Bitcoin Forum

Problems besides mtgox:

There seems to be a very narrow minded focus on the forum lately about mtgox. People seem to think that if mtgox' issue was resolved, that bitcoin would go straight to the moon. Let me remind you there are other issues besides mtgox.

I'm not trying to say "sell everything" or "bitcoin crashing to hell" etc. I just want to divert the narrow discussions.

Here is a list I compiled. It might not even be complete. Feel free to add.

1. Final Capitulation
2. PBOC policies still stand in China and no new chinese capital has come suddenly flying in as of Jan 31st/Feb8.
3. Russian ban.
4. Cyprus issues a bank advisory (like China), which leads to at least the perception that btc-e is at serious risk.
5. India
6. Apple removed blockchain app from app store, and the implications that this has about corporate control of what the public eye sees.
7. Major exchanges were able to flashcrash to $100 (indicates weakness)
8. Flaws on Bitfinex have been exploited, traders on Bitfinex have lost money. The staff at Bitfinex showed themselves as bad at responding to issues and unfit to be running an exchange.
9. The exchanges have had large amounts of funds (millions) stolen from them which could lead to potential insolvency or unethical actions in the future (or at least more mistrust in exchanges).
10. A large loss in confidence and trustworthiness in the existing exchange system, for a variety of reasons.
11. The malleability bug and its lasting impact on public trust and confidence in the Bitcoin software even if it gets fixed.
12. Loss of trust in bitcoin foundation board members.
13. Large amounts of hacker coins, which will eventually be dumped for fiat.
14. FBI Silk Road coins (27K or 144K) entering the market (somehow).
15. Men in florida were arrested and received felony money laundering charges for using localbitcoins. Even if it was really due to credit card fraud, it makes the public scared of using LocalBitcoins and casts a bad light on government perception of Bitcoin.
16. Silk Road 2 closed its escrow service.
17. Gox started processing cash withdrawals, fiat is actually exiting the system, and many jaded investors are most likely actually leaving the economy altogether.
18. Btce halted fiat withdrawal.
19. The closure of btc withdrawals by major bitcoin exchanges. (resolved)
20. Major indicators on charts that turned down before the gox crash even began.
21. Gox

Outstanding work! It looks even worse than i thought. Is there a climax for uber-bear, cause i think i am one from now on.

22. LegitTA says another 30-50% drop about to come in.

Could this thread be declared as sticky. I think everyone especially new bitcoiners should be aware of those problems. Most of them even don´t know about Gox.
Do you claim copyrights on this or is it okay if i send this out to the newspapers and media?  :D

You just gave fonzie a boner.

 ;) :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

JP Morgan is paying scripts kids to FUD/news

23. BTC-E BTCwithdrawl issues gettin more and more
     https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=459464.0

None of those really matter. Fundamentals are still solid, fud just means more time to buy cheap coins.

Please stop spamming this thread, only topic related contributions in here!

Cheap coins... stop using that term when every fortnight the price keeps declining by 100 dollars.

And?

That list is shorter than anytime since the inception of bitcoin. Should we make a list about what is going right? Or would that be too fair?

 I wouldn't like to be in trenches with TERA  ;D

Anything below 1k is cheap.

The point is simply I want people to stop talking about 'when gox gets fixed, everything will be fixed, and here's what will happen'.  There was even someone who denied that there were any problems besides mtgox and someone else who said 'if you can't understand why a new ATH will be reached when mtgox opens withdrawals then you shouldn't be trading bitcoin' or something like that.

Look, the 200 SMA is at 450+ and rising $3 a day. How low do you really think this market is going to go?

If that support gets tested I will buy more and you could make a list 200+ items long and it would not matter.  This last rise was %wise lower than 2011 and April 2013, so I don't figure it's bear wake will be worse.

Then its $0 vs. $10k. Which side are you on? There are only 2.

Still irrelevant. This topic is about the content of discussions and how arguments get constructed regarding mtgox.  "Bitcoin will rally because of these technicals" (like you mentioned) may be a valid argument but  "Bitcoin will rally because mtgox" is not.

Bitcoin will rally when Gox opens withdrawals is absolutely a valid argument. That doesn't mean bear market reversal, but if you don't think there is a huge Gox weight on the market right now you're fooling yourself.

Thanks.

The fact is that the world has its eyes on gox. We can fume about that all we want but it won't change. The mal thing will be forgotten in a few weeks, few months at most. China is priced in by now, nobody cares about the Red Menace. It's all gox running the show right now.

Good stuff. You have been very busy at work. Have you been looking at the charts and feeling tempted to start thinking about going long yet are plagued with a foreboding sense that much more shit is yet to come by any chance? I certainly know that this is how I have been feeling the last few days and no mater how much I want to believe that this market is due for turnaround, something in me is quite convinced that we are still very much in bear season at this point in time, regardless of the idiot Bitcoin cheer-leaders on this site declaring that Bitcoin will be back 2 tha moon just whenever Karpeles gets a new doughnut transplant or whatever.

Now I have a list to back up my largely intuitive opinion that there still be ravenous bears in them woods. More slaughter to come for those who stubbornly HODL in the face of reality.


There are many benefits to the Bitcoin trader from frequenting this forum, but man, you had better take your anti-Bitcoin Nutter pills beforehand. Although, the value in this false consensus, is that you can bet your bottom dollar that when/if actual good news comes out of Gox, that there will be sharp suckers rally across all exchanges.

You're wasting your breath trying to be reasonable or "fair".

This thread is a trollfest of those whose "minds" are made up based on limited experience.

Don't take them seriously.

Enjoy the comedy.

Do you not get embarrassed about being perpetually wrong?

Sure, you got in nice and early, but does it not bother you that if your net worth could be double what it presently is, if only you weren't such a fkn idiot?

The problems by the OP were known for quite some time. I'll add what I see as worrisome:
Manipulators taking advantage of a particular situation (MtGox) to crash the price well below the
'normal' drop for this stage of the market. This can be repeated on other exchanges.
I believe that there should be some kind of rules regarding exchanges, when their price falls below
50% of others', they should stop trading until their issues are solved (or not).

I am really astonished that several people call TERA a troll?
I guess it´s due to the fact that everyone who isn´t bullish is called a troll.(or idiot/non-believer, narrow minded, ...)

Or did i miss something TERA , and you are in fact really a troll?

24.


http://i58.tinypic.com/140zy3q.jpg

TERA is not troll, I actually think he is really a nice guy in real life, I do have problems to understand how he came so far with Bitcoin though and how he invested money in it in a first place, he looks like scared to death with each 20$ price move.

TERA is a trader.

He uses leverage on Bitfinex i believe, something I did until I decided it wasn't a reliable enough place for me to to business (i.e. i think trading on this place runs higher risk than I am prepared to take, of one day the doors just closing and/or some hack sell/buy wiping out all my funds).

If he has say $20K, he will be leveraging that up to $45K, which at present prices is about 70-80 BTC?

That makes a $20 move a ~$1500K profit or loss depending which way you placed your bets in relation to the move. No laughing matter. Especially since stop losses are best avoided altogether on these shady bastard margin call farming exchanges.

Actually, I was a latecomer. I didn't get in until the price was already double digits.


Bitcoins represent less than 5% of my net worth if I base it on what I paid for them. That's all they're really worth until I sell them.

Perhaps I could have "doubled" my bitcoins if I'd gambled more of them on daytrading, but I could just as easily have ended up with half as many, as many traders have. At least I'm smart enough to realize that there are others with more resources than I whom I'd be a fool to compete against. I'm not a multimillionaire.

Also, there are no fees on holding.

Cheers. Enjoy your short positions.
______

***congratulates oneself for maintaining civilized debate with name-calling troll***

Indeed. When I called this thread a trollfest I wasn't referring to the OP.

Not all bears are trolls.

Apologies for the dreadful typos and formatting but I'm ill.


Last year we were hearing all about 'capitulation' from the chartists, who insisted 266 could not be bettered until we had experienced this mythical state.  Look how that turned out.


And conversely, the exchanges are still standing.  I imagine the party brothers are lining their pockets with cheap coins on the side.


The ban that no-one can work out if it really is a ban.  Like China, a fluid state of affairs.


An advisory that is almost verbatim to that issued by central banks around the world saying BTC investment can be a risky business.  At the same time Cyprus is hosting the world's first BTC bank (opens next week) and its university is accepting BTC as payment for its courses.  While BTC-e is registered as a business in Cypress, how you extrapolate it is a serious risk because of this statement I don't know, other than you spend too much time in the trollbox.


Issued the same warning as mentioned above.  Central banks are covering themselves - its what functionaries do.


Apple has been removing BTC apps from its store since the beginning...you should know this.
Whats hilarious is that each time they change the reason.


Er...flash crashes on the FTSE, Hang Sang etc.

That's life matey.


Yep, most of the infrastructure around BTC is being run by opportunists...its the wild west.


So, problems with exchanges...see point above.


And again


Two different issues here.
Malleability has been known about for years form what I can glean and recent upgrades addressed it.  So, we get back to the issue of exchanges not doing proper housekeeping.
As for the PR, well yes that's been a disaster.  Gox has spun the story very well and the BTCF has epically failed.


See above.


Speculation and the only coins that thus far have been 'stolen' are from SR2, whihc in the scheme of things are a small number.  Correct me if I'm wrong there - I'm not Interpol.


If ever.


You Americans and your obsession with crime and punishment.  What can I say.


But you still pay in BTC


Speculation


Did it?  Looks fine to me.


Market goes up, market goes down.

A bad few weeks no doubt but you gotta have the rain to have the rainbows.

Say wha?  There definitely was a capitulation to ~$70 before the price moved up.

Have a look through the threads between August and October.
$70 was not the target to satisfy 'capitulation' according to chart whizzs...we had to go a lot lower, remember <$5 coins was the 'norm' before January 2013

26. Confirmed 100 000 BTC stolen from sheepmarketplace (will hit the market sooon)

http://www.coindesk.com/sheep-marketplace-track-stolen-bitcoins/

It's because all you care is USD, and you're scared to death to lose any. I'm trader too, I trade like there's no tomorrow daily and I barely give a damn about 1500 USD as it's only 2-3 BTC, and there're options to make that daily with 20-30 BTC of investment. I specially don't give a damn about that amount when I am hedging my positions to be on the safe side.

1500 USD is nothing for anyone who's in crypto world for few months ans is regular trader. Going mental and losing a shit for that amount in such turbulent market where making that amount is fairly easy is childish. Specially when you usually need few hours or day or two of patience to see prices that put you into green again.

I'm now in some short trades and if price goes up a bit, I'll be far more in red than 1500 USD but I don't care for a second. I'm tradng with pure profit money and hedging against a crash so if things turn against me I'll be perfectly fine to rebuy at loss and keep going. In last 2 weeks I made more money than I'd do in 5 years without crypto trading so if I lose 6 months of that money I couldn't care less. I failed to take 5000$ profit yesterday for few hours of 110 BTC trade, and I'm dancing on edge of going into loss now on 200+ BTC trade now so what should I do - go crazy for it. Well, I won't.

TERA is in similar position, he said many times that he made big profits from BTC trading and I believe he is well into 3 digit numbers of BTC so going into paranoid mode on each small move should not be an option and he looks bit silly when he does it.

So chill the fuck out, both of you, there's no more easy way to make money on the planet right now, why the fuck are you constantly putting yourself under pressure and making your life difficult when there's no reason for it to be like that.

That story is three months old, for all we know those coins have been sold already.

We won't know whether a capitulation is final until next bull market (and we won't be sure a bull market has started until the last ATH is broken). So this has no predictive power


PBOC does not ban fiat transfer with banks. Huobi, OKCoin, and BTCChina are now processing deposit and withdrawal through the biggest banks in the country. Obviously these banks know what they are doing.


The only single country that I would really worry about is the US, but a Russian-style ban is unlikely


It seems they store money in Czech, not Cyprus: http://www.coindesk.com/btc-e-recent-issues-caused-surge-users/


Comparing with Russia, this is neglectable


Fact: iOS is dying, Android is growing: http://www.macrumors.com/2014/01/27/iphone-share-strong-android-lead/

Removing blockchain app is just one more nail in their coffin


And went back to where it was in 2 minutes. The moron who sold to $100 is the only one who got hurt.


This is actually getting better. The exchange industry is now oligopoly instead of monopoly


Bugs in traditional transaction platforms are common. By the way, what didn't kill you makes you stronger


Then just let them die.


We had plenty of hacker coins since 2010 and the price is >1000x higher now


So FBI will hold an auction with all Silicon Valley VC and Wall Street whales bid the "cleanest" coins ever. I couldn't imagine a more bullish headline than this.


When you touch fiat, you always need to follow the fiat rules. People will learn the lesson


The late 2013 bubble was ignited by Silk Road closure, didn't it?


Is this what you mean?

Not processing cash withdrawals: bearish
Processing cash withdrawals: bearish

18. Btce halted fiat withdrawal.

The market does not think this is a problem as there is no panic and the price on BTC-E is still consistently lower than Bitstamp and Chinese markets.

19. The closure of btc withdrawals by major bitcoin exchanges. (resolved)



Just a normal cycle IMHO

21. Gox
[/quote]

^^^^^^^Far more lucid rebuttal than mine.  :P  ;)

Well that would be different. I bought my first speculative Bitcoin at around $700 in November 2013. Thus I am not Bitcoin noveau riche and a $1500 loss would be a kick in the teeth to me, regardless of what I have earned previously.


Yeah...I read that, and then stopped reading.

Almost is bad as saying "Crash? what crash? We were like $300 dollars 3 months ago and we are now $600, I make that a 100% rise!"

Mat, sorry to hear you stopped reading.  That post took ages and I was feeling very ill.  'Capitulation' is, from what I can make out, about percentages/ratios....so while $70 may seem low now, at the time it was still pretty high and the pointy heads said we needed to go lower.  It's all relative.

I think you have a lot positive to offer here, but you need to divorce yourself from your buy in price.   The golden rule really is don't lose what you can't afford to lose.  If your losses are hurting that much you should ask yourself if this game is for you.

If your situation seems bad, think on this. 

I first heard of Bitcoin in 2011, which is when I first joined this forum, I lurked and read a bit and thought nothing of it.   I bought my first coins in late 2012 at about $1 each and I spent them all.  I didn't do any serious investment until the price was $70.  If I had been smarter I could have solved a lot of problems in my life and provided for my family.  The opportunity was staring me in the face and I missed it.  What a clown, huh?

But if you dwell on the mistakes and the might have beens, life isn't worth living.

As always, peace.

Whilst I do not suggest that the issues you mention are not important.

I will point out that none of them are actually to do with Bitcoin, they are all to do with humans/organizations/governments/banks, and present in every avenue of life, especially where money is concerned.

I hate losing so much.....that I haven't made a loss (overall). Very far from it actually. As soon as things aren't going my way I am out for a bit. When I re-enter this market long, I want to be as sure as possible that I am on the right side of the trade. Only the market action itself can convince me that the time is right and right about now, I am convinced the time is very very wrong, to go long.

I could also rewrite your spiel above with just a few changes:

I first heard of Bitcoin in 2011, and read a bit and thought "wow, this could be a game changer".   I bought my first coins in early 2011 at about $1 each and I spent them all.  I didn't do any serious investment until the price was $700.  If I had been smarter I could have solved a lot of problems in my life.  The opportunity was staring me in the face and I missed it.  What a clown, huh?

25. Canada's Last Bitcoin-Friendly Bank Closes Accounts Nationwide
      http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1y7ln2/cointradernet_canadas_last_bitcoinfriendly_bank/

"basically that means if you have bitcoins and live in canada, you will be unable to sell them on any exchange, even ones outside of the country as the [fiat] funds will be blocked from entering canada."



WOW.That´s pretty bad. USA might be next.

When you can just use services like www.localbitcoins.com and www.litecoinlocal.org