Bitcoin Forum

The chives growing in one crypto tycoon's California mansion carry a hidden message.

Guo Hongcai, a beef salesman turned early bitcoin adopter from China's Shanxi province, is one of many freshly minted millionaires funneling parts of their wealth out of the country by purchasing real estate abroad.

In April, Hongcai sold 500 bitcoin in the U.S. then used that money to buy a 100,000-square-foot mansion in Los Gatos, a 90-minute drive from San Francisco, California. His Rolls-Royce, also purchased with the fruits of bitcoin arbitrage, sits in the driveway close to a small chives garden.

"It's very normal to sell bitcoin in the U.S. After selling bitcoin, you can just buy anything you want," he told CoinDesk.

Guo calls this secondary residence his "Mansion of Chives," because the vegetable is also Chinese slang for crypto investors who prove vulnerable to big sell-offs.

As Chinese regulators clamp down on industry business on the mainland, crypto millionaires are turning to foreign real estate markets to diversify their holdings. Some purchase property directly with crypto, others like Hongcai use bitcoin to gain foreign currencies without going through a bank.

The founders of one U.S. crypto real estate startup, who spoke on condition of anonymity, told CoinDesk roughly one-third of their prospective users hail from Asia, figures which include Chinese investors seeking tokenized property rights through Hong Kong securities brokers.

According to the South China Morning Post, real estate purchased in Hong Kong doesn't require the same taxes and documentation as other financial assets held abroad. Chinese investment in foreign real estate, often through Hong Kong brokers, has been rising for years. Now early bitcoin adopters are utilizing new wealth for familiar patterns.

"The requests we have from them start at $50,000 or $100,000 up to, the latest one was $3 to $4 million for Silicon Valley," Natalia Karayaneva, CEO of Propy, another crypto-powered real estate marketplace, told CoinDesk.

She added:


Read more: https://www.coindesk.com/china-bitcoin-crypto-millionaire-real-estate/

This is the exact reason why China is so hostile towards Bitcoin - they don't want to have any more capital flight, which has been a problem for their economy for a while. Add their general intolerance towards any forms of freedom, and you can see that their anti-Bitcoin moves were meant to happen. But the good thing is that Bitcoin doesn't care if it's legal or not, and millions of people around the world will use it as a tool to break from totalitarian countries or at least make their lives better.

I absolutely agree with you. I even think that there are only two options for the current Chinese government: realize its mistakes and rectify them or stand down/be overthrown. People of China, poor and rich, show that they want to live in a free world, which gives much more opportunities than living in a totalitarian state.

I bet most of the Bitcoin holders who buy real estate in foreign countries would not do that if they could live the life they want to live in their native land.

Revolutions happen when population is both angry and strong, and I think the Chinese are neither: too much people are indoctrinated by official propaganda and opposition is too scared and small to succeed. If necessary, China will repeat Tiananmen scenario easily and will suffer to repercussions. The only realistic scenario for change is if the government will weaken over long periods of time, like it happened with many empires and totalitarian regimes of the past. And Bitcoin can be a part of this process, by undermining the economic control of their government.

This kinds of news does not surprise me anymore. Obviously people who have a hefty amount of Bitcoin will obviously start to invest in other assets such as real estate properties. We don't expect them to wait for the Bitcoin's price to start marching back above 10,000$  as they have a lot of BTCs to dispose. It is there money and I don't think that we need to always make a news out of it. As news like this one are irrelevant and will most likely not affect the market at all.

The logic of Chinese government is simple: it's going to launch its own crypto (recall how the state has got 41 cryptocurrencies related patent including the one that implies the creation of special state digital wallet) and now official Beiijng strives to pave the way for this.

I disagree. China is neither former Soviet Union, nor current North Korea. People are much more open minded there, and this is not surprising considering that they can watch movies made in Western countries, read books, go abroad etc. I don't think another bloody revolution is needed though. IMO the government can be changed in a peaceful way.


I really doubt that. We are no longer in 1989 and many things have changed since then, particularly in China. I mean Chinese soldiers are different from those from 1989 in a sense that they are are less likely to follow the order to kill their own citizens.


That's right, only I don't think it will take long for this to happen.

I think that the Bitcoin holders invested not because they felt oppressed in their own country but because it's simply a good investment. We can't argue that the Chinese government is somewhat controlling, but I don't think it has come to a point where it deprives its citizens of their rights and would make them revolt for wanting to live in a free world. China is a control freak but I think they are able to compensate for their citizens. They just simply want to have total control and they're enjoying the power they have as a massive state. Bitcoin may not do so as much as pierce into their power.

It makes sense to buy real estate abroad because if they invest in their own countries, their governments can ask the source of money and make high taxation. That's why people prefer to invest abroad to get rid of this taxation and I'm sure it's not just the Chinese who act like this .

Chinese buy MANY real estate around the world. Especially in big capitals. Cosmopolitan and traditional cities. They do it as Store of Value. It is not exactly an investment seeking a large percentage of return. They want only not lose what they have. And that risk exists.

Now, imagine if they really rediscovered the potential that Bitcoin has not only as an exchange of values. But mainly, as a reserve of value. And they do not need a real estate. They just need a paper wallet.

Chinese buy houses on Canada (https://montrealgazette.com/business/local-business/real-estate/chinese-millionaires-lined-up-to-buy-montreal-real-estate-expert)
Chinese buy a lot of houses on Uk (https://www.scmp.com/business/article/2130760/asian-investor-appetite-uk-property-outweigh-privacy-concerns-planned)
Chines buys houses on NY (https://nypost.com/2018/06/02/chinese-koreans-among-biggest-real-estate-investors/)

New York, San Francisco and Los Angeles made up 72% of deal volume from Chinese investors in 2017. And be very sure this percentage will increase in coming years.

Exactly, since China's sudden U-turn those who became rich through crypto will find ways to diversify to obviously, the most logical investment is real state which is a boom right now in China. There are probably a lot of avenues as well, maybe stocks or even gold and precious metals are the other viable options of them. But I'm sure that some of them are still heavily investment on crypto and just finding ways to hide it from the eyes of the Chinese government.

Since time immemorial people have been finding way to make headway across border if their home country is not giving them the right environment to flourish and thanks to various charters and agreements that have been signed even before a lot of us were born, it becomes easy to move to another accommodating environment that allows them just that they would be limited in what they can do but the benefit of that decision, surely outweigh the costs.

In the future, I see the countries that have taken a negative stance begin to review their policies when they realize the extent of capital flight happening and there is nothing they can do to stop while those money moving offshore is being used to develop another economy who most times is their own competitor.

This is exactly what happens if you start a zero tolerance policy towards cryptos. Goverments in China and India are fearing that their inner capital will flow away and ban cryptos only to see that money is going out all the same.

Not only Chinese wealthy are buying houses outside their country , I recently red that India investors are setting up crypto investment funds in US because they are not allowed in their home country. Therefore not only cryptos owned by Chinese and Indians is flowing away but also FIAT.