Bitcoin Forum

Requesting comments on the following:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Casascius_Bitcoin_POS_system

Pretty detailed!  Does this exist or are you setting specifications?

Sounds great.  If "Somebody, Inc" can be configurable in the device so its possible to set up your own "Back end/Processing" service.  And that communication is done via standard JSON rpc or something similar to make it easy. 

You'd probably sell a whole bunch :)

This is something I'd like to coordinate being put together as an open-source project.

The Vx510 and Vx570 are programmed in C, using a proprietary unix-like OS.  The same codebase could be easily adapted to other hardware.

EDIT: added this photo. OK, the software in its fully working form isn't real, but this photo IS real (including the real deal on the screen - it is just the beginning - I'll post the code to github)

https://en.bitcoin.it/w/images/en/thumb/0/01/VeriFone_Vx570.jpg/314px-VeriFone_Vx570.jpg

I like your ideas on the qr printout and ways of operation. 

This does seem like a large project.

I am interested in joining in the fun.

How about a payment that just isn't confirming.  For example, let's say no fee was paid and no miners have included it?

Too complex for most cashiers. I would have 2-3 modes.
1. A QR self-service smartphone type.
2. Pre-loaded bitbills-type cards that have the entire balance transfered and then change returned to the consumer's public address on their ID.
3. Possibly the ability to return change to a semi-secure paper bitbill that is printed (I don't trust magnetic strips) and a backup sent to an escrow that will expire if spent or not claimed within a reasonable time.

[Edit] After seeing the photo, I see what you are talking about. I would buy these and use them just to sell bitcoin stored value cards.

Then it remains unconfirmed until it confirms, just like on the Bitcoin client.  If not enough of a fee was paid to even get it relayed, it wouldn't have heard about the transaction.  Keep in mind that this is a spec - my imagination for how such a product should work in the end - not how it actually does.

Would it be able to handle credit/debit cards as well?  Or would the device have to be bitcoin only?

Depends on how it gets written and how nicely it plays with the VeriFone multi-application coordinator.  It's definitely possible in theory - but there is also another practical hurdle.  It only runs signed code, and if you get a terminal from a bank, the terminal may only run code signed by the bank, if they have enabled this feature.  On the contrary, if you have an "unlocked" terminal (like I have, and like most terminals actually are), the code still has to be signed, but with a key they give away freely in their SDK.

The VX570's are about $250 refurbed on ebay.  While it would be ideal to have the same machine do standard credit cards, it would probably not be able to do them as Casacius says above.  Having a second machine would not be too hard for most stores if it saved them a few percent on some sales. 

The Vx510s are cheaper and are exactly the same but without a USB port.  (other minor cosmetic differences too, but same capabilities).

EDIT: The Vx570s, having a USB port, can also take their programming from a USB flash drive.  This makes tinkering a whole lot easier if you don't have the SDK and all the gear (these are normally flashed via serial or via dialup modem).  If you pick up a Vx570, I can compile and sign a binary, send it to you, and you can just flash your own unit through the USB port.  Of course, I do own a dialup server that also incorporates the dialup flashing, so assuming this ever takes off, I will have the means to help you flash your units you buy on eBay or whatever.

By the way, all of these terminals can be acquired either new, or well-refurbished, in the $200 to $300 price range.  Refurbished terminals often look very good, because they get acquired when merchants go out of business or upgrade, and the refurbishers often completely replace the exterior parts (which will make them appear new - it depends on the refurbisher).  Buy them only from people who are selling the terminal straight-out, not from somebody who also sets up merchant accounts.

Be aware that Ethernet is an option on these models (the standard comm is dialup), so if you ever have the urge to buy one of these, make sure you get the model with Ethernet (also known as dual comm or abbreviated DC).

Here is the code for what I have so far (which is essentially a hello world) and what went into the image above... also meant as an introduction to the programming environment used on these.

https://github.com/casascius/vfbitcoin

*Applaud!!!*
Nice Work

I was able to incorporate qrencode into the source, and got it to print the QR codes on the printer, as well as show one on the screen.  This is the first time I have ever made a VeriFone POS machine render a QR code, but it seems to have worked pretty well.

I pushed the relevant code to github.

https://en.bitcoin.it/w/images/en/thumb/2/28/Vx570_QR_code.jpg/517px-Vx570_QR_code.jpg

Nice work.

What/who do you need to trust,
* As a merchant?
* As a customer?
* Man in the middle attacks?

lovely!!!
now that you're done with this, here is your next homework: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Smart_card_wallet

That's really a nice idea, and for what I could read very well designed.
I'm thinking on proposing that to some shops near where I live (even if there are very few bitcoin user here): it could be a "reverse promotion" of bitcoins, instead of being the customers to ask to the shop owners to implement bitcoin, it could be the shop holder to propose to customers to use them.

I could obtain a vx570 in about a month and help do testing.   Are there any other models that run similar code?

I'm searchin one to make some test too here in Italy: which models are compatible with your code?

Very cool!

I doubt most merchants would want a second machine just for Bitcoin. Why spend $250 for another machine when you could just have Bitcoin capability on your cell phone for free?

It needs to be integrated or it will not be used. I understand the difficulties in doing so. Someone should be able to come up with something.

Smartphone requires that both parts have a smartphone with the bitcoin software, and is not appliable if you've a worker in the shop.
That kind of POS can be used even by a non tech (and I mean a non tech customer): you give him a card, put some $$$ on it (paying in cash) and then use like a normal credit card.

Due to the strict device signing used by credit card companies I really doubt this could happen.  They don't want to help bitcoin along at all. 

If you can use a smartphone POS solution that is great, and I think many merchants will go that route.  But the more choices the better, and a machine like this one would pay for itself in one year with $400 a month in bitcoin transactions instead of credit card.  Clearly someone who does little volume won't use this but an established store with real volume would find it of value.  It could be more locked down then a smartphone application.

 

I suppose your doubt would ring true for many merchants.  And for many others, the machine would make sense.  A lot of businesses are hurting and don't have $250 to spare.  To others, $250 is negligible.

If you're the boss, you don't want your employees being able to anonymously pocket your cryptocurrency.  A machine like this allows you to delegate receiving bitcoins to your employees - in a drop-dead simple way - so that you don't have to yourself.  Once they've been collected by the machine, only you have access to them, not your employees.

The machine prints paper receipts, which are useful for implementing all sorts of controls, none of this is possible with a smartphone.  And the dedicated machine is always on and ready to go.  If a customer is waiting for a payment to go through, the employee can do something else or work on the next customer while waiting for the machine to beep, rather than fidgeting with the refresh button on the smartphone.

Bottom line - there IS a demand for this.  Many businesses want to accept bitcoin, but can't get past "where do I start".  This machine would be an answer: "buy this and plug it in."

And adding to the POS a rechargable credit card bitcoin wallet let even non tech savy customer to use them even if they don't have a PC at home

I just downloaded some random pdf book full of blurbage from Verifone Devnet. Here's what I read there:
Is it 3, 4 or 6? And how much of that is left for the application to use?

In light of the above the whole project looks science-fiction-ey to me.

With respect to a VeriFone Vx terminal, if the device boots up and has the words "DEFAULT CERTIFICATE" on the boot splash screen, it's not locked down and will run binaries signed by the "default certificate" provided in the SDK, assuming the default password to reach the download menu hasn't been changed (it usually is left at the default).

Memory capacity is an option.  The memory goes a long way on these terminals.  I have never run out.  Factors:
* the CPU can execute code directly out of its flash memory filesystem, rather than copying it into RAM, which is actually quite unusual but also saves lots of memory as the code won't occupy any of it
* many of the libs and SDK functions are implemented in the device's firmware, the part you link into your binary merely makes a syscall to get at it
* the device regularly uses thumb (compact ARM encoding) which makes the binaries even smaller

Even my biggest VeriFone project took no more than a few hundred kilobytes, most of that being statically linked support for SSL.  Obviously the machine isn't going to be able to hold the blockchain.  But as the client part of a client/server app, the memory capacity is not an issue.

good work!!

I want to belive you and yet my experience tells me that there's something fishy here.

Run-from-flash on a cache-less ARM is definitely possible but also definitely very slow. It may be OK for driving a modem, but most likely it will not be OK for any real crypto application.

As far as I know, the SSL and TCP/IP implementations sold by Verifone (licensed from Windriver?) are seriously crippled by implementing only minimal subsets of the full functionality, suitable to run only on LANs or WLANs with low packet loss.

If the whole project get from the start rearchitectured to dumb-wimpy-client/smart-ruddy-server that would increase the chances of achieving something that is both deliverable and maintainable in case of the future need for modifications.

Admittently I don't have an actual experience with Verifone's hardware, but we had to deal with something very similar. In the end the acceptable and secure solution required about 5-15 seconds wait to respond to the keypresses. And  this was after immense time spent optimizing the C code with hand-crafted assembly.

We're talking a machine designed to exchange transactions that weigh in at between 0.5 and 2 kilobytes.  They do that just fine.


That might be true, but they tend to work fine in practice.  Most of the messages exchanged by these devices fit within a single Ethernet frame.  They are designed to talk to one host (e.g. Visa/Mastercard) over the internet and they clearly do that just fine.  They don't need a gamut of protocols because they don't need to talk to lots of hosts with a wide array of different capabilities like, say, web browsers do.

I believe the WiFi units they sell (Vx610 with a pluggable module) is based on having a third-party radio with its own IP stack on the radio itself, and it is just attached via a serial-like connection.

In short, they do fine.

I think they also have Linux-based products as well.  I've never developed for them.

You might be aware my experience with these is that I sell payroll timeclock services on them.  We actually have another box with similar characteristics that runs Linux (magstripe reader, 128x64 mono display), and we sell a ton of them as timeclocks.  My timeclock app runs on both VeriFone and these Linux boxes, it's just a different build target.  So if I had an itch for a little more juice, it's just a matter of recompiling for the other hardware.  We sell more Linux timeclocks not because they're Linux, but because they look more like timeclocks and are easier to hang on the wall.  On the other hand, VeriFone boxes would make better Bitcoin POS machines because they have a built-in printer, that's sort of important.

I'm interested in making the Linux timeclock box available to others, because anyone can develop for them.  And if someone can contribute to the Bitcoin codebase that runs on the Linux timeclock, it should have no problem compiling for the bankcard machines as well.


I'm hoping to just give away the code for any progress I make on this.  I believe this is what it'll take for average businesses to care about Bitcoin.


I don't like unresponsive UIs and wouldn't use this platform if that were the expected experience.  My timeclock app is very responsive and I would expect that any sort of bitcoin app would be the same.

If you are launching, I am extremely willing to be a volunteer and help in the distributions in the countries I go to.

Questions on the POS protocol outlined on your wiki page.

I imagine there would be some sort of login or authorization step so that the backend knows that it is communicating with an authorized client?

I see the client connects every 15-60 seconds, would a standard web server with HTTPS/SSL be able to communicate with the client? or is the protocol complex enough to require a custom server software to be written?

Wouldn't it just need to do json-rpc calls to bitcoind running somewhere on a LAN (or alternately I suppose that could be an external trusted service)?

This sounds interesting and I'm just touching in here to stay aware of progress.

Wow, this is coming along.  Thank you casascius. This is a wonderful contribution.

Holy shit, how does this not have more attention.  Just seen this on /r/Bitcoin, amazing.

"pay their dues"
Visa and Master Charge fees, money conversion fees, bank fees, money service fees, etc. Merchants are constantly losing profitability and can barely afford to take credit cards anymore. This device is not supposed to be a new idea, it's just a familiar device for a bitcoin based banking system that has very low fees.

Credit and gift cards are not free. Transaction fees are paid ultimately by the consumer. Not so much with bitcoin. It will be awhile before anyone is ready to use bitcoins via POS, but these open source projects show what can be done with bitcoin.

We have to re-invent the wheel because the current payment systems/companies are not going to cooperate with bitcoin to integrate a free payment system into their infrastructure.

A $200 device that the merchant can stick under the counter, its tough, checkout-chick friendly, simple to power up, and best of all, completely free to use and accept payments with forever. You can even get the backend to convert the btc straight back to whatever currency tickles your fancy.

Personally i'd prefer a mini-pc under the counter with a proper LCD screen that can display the QR code, and show nice graphics etc.. but this POS device will definately be a winner for non techie mom & pop stores to accept bitcoin.

Cheap, Simple, Familiar = Win

You tell Walmart that a thousand of their smaller competitors are accepting bitcoin at the POS and they might actually think about accepting it themselves.

You gotta start somewhere.

Some business owners have a Bitcoin agenda and would be happy to get this going.  They just don't have an easy way to start.  Sure, it's not going to be Target or Wal-Mart, but think Memorydealers.com and Meze Grill.

It's not so simple in practice.  You can get those credit card boxes for $200.  Sure perhaps you can unlock the box but will the card processing software play well with the extra app?  It's not like the terminal has "alt-tab", the extra app only plays well if it's loaded and endorsed by the issuing bank and integrated into what's already there.  Without that, much easier to just get a separate box.

I write a time and attendance (payroll) app for VeriFone.  Generally, the banks WANT my payroll app on their credit card box.  That's a useful reference point.  It's highly unlikely they'd want bitcoin on it.  They want the payroll app because there's a chance they can scoop up extra revenue via payroll.  They won't add bitcoin just for the karma.

Since I develop software for POS machines, I'm probably qualified to speak on the matter

POS machines are computers with tight security requirements (PCI-DSS). They are not web browsers that simply shovel data from the server to the screen. Further, they only run signed binaries. A gift card app is a signed binary.  No, they would not send coins themselves (nowhere near enough storage available for a block chain), a server would do it.

You are welcome to tone down the attitude, your insights will be welcomed more.

Both of you seem to know something about this so I have a simple logistical question.  Right now if I want to pay someone I hand them my credit card and they swipe it.  I assume the box then sends this information on to the server and then the transaction is handled.  However if I want to pay with Bitcoins at some store (restaurant, retail, whatever) then what do I "hand them".  In other words what takes the place of the credit card on an unmodified box.

From what I see there needs to be some modification to the box so it can print out a QR or something so that the transaction can be started.  I can see how a modified box could print out a QR and total and this could be scanned by my phone and then I could send the Bitcoins over the network - or something like that.

I admit I know next to nothing here.  I only use credit cards as a consumer and at one point had a small retail shop where we accepted them so please no attitude or flames.

Just would like to see how an unmodified box would be used.  Are you thinking that we would encode Bitcoin related key information on the strip of a credit card that could then be read into the system?

What information would be on the card.  Surely not the private key and encoding the public key does no good as I am trying to make a payment.

Thanks!

dear matthew,
Respecting your  1188 posts (in which i guess had the same attitude)...
Topic starter casascius invested time, his know how and produced a solution for a problem that exists.
You on the other hand with your dick-attitute managed to create problems than solutions. You are far away from constructive criticism...
There is a saying that if you are not part of the solution , you are part of the problem.
Think for a moment  where are you putting your self.
In the end i have a question.
can you do it better?
a)do it.
b)you can't. just applaud and stfu.
the only thing that came out of your crap posts was that casascius should integrate bitcoin functions to the existing system.
Casascius TRIED to explain to you that these are signed.
As you know bussiness world is not full of tech savvy persons and this is a fine start.
This might not be the final solution (for a number of reasons) BUT its a proof of concept that can be done and its pretty damn good.

Bitcoin has unusual needs, like the ability to notify the merchant about incoming payments from the network. Eg someone goes to Meze Grill and sends BTC with smartphone. I propose the terminal spontaneously alert the merchant about that incoming payment once heard on the network. Existing bank card infrastructure has no facility for "push notifications" into a credit card machine that can be piggy backed to meet the need. Credit card infrastructure has no facility to generate a Bitcoin address and spit it out so customer knows whom to pay. Bottom line the only clean way to solve the problem is with a specialized app.

If there is a better way to do it based on whatever infrastructure they have in Korea well I am all ears. But the burden of proof for its usefulness and for making it happen is yours of course, not mine or anyone else's.

For something that is 'much simpler' it sure seems more complicated to understand what you're getting at and how it would work.
So you're proposing a system for paying with bitcoins (indirectly) *if you have an account with a specific provider* such as for example mtgox ?   
What does the merchant have to do to support each new popular bitcoin wallet provider which springs up? 
What costs are there in your solution for the merchant and for the wallet provider?

I still don't get where the account-balance checking/authorisation logic would reside.
The 'local middle-man processing service' sets it up to talk to mtgox APIs etc?
Does this mean your solution is completely independent of the banks - or because the POS device already talks to the banks, it has to go through their systems?

What exactly does the customer give to the merchant, a card with the provider-specific account code plus what?..  name, expiry, security code just like a cc?

Pragmatic as it may be to get some merchants on board who are shy of the additional hardware - it feels to me like the casascius POS would be the much nicer long term solution (for the provider/exchange-agnostic bitcoiner anyway)

This is why Casascius is doing the right thing. Starting small with a new idea isn't a bad thing.  I like your system, but it looks too expensive for a business that is looking to save every satoshi. Also, your payment processors may end up charging higher fees for bitcoin transactions than Citicorp. As far as distracting from other efforts, I'm not sure who you are referring to. Bitcoin is not nothing. Bitcoin will still be around after the politicians have balkanized or confederated the USA.
This is putting a lot of faith in MtGox to become adopted by mainstream buisnesses. I want to see it happen, but it will meet political resistance from antibitcoiners that have a face (MtGox) to attack. Here's what seems to be missing: Where is this decentralized exchange folks want to develop?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=45751.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7212.msg105791#msg105791

tl;dr We need both your and Casascius' system.

http://ano.lolcathost.org/thumbs//costanzaPopcorn.gif

Matthew, your rudeness and arrogance know no bounds.

The most worthwhile tip I have taken from your contribution to this thread is to make sure I never do business with DialCoin for fear of having to deal with someone like yourself.

Please start your own thread about your own POS system, in there you can abuse your fellow bitcoiners as much as you like, maybe if you call them dicks enough times they might come to their senses and bow down.

Was I the only one reading the spec looking for the part where it would actually scan a casascius coin and/or scan the private key of one to redeem it?

Who is "us"?

What exactly are you planning. The reader on the photo looks like a t-money PoS used in public transport and stores used throughout korea. It's based on mayfair classic smartcard, storing balance on the card, afaik (see ccc conference 2010 or 2009, not sure, I think carsten nöhle gave a talk about this, it's "hacked")

So what are your plans?

I agree this would be OT here. Where is the thread/place to talk about this? You can't just run around discrediting other's ideas/work without be open to discuss your own on more deeply than saying: "experts are working on it".


How exactly do you want to convice the operators of the existing system to open up their system so you can plug-in mtgox backend?

+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000

I have yet to hear an idea or him actually doing something talented to help the project.  Slamming Casascius for attempting a valid POS system is not a wasted attempt,  even if it fails he'll learn what he did right and what he did wrong.

The intelligence emanating from mom's basement in South Korea is amazing.  

If you are referring to the marketing site http://www.flexcoin.com .. yes that's wordpress... but CLEARLY you never actually looked at the bank itself,  located at https://bank.flexcoin.com   which is not.

It doesn't matter regardless...  asking you for advice or your opinion is completely worthless as you contribute nothing to the project.

Casascius did a good job trying to build a valid POS system, and your take?  He's an idiot for doing such?   Seriously what kind of jerk are you?  Instead of helping him and positively telling him your advice.. you slam him?


Prove me wrong and for once... just once....  try to help people rather than tear them down...

you don't see me slamming your Dialcoin service...   though if you really wish i can start a thread that would take you 20 years to finish reading.

To be honset I don't quite get the whole discussion here. The perfect POS terminal for BTC exists for quite a while now and we have been using it in our bar / restaurant in Berlin for months now.

We use a tablet with the Schildbach bitcoin client for android, the payment process takes less time than any credit card payment and everybody's happy.

No dedicated hardware, no server somewhere, nothing like that needed. Just a peace of open source software.

But maybe I'm just not getting the point here?

Regards

Joe

Yes, that can works well in some situation but not in all. To use your  POS like your your customers need to have a smartphone to pay, and  the POS is open to transaction in both sense (who use it has to be trusted or can send money to other account easily). A real POS works just like a credit card pos: no need for costumers to use a smartphone and lock in the POS to avoid fund transfer unwilled.

Hey where is your Dialcoin genius?
 

What thread? The link you provided above is a link to _this_ thread.

+Million

Similar tech is used in Hong Kong, they call it "Octopus card" and it's very convenient. Even McDonald's accepts it :)
Also, unlike usual CC POS, most merchants also offer adding funds to the card.

I like such wireless solutions, except one thing: I want there to be a button for disconnecting the card's coil so it can only be accessed when I want to, not just when it stays in my pocket.

May be, but keypad cards are impossible to use with bitcoins at this moment, contrary to cheap mifare cards and equipment.

Also sadly wireless card can be used for instant payment only with the help of some online wallet service :(

You didn't get my point.

For example, with smart (encrypting, non-wireless) cards a solution for online wallet payments will cost less than $1000 including the SDK, a couple of readers and some cards. With this one can start developing and produce a complete turnkey POS.

Now, how much $$ you need to start and set up a system with that keypad card ?

Congratulations for making it into the news :)
Looks like they think it's a new "official" firmware.

http://moneynews.ru/News/15648/

Matthew N. Wright is a classic example of a geek with high level technical knowledge but non-existent social skills. The approach he uses will always cause conflict. I have a lot of experience of this from a social perspective. Respectful communication is the key to working together in any useful way, take that away and it doesn't matter one bit if his points are actually valid or not. People will not listen.

But I have to say that to me Matthew's counter to this system, if I understand it correctly, is actually worse in some ways than what Casascius is proposing. One of the main reasons that Bitcoin was created in the first place and why majority of Bitcoin users use it today is that it's a decentralized system. What Matthew is proposing requires an exchange/e-wallet to handle the transactions, which I think is totally unacceptable.

He talks about reinventing the wheel, which is funny because with Mt. Gox backing all the POS transactions we end up with a very similar setup compared to other payment methods, which include massive centralization. If this is the approach to bring Bitcoin to the mainstream, we will eventually have nothing to use for marketing that'll actually differentiate it from competing payment methods.

Even a Bit-Pay type POS payment system can be done without it requiring anything else than a functioning Internet connection and the only thing one has to rely on is the Bitcoin network. The traffic between the merchants POS system and the "Bit-Pay" servers can happen in scheduled batches, like once every hour. Bit-Pay takes the currency risk of one hour at most in that case. Unless the Bit-Pay servers are down, in which case the POS system would try again until it works. That would increase Bit-Pay's currency risk but it's their problem so it's ok.

Now correct me if I'm wrong with this. I'm trying to understand how deliberately creating a more centralized system will somehow help Bitcoin.

How did you determine that these technologies are archaic, or that this project constitutes "hacking" the device as you have called it earlier?  Seems to me I have seen a dozen banner ads offering credit card processing showing the Vx570 terminal just in the last couple days.  I also saw the Vx570 terminal on the desktop when I picked up tacos for lunch.  I got an ad for a company running a $209 special on the Vx570 today, refurbished.  They obviously don't compare to, say, the graphical capabilities of an XBOX 360, but they do a pretty good job of what they were made for.

You say the question really comes down to security... when the Vx570 offers an available customer smartcard reader (along with 3 hidden smartcard slots where per-merchant encryption keys can be installed) as well as physically guarded tamper-proof memory (open the case and the encryption keys vanish)... what alternative do you have in mind that does a better, more secure job, at a better price?

What are you talking about?  Seeing as how I'm in the business, I have probably bought more plastic cards in my lifetime than minutes you have been alive, so I probably understand, and probably don't agree with you.  If you're going to respond, why not just answer the question?

Ultimately the consumer foots the bill.  As a seasoned businessman, I'm sure you understand that.

The merchant buys the terminal and also gets charged fees by the backend, that's how the developers get paid.  Sort of how Visa and Mastercard already do this.  The merchant charges for that convenience in the price of their products as a cost of doing business - as they do now for Visa and Mastercard - only it costs a lot less over the long run.  And when they sell bitcoins with their terminal, it's a profit opportunity to them, just like when they sell money orders or gift cards or lottery tickets.

A plastic card made in bulk easily costs less than a dime, cheap enough to be an inconsequential freebie, like the napkins available with every hot dog.


I'm not sure there's a political issue in the first place.  This thread is titled "Casascius Bitcoin POS system", the only person complaining that it's a waste of my time (as though I'm accountable to someone) is you.  I gather that most of us are wondering WTF is wrong with you.  You're worried about letting your guard down for a little spittle, you seem the only one unaware that you're already soaked chin deep in sewage of your own making.  Stop being such an asshole.  You're a smart kid in many respects, but clearly don't understand that you have to choose between the liberty of being a complete douche, or having your opinion respected, you cannot have both.  Clearly a seasoned businessman as yourself understands how this concept applies in person.  It's not too late to change, of course.

@casascius I have a question for you. Would I, as the customer, have to upload bitcoins to a wallet located on my smartphone to use your system?

Nope, the bitcoins wouldn't have to be in the smartphone.  For example you could just be initiating a withdrawal from MtGox or some other website.  The system would see the incoming transaction regardless of where the coins came from.

You just lease it for $10 a month. Everyone would be happy.

Casascius, just wondering on the status of this project?  I am very excited by the idea but I can see the github code hasn't been updated for a couple of weeks.

Will you be continuing development or are you looking for others to run with this?  I think if we have even the most simplest of functionality, display QR code and notify when payment received, then we can start carrying these devices into shops and say "hey wanna save some money, let me plug this in and show you how".

I cant really assist with C programming, but potentially can help out with the backend server / communications.

Would a bounty for this project encourage development? To get the ball rolling, I can pledge 10btc for a working end-to-end solution :)

Mathew,  I want to let you know I really appreciate the difference in tone between your first post to this thread (#40) and your most recent post (#94).  I think you have a lot to contribute and look forward to hearing more from you here and in other threads.

I could see this going somewhere, as I made this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54057.msg644784#msg644784 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54057.msg644784#msg644784).

The problem with RFID tags you can't just say, no you can't read my card now. It can always be read unless you like sticking a sheet of metal in pocket or wallet.

I'm not sure if this is still going, but I'd be willing to help with this, not rage and be a dick like someone in this thread.

How's this going?

I'm guessing that your working on the sweep private key function. I'm starting to like this cash card idea given that we may soon see a global financial reset. We'll need a new system that's ready to go.

A new system? I think we will also need new money (sound money, please).

Interested in buying one of these.  Is there any updates?  Is there a website that is official for this product?

I would recommend coinkite over this tbh. Also, necro post much..

Yeah, just checked in to coinkite.  Wonderful idea!  Great execution.  I watched the videos on the website, and it is awesome!

yes, coinkite (https://coinkite.com/rs/n83af7dv) has Bitcoin terminals (Litecoin and Darkcoin also accepted) and great service as well.

Exactly what I have been looking for, as I prefer Litecoin.  Thx !

Hi Casascius,

I have some questions about this project. For some reason I can't send you a PM, apparently after 4 years I'm still a "Newbie".
Can you send me a PM.


Regards,

Bruru