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OUCH! More Bad Bitcoin News...

Bitcoin Crumbles To 3-Month Lows On Mt.Gox As CEO Defends Exchange

http://www.talkmarkets.com/content/news/bitcoin-crumbles-to-3-month-lows-on-mtgox-as-ceo-defends-exchange?post=40513

The price is just a number, it is low? Then it is a great moment to buy.

Unless it keeps going lower.  Been a lot of bad press lately.  Arrests in the US, Bitcoin made illegal in Russia, 2 out of 3 exchange halting withdrawals.  I respect you for keeping your cool far better than me.

Once again, why id price on MtGox important to anyone? Arn't they dead?

Nothing goes up in a straight line. Nothing.

Those of us around Bitcoin a while are very familiar with price dips. I view it as a great thing. People get so caught up on the price. Everybody views Bitcoin as some weird stock/investment anomaly. Bitcoin is a cur-ren-cy. Hint: a currency doesn't work if only a few people hold it. The cheaper Bitcoins are the more people can afford to access some significant number of them. Long periods of cheap Bitcoin prices mean more even and widespread distribution.

Quoted for truth!  :)

I was here when it went from 30 to 2. No way a price of 450 scare me, from 30 to 450 is a good news here, not a bad one  :D

That's a good point.  I'm still new to bitcoin.  Any chance the US would ever make it illegal?

3 year month low?

Time to throw in the towel.

Unlikely, at least the US has showed no signs or interested in doing such a thing and instead realize it's creating news jobs and business opportunities.  The US does want to regulate it, so it's yet to be seen if regulations will be so harsh it cripples many of the benefits of bitcoin ever becoming massively adopted or if they will use more common sense regulations that allow bitcoin and the technology around it to flourish.

Read your press Joe (everyone should browse the Press sub-forum):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=464099.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=463906.0

Bonus: a coin validation douche at the same table as a regulator at Bloomberg:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=464037.0


All from today.

No reason to worry about that at this point because all indications are GO. The US wants to take the lead here and is afraid if we don't other countries will step in. For example:

http://www.coindesk.com/california-bill-bitcoin-lawful-money/

Probably a good time to buy some bitcoin imo.  We've seen drops like this in the past on bad news and it's always rebounded for the most part.  It's only been a few days of bad news, lets come back and look about it in a few weeks/months at the earliest.

oh cool it's back to $10 so i can buy 10 BTC to buy a gram of crack cocaine

Prices will probably rise back up a bit once withdrawals are allowed again on bitstamp and gox.

Yeah, somehow I still remember you getting all excited when the price went to $7.

Agree, somebody should write a bitcoin bible and quote it there!

Just realized that putting all the best bitcoin quotes together would be a great idea, maybe in a few years we'll see it printed in a milion copies :D

Back in that times banks were not issuing "warning" statements, Russia and China were silent about bitcoins, Mt. Gox were up and running, people were excited about new thing. This time it is different. They are teaching everyday Joes that bitcoin is only good for sex-dot-com and silk road. FUD. Growing electricity costs and falling exchange rate and growing diff - all this does not make financially feasible to keep mining. I dono.. Just thoughts.

so less people will mine, difficulty will drop and it becomes financially feasible again.

Lovely.

Le sigh. Highs and lows always come and go.

Damn, that didn't rhyme so awesomely...

It's a marketing ploy! The goal is to have bitcoins exchanged at $100 USD each, then rebound, so that at the end of the end year, when it reaches $1,000 USD, we'll be able to honestly look any naysayer in the eye and say, "Oh, yeah! Then explain to me how bitcoins increasing ten fold since the early part of the year doesn't prove that it's viable."

I'm not versed with the Gospel but, if I recall, Jesus told Moses, after he descended from the Ark with his zoo animals on Mt Ararat, to hit something with a stick so that fresh water would flow to quench their thirst. Similarly, our very own Bitcoin Jesus will walk barefooted--from a block away--to Mt Gox's office tootin' a similar stick to bust somebody's blue balls.

Not low enough for me! 100 dollars please :)

It does help people buy into it that were not able to by the such high value of BTC.
In the long run it will keep growing there are just too many of us all invested in it for it not too with more and more business's accepting our BTC for their goods.

It was about $80 not too long ago, but people will forget that. Instead we'll probably see a slew of news stories proclaiming the death of Bitcoin.

This is pretty serious IMO. First, MtGox makes it virtually impossible (or painfully slow) to withdraw cash. Now it's impossible to withdraw your own Bitcoins. What kind of Business/exchange is this?
I have a fortune of 0.64 BTC in my MtGox account and I seriously think I have lost them forever.
Price of BTC is in free fall, not only on Gox, but also on other exchanges (been watching last 2 hours).
Panic selling anyone?

Same.  HODLing because I believe in the tech and future promise.  Not in it for a quick buck... been there and done that.

Same here.
I think in a couple years we will look at this as a small blip in the big picture.
Should be an interesting couple months though going forward from now.

No one has had any good reason to be in Gox for the past 6 months, honestly.

As for panic selling... there is blood in the streets but nothing is broken.  No new threats here.  Time to buy.

No. There is nothing inherently dangerous about bitcoins, so there is no public safety issue to regulating it (like drugs, tobacco, alcohol). As a capitalistic society, if you want to put your money into beanie babies or bitcoins, that is your choice.

Now, they might start regulating it like a financial instrument and make certain transactions reportable. But that is no different from fiat.

I don't think a "significant number" matters, 1 dollar in BTC will always be 1 dollar in BTC, no matter if it represented bu the figure of 0,0000003 BTC or 12BTC.

Mtgox halting withdrawals of both fiat and bitcoins is an extremely bad news but Bitcoin is way stronger than Mtgox and much more than just Mtgox, a correction was due, it is healthy, the sentiment is very low and the trend is negative but if there is not more to the story and if Mtgox recovers, the price may go up again

You could always sell your 0.64goxBTC against real BTC easily if your sentiment is that low on mtgox

Ultimately it matters how many BTC you, as an individual, have relative to everyone else because it determines your purchasing power.

In the early days people were mining and buying thousands of bitcoins very easily. Today that's far out of most people's reach. Yet we're still in the very early adopter phase of this. Bitcoin isn't even close to being considered mainstream. By the time it is buying even a single bitcoin will most likely be out of most people's reach.

Now imagine the very last people to own BTCs, the people now considered poor, people in Rwanda or Argentina for example. If the most they can ever afford is 1 Satoshi (.00000001) then their purchasing power will never amount to significant participation in the Bitcoin economy.

The longer prices are low the better chance for better distribution you'll get. Unfortunately this still won't be enough for the majority of the world's poor, by the time they jump in.

Ok, not to be a dingbat here, but I should probably buy some bitcoin. How do I do it without being totally scammed or wind up with three types of viruses on my system, or whatever; I basically mine my coins, and store them in my own wallets.

C

Coinbase is quite reliable.  I have been using them alot to buy and sell BTC.
Also LocalBitcoins is not bad if you want to in person trades.

Still too expensive. I want some of these bitcoin millionaires to unload their massive stashes of coins and get the price way down and then I'll consider getting in it... I want fully 50% of the coin that is held by the top 2% of the userbase to be sold and distributed down to a broad userbase to promote stability. I'd like to see $100 again and there's no reason we couldn't and it wouldn't take much selling by these top holders to get us there. That 8000BTC order a few days back was peanuts. I want to see multiple sells for 10,000 BTC and want a real shaking out of the weak hands to establish a good base.

Calling this healthy selloff and wanting to convert coin into USD an "attack" is silly. If the exchanges can't provide the fiat the coin needs to drop in price until they can. Patiently waiting for the right price to enter, which is not yet.... I want 10BTC for $1000.

Thanks I'll give it a go. I'd try the local route but I can't believe anyone would be stupid enough to sell.

Another thought: This might finally force down the price of mining equipment on Ebay so I can pick up some coins that way.

C

Depending on the payment methods available in your locality, person-to-person online trades via LocalBitcoins may also be feasible.

Don't do it via PayPal, obviously. :)

It is worthless discussing about the price.

Now who knows when the bitcoin foundation and MtGox can fix the issue and resume withdraw?

If the withdraw is halted every 1 more day, the price will drop endless.

That would be cool.
Seeing people selling a 5.5gh/s Jalapeno for $350 is crazy much less 30gh/s BFL Singles for $1200 or more is sickening.

The localbitcoins service gets pretty good reviews. 

Coinbase has been well worth it even though I am still in the first 30 days so my daily buy limit is low and won't be bigger until mid next week.  They have good prices and usually are quick with transactions.

The thing is though, the whales are the least susceptible to all these "crashes" and FUD. The reason they became whales in  the first place is EXACTLY because they were smart enough to listen to themselves and buy into bitcoin when everyone else professed that it will fail. This is why they won't unload their bitcoins during times like these - they know Bitcoin will pull through just fine.

Meanwhile, the people that DO cause these reductions in price are exactly the people that don't hold a lot of bitcoins because they immediately panic and sell when they hear one of these news stories.

The question basically amounts to asking is it possible a government will do something insanely stupid in the future.  Yes, of course it is.

However, all the indicators seem to be that the move is toward regulation and not prohibition.  I think what is much more likely is that there will, at some point, be some incredibly burdensome and ill considered regulation that harms the market.  Since the feds, remarkably, seem to be behaving more or less rationally, I think this is most likely to come from the states.  For some reason, my crystal ball has some crusading New York State (or possibly California or New Jersey) prosecutor taking some ludicrous position on Bitcoin.  (Of course, the current Florida prosecution could be the thin edge of the wedge.)  Just call it a hunch.

Well, remember that you also always have those who are going to sell off when something happens that looks like it will depress the price with the intent of taking a round of profits and then buying back in at the bottom.  To make money, the speculators have to be right while others are being fools.

A high percentage of comments reinforcing the psychological notion that people will continue to think in terms of "whole" BTC instead of fractional values. e.g. I wish one BTC equals $100. Instead of thinking "Oh, I'll go and buy $100 worth of m/uBTC." I'm guilty of that mindset too, especially when I think back to what I first paid for them. Personally I think we are way overdue to start calling them uBTC or whatever and leave BTC in the past.

It's a good time to buy in my opinion  ;)  The low price is a result of manipulation (ddos attack)

price is going to jump soon after people start to realize the panic was founded..

I think these crashes help spread BTC further.

At least this current battle does not spill blood.

Australia may actually have world first Bitcoin Bank

Good news !!

Its a zero-sum game. Everybody should know that. However, its not a free market and heavily manipulated. Who has the most upper hands right now at Gox? I bet you its Marks mom. ..... you think she would have fiat withdrawal "delays" ?

LOL

True - its the psychological momentum. Suggest to forget Bitcoin and take Satoshi immediately. That means who invests 100 USD will get 23,000,000 Satoshi for it - that'S a lot

:) right :P

but it seems to be a long long day .... :)
and another day with panic and speculations according to price drops :)

In Bitcoin YOU are your own bank! (assuming you don't use a website to store them for you which you shouldn't).

But if you mean traditional fiat banks also supporting Bitcoin accounts then Australia is too late for that title as of a couple of days:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=462161.0

I've seen worse.

:) I wish situation will chill soon... :)

https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20140210.html
"A bug in the bitcoin software makes it possible for someone to use the Bitcoin network to alter transaction details to make it seem like a sending of bitcoins to a bitcoin wallet did not occur."
"We have discussed this solution with the Bitcoin core developers and will allow Bitcoin withdrawals again once it has been approved and standardized."

I knew it... Satoshi Nakamoto works for MtGox... and it's all going downhill from here.

Actually... NOT. Price of BTC is pulling back up on both Coinbase and BTC-e (but continues to drop on MtGox).
If you want to gamble your money, buy on MtGox right now and hope they will ever allow withdrawals again.

This basically sums up the Gox attitude towards custommers. Just look how that prick tries to avoid conversation.  I won't even talk to you for 10 seconds, get out of my way, don't touch me :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob9Ak1t09Ao (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob9Ak1t09Ao)

You may be mostly right when you say the actual big holders are usually not panic selling because those who did panic selling in the previous crashes may not be big holders anymore but there are plenty of large sell of BTC, the traders have been selling for days knowing the price will fall, they will be the first to buy back, especially those who short sell because they will have to buy back

"fix the issue" and "resume withdraw" are two separate questions.

As I understand it, "fix the issue" at the bitcoin level would require enforcing checking a field that is currently ignored. That would eliminate the easiest form of the exploit.

However, it is the user implementation that is really the problem. The simple solution for MtGox is to scan the block chain (look for the block with the from/to addresses and amounts) and if the transaction hash changes, update their system with the new hash. As long as MtGox mixes a random return of coins to its own account into the transaction, multiple withdrawals of the same amount would not be confused.

Regardless, the problem requires the customer to initiate a refund, or not received, complaint. The resolution of that complaint should require the looking up of the transaction from the details, and not the transaction hash. If that were done, then MtGox could resume allowing withdraw.

Note: The deposit system only looks at transaction addresses (do not know the incoming transaction hash), so they know how to do the coding.

The question is: Is this a smoke screen, and MtGox has stolen coins? That could be why the btc values on MtGox has plummeted. Let's assume that MtGox has stolen 20% of the bitcoins, then each bitcoin position on MtGox is only worth 80% of a real bitcoin (when all is settled, each person's position is paid out at 80%).

BTW: Bitstamp has resumed withdrawls. If they can, then MtGox can
http://www.coindesk.com/bitstamp-resume-bitcoin-withdrawals-btc-e-working-solution/

Really, I don't know why, but I am so convinced that Bitcoin, or cryptocurrencies in general are a thing that is here to stay, that I have not the slightest doubt about the whole developement. I'm actually happy that the price drops, so i can buy cheap. I see more and more People being driven out of the market, even Veterans. I'm in Bitcoin since 14th January. But I've never been so sure in my life, that we're all sitting on a development, that is going to explode and change our society. I cant even explain that. I just know that I fucking have to be on board of this ship or I will regret it.

There's always a chance, but I don't see on what grounds they could make it illegal. Banning it wouldn't make it worth any less any way. It'll still hold value to others and people will still use it.

When you consider that some people have their lifetime savings invested in a cryptocurrency...
And when you look and see how fragile the Bitcoin economy is... a bug discovered in the network software locks thousands of people out of their Bitcoin deposits at the world's largest exchange.

MtGox is talking about:
-  "The Bitcoin core developers"... they have "discussed" the solution proposed.
and,
- allow Bitcoin withdrawals again once the MtGox solution has been approved and standardized.

Huh? I thought Bitcoin was a decentralized currency with no central authority regulating it. And if we can alter the algorithms and checks now in place, who to say anyone cannot do it in the future again (some other "Core Developers" from another exchange)?

Can I send a couple of hookers to those "core developers " to get them to work for me?

In the same statement they make clear that there can be two implementations for a new TXID the same way there are multiple Bitcoin clients and implementations. It would just be convenient if there was only one standard for TXIDs.  In practice you don't really need TXIDs to be non-mutable (which is one of the reasons why it was not fixed for 2 years) and a lot of people and exchanges don't care about them. See the Kraken exchange and other less known ones that didn't pause for a second.

GOX has had serious problems for long and waiting for "approvals" is just yet another stalling technique.

Consensus of who?
A group of people?
An Organization?
Do we have a list of the names of those people somewhere and  where they live ?

Consensus of the other clients. If you start sending wrong transactions every client will refuse them and thus will not propagate them.

And we're back up to 700 ish this morning, too late for me to make a $400 killing. Drat.

C

Wake me up when a bug locks me out of my wallet.

Anyone who keeps their money on an exchange is an idiot.  Period.

Anyone who puts their life savings in one investment is so far beyond an "idiot" it's not discuss-able.

C

actually moved my only 7.8 BTC in doge, just seemed right to do.
BTC falling while doge rising, will convert back when BTC sorts out its downward trend.
in the meantime, im making money!

Depends how much is in your lifesavings lol.

It was only worth 10k btc if you got the garlic butter.

A good read:

Bitcoin’s largest exchange is dying. Here’s why that’s not a problem for Bitcoin.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/02/15/bitcoins-largest-exchange-is-dying-heres-why-thats-not-a-problem-for-bitcoin/

I hope bitcoin crashes to a few dollars so I can get in but I doubt that will happen people will buy like crazy if it hits $200 so there is no way goes that low unless the code is a total disaster thing or government tries to crash it in which case i'm buying

Yep. Keep calm and mine on.

That's what I'm doing.
No reason to panic just like anything it will have it's problems and ups and downs.

i did. I am not an idiot. I am conscious to be risking. But greed, greed pushed me to do that.

If you do come CoinBet.cc to spend it :)

"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue." - Steve McCroskey

Here's another good read:
http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/11/mtgox/

And so now I have an idea: I will hire a bunch of 19-year old Russian hackers and form our own "Stratton Oakmont, BTC Inc." (seen the movie "Wolf of Wall street"?). We will buy MtGox for next to nothing and turn it around. Everyone will be paid with Vodka and the sexual favors of Japanese schoolgirls. Yes - you guessed it - our headquarters will be in Tokyo, the spiritual capital of Bitcoin.
Since a bunch of "core developers" of BTC clients (such as Bitcoin-QT and other clients) can get together and agree on a consensus to modify the way a blockchain is validated, we will develop our own new client (let's call it "Bitcoin-SO" (where SO is short for Stratton Oakmont), and this new client will compete with Bitcoin-QT and will direct 0.0001 BTC of every network transaction to our personal wallets.

In its initial launch phase, I am taking applications to fill various positions within the startup company. Who's in?

I guess the question is when will Gox either fish or get off the pot? They have been in this lingering mode for awhile, either they fix themselves or just go out of business.

Any idea when that point will be reached?

C

The situation on the exchanges is similar to the one in Kiev, once bad news strikes. (sadly)