Bitcoin Forum

By the most logical thinking:

•  There's strong evidence that the late 2017 spike in Bitcoin value was due to manipulation via Tether.

•  IF that is so, then that entire episode actually means nothing, and...

•  Bitcoin etc values will decay back to their historical levels prior to pump & dump.

•  This will be slow because interim buyers won't want to take the losses.

Look at BC charts for the past 6 months.  It's very easy to imagine the average value continuing to decay down to $400 in 12-18 months.  And that's what makes sense - at least, more sense than anything else.

A few brilliant traders will make money getting in and out during the decline, but all the other players here are just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.  The only "charting" you need is the big picture here:

https://imgur.com/a/QTYOQyL (https://imgur.com/a/QTYOQyL)

Unfortunately, there seems to be no reliable way to buy a put on BC for that time-frame, or I would.

i believe bitcoin have a very bright future because bitcoin is very useful currency in market and its playing avery big role in any country economy.

And what strong evidence is that? Do you care to show "proofs" or at least fundament your theory?
I have no idea where you are getting the facts to fundament your claims, but I think bitcoin fundamentals are intact, even though we are seeing a decline in it's price. I would agree with market manipulation, after big players bought in BTC during futures, and are now manipulating the price in order to keep profiting from it. They will probably try to cycle it back up again, and keep doing it until BTC develops further and get the adoption it deserves because of its potencial. Once that happens, it's liquidity will be to large to allow market manipulation and we will be fine. It will take a while though, but that's my belief.

It is illogical to assume that since bitcoins has depreciated to this price within the last 6 months, by the next 6 months it will decline to less than 1000 usd. The market don't work that way.

No, there's not. If that "strong evidence" is a single paper by some American professor, who at the same time might be shorting BTC knowing that his paper may shake some weak hands, you're not really making a point.

Even if we assume the research was legit, according to it tether was responsible for half of the price increase in late 2017.
If we assume that "late" means November and December, because before that it was a slow and steady rise, we went from 4700 to 20k, so more or less 15k. Half of that would be 7k, so if tether has completely no backing and all of it is fake, it made the price go up by 7,5k. We've already went down by almost the same amount. Even if USDt were to be fake, which it isn't and worst case scenario only a small percentage of its supply is faked, we wouldn't go much lower than we are now.

I do not think Bitcoin can fall below $ 4,000 because its value is much higher. Although Bitcoin and cryptocurrency are facing a lot of difficulties in the current time, the long-term potential is very large so investors should not be too worried because of the fluctuations in this time of the market.

If this happens, what else do you expect the market to do. I was reading and waiting for you to send a link to indicate the short down of bitcoin and probably, the introduction of another.

Maybe there are still so many people who are so unsure of the bitcoin system for the future, maybe for now it is still in fantastic price decline in all markets, it does not mean bitcoin will just hurt, this problem there must be a breed that will be much better at the price know yesterday and there will likely be a bigger increase ..

Title of the thread conveys enough to understand the post isn't thought so logically.

Bitcoin started with less than $1? Did tether even exists back then? FLAWED logic right here.

What?

I'm still trying to find some sense of logic in your post. If everyone still holds their coins, how would the value fall? Magically?

Last week it saw an upside down value of $600. Falling and Rising is part of the bitcoin economy.

The bitcoin is still increasing and improving the wealth or income that can help the society, even though it has ups and downs still we need to trust and understand the value of bitcoin and with that the bitcoin will help you.

This kind of defeatist attitude doesn’t help much, does it? Might as well tell everyone to get out of cryptocurrency right now. As for me, I’m staying put. I don’t wanna miss a thing. Bitcoin forever!

In this market many millions of dollars a day are moved, not only in the excchanges also in localbitcoin millions are moved in a day, I do not believe that its value goes down to such an extreme, I just know that December are the good medes of bitcoin and insurance this December will have a good rise is just a matter of taking advantage of the curve.

you made an statement in the first line which you immediately discredit in the next line :D

no, look at the charts for the past 9 years. this kind of ups and downs is the most common thing in bitcoin and tether has only been around for a tiny portion of that time.

if you let your imagination go wild then you can imagine anything. you can also easily imagine aliens attack :D

then why did you place buy orders at $6100, $6000 and $5900?!!!

You're putting wayyyyyy too much faith in that one study that said 2017 was due to price manipulation. There was also a study that came out maybe half a year ago or so that said 2013 was also due to price manipulation...and yet the price went 20x higher sooooo, basically these so called studies are complete BS.

Looking at the BTC charts for the past 6 months says anything but the price is going to $400 in 12-18 months. ha, that is pure crazy talk. It has failed to break down significantly below 6000 3 times over the past 6 months and yet you see it going to less than 10% of that price?!?! That is some bizarre prediction. What the past 6 months really show is a bottom of the market at $6000, and the next boom likely coming in the next 12-18 months in which the Bitcoin price will be targeting $50k-$100k most likely.

I don't agree with you. I think the price of BTC will be up in the future. Compared with the previous years, the price of BTC has increased a lot.

Wrong thinking. What has been tethered has pumped the price, and this is irreversible. Price has dropped  for other reasons and thus might (will) go up again.

Bitcoin is always bright because every year some fluctuation is happen in the market. But again and again this will raise in constantly so we do not think negatively bitcoin is never down in future but dump and pump is possible in every year. I think year too much dump was occur so this month we should expect some good results.

It's funny how people are trying to stand up as if they know everything; where were you before all this started? You were probably one of the plenty enjoying the ride up, and now you got burned, you act all bitter. These cycles come and go and are impossible to time and impossible to figure out what exactly caused them, other than the obvious.

In the end all these gigantic pumps are equal to each other, and empty of nature, which has been proven year on year with how the market corrects. Another thing that has been proven year on year is the fact that all time highs do get broken through, and in this case things aren't different. Go with the flow and stop constantly trying to understand something that won't and can't ever be understood.

Tether and the futures markets will get blamed for all (up and down) movements from now on. Is that fair? No, but people are too ignorant to look beyond what's right in their face.

No one knows the future of bitcoin, and I think you're too quick to make the bitcoin theory fall in the future, but it looks like your theory is based on your own panic.

I further believe bitcoin will grow and increase in value. Your way of thinking is too negative about bitcoin, and your theory will not happen in the future.

This is serious and I am beginning to think either to continue holding or sell off.  The rate at which bitcoin do go down is higher than the rate it go up for the past 6 months.  It seems the market is being controlled by those that wish to pull it down.  The best thing to do is to watch and be careful on how we invest now.

I also think that Bitcoin will fall down. But in my opinion it will fall to 1,2 - 3K$ by middle of September. Then it will slowly recovery to the current prices and start full rising in the beginning of spring in the next year.

Please sell off, so we are free from another impatient imbecile. If you can't understand that what goes up quick comes down quick, you shouldn't be here. Nothing justified the price to go up that high and to stay high -- the healthy correction took us back to levels where the price is much easier to maintain. Most of the downward pressure is gone, and in case we go down further it will be a minor decline from this point. It makes no sense to sell now because you are too late. Smart people buy at current levels, dumbos sell -- in case of the latter they will regret it and buy back at much higher levels. It's called capital destruction.

So bitcoin is dead only because there was a crash on the market? came on my friend, the end has not come to an end, we are going to see a lot of downsides on the near future, you need to be more than used to see this kind of stuff in here

you realize this all equally applies to the mt gox willy bot?

the fact of the matter is that real demand existed at bubble prices. real buyers were buying at $10k-$20k (and they are suffering for it now). you can't possibly attribute all demand for BTC to price manipulation. that's crazy. it has applicable use cases now, and many people (myself included) are betting on its success (with our real money) regardless of whether the 2017 bubble even happened.

Future of the bitcoin have big chance to recover. If you think bitcoin future is down or no possible to recover again better if you quiet because many people if they see this thread are panic like the newbie. More people until now like millions of people still investing to bitcoin.

Here's all you need to know.  It's on the way back to where it came from.  You can watch from the sidelines or ride it down.

https://imgur.com/a/QTYOQyL

By the most logical thinking as well:

1. If you take a look at the biggest picture, you are clearly presented with a pattern that shows nothing but a consistent growth of Bitcoin.

2. If there is a strong evidence that shows manipulation in the 2017 price surge via Tether, you are not showing even a little of it.

3. Bitcoin is obviously not a pump and dump coin. Come to your senses, if it is hard to pump and dump a certain coin worth millions in USD, it is impossible to pump and dump a coin which is worth more than a hundred billion.

I hope you walk the talk. Let us see who will regret the biggest at the end of the day.

sure the value of bitcoin can always recover because people will obviously buy it if they see a big oppurtunity such as dips or major crashes . it is also normal for bitcoin to go down or up due to the demand that it recieves from the masses .


lol. no one will  get panic just because of this . anyone even newbies  thesedays are now knowlledgeable about the characteristics of bitcoin , which means they are already aware about the price changes .

everyone of us is expecting that bitcoin futures will be bright because the adoption of it are still spreading like a wildfire .

Bitcoin is the best coin.I think bitcoin's growth will be better in the future.The price of bitcoin is currently down in the market.But I think it will cross $23000 by the end of the year.I believe Bitcoin will grow in the future.

i dont understand why you are trying to create this huge amount of fud ,the market is on a good condition at the moment , and everything seems to go up ,so there is nothing to be worried about at the moment, just buy as many bitcoins as you can afford

for me on this mid it will increase gradually and reach 9k again but it will decrease again as well as a correction of growth rate which is after the correction it will  to jump back to the current price  and will increase more gradually until November IMO.  

No the future of bitcoin will be more bright, dont judge the future with current situation.The fall and rise are common in the market, the price would low till yesterday. But today there is a little change, the price of bitcoin increase slightly. Normally in the middle of the year the price starts to increase. Likewise this year also happens, today the market is in green and value increase little. I think slowly the market will recover little by little the price starts to increase and by the end of this year it will show its tremendous growth.

This site is a social scientist's dream.  Ten PhDs could be written on the "bro" investment culture, groupthink, and general simple-mindedness.  95% of the responses to my prediction are "NO - ya gotta have faith!!"; "All markets go up and down"; "Think long-term"; and "We are the strong, and we believe".

The "long-term" heroes actually jumped in to get rich quick.  When that didn't happen, and faced with losing half their money, they are now prophets of HODL.  If the price ever does rise to where they got in, they'll sell, sell, sell.  That's a huge barrier to any advance.

But all that doesn't matter.  Bitcoin is GOING DOWN.  Back to around $400, as it was for so long.  That's apparently the real value to folks making non-standard financial transactions, primarily criminals.

Again, look at the chart in the link.  With what we know now, it's obvious that the price was manipulated, you were cheated, and if you hang on you'll lose more.

I'll be back in 18 months to say "Told ya so".  But I hope you're all out long before then.


EDIT:  For the record, I have no crypto coin.  All my money is in mutual funds.  Still risky but has done well AND you don't get cheated.  Sell your BC and buy something sensible like that.  You can still be a "playah".

so I have to sell all the bitcoin I have before the price drops to $ 400? it's very funny, while you yourself will buy bitcoin.

Why do you think that the end is here? the price is just suffering by a little bit but it has already started to go up, i dont understand why it should be something bad to all of us. Indeed, it is good if you want to keep investing even more.

Yes, that's exactly what you should do.  Sell now.

No, I won't be buying any crypto.   No fundamental value or backing, and way too easy to be cheated.

"Dude use a logarithmic scale so you can see more clearly what is going on"

Dude, the only reason for log scales or any other charting shenanigans is trying to find some reason to hope.  Like I said in the OP - you're just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.  You're missing the forest for the trees.  Stand back and look at the big picture, which is very clear:  It's going down.  Of course it will jump around on the way down, but that won't change the overall trend.

https://imgur.com/a/QTYOQyL (https://imgur.com/a/QTYOQyL)


[And - how do you post pictures right in the message like that?]

Using a non-ranked alt-account to make an outlandish bear prediction in order to not face defeat when said prediction doesn't happen and we go to all time highs.

I have seen this one before. Kwukduck is that you again?

Sorry, but there is too much demand for Bitcoin, there's no way it's going to $400, because there will be a lot of people buying at higher prices. Anything below $5000 is a steal, anything below $1500 is a once in a lifetime opportunity. Have fun with your mutual funds, you may finally be rich by age 100.


You can't post pictures with your newly created alt-account.

Probably not going to happen to bitcoin, bitcoin being the most popular and the future of bitcoin is not bleak, and I believe the future of bitcoin will be brighter and much better than it is today.

Thanks, I have had fun and will be rich long before 100.

BTW mutual funds are long-term.  Which is the approach everyone here recommends - now that getting rich quick didn't work out.

My advice is simply to learn from your mistake, and don't make it worse based on slogans, dreaming, groupthink, and slanted advice in general.  Just look at who's stirring the pot... the coin exchanges.  They're the only ones who continually make money out of this.

If you must invest in crypto, sell now and buy back in at $400.  That at least isn't obviously dumb.  The market may be pumped again someday.  Or put your money in a real investment.

Yes now the price of bitcoin is down, but at the same time today market starts with green. The price also increase slightly, the downtrend is slighlty change to upward. But dont know whether it is going to continue or not. If it continues bitcoin holders are happy otherwise people lost their faith in bitcoin. If it continues means slowly it will rise and by the end of this we can expect the huge growth from the bitcoin. So hope market will recover soon. Use this down to buy more bitcoin and hold it for future.

Great idea! Let's buy as many all time high stocks as possible. Let's buy into London's housing market as well. Are these investments real enough for you?

If people worry that much about the fiat value of their crypto investment, they can choose to use BitMex to short or long 10% of their holdings as insurance. It would have been a great help for people if they did it closer to January of this year. Instead of fearing a continuous decline they would be counting profits right now. It's not for nothing that BitMex's volumes are still on the higher side -- people actually use it for that purpose. Excuses nowadays are worthless with how you can benefit from each and every direction the market heads to. Either use these tools in your advantage or cry yourself to sleep.

We need to look at the market from investor's point of view as we have noticed from past 6 months that bitcoin's value is gradually going down but once in every 2 month there will be a temporary pump in the value of bitcoin. We need to utilize these moments to make gain until the next bull run.

•  We shouldn't be anonymous?  Is 'anunymint' your real name?

•  We shouldn't be newbies?  How did you avoid that?

•  So what if Legendary bought at $2?  99% of the people here didn't.

Who bought for how much doesn't matter anyway - now is the time for everyone to sell.  I explained why that's the only move, based on what we know instead of what you might like to believe.


The Legendary comment is a typical of discussion here, thrown in for effect but making no actual sense.  And you call me an idiot!  OK, I change my recommendation:  you should buy more; everyone else should sell.

I expect the bull run in the market at the this September mate. Here you do not need to find the marketplace value of the any top coins because however we know those coins will go to big in the market.

If you have same thought like me invest your money on Eth, NEO, NEM, TRX and IOTA.
These coins will give 200 percentage profit if you invest today means as well.

If I scurried off to analyze any link you feel like posting, I would be an idiot.  The coin industry churns out hundreds of these a week.  Next, I can guarantee you're not older.  And if you're upside-down on Bitcoin, you're not wiser either.  So you've shot your mouth off here 40 times - big deal; from what I've seen that's hardly a credential.

You're probably looking at a loss now, judging from all the passion against someone predicting a fall.  Did you buy at $10K?  You'll never get that back.  When BC does keep coasting down, you'll blame all the people who didn't just believe, believe, believe - like in the movies, where that works.

Or maybe - outside chance on this - you can get Legendary to sell you his/her coins.  Since you think their experience is so relevant.

I posted what looks like an obvious trend with a known cause.  That deserves to be presented, because almost nothing else about BC has either of those characteristics.  Ergo, the coastdown is most likely, and the smartest move now is get out.  (Not you; you should continue buying... and it will get cheaper all the time!).

Enjoy your red ink!

So you're saying that we should get away from btc and just invested in the same thing you have invested? Sorry but all of your analysis isn't enough to convince us to part ways with btc. We've seen so much FUD, people pulling down btc, etc. We are making money here more than you earn on that investment of yours so why would we switch. No, thanks.

Anyone else who predicted Bitcoin going down was right - at least in the last 6 months.  It's easy to call a prediction you don't like "FUD", but what do you expect?  There are no analyses proving that BC will go up or down.  Everyone except those who can manipulate the market are guessing.  Read the posts here - they're all either faith or guesswork.  I'm pointing out that the chances of BC going down have much more basis than any faith or hope it will go up.  A negative prediction isn't "pulling down BC".  Do you only listen to positive predictions??

Are you making money now?  Since January?  Really?  Then you're one of the sharp traders I mentioned who can time the market and profit on short-term changes.  The other 99% of the folks here will just lose more the longer they hold.  And if they try to time the market they'll lose faster.

It doesn't matter whether you bought at $2 or $20,000.  That's past.  If you hold onto BC now you're almost certainly going to lose money.  The value of your account will be down 90% in 18 months.

the get-rich-quickers are getting washed out of the market as we speak. a market dropping 70% from the highs will do that. ;)

doesn't mean the long term uptrend is threatened or that mutual funds are in the same league of returns......


i'll acknowledge this is still officially a bear market and we could go far lower. but $400 just isn't realistic. the lowest (% wise) we've ever dropped was after the 2011 bubble. that equivalent would put us at ~ $1000, worst case. every other bubble correction landed higher (2012, april 2013, november 2013).

based on history, aiming for $1000 is low probability and $400 is a pipe dream.

You're a BC investor and you don't know about this?  Google "bitcoin manipulated tether".  Here's where it starts:

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3195066 (https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3195066)

Maybe.  I wouldn't be real surprised if it ultimately flattens out at $600-$800.  But in the big picture today, those are details.  It still means "get out now".

And - I never said mutual funds are in the same league of returns.  I said they have good returns and are hugely less risky (which itself is a form of return).

Going long term on Bitcoin will outperform going long term on mutual funds or any other conventional investment of choice.

How much money are you willing to bet that Bitcoin will go back to $400 next year?

How much money are you willing to bet that your mutual funds will outperform Bitcoin?

Not necessarily. Price still hasn't broken down from the February - July range, which means this could still be a major bottom area. I'm leaning bearish (though I'm on the sidelines with no short open), but I'm just pointing out the time to sell was months ago. There's a decent chance selling the $6,000s = selling the bottom.

Even a mid-term bull trap could allow people to exit at 2x this price while you're waiting for sub-$1K prices. I prefer to wait for significant trading ranges to break, then ride the trend. We've been sideways for too long, need more evidence of downtrend continuation now.

Source?  For 'will outperform' (not 'has outperformed') of course...  lots of fuzzy thinking on this forum.


I didn't say $400 next year.  I said it's heading for $400 in 18 months.  Maybe two years.  Maybe $600 or even $800.  Look at the curve - it shows the main idea:  down, down, down.   Feel free to replace my guesswork with your guesswork on the details.  I'm just trying to point out the big picture implications of what we now know.

https://imgur.com/a/QTYOQyL (https://imgur.com/a/QTYOQyL)

If I could reliably buy a put on BC for 18 months out, I'd put $50K or $100K into it.  I'd probably price it at $800 to have some margin.  The profit would still be huge.  However, not only do I know nothing about such maneuvers, others have looked into it and say it's impractical.  A Forbes writer did a detailed piece on that several years ago, pointing out some hidden gotchas with crypto.  Can't find the link now but it certainly put me off.


Actually, I'm betting all my money that the mutual funds will do better.  Over the next 18 months I expect the market to return a 15% profit, not an 90% loss.  And as I noted earlier, my money won't be outright stolen, and I won't be cheated.  Those are huge benefits.  And I sleep well at night.

It won't easy to the users if bitcoin will continue to decrease because a lot of users are now depend on it but if we have a lot of hard work to promote it more to new investors I think it will save bitcoin price in future so probably many will back and patronize bitcoin.

Got it.  53 is the breakpoint for "older and wiser".  Older than that is dumber.  The rules are confusing.

Good on you for posting under your real name.  I don't choose to, sorry.  That makes me dumber too, I know.

See ya here in 18 months.

Yup.  Even dumb ol' me knows that selling high is better.  But you give no reason to suppose there will be any such major increase.

Again, any rise will run into exponential resistance as those now disenchanted sell out, when they get close to recovering their money.  That's just an observation - my main point is that the overall trend will be down, meaning only the sharpest traders should buy along the way.

Looks like there was just enough pressure to push us over the $6,700 resistance level, we will probably trade horizontally for a while until the next big rally back over $10,000. Hopefully it comes sooner rather than later, as we need more interest in crypto.

The tether manipulation is unfortunately a likely cause of much of bitcoins growth in 2017 as I did menton way back in december before the markets crashed.

I don't remember exact calculations right now but there is real growth in crypto that will offset a decline back to $400, I think it was something like 50% per quarter or half year which would put us squarely at around $2000-3000 as absolute bottom but again, I don't remember the calculation. It's in my historic post if you need specifics. It is also possible that there will need to be a spike downwards to really acknowledge the fake growth, so below $1k could happen but very briefly and quickly back up, similar to a flash crash.

If this ultra bearish scenario unfolds, -80% from $20k is a given no matter the other circumstances, so that's where people who are not yet invested should start looking for an entry and then buy more at $500 intervals down towards $2k and keep some for the flash crash if there is time.

Long term, 15 years say, blockchain and AI with androids will merge and progress world GDP to $1Quadrillion+ in a roaring 20's 2.0.

I understand that you consider actively betting that you are right by not holding any bitcoins and by putting your money in mutual funds, but that's not how it works.

In order to put your money where your mouth is, you have to bet against someone here that your prediction will be right. So are you willing to bet money in your prediction? 18 months from now, $800 or lower (you initially said $400 but you are raising now to double that... okay). Bitbet can be used to automate the 18 month countdown. Im sure you can find some rich guys in this forum willing to take the bet and make a lot of money on you being right and us being wrong. Are you down?

If that is what you think, then I am not sure what I actually need to tell you to think otherwise. You think because we are in a downtrend, the number of users have simply decreased as a result of that?

What you saw last year was a manipulated pumped price as far as I am concerned, but that does not mean the growth of bitcoin is hindered forever. When a value is moved based on speculation only without some real demand, then, the likelihood of a correction is higher in percentage. It is a good thing though for those who got in for the right reasons, as the bottom will eventually end up a good buy whichever way. It is just unfortunate that those who simply are just gullible, looking for quick ways to get rich without knowing what makes bitcoin really what it is to even know what the future could be greatly holding, are the ones who still come back to join the FOMO over and over again after missing the dip.

All these logistics and speculations must be backed up by some real evidences .
These type of random speculations just results in a widespread of panic and distrust among people in respect to bitcoin . If the future for bitcoin will be down , we will see it for ourselves . Until then , no such statement matters.

Friends, I guess that's not going to happen to bitcoin, I find it hard to believe that the future of bitcoin falls. Bitcoin is not a weak coin, and bitcoin is more likely to have a bright future.

I guess you missed the point about trading range.

You're telling people to short directly after a tweezer bottom on the 1-week chart, near the bottom of a long term range! I don't need reasoning to assume price can break upward from a range (even though you claim it can only break down). I'm also not dumb enough to short horizontal support before it's actually failed.

Your entire approach is that of someone who is constantly getting their shorts squeezed, and what's even worse is that you're going on about "manipulation via Tether." Nobody gives a shit about Tether. Nobody gave a shit about the Willy bot either.


Cuz Tether?

We get it. A bubble happened. A correction is happening. As someone who has been trading Bitcoin for several years now, let me tell you something: the correction will never play out as you expect. You should be thinking in possibilities, not merely assuming this correction will play out as the most bearish of all historic corrections (by far). You have no historical data points or even conventional chart patterns to support your thesis.

Speculation is just speculation it migth true until such time it can happen. Absolutely this people should have proof of statement, because we do not know yet when is the price can turns back at all time high. But I don't think future is down.

What happens with bitcoin through the network is beyond reality. We just understand the market and predict according, but it has got its potential to make change which can be quite often realized. If this is to go down in the future it could have begun long back itself, now the usage keeps on increasing which won't let it down.

Don't say word that might shot you on the future, just remember that there are well known person who said that Bitcoin is a bubble but now they are on the top 100 earning from it and advertise it!

I agree with you, many of us give a prediction about bitcoin but still, it's a prediction or speculation. we don't know until it's happening and there will be a debate for about bitcoin in the future. personally, I think bitcoin future will not down and will increase higher but we need to wait for this and enjoy our time to see what will happen in the future.

I think the whales has something to do with this dip because they are the ones with the resources of manipulating bitcoin's price. We are just a small fish here that won't make a difference.

Intrigued, I looked into BitBet.  Most sites discussing it are dead, and the place itself has had major ups and downs.  I doubt there's any way for me to safely invest enough money to make a speculation on this trend worthwhile.  I'm certainly not going to risk an escrow loss as well.

So I'll just watch.  I think BC clearly demonstrated its utility over the first 7-8 years, and that's at $400 or maybe $600.  All the harangue of the past 9 months will coast down back to that.

I feel the same and I think it's a plan to make the market bleed by withdrawing huge amount so that they can buy it again and have it for the bull run which is speculated to be at the end of this year again.

Nice name, predict0r and you are telling things according to your opinion and prediction.

It's okay if his saying it, that's his opinion and his entitled for that.

Good luck watching the market, we may feel bad during the downs but you'll also understand how it feels when all things you have said go well oppositely to what you are saying.

How could you begin to quantify its "utility" into a dollar amount? Things like "sound money" and "censorship resistance" don't equate to numbers.

More than that, what makes you think price could ever reach this baseline "true" value? This market has, since inception, been trying to speculatively value Bitcoin's future utility, not its present utility.

You guys are all the same - except for the real dummies here who just get whipsawed by your blather.  Yeah... who are we kidding?

In response to any specific challenge you either make grand statements about civilization, global politics, and economics in general, or drop back to charting minutiae because, well, charts drive the market.  Or a half dozen other obfuscatory arguments.

Anunymint is most regrettable, though most risible, because his acidic ranting is so inflammatory.  Those with no knowledge of history or any perspective, and perhaps with few personal prospects, will be attracted and possibly radicalized.  Hitler worked the same way.  Anunymint (A) posits destruction of conventional finance (!) but... but (B) in such a way that his blockchain accounts are still valued (!) which requires believing that (C) it's all a world government conspiracy, ignoring the fact that (D) our governments couldn't secretly conspire on a surprise party at McDonalds and (E) that the 300 million desperate folks around him won't come for his assets while (F) farmers will still give him bread for BTC.  I could go on, but the man is a fool.  Or a complete hypocrite and just writes crap like that as hysteria clickbait for his blog.

Extasie and others resort to exaggeration, distortion, and slogan.  How can I know the future utility of bitcoin?  How can such an asset be worthless?  How can we value censorship resistance (yeah, how can we - beg the question much)?  On and on.

What I said and showed was clear.  The 2017 bulge in bitcoin value was manufactured.  So it will tend to sink back to its former value.  Too little has changed in the macro picture to drive anything else.  What about that don't you understand?  I gave you numbers:  $400-$600 in 18 months.  So then you switch from generalities to argue about the exact value...  It doesn't matter - your account will drop by 90%!  Or 85%.  Or 95%.  It's all terrible.

https://imgur.com/a/QTYOQyL (https://imgur.com/a/QTYOQyL)

Then, because I'm in mutual funds - an utterly different vehicle - I have to somehow compare aspects of those with aspects of bitcoin, as if that's relevant to the main point.

I never said bitcoin won't someday be very valuable!  Maybe it will; nobody knows.  I never said it doesn't have profound economic and perhaps social significance.  I'm in awe of blockchain technology and hope it will help the world.  But between now and the end of 2019, the MOST LIKELY (read that phrase and THINK ABOUT IT - those that have the brainpower) event for BTC is a coastdown to near its pre-Q3 2017 level.  If you're simply betting, you never go against "most likely".

Clelland wants to bet.  I won't really, but would in theory be glad to put down $10K if I could get 20:1 odds on the BTC 30-day MA reaching $600 in 18 months + 30 days.  Or 10:1 odds on $800.  Or something similar.  So big forum guys with all the answers (and I mean literally), who would take that bet?  Remember that by the time you have to pay off (in dollars), your bitcoin will be worth one-tenth of what it is today.

You'll find me on the sidelines, as stated.  I wouldn't put a nickel into bitcoin right now.

so mtgox was manufactured but it still went to 20k after that. the first rise above $100 was also manufactured by a few people. In general price is right and theres no such thing as the price shouldnt have gone there.

What do you think will happen when all that smart money sold at 20k now want back in? fundamentals did not change to suggest they go back to the old slow legacy rate targetted toilet paper.

You are playing with fire if your RR does not factor in target market to figure out price targets. Trade expectancy is hard with Bitcoin and crypto in general. This is why it is an enigma.

In my own opinion, no matter how the market drop its prices, cryptocurrnecy will still be able to recover because there are still a lot of people who are interested on investing.

Cryptocurrency and blockchain technology are here to stay and thats the future, there are many coins created and will be created but the ones which are of  value to the people ,the ones which serve some particular purpose are used and will continue  to be used and thats BITCOIN.

When prices start to look down sharply, there will be panic selling action that trigger a deeper price correction again. Nevertheless, the digital money that survives will gain an unprecedented growth

18months ?  I ve heard that time frame...
 Wait, it was the LN time to be live,...hehe

Yes, you could be right, BTC down, because it is blamed not to work and bribled down.

But it will be taken over by Bitcoin Cash by that time. Here all can scale and adoption is back.

Yes it's logical thinking, but not necessarily that will happen to bitcoin, because bitcoin prices are always changing every time depending on market movements. The market is currently down and that does not mean the market will go down and bitcoin will decline in the future. I further believe that bitcoin may increase in the future, because bitcoin is reliable.

I totally disagree with this statement.At present the market value is down that doesn't mean that BTC's future is down.We should not forget that we are the one who decides the future of bitcoin. More will be the investors more will be the value of BTC.Bitcoin is being declared as legal in many countries and many are giving PR in exchange of bitcoin so how we can say that future of bitcoin is down.Bitcoin has a bright future and also has a good future scope.

Bitcoins future is not down because there are a lot of people today who are earning a huge amount of profit in cryptocurrency and that is the reason why bitcoins is becoming even more popular each day and the future of bitcoins will not going down.

That's what most of the long term bears don't get, and why they keep getting blindsided by the next bubble. This market is hyper-sensitive to declining supply on exchanges, and future demand is near-impossible to predict.

If a bubble was "manufactured" by exploiting low liquidity, it doesn't logically follow at all that price will therefore return to prior price levels. There is zero logic to that assumption. I have no idea why Tether conspiracy theorists keep repeating it.

The Willy Bot was active at sub-$1K prices--shouldn't we be back at three digits now? Those who use manipulation conspiracy theories as the basis for long term bearish predictions simply don't understand how to account for demand in the market. They make no attempt to.

but thats only 10 pct of the picture the main point is the reason why btc exists. Large funds barely begun buying. When more people realize that its more ideal compared to alternatives it wont matter. As more and more people expect this to happen it happens faster and faster until the point of no return when everything related to money becomes tokenized.

it seems that currently bitcoin is not too visible to everyone still there are some people who do not know about how to play bitcoin and how to benefit from bitcoin, just imagine if everyone already understood and want to buy bitcoin definitely bitcoin price will be very expensive.

Maybe the market price today is dumping in a huge amount but we can still believe that it can grow even more in the future due to people who keep on investing in the market that will make the price to pump up again.

I guess it would be better to simply look ahead and beyond this current bear market. Feelingn frustrated will only lead you to panic. In the first place, when you've decided to deal in bitcoin, this kind of things should've been expected. It may be down today but it's not going to be always like that.

Predicting the future from best practice service for clients.

https://txstreet.com/

 :D

Hoping that you people are buying at the time when prices are low which can help you to make money and get the btc or other coins at least possible price. Once the price starts to pump in you would be the best making returns on your investment.

In my own opinion, the future of bitcoins is not down because there are a lot of people today who are invest on different cryptocurrency such as ICO and the market prices has a certain date which is pumping so keep on holding your coins.

I do not think the way you think, even though the market is falling now but bitcoin can still increase. I think in september the bitcoin price will get better and so will increase gradually.

I think not, the future of bitcoin will not fall, I think your assumption is too negative because maybe you are too disappointed with the current bitcoin price.

If more coins were created, then I think the future of Bitcoin would be to downward and then disappear. Investors do not focus invest in Bitcoin as they did before, they dividing their assets to invest in new altcoins.

The market right now is currently dumping the cryptocurrency but it does not mean that the market price will just continue to dump, it will grow again soon so keep on waiting to avoid losing your coins.

Why do you think that mate. The market is still on a great and strong position, only that there is too much fud and that is what is causing the drop on almost all the markets now

Even the current price of bitcoin is down I don't think the future would be the same. Remember, ever since the price has it's fluctuations price up and down. I can see still that in bitcoin good future awaits and more adaptions can happen.

I've never think that bitcoin will fall and the entire crypto world. The current bitcoin price shows stability and it is till good enough to have that price until year end.
It is not important to go higher if it only causes losses for some investors when it suddenly drop that of staying at the current price range.

I think the fall of bitcoin at this time can not be a reason for falling bitcoin in the future. All depends on the market, and more likely the market will change and in the future bitcoin will be able to increase high.

I agree with you because bitcoin will always go down and up in every time and if bitcoin price is down too deep then maybe there is any bad news that comes out so it makes people become panic. or the whales selling their bitcoin in a big amount so it makes the price to get down too deep. everything can happen in the crypto and only people which are ready for the worst thing that can survive and they can buy another amount of bitcoin so they can wait for a while and sell at the higher price.

I don’t believe in predictions because the future is hidden and almost all predictions become false. The facts are against them. I just believe in reality. If we look at the market today it is green and the price is on the move. If this move continues for some time the price will be more than $10000 in the near future. I can say that bitcoin is not doing but growing.

Don't panic, bitcoin will not forever fall low, bitcoin still has a chance to increase. Bitcoin is not a weak coin that falls and has no value, but bitcoin is a potential coin and will rise higher. Believe it or not on bitcoin is up to you, and for me still believe bitcoin will increase in the future.

I for sure don't look at it that way. There's long term value in Bitcoin just from the adoption perspective.

Among the factors driving Bitcoin prices up, there is an element of recognition from a stronger economy. Hence, the opposite is true, ie, the price of Bitcoin falls if a stronger economy oppose and prohibit its use.

The adoption rate would be very high and thus in coming time you will see that btc price will rise due to increase in demand. Also many altcoin would proper as btc price would be costly and not every could buy it so this will give rise to many new altcoin.

I'm not sure it's because I think people who use bitcoin will be more and more and that will be the reason that prices will increase and make all its profit. support factors that will answer the future of bitcoin. if bitcoin is not used and nobody invests then bitcoin will run out.

Going against the flow is something that will make you lose out as country, which they more and more start to understand and for that reason try to set up a matching regulatory framework. Not every country does the same as China, where we also have to look at one major fact, which is that nearly everything China ends up banning, grows out to become a leading factor in the world. Google, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc. They all have done exceptionally well and so will Bitcoin. Every country will realize that 'respectfully' regulating Bitcoin has way more effect than banning it in whatever form. Banning something that can't be banned is stupid....

Absolutely right, bitcoin future is very bright and it will be the mainstream in the future. It will take over the market. Thousands of people have made and are making huge profits from bitcoin. It is bubble, it will crash, it will disappear from the market and so and so but the fact is that bitcoin will stay forever and will the regular currency for the entire world.

I disagree as we are discussing on the thread about the down future of Bitcoin which is totally irrelevant because if the Bitcoin had to die or to finish the game then it would happened before and it will not make any progress in situations it is.

The future is well explaining by its average data which is on the increase trend reflecting its success with the passage of time. the current situations are not permanent and we have seen downfalls like this many times in the past so it recovered again and will recover this time.

Manipulation is a big problem for the growth of bitcoin because those who understand market manipulation will never invest their money in bitcoin because they will not earn money and will waste their time and money. It is better not to invest in bitcoin. I am optimistic about the future of bitcoin and I will make huge profits due to increase in the price.

I do not believe in your prediction, your prediction is only based on panic. I further believe bitcoin will have a brighter future and could rise higher.

I don’t think so, the future of bitcoin is not downing but against it. Now the world is turning towards digital currency and are putting their money in cryptocurrency, it means that the future of bitcoin is bright and don’t worry about the current situation of the market. Up and down is part of the game and I hope that we will win this game with huge margins.

The price of bitcoin is increasing day by day and this is just false news that the future of bitcoin is down? Have you any information or you manipulate the price? if there is nothing like this then don’t mislead new investors and let them put their money in bitcoin to earn profits in the future. The price is on the way up and the market is now green.

We still didn't about the price of bitcoin in the future. The price of bitcoin is increasing day by day, but now the price is on the way up and the market is now green. And i wish bitcoin going up like legit in the future

Of course and in my opinion, one cannot predict the future because of the uncertainties. The present and the past data can help you to predict the future up to some extent but you cannot rely completely on that.

Besides, since the available Bitcoin is limited and we have only a small portion left, the demand will be very high because rare assets are always expensive and the rise in the value will rather happen to continue so in my opinion, the future will not be down and to meet the rising demand, there might be some increase in the number of Bitcoin available as well.

We all want a better and high market value but do not act to contribute to the market in its rise which is our biggest failure and not of the Bitcoin. Now if big whales sold out the Bitcoin which is the reason for downfall and it is true that selling with a lot of coins decrease the value. Solution of the market to go in upward direction is to invest more and more in this market so as to stand in a high market.

umm thats how a market works. whales dont ever cash out.. think what happens when they feel they may miss out.. up we go

I hope that we don't have to panic to know this because this is the only prediction that could be wrong. bitcoin in future will always up and down and will always change in anytime so you need to control your emotion to not become panic. and if you think that you cannot control your emotion then maybe you need to break for a while to get a rest.

I'm more sure bitcoin will have a bright future and bitcoin values will be better. Bitcoin is the most popular and can grow taller, I'm sure it will happen.

Future of the Bitcoin is looking down in the next days if we go like the way we are going, our biggest fault is to sell in this low market. We all should not look for selling at this stage because it will contribute to increase the price if we do not sell in this way the future is bright.

The result is in your front as the market is moving in circular path with no perfect improvement so this will change if we stop selling in this low market.

Everybody is entitled with their own opinion. I think the manipulation via tether isjust an opinion and not the truth. No legitimate source that it is real. 2017 was the historic moment for bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. And it is not just a history because it will keep happening and wven be more than that. Bitcoin and crypto now is very useful and surely will be able change the way of payment and online transactions.

All these types of questions are baseless because the only reason is that we saw a big fall in the price and now some people say that the future of bitcoin is dark and investing in it is just a waste of time and money. Don’t be panic and be patient. The price will grow again because price depends upon demand and demand will inverse with the passage of time.

These negative perceptions are now on its fall and will end soon because the Bitcoin has proven once again and changed the perceptions of people into positive.

The current price movement today has changes many minds once again as we know that price was stable for some days around 6.3k dollar price but today it increased regularly up to 7.3k dollar which is indicating a better future if it continues to maintain its position.

That is not the only reason that will keep Bitcoin alive but there are much more in the list and prominent among them is the fact that Bitcoin has been accepted and recognized by almost all the companies across Europe and USA and this is something thing that has added to the value of Bitcoin as well.

It is highly accepted as a mode of payment and has actually reduced the demand for cash as well as a result of which the printing of money will decrease and inflation can be controlled. There are so many reasons that people in future will prefer Bitcoin over fiat and so the future will be great for Bitcoin.

I hope that people can be patient for a while and wait for the price to rise more than they can sell the bitcoin. but I think some of the people are ready to sell their bitcoin right now because they see that this is their chance to make a profit again. I think bitcoin price will always up and down no matter today or in the future because of the price still volatile.