Bitcoin Forum

The manipulator is back!!!

But this time instead of buying a shitload of Bitcoins then selling them making the price go all screwy...he is messing with us by making sure that the price is VERY stable...

Man this guy is diabolical!

How much did he give you to be his mouthpiece?

I noticed the same thing happening. I wonder what their goals are here. Maybe they figure that causing a long-term stable price will help them push the price up higher later.

I'm sick of this stable price crap.  Can't make money day trading.

although it's nice to see it somewhat stable, the volume is really low, very fragile condition.

what's interesting, we might be seeing actual market volume (not for the whole economy, just related to the exchanges) while traders are waiting for their turn to make moves

See historic comparison...
Stable prices have nothing to do with manipulation. It happens all the time in financial markets, and it also happened for bitcoins already many times. See here for an example:

https://twitter.com/#!/BitcoinAnalyst (https://twitter.com/#!/BitcoinAnalyst)

Its quite simple the volume of orders vastly exceeds the number of direct buy/sell or we have a low relative market volume atm.
This has to lead to stable prices and is exactly what is happening.

Correct, it is a reflection of overall market balance, which will change big time soon (in a matter of hours, days, or maximum of 3 weeks)

You think btcusd is really going back to $10 again?

That's simple - he is trying to drive us crazy!

In principle yes, and it will even make an all time high as long as the long term trend remains up.

When it happens and how long it takes, this is where the uncertainty lies, not about the if.

But, if prices break below the long term uptrend line, then bitcoin has a big issue.

There's barely any movement/volatility in this market at the moment.

Market size is still 37 million US$.

It's amazing how activity on this board also mirrors the volume traded.   Even the chatter is dead.  Nothing to do but sit back and wait for some event to push BTC either up or down.

That's what The Manipulator wants you to think.

LOL nice one mate !

That's what he wants you to think that he wants you to think...

Mua-ha ha ha ha, Yes!
This IS what I want you all to think!
Mua ha ha cough cough hem...oop there goes a lung!

You are rationalizing the statistics in a way that does not fit with the very irrational reaction when bitcoin got mainstream press and trended up the way it did.

That mountain of bids at $4.47 and $4.45 right now looks rather impressive.  Someone with a lot of cash doesn't want bitcoins to fall much further (than they already have).  They really put a floor underneath the falling market.  Will it hold?

Well, let's see ... the "wall" is 60,000 BTC strong ... there is 216,000 BTC generated *every month* ... so no, unless the fundamentals change (bitcoin starts to be actually useful and used because of that as a currency) then the downward spiral will continue until such change or the final death of bitcoin.

Or maybe some early adopter is trying to sell off the rest of his stash?

If you sell into this wall and he was serious - it bounces and you are the sucker.

If you buy his last stash of bitcoins and he pulls that floor from under your feet - bitcoin crashes and you are the sucker.

Risky business.

+1 for both of you

If I had tens of thousands or more bitcoins right now, and a good amount of money from prior sells, and I saw prices drop to levels threatening mining profitability (and therefore possibly ending up in a namecoin-like situation) I'd setup some bid walls to prop prices up high enough to keep miners going while I try to sell the rest of my bitcoins at the highest price possible before prices crash.  There are more profitable places to put money than in some failing crypto-currency that won't recover until many many months if not years down the road, assuming it ever recovers at all, so they might as well extract as much as they can while they can.

Someone set up a huge buy wall. ~45,000 dollars. I think that will hold.

$45000 / ($4 / 1 BTC) = 11250 BTC
11250 BTC / (7200 BTC / 24 hours) = 37,5 hours
before going down

Manipulate yourself.

This 'manipulator' talk is hilarious.

There is no "manipulator"  unless manipulator = anyone who wants to make money.

Somehow I think that if I increased my current investment 100-fold that I, too, would be "The Manipulator."

Unless there's some guy in his basement wearing a cape with a huge "M" on the back of it.

The manipulator is a bad trader's excuse for failing at the market. 

+1 agree

Anyone notice the manipulator pulled his 10K bitcoin wall back to 3.8. It is looking bad for bitcoin.

No, it's only gets bad when his walls get sold into.  When he just moves them around that's a non-event.

Explain. I mean, an individual has to be making these large scale orders, considering how fast they rise and fall. Maybe it's an early adopter with a massive stockpile, maybe it's another exchange or Bitcoinica's hedging, but other than that, what explains 10k coins going up and going down instantaneously? This isn't piecemeal market behavior.

I refuse to jump on the bandwagon that it's some massive conspiracy crap, but "fake" walls of this size and frequency are perception manipulation, pure and simple, unless I'm missing something significant with the way the exchanges work. If this is the case, I'm really curious.

I laugh it off because the name completely neglects any rational psychology.

It's not manipulation, it's trading.  I put up and remove bid and sell walls all the time too.  The only difference between me and them is that they have way more capital than I do. 

Or maybe it's captain fat-fingers putting an extra zero on figures

Don't let the manipulator to manipulate you!

It is trading if you want to hold some bitcoins and you buy them, or if you have some bitcoins and you sell them at the current market price. Or maybe even throw in a set price for your bitcoins.

It is manipulation when you put up bid walls (as the manipulator does) to try and make other people buy or sell bitcoins. This is manipulation because he is trying to show that there is lots of demand for bitcoins, when in reality he just removes these bitcoins as soon as the price starts dropping.

I am sure you get my idea. He is playing on the psychology of others.

It is trading if you want to hold some bitcoins and you buy them, or if you have some bitcoins and you sell them at the current market price. Or maybe even throw in a set price for your bitcoins.

It is manipulation when you put up bid walls (as the manipulator does) to try and make other people buy or sell bitcoins. This is manipulation because he is trying to show that there is lots of demand for bitcoins, when in reality he just removes these bitcoins as soon as the price starts dropping.

I am sure you get my idea. He is playing on the psychology of others.
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YES! Exactly. Some people on here give the good old 'this person just wants profit' argument to say it isn't manipulation. It is kind of a no brainer as obviously the person wants profit, and they are doing what they think will work to get that profit. Which includes these massive walls. This person doesn't need to be mustache twirling evil, or have a grand master plan, to be 'manipulating'. And just because people are seeing this and discussing doesn't really make them bad or good traders, simply people observing and discussing.

Some personal experience, Captain? (+1)

EVERYONE plays on the psychology of others.  I put up buy and sell walls too.  I simply don't have enough capital so the influence of my orders doesn't have nearly as much psychological impact on the market.  

What I'm saying is that the only difference between the guy or group of guys who place large bid/sell orders and everyone else is that they have capital and their bids/sells are noticed.  If you argue frequency, I'll argue back.  I sometimes adjust my bid/sells 10 times in an hour depending on market volatility, but far less (if at all) when volatility is low.  This reflects the movements of large bid/sells on mt. gox -- they are more frequent when volatility is high.

It's also kind of moot to talk about wanting to make people buy or sell bitcoins -- it ends up back at the money differential.  When there is a panic buy or sell, people buy and sell.  Every buy in a panic buy can be seen by others on Mt. Gox Live and it adds to the event psychology.  The only reason it isn't as likely to make the market move is because the majority of people have less money.  

But then again, the sum of all people with less money than the "manipulators" could also said to be manipulating the manipulators!  That's what happens in panic buys and sells.  Everyone buys or sells because they 1) Want to get in on the action and 2) Want the market to move in a certain direction.  This then 'manipulates' what the 'manipulator' does.  And, the reverse is true for the 'manipulators,' too -- 1) They want to get in on the action and 2) Want to make the market move in a certain direction.  And in that order.

It seems manipulators are simply guys with loot.  

Next you know, the 'manipulator' will be statistically random and everyone will panic and cry, "He's so ruthless!  Nobody can figure out what he's doing!  It appears his actions look like everyone else's!  He's a genius!"

In retrospect, the name "Manipulator" was probably a poor choice. Should have been more verbose, like "A guy like me except has more money in the game", but, in Edward's defense, that doesn't flow nearly as easily ;)

If guys with money = manipulator, there's no reason truth cant = jesus

Edit:  Ahhhhh!!!! Maybe you guys are right!   It's almost winter but Mt Gox Live looks exactly like the top of an upside-down snowcone!!  This guy's an asshole!!

With your mom :-P

Yeah, actually I was suggesting you were the fat-fingered captain putting an extra zero on figures. But if you think my mom enjoys that, have at it.

See this meme http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=Where+is+your+god+now%3F&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=1

Then...


$2/coin!
WHERE IS YOUR MANIPULATOR NOW?

Hey Minsc, I wonder you were spreading permabear rhetoric and posted tulip bubble images 2 weeks ago and now you suddenly become bullish?
I don't exactly get where you are at, what now is BTC gonna fail or not?

It seems you are just always trying to provoke with opposition no matter what without any basis.... or at least I'm not seeing any, if there is tell me!

ElectricMucus, I get bearish when it stagnates.  If it was stable, it would move a bit around a range, but move.  Stagnating means lack of interest in the coins.

Right now at such an extreme low it looks like it's just about to surge high.  I may be wrong and it may crash to $1, but it looks like it's going to go up big.  It may take a month.  It may take till next Spring, but it's near the sweet bottom.

bitcoin prices will make another low at 60% probabilty and the buy trigger is quite far away: now 4$.

Any buying now carries the risk of catching a falling guiliotine knife.

As long as the price keeps bouncing up and down, bots are feasting on simple trades.  I recently unleashed my custom written bot and it's doing rather nicely.  The only time I lose out is when the market has a massive surge up or down and doesn't retrace its previous levels (eg. trades at $5 are a pipe dream today).  I wonder how many purely human traders there are in the market?

That's true.  When it hits bottom it tends to either:
1) Stagnate for a long time before rallying big
2) Rally up and then a mere 20 cents later some asshole will dump $50,000 worth of coins to force it back down and it'll crash even more


So all those miners and early adopters who didn't sell, didn't sell, etc. now when it's gone to $2 are all "Okay perfect time to sell!"  And when it goes below $1, they'll think it's an even better time to sell.  They should've sold at $10.

I gotta wonder, don't bots just follow the swings so as the price steadily drops, you end up with more bitcoins but less USD$ worth of bitcoins?

Yes. If your bot keeps a lot of bitcoins (say 50% bicoins, 50% usd) then you have been losing money.