbitcoin
Landing page will be operationbitcoin.com or .org

http://ansrv.com/png?s=http://blockexplorer.com/q/getreceivedbyaddress/18E7852e1q3UFHjyNwddzydJ4uv7ZY2t7b/3&c=ffhttp://ansrv.com/png?s= btc collected

2 btc sent, return address: 13DKjfyisDj2qMQgiw3jtiGmQaVSrz8eJD

I just sent 10 and some change as I mentioned I would on the other thread.

I hope that by using some random change, I will be able to track somewhat where my money went if you guys publish some of this info in the system you are cooking up (without giving away more of my anonymity than I desire.)

If the project does not fly for whatever reason, I would request that my contribution go to pay off anyone commissioned to do work on behalf of the project (like a printer), followed by reimbursing anyone who outlaid real money (for hosting or whatever) followed by anyone who did a degree of coding or significant grunt work.

---

I'll putter around with IRC.  The last time I tried it was '97-ish.  I found it mostly full of channels with a single participant waiting for some kid to stop by for sex chat or something.  I moved on to usenet and never looked back.

Fixed!

Here's the current landing page design...

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/7586/design1t.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/51/design1t.gif/)

comments welcome on the design - gotta go to bed for now :)

This.Is.Awesome.

Some of the biggest appeals of Bitcoin to me are:

 - not 'debt-based' (same family as physical PM's in this regard.)

 - no barriers to transfer/movement (PM's suffer in this regard for operational reasons.)

It may (or may not) be worth seeing if they could be shoe-horned in.

---

I like the 'experiment' term.  Truth in advertising.

---

I personally am not sure at this point that I would lobby to 'end the fed, end the banks' at least without some pretty careful consideration.  Certainly I would like to see some significant re-structure in the power and influence that they have in pretty much all of our societies, but it's not (necessarily) the same thing.  I may choose to not make it a centerpiece of the front page and consider it to be potentially a little bit over the top,  but have no serious dispute about doing so.

I tend to agree. End the Fed/Banks has a negative/anarchist taste to it. While I suspect that many here feel that way it wouldn't hurt to keep a more positive connotation. Something like 'you know you don't have to use fiat, use Bitcoin instead'...

@tvbcof
I am throwing together an accounting page to track deposits and disbursements (if I am to manage disbursements). For now you can view incoming funds on BBE at http://blockexplorer.com/address/18E7852e1q3UFHjyNwddzydJ4uv7ZY2t7b

OccupyWallStreet == biggest waste of time ever.  ::)

+1

You're doing it wrong, BTC is not ready for prime time.

From your signature links, appears that you are an advocate of advocating gambling as the more productive use of other's time. Good luck with that when you face the transition to the new paradigm......

My 5 btc contribution to the Wall Street Occupation has been sent, and I request it be returned to 1Q2driP1FjjnSymfXPWkKtx3wpjSScxFzm  if the project does not proceed.

Card Design so far
https://i.imgur.com/H5SUe.png

Yifu said to send him the grungy background effect so it also may be applied to here for consistency

also rename the thread to [WIP], it's not exactly for donations, though pledging is possible for this.

p.s.
might not be necessary due DPI limitations that when printed: won't be visible anyways.

This is not as big of a deal to me as I make it out to be.  If you guys think you can get something going in time for the occupy wallstreet thing, then by all means focus on that.  But I'll appreciate whatever efforts you (and whoever else) can make in this area.

I see little reason to hope that scammers and other associated low-life will not continue to be well represented in the Bitcoin community for as far out as the eye can see.  For that reason I do believe that it would be a big positive for a system such as this to have well implemented transparency mechanisms and that is why I've mentioned it several times and do so again here.

I have some hope that the system will become effective and remain healthy and can be used over and over to help draw people into the Bitcoin user community.  (Part of the reason I think this is such a good idea is that it can be tunned and targeted quite effectively.  Almost like Spear Phishing one could say.)

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On a similar vein, memorydealers, if you are reading this, I have no idea what happened to the 3 BTC I donated to one of the earlier 'charity' efforts which was escrowed by Bruce (or at least that was the initial plan.)  I was to humiliated to see if there was any accounting or follow-up.  If that wallet is still kicking around and funded and in your control, I'm happy if you remove the 3 BTC and use it toward this cause.

2 btc sent, return address: 13cc1jN2Quh5SRtckACdbU2WNX9NMjVHA2

For the purpose of this campaign it is not "us, the bitcoiners and them the #OccupyWallStreeters", so I would change the tone more to "We are #OccupyWallStreet with a good mean of protest at hands".

Sent 1BTC. 15HMeAEEGrE3sEfknCvHgwMeJYc8s5nzdN if not used for the purpose.

Donated, don't want my btc back, I want this to see this the light of day is all.   Even if not in time for OccupyWallStreet, these cards should be made and given out, ready for any event Bitcoin might be relevant.

3 BTC sent on behalf of tvbcof

I'll update the Bitcoin for charity thread soon as well.

I donated 2.1 BTC to this project. If it doesn't work out, I'd like my coins returned to 1N2XX1q6br7QoBrnUMEyZ7dwHPEu881N4o

I tend to agree that "end the banks" may not be the best message here.
But you might want to allude to the fact that you dont want banks to profit from the protests, something eg paypal would cause, or even when donating pizza to  the protesters when paying with.. credit card.

As for donating, im donating bitcoins straight to the general assembly:
http://nycga.cc/donate/

So far this doesnt seem to have generated them a lot, blockexplorer suggests 50BTC to date.

Anyway, if this project goes somewhere and in a direction I like, then sign me up for a few coins too. Think its too early now.

Well here is why "Please order vegan or non-meat pizzas" lol

As funny as it is, they shouldn't have secondary agendas they are pushing on the same page they are asking for money, the emoticon put on the page doesn't change the smell of "hippy" that comes from that page just for having the word vegan there at all.



Edit: Putting this link here http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/ktz1b/the_occupywallstreet_bitcoin_promotion_people_on/ so it doesn't get buried on the last page.

so they dont like meatballs on their pizza. Their loss :).

Donating 2BTC

Return address should you fail: 12QY5HYbiT5Nx6fek8ss5pAywPsV3kqdu3

This is a good project!

I donated 1 btc

In case of fail, return to: 1145BDEAieei9CcoZMBJPCyNLq2C5p3jt4

I'm also not okay with the "end the banks" slogan. End the Fed is fine, but banks do have some legitimate functions after all. The problems is the rotten banking system we live in.

I agree with that as well. I'm very critical of the entire market system but the point of Bitcoin is not to solve all the issues, the point is to solve issues specifically related to the current type of monetary system. This is why the slogan should be about central banking, fractional reserve system, centralization in general, the fact that all money is created from debt and mostly from thin air these days. Something related to that, not all banking activity imaginable.

I think even that is pushing it too far. I dont see bitcoin as the alternative to fractional reserve banking. I see it as complimentary to it, if that. Lets not kid ourselves or anyone, its an alternative, not a replacement. And its more an alternative to paypal than to the dollar.

Ok, so let's say that's not the right message. Any other suggestions? evoorhees was originally going for the appealing to their "antagonist sympathies" route.

something like, "Its your money".. or "Its our money"
Seems to go nice with the "wall street our street" slogan

I could see that and do not disagree.  In fact, if we go with the 'campaign' idea, it makes a lot of sense to tune the 'campaign front page' to a target audience.  But 'end the banks' still seems a little bit over the top even for a fair percentage of the occupy wallstreet crowd (a total guess on my part.)  At the very least, such a statement needs some rhetorical padding in my opinion.

Here's a quick idea for a slogan before I head off to work.

  "alternative currency systems exist today.  choose freely, choose wisely."

Thanks everyone for the comments thus far. I guess the main theme is some concern regarding the "end the fed" type messaging, which I understand.

Let me try to defend it... effective marketing doesn't try to be all things to all people. In this specific project, we are targetting a very niche group of people and this is a wonderful advantage for a marketing message. This isn't a prime time TV commercial. This isn't a magazine ad. This isn't some banner space on a common website. We're targeting people who have decided to -occupy wall street-.  These people are pissed, and while I think many of them are confused as to the proper reason they should be pissed, there is a strong common antagonism toward the "big banks" and the biggest bank is, of course, the Federal Reserve.

So by using language specifically geared toward that sentiment, I think the Bitcoin promotion is most effectively served. Any strong message will alienate some people, sure, but how many #OccupyWallStreeters are going to be alienated by anti-bank messaging?

And indeed, we're not just using meaningless rhetoric. Bitcoin DOES have the potential to upend current financial systems. It is, quite honestly, the biggest challenge to central banking since Andrew Jackson.

There are a thousand benefits of Bitcoin. A portion of those benefits have to do with tearing down the status quo of corrupt financial institutions and replacing them with a productive, superior alternative system. It's not just "anti Fed," it is "pro Bitcoin, pro alternative" 

I want to connect on an emotional level with the protesters. I think a bit of edgy terminology is appropriate in this context. For a different audience, I would absolutely agree that the messaging should be different. But this is freakin' "OCCUPY WALL STREET" for goodness sake =)

Are any donors still strongly opposed to the wording?

Message sounds spot on to me.

0.5 btc donated. Return address: 1Mxuw6DfTRPMkBn9top6geEhGE8Ych9Cbd.

Also donated 0.5 btc to the NYC General Assembly (http://nycga.cc/donate/) (An online group helping to coordinate activities for the Wall Street movement by providing resources) via 1Q7DQVTubbUqr5by2YoZJRKCEzj9D3LQ9w

This potential donor still is :). It sounds too scary, too radical. I suspect most people protesting there wouldnt even back an abolishment of the federal reserve, let alone the dollar or the entire system of fractional reserve banking. They want jobs, reforms, both economic and political, but not "anarchy". End the banks sounds Utopian, unrealistic and frankly scary. What happens to our money when you end banks?

So I think "Its our money" is a better slogan, although perhaps more to the people who already know bitcoin and understand the double or triple meaning.


My 2 cents.

I would probably spend some time amongst the crowd if I were in the area and had nothing better to do.  If I saw a project which I knew little about and the project stated 'end the banks' as a centerpiece of it's promise, I would be sorta like "pffft..ya, right."  The 'end the fed' part would elicit somewhat less of a derisive response in my mind although the phrase does have some political baggage associated with it.

At the end of the day, I donated funds to a specific group of people who I thought would be likely to make sound decisions.  I do NOT believe that a decision to go with 'end the fed, end the banks' is UNsound for reasons that both you and I identified (associated with targeting.)  So, as far as I am concerned, do as you see best.  You seem to be analyzing everyone's input, and that is all I ask.

1 coin on it's way 14YiELk48dPPEzb79ZHgMsYZRJBFMZMjhW

"replace the fed", "obsolete the fed" ?

I don't think anyone here realizes that this is sponsored by socialists and revolutionary Communists using resentment against Wall Street for a recruiting drive...

Yes.  Very targeted audience.  I think it looks good as it is going.

Gimme a break

That I do like.  How about 'obsolete the fed, [check|limit|restrain|control] the banks'?

What I would dearly love to see sometime within my lifetime is that banks serve a benevolent purpose.  I think it is absurd to ignore their utility, but, as always, that's just my personal opinion.  What I am groping for is a slogan-friendly way to say it.  Right now the commercial banks are, in my opinion, highly malevolent and getting worse and I see Bitcoin as the most promising way so far to alter the situation.  The fed, OTOH, is utterly useless and should never have blighted our country (I am an American of course.)

my new sig

That statement has some element of accuracy.  I'm among the sponsors of this effort, a socialist (as much as anything), and hope that a lot of others share my resentment of 'Wall Street' and become involved in trying to make some changes.

I suspect that my political leanings are in the minority however, and have zero ties to anyone on a political level.  I think that 'revolutionary Communists' are at least highly endangered if not extinct.  I've never seen one in the wild.

I don't think anyone here failed to realize that Andrew_Bitcoiner is starting to freak out a little bit.  If it's any consolation, Andrew, many's a slip twixt the cup and the lip.  You can start to panic in earnest if this things seems to be going anywhere in a few days.

Fixed.

Even if this is true, I don't think it's a problem. I'm from the radical left but I'm a liberal, so that makes me a left-liberal. What I've seen so far is that Bitcoin is something that most left-wing and right-wing liberals can both agree on. They can agree that it is an improvement and could help people. I know there are people in this Bitcoin community from both sides, but what almost everyone have in common is that they have liberal thinking.

Which leads me to believe that this Wall Street protest also has both left-wing and right-wing involved. But most of them will also be liberals so they have something in common. I've gone into useless arguments about the freedoms people have in a market system, so many times, with myself and others like me (libertarian socialists), against what I call the anarcho-capitalists. It's mostly useless because both sides think they're right no matter how many arguments are thrown at them.

It would make me much happier if we can find some common ground and do something good together, and I feel both the protest and Bitcoin is something that we can work on without getting into constant debates. :)

I realize it. The vast majority of the protesters I would probably say are "anti-corporate, anti-profit, anti-market" types and they (incorrectly) ascribe the US banking system as an element of a free market economy, resulting in vast social inequities blah blah blah.  You can see from their signs that many of them are mad, but at the wrong thing, or they simply don't understand who the villain is. They blame "money" as a concept, instead of realizing it's the specific form of money that we have which is problematic.

So be it. They are an audience seeking answers and new ideas, and at least some portion of them realize that it's morally wrong (not to mention economically foolish) to bail out companies with public money. They'd probably just as quickly support subsidies for solar companies, but whatev. =)

But anyone who's ready to look at an alternative monetary system is a fantastic candidate to learn of Bitcoin. Who knows, perhaps some of them will be led here and ultimately learn about the value of liberty as a cohesive theory, and break out of the absurd right vs left silliness that US peoples are indoctrinated into.

They need Bitcoin, for many reasons.

+1

Maybe a positive slogan offering an alternative will match the "hippie" spirit.

Also, as i mentioned on IRC yesterday and understanding that it may be a little too much, i think it will be nice to give then an opportunity to use the coins nearby.

Donated 2.4142 btc, return addr: 17RSC9tWR4sCPsp7cMq7JLCoe1n1Y9riMW

This post is just some thoughts on what I think could be an effective UI, probably for future incarnations (or what I am taking the liberty of calling 'campaigns') due to limited time.

First, a list of things which, as a user, I would consider turn-offs.

 - appearance of preference for an organization (commercial, political, etc.)
 - need to give personal info.
 - appearance of data mining (cookies, redirects, etc.)

Next, a concern.

 - I like the QR code, and the 'extreme' one that someone posted was pretty cool but I did not like the redirect though.  I do have some concern that if it is 'to easy', people will visit the site in the heat of battle from their phone (which is exactly what I did today when the 'extreme QR' was published.)  I think it would be generally better if the user visited later, from home, when they are relaxing and more likely to be in front of a laptop or workstation.  This so they could focus on the material, take notes, bring up extra browser windows, etc.  All things that would help get a handle on Bitcoin from a starting point.

Next, a 'tour'.
It would be nice if the system remembered where the user was in the tour.  As best I understand things, this could be accomplished without cookies in the case were a unique, per-user URL is published.

====
First screen - Some text like:
====

"We are going to give you actual bitcoin from a pool donated by current users for the purpose of introducing new users to the system.  We believe that Bitcoin is revolutionary in many ways and has the potential to have a positive impact in many parts of the world.  The more users, the more possible this becomes and that is a major goal of this project.

This is real Bitcoin money (albeit not a whole lot.)  It can be converted to USD, EU, RMB, etc, etc using a number of exchange services.  Some of the doners obtained the BTC from exchanges using USD, EU, etc.  Others ran 'mining rigs' to obtain it.

The amount of money we will give you is based on the size of the pool and the number of recipients.  It may vary, and more may be issued to you at a future time.  The only thing required to accept this money is an address which is unique for you.  This address is associated with a secret key which needs to be protected.  There are several ways to obtain such an address:

  - Wallet Service  (a third-party service maintains your address/secret key on-line.)  In some cases, we can obtain this wallet in real time on your behalf for ease of use.
    - instawallet
    - btccinch
    - operationbitcoin.org (yup, us.)
    - whatever

  - Own Lite Client (In this case your secret key is maintained locally.  Not available yet.)

  - Own Full Client  (You may install the client software on your own machine.  In this case, you hold your own private key and participate in supporting transactions in the network, but it is more effort to figure things out.)

  - Have address.  Send funds to this:

=====
Second screen - Some text like this:
=====

"Now, what can you do with your money?  The goal of this page is to demonstrate the ease and flexibility of sending arbitrary amounts of money to different people or groups.  We will help dig up an address and encourage you to excersize the transfer methods of the wallet solution you have chosen.

  - Donate some or all of it to a cause of your choice.  Here are some options that we can think of:

    - occupywallstreet: <address>
    - wikileaks: <address>

  - Donate back to the pool from where these funds were drawn: <address>

  - Give it away at random:

   - last user who went through this: <address>
   - n-th user who went through this: <n in box> <address appears>
 
  - send it to this address: <box for address>

  - do nothing with it...I'll figure it out later.

Note that it is possible for someone to send you funds, or that we will make an adjustment when this campaign is finished.  You may wish to attach your address to a service like

   - bitcoinnotify
   - whatever

so you can be alerted if this happens.

====

OK, I'm tired of this now.  Basically warnings about not trusting people, where to get further info, etc, etc.

One more thing.  I like the way Google technical references and bitcoinity have expandable sections for further descriptions.  I find this very usable, and possibly nice for something as complex as trying to describe Bitcoin to a new user.

I've been following the IRC channel and am satisfied that honest people are working diligently and effectively toward the goal of this project...and on a pretty tight schedule.  Thus, I've followed up with the remainder of my pledge which was another 25 BTC (and again, a bit of change.)

This is nice to hear. I really hope this project succeeds. It would serve as a good example for future projects as well.

I'm on the other side thinking that the time to trying put things nicely and trying to appease everyone is over. I like the more provocative approach as the participation in bitcoin is truly a peaceful way of protesting against Wall St. The purpose is to intrigue them enough to want to find the information on their own and make their OWN decisions about it afterwards.

Putting things grammatically correct and making things look professional and all is needed, but I don't think we need to hold back on the wording just to appease to the general population that are just sitting and watching.

Don't forget this is being prepared for people who are aware of the problems of the Wall St. enough to want to camp out and protest it and not the general sleeping public. There is no reason to candy coat every little thing to them. They already took the red pill so to speak.

 

Would whoever's going to be doing the actual in-person distribution be interested in posting a short write-up of their experience on the Bitcoin Business Review? I think the hows of and reactions to such a campaign would be of pretty wide interest to people in the community...

I'm not in favor of 'sugar coating' any text.  I am, however, sensitive to the issue of displaying to much bluster and making a bad first impression in that way.

I think that you nailed it in terms of piquing people's interest being a key.  Being able to demonstrate a real utility (like working around the PayPal block) is a great way to do this.  Giving people an easy way to actually contribute themselves and get somewhat familiar with Bitcoin in the process is even better.

Using Bitcoin to bypass the PayPal block is in fact a direct assault, a significant victory, and happily also something with is 100% appropriate under the theory that we have a 'free' country.  I am confident that this action will speak louder than any slogans to a lot of the more clued in people.

Bitcoin is drastically out gunned on every front and a significant underdog.  It seems far-fetched that we are going to vanquish the fed and the banks and I personally see no real win in stating that...I mostly see it painting a 'laugh at me' target on us to be honest.  (I actually think that we could 'win by default' at the end of the day, but that is much to nuanced to build a slogan around.)

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/7104/design1b.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/36/design1b.gif/)


Here is the revised version of the landing page, taking peoples' main concerns into consideration.

- "end the fed end the banks" replaced by "obsolete the fed"
- removal of walletbit, no ewallet is mentioned now
- "free coin" is more prominent, as that's the purpose of this campaign

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1968/stack.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/24/stack.gif/)


Here is my card design. Two options (double sided with color background, or single sided with no color background).

The single sided is cheaper and faster to produce. The double sided is more cohesive with the landing page brand look/feel.

Comments? We'll need to finalize a card option by this evening (EST)

Looking quite nice (I like #1)! The one buzz-word that I'd throw in somewhere is "peer-to-peer," as it is something that is both perceived as somewhat radical but non-ideological (and hence appeals to an extremely broad ideological spectrum).

"Open Source" might also be quite effective...

I like the landing page, and both version of the card.

I also like both of the terms 'peer-to-peer' and 'open source' ('open source' means more to me personally, but I suspect that that is not typical.)  Both of these terms should, in my opinion, be slotted for possible inclusion on the hand-out at some point as time and space allows.

I am in favor of neglecting to get into a discussion of anonymity simply because it is to technical and to much of a can of worms for new users.  (I'm glad this has not come up as an issue yet.)

I also like the terms 'non debt-based' and 'non inflationary', but those suffer from the same issues of complexity and technicality as 'anonymous'.

Thank you evoorhees et-al.

I really like the new version. Good job!

http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/3728/designmobile.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/830/designmobile.gif/)


On the recommendation of desklok, we've now created a mobile compatible version. This is very important obviously, since everyone there will be on their phones =) 

pont out that bitcoin is the most powerful distributed computing network in the world. that would make an impression on me

0.5 BTC sent. Make it so!

The page is looking good. Both the mobile and the normal version.

And as for the slogan if it were upto me, I would go with something like "Currency of the Resistance" or something similar.
 
Probably a lot more provocative and extreme than many here would want to go with, but it's what I like.
It sorta stuck with me since Max Keiser used it a while back in his show and I think it will stick with the movement like glue.

As time will surely prove, the fund for the movement will not be safe with banks for long.
It's just a matter of time they will have to rely on bitcoin similar to Wikileaks imho.

Going to print tonight I believe

I think that one of the best ways to avoid being taken seriously is to look like a clown and a buffoon irrespective of whether the shoe fits.  One of the biggest advantages we have is that we are, in fact, 'right' and that a lot of people will support us for that reason, but probably fewer if we are blatantly obnoxious.

I also think that if one is outgunned than it is neither wise nor effective to stand at the top of the hill with a big red target painted on your chest and yelling at the top of your lungs that you are going to decimate.  I favor more subtle attacks and believe that they will be more effective.  If we are seen as provoking a fight, nobody (myself included) is going to be real shocked if we find one.

I strongly suspect that Bitcoin has been noticed by 'the enemies' by virtue of the partial foiling of the financial isolation of wikileaks and occupywallstreet (among other things.)  I think the Bitcoin community should be brainstorming about possible modes of retribution and how best to counter any that may come up.  Painting the community as consisting primarily of dangerous wackos and self-serving scammers is a rather obvious mode of attack (in part because, in my humble opinion, there is an element of truth here) and the less that sticks the better.

I am in favor of being on the attack which is why this project has my support.  But I do believe that we have some significant handicaps and need to be clever and thoughtful about tactics.

(I agree with the 'obsolete the fed' text, BTW.  To me it implies simply that the fed is no longer necessary...thus setting aside the argument about whether it was useful in the first place.  The supporters of keeping the Federal Reserve will be put into a position of explaining why is still necessary in light of other hopefully more preferred sources of monetary management.)

http://operationbitcoin.org and .com is online now.

comments / feedback and questions welcome.

Remember that most of these people have communist sympathies.  So instead of "centrally-planned" put "centrally-controlled" and instead of "fiat" put "corporate".  Completely remove any reference to the federal reserve.  Ending/obsoleting the Fed is Ron Paul's signature issue.  Many of the other republicans have started parroting him.  Perry said that the Fed is treasonous.  These people associate anti-fed = republican = wall street.  Yes, some of these people will read "obsolete the fed" and interpret it as "pro-wall street".

Where are you guys getting your news from I wonder... is it Fox spreading that sort of BS?

Very nice! Did the word "decentralized" make it onto the cards that are going to be handed out? I think it's a must.

As I left winger, a liberal, and something of a socialist, lemme clue you in about how I and a lot of my friends feel.


Anyone can see that 'communism' has little or nothing going for it.  Anyone using the term is almost certainly an brainwashed FoxNews/KochParty simpletons.


I'm going to skip commenting about this at this time and say only that you've indeed identified some things to be mindful of.

But if anyone interprets 'obsolete the fed' as 'pro-wall street' it is likely that it is because we are suspicious that 'wall street money' can and does corrupt political organizations.  Just as does 'Soros money' or whatever.

Quick update: 1,000 cards have been printed and are en route to NYC. The plan is for them to start handing out on Monday

Donations thus far will be going to the printing and shipping expense, and then to maintaining the Bitcoin Faucet (linked from operationbitcoin.org which is QR'd on the cards). There is also an effort to do instawallet preloaded cards with sequential printing, and donation will thus be used to fund that as well.

And THANK YOU to all the generous donations!!! We'll be continuing this project into the other big cities if this protest spreads (word on the street says it is spreading indeed).

BTW, I will be heading back down on Tuesday - if folks are gonna be in the area and want to have an IRL bitcoin gathering, send me a PM...

awesome!

Hi All,

I, and I think others, are not really satisfied with sending new users to the faucet.  I feel that this might cause new users more confusion then help in some ways.  I think that sending them there is pretty much universally accepted as a temporary thing to have something for the weekend.

I spent half the weekend hacking out a prototype system to try to illustrate some ideas I have about system design.  We've had some discussions on the IRC channel, but it's hard to describe things that way, so I instead just tried to hack out a demo.

-----

The thing I'm working on is hoped to be a pretty usable 'new user' walk-through of the following:

 - user understands loosely the terms 'address' and 'wallet' and the basic principles of keeping them safe.

 - user selects his/her wallet solution seeing the back-to-back comparison.  Option to select a pre-funded wallet for speedy progress.

 - user selects something to spend BTC on and actually does it.  Hopefully marvels at how easy it is.

 - Done.  Finished.  User has no more use for the system and the system has no more use for the user.

All services are provided by third parties.  The system simply shows the options back-to-back and makes some non-biased comments about them.  I feel that the best way to learn something is to need to make some decisions.  The system is designed to help the user make informed choices.

-----

I feel that it is very important to show no sign of bias to any vendor, or indication of data collection (and, of course, do none...the world is already too full of data collection...trust me on that!)

I've got things working so that a single URL (printed on a hand-out and with a QR) will take the user through a progressive set of 4 pages.  The system simply knows the user by the 'hash' which is unique per hand-out (card or flyer), and keeps track of what phases the user has been through.  No need for cookies, logins, passwords, etc.  Very simple.

-----

Another design feature is that some significant effort has been put into considering the 'donor' part of the equation.  Not least of which because I am one :)

As  doner, I would like to contribute to (say) #occupywallstreet.  This system gently suggests that the recipient contribute some of the funds he/she was just given to a set of organizations selected by doners via a poll.  Thus, the doner can get hopefully some fraction of his funding to an organization of his/her choice, but help get new Bitcoin users on-line in the process.

I envision a 'campaign' page with a live real-time graphics showing the funds donated pool, and the recipient progress, the pass-thru donation rate, etc.  In this way:

 - donations can be solicited during a campaign and on an as-needed basis.

 - doners can have some real confidence that their funds are being used appropriately.  They can watch it happening in real-time.

------

A big source of debate has been whether to pass out 'pre-loaded' hand-outs with funding, or do the funding of new users in real time.  I prefer the latter for several reasons:

 - it allows the user to select his/her wallet solution.
 - it allows much more generious funding to recipients as only the handouts being used need to be funded.
 - it allows many more hand-outs to be distributed, and the distribution broken up amongst semi-non-trusted distributors.
 - it fits in with my thoughts on 'real time use graphics' to hopefully prop up doner interest and involvement.
 - I think it would actually be easier to do than not.

I would like it if someone could volenteer to print up and pass out cards, and 1/2 an hour later be on the street doing so.

I believe that only a small fraction of the handouts will ever be acted upon, but that it will be difficult to predict the use rate.  While hand-out accounts could be retracted eventually, quite a bit of funding could be tied up for some period of time (It would be nice if the card could be used successfully weeks or months after it was issued.)

------

I have also put some thought into management of the 'hash lists'.  Compromise of these could lose funds, and they need to be handed out to 'distributors/printers' in the heat of battle.

------

I'm not a web designer and have very limited experience with web application frameworks.  The system I've hacked out is quick-n-dirty to put it mildly.  It is just to illustrate flow.  Most of the important things are not done, and, for example, I just used a pickle instead of a real database.

I've got it running on my machine at home and have set up my firewall to redirect to it.  If anyone is interested please PM me and I'll give a test hash to try out.  Or the source code to run locally (but again, I caution that it is just a few hours of hacking and is totally throw-away.)

Here is the '/help' output if would help illustrate anything (I used random 'two_word' variation of 'hashes' because I think it would be more user friendly and good enough for the purpose of this project the project stands in my mind.)

- / - info about 'operationbitcoin'.
- /help - this message.
- /reload - reload class objects.
- /die - try to shut down server.
- /{campaign} - e.g., /ows info about campaign (funds, stats, etc.)
- /{campaign}/{hash} - e.g., /ows/bird_rock.
- /{campaign}/{hash}/info - info about user.
- /{campaign}/{hash}/[0123] - user's {n}th page.
- /{campaign}/{hash}/reset - demo-only...wipes user from db.

I've no idea what the future of this variant of solution is.  I hope some of the ideas are adopted by this (operationbitcoin.org) project.  If not, I may or may not continue to pursue it.  Although I would learn a lot of things I would like to know (about implementing web-apps and such) by continuing dev work here, I've a short attention span which is not conducive to operating long running projects.

I think it would be much more effective to replace 'obsolete the fed' with 'obsolete wall street'.  The former may be more precise, but I'm not sure precision should be the primary criterion for a tagline.

1) 'obsolete wall street' establishes a catchy parallelism with 'occupy wall street', and implicitly answers the question, "well, we've occupied it – now what?"

2) Seriously, people are going to think of Rick Perry when they read that.  It may be a superficial response, but it's still corrosive.

Just got this from Yifu via Skype
https://i.imgur.com/q9xbol.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/1iDEQ.jpg)
seems like the goods have arrived.

And FYI - the QR code points here: operationbitcoin.org (http://operationbitcoin.org)

I must have had the same idea as evoorhees, because I just finished prototyping some Java code to do pretty much what he specified in the original thread.


It lets you...

Create up to N empty Instawallet addresses.
Fill them each with N bitcoins (from "master" Instawallet account, but could be from bitcoind).
Print out an 8.5" x 11" sheet with 12 business cards on it, each containing a little blurb, an Instawallet address, and the associated QR code.

Tomorrow, I'm getting 48 of them printed at Kinkos, which I funded with 0.5 BTC each.

Is there still interest in this?

YES YES YES!!!  Hey jump in IRC #operationbitcoin   That's where we've been organizing. Someone else is making a similar system to yours, and that's the ultimate goal.  Please join the discussion I'd love to see what you made!

So have any cards been given out yet? Weren't you guys aiming for Monday?

First of all, you are doing really great work here. My suggestion for management of the hash list is to make all the tools for generating these cards public. Then donors can actually just fund and generate the cards themselves to hand out.

In my little prototype thingy, I had a set of little files of the form:

  ows-pr1.dat
  ows-pr2.dat
  ...

These files contain simply a set of 'hashes' (though the form I choose was two-random-word sets instead of random chars.)  These, along with possibly a binary (with source) which produced .ps or .pdf files would be given out to volunteers who wanted to print and distributed hand-outs.  (A variation would be that the central server generates the hand-outs to print, but it does not matter much.)

I anticipated these files being generated by a main system mainly to avoid hash collisions, but also to track somewhat what the use rate of different distributions would be.  Part of the reason for doing so would be to detect and limit fraud.  That is, if some genius distributor got the idea of cashing in all the handouts himself it could probably be noticed and dealt with.

But it is the case that it would be quite trivial to accept donations to be assigned only to a specific -pr{n}.dat, and I see not good reason why that could not be an option.  Or just have a whole different campaign and let the interested party do his/her own 'campaign page' for it (and have a distributor list of their own if they want.)

Let me just add that in any dev work I might do on such a system I would expect to keep it in a form which could fairly easily be operated by anyone.  That is to say, the org structure and server implementation would be conducive to dropping it onto a machine, hooking it up to a domain name, and going.  And it would be open source of course.

Managing doner pool wallet(s) would be better done on a different machine with some sort of a limited API for communications, but I think that the necessary operations which the 'server system' would need of the 'banking system' would be pretty minor so it should be relatively easy to harden.

I'll be handing out bitcoin material and buttons starting Oct. 15 in Madison Wisconsin.
We will be representing the 99% of people who are not rich, and showing our support for our brothers gathering on Wall St. Here in Wisconsin we have already thrown out two of our politicians and Gov. Walker is next. Join us as we take back our government.

wow, Yifu Guo finished the page he was promising about.

http://operationbitcoin.org/wallst/transparency.html

One last brainstorming thought I just had (when I should be working...)

It should be possible under a 'just-in-time' hand-out funding scheme, to create a wallet for each _donor_.  The donor could then decide if they liked the way the campaign was progressing and add to or withdraw their funding autonomously and quickly.

The system forming up in my mind is to have enough flexibility that there could be quite a variation in the way different campaigns are operated.  It could also be used for a range of promotional things as well.

---

The single most important thing to me is that as many people as possible are introduced to Bitcoin, and in such a way that they do not end up getting burnt.  That is to say, they at least have exposure to info they need to protect themselves.

The second most important thing to me is that any system I am involved with does not collect data on users or at the very least, is very transparent to users about what info is being collected and how it is being used (e.g., the IP address from where the user came.)

Appreciated.

I was a little bit bummed that there seemed to be no specific mention of trentzb:

 - managing the donations and doing a pretty detailed outline of them.
 - doing the QR code generation work which I believe ended up being used (?)
 - having a good deal of participation in design work and ideas.

I apologize if the lack of mention was per trentzb's wishes (or if the mapping between usernames on this forum is inaccurate in my mind.)

The QR generation work isn't ready yet but will be used later on (currently only renders properly in browsers that won't print the background!) but he's doing a great job on it sofar, he should be credited with opening the IRC in the firstplace as well

afiak, Yifu made this page for trentzb so he can distribute donations properly. I'll tell him about this.

transfering my bitcoins to my wallet right now and updating my block chain. 1.5 bitcoins coming your way. This MUST be!

i'd like to add also, if this turns into a bigger ordeal i will gladdly donate all my bitcoins and anything els i can... it's a sad thing if this thing dies

return address in signinture

Sent 1BTC.
Don't send it back to me. Get the job done. ;)

Yifu - on the transparency page (looks great btw!) please mark my work as pro bono. I won't be requesting compensation.

My compensation will be if just one angry socialist discovers Bitcoin and comes to learn what free market really means  ;)

3 BTC donated.

https://blockexplorer.com/t/3xVD9dd1ye
send any *return to* btc to occupy wall st: 1Q7DQVTubbUqr5by2YoZJRKCEzj9D3LQ9w

*Cough*
http://www.facebook.com/ratm4xmas

Card has two much text to look slick and modern. I think the slogan at the top should be shortened considerably. No good ideas yet though.

Also, consider the following changes:

replace: decentralized, peer-to-peer -> open source, peer-to-peer (decentralized is redundant and not a buzz word, open source is a buzz word)
deletion: it is a grand ... fiat money (this is uninformative and irrelevant to target audience)
deletion: "obsolete the fed" (obsolete is not a verb, moreover target audience wants an alternative to Wall Street banks, not the FED)
replace: you're invited to learn more about bitcoin -> To learn more about bitcoin

I just sent 3.5btc, if for some reason they are not used for this please donate them to Occupy Wall Street.  Thank You.

Showing my support. Donated .5, it should come from 12NcNYb2oEh6ANo95AakEjPqQdgbcxh4m9 , but if the project fails? or something, if you want, send that .5 somewhere where it is needed. A project like this or w/e.

Edit:
Came from 1GrjT4c9ArPxxnY3D1p5oWHjpaZic9HNwS linked to 12NcNYb2oEh6ANo95AakEjPqQdgbcxh4m9

5 bitcoins sent.   AWSOME work so far.  

btc transactioin: 030fac20b0b3eca657a9c886d84a827f0dc79ecd7647e12a91bee54c220bff5e

Is there somewhere where I can see updates on the progress of this project? Can you update the 1st post?

EDIT: Found it! (http://operationbitcoin.org/wallst/transparency.html) (Thanks deslok)

I also just donated 2btc to  1EUqkFmL9HNpBRvbWRAqCiUjepaR7Vbryp  this is the btc addy of FeedTheProtest

LOL, That was pretty funny Eric.

Wow if I knew 100+ btc could be raised off of ~3 hrs of web development I wouldn't have bought all that mining hardware. If bitcoin is so great why can't you tell me yourself? Instead I have to go on an easter egg hunt, visiting other websites to learn. You don't even make an ATTEMPT to sell it(like for instance tell me how many people are already using it). I know you're trying to keep it simple but if I knew nothing about bitcoin I would probably dismiss it as another Nigerian scam site, with the rushed design and half-assed descriptions. Its a site that creates more questions than answers. Just my opinion though. Best of luck.

Here are the buttons I'm handing out at #OccupyMadison.  Thanks to deslok for the printing.

http://i53.tinypic.com/8x6974.jpg

"the people's money" is a great slogan

Great work guys.   Hey, as I am not near any protests, is there a way I can get a hold on these cards and buttons and such?

I used   BANKS FEAR BITCOINS  at occupy portland, and some people didnt like it.
Seems we are not suppose to spread 'fear'. Oops.

So I talked about it with them, and I am making a new sign. I'll be switching over to..

"Ask me about Digital Currency"

I was thinking of "One World Currency" and hand out paper keys worth 0.0666 BTC.

My feelings on this project are evolving.  I'm glad I helped fund it, but I have some serious questions about whether it is doing anyone a favor to suck them into Bitcoin at this time, and I've had some discomfort here even when the project started to be honest.

I believe that at this time, about 95% of people are not ready for Bitcoin, and Bitcoin is not ready for about 95% of the population.

Of the remaining 5%, 4% they could probably handle it, and handle themselves, if they were started out with some very clear and non-sugar-coated information about the nature and history of the project and the motives of a certain segment of the community.  The other 1% would be fine even if they were guided straight into the tender and loving arms of MyBitcoin (or whatever the next one may be.)

I don't believe that some ultra-slick marketing campaign is likely to be terribly effective with most of these people, and I am not terribly surprised that trying to tap into some streak of visceral fear and hatred within these people was less than successful.

I continue to believe that the very best advertising for Bitcoin is simply demonstrating that it exists it does indeed work, and doing that through low-key support of their efforts.  That is what I will be doing going forward (if anything.)

Yifu pretty much has the same feelings when it comes to this and it was pretty much the original plan see http://freenetworkfoundation.org/pipermail/ows_solutions_freenetworkfoundation.org/2011-October/000513.html

more transparency from the ows_solutions mailing list :)

I appreciate the pointer to that.

I would hope that the GA spends it's bitcoin to make purchases rather than convert them into dollars at an exchange.  If we wanted that we would have given them old school money.  Have any of our peers involved with the New York protests given the GA a list of merchants who take BTC?

also, Thanks phelix. I copied it from someone her on the forums.

All these promotional materials that you all have designed, are they available anywhere for someone like me to print out? I love would love to pass bussiness cards or flyers out at Ron Paul booths in my town.

this feature has been backlog'd, but let me know which particular design you need I'll just ask Yifu to upload it for now instead of waiting for him putting them onto the site.

.

cool, Thank you!

If Yifu has as any business card size promotion materials on pdf, that would be great.

I will provide images of them being handed out.

Thank You

source: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/n2ar6/update_operation_bitcoin_state_of_things/