Bitcoin Forum

Financial experts and theorists say ETFs can have the same if not BIGGER effect on BC price than futures, which can send BTC soaring to 20k and beyond!

  Do you guys belief this hype? Will the be the catalyst that sends crypto soaring with institutional money? What are your opinions?

Yeah why not, since BTC etf approval will surely encourage more and more big investors to invest here that can cause price to go off. But only if the etf be approved  ;D

It’s totally depends on BTC ETFs. By this if they can encourage to invest newbie then it will be a successful plan otherwise flop.

Only recently submitted ETF can affect the price movement of bitcoin to increase especially if ETF successfully entered the market, maybe bitcoin price will continue to increase even can exceed the peak of its current highest price. With ETFs, investors feel more secure because when a cybercrime happens and result in loss of money then investors are not worried because the ETF provides insurance against the money invested.

We should not believe in these experts. Believe in ourselves and stay committed to bitcoin and altcoins. Not just announce an exporter would invest us immediately. We must also have our own research so we can also have concrete knowledge.

Yes, indeed. And we can expect to make a blow up raisement in the end of the year and could take the highest ATH ever in the history.

Hey I mean if all the ''Experts'' were right earlier then I would already be a millionaire....

They are saying with sense so why not?

So what do you think the market will go after ETF approval? what will be the price of bitcoin and how will it affect the market?

You don't want to invest immediately to bitcoin?

This is correct.

You have a point but everyone knows that if ETF will be approved this will create a positive impact to bitcoin.

Can you please link the master article here? I would love to read about Bitcoin ETF

at least a short-term growth from this I think we can expect. it is even possible to exceed the $ 20,000 mark, because this is a major fundamental event, similar to the legalization of cryptocurrencies

The prices being mooted are close to reality if there was to be a bitcoin ETC approval. I do not think the SEC will approve one though unfortunately so it’s all a bit of fantasy atm.

I think it could be Because ETF will make Bitcoin more secure and progressive. As a result, its demand will increase from earlier. Investment will increase and prices will increase.

The social media sentiment right now;

# when is the next bull run.
# will we break $20,000 this year?
# ETF will pump Bitcoin to whatever ridiculous amount.

This tickles my bearish side. If there wasn't an ETF coming up I would gladly open up a short right now.

Why do people speculate about an increase, ETF approval or bull run? Because they bought in already.

Why do people desperately want the price to break $20,000? Because they hold expensive coins they are looking to sell.

In other words, there is barely any buying power to initiate and maintain a bull run. Also, bull runs happen when dumb money isn't expecting it.

unfortunately there has been a great number of people online talking about bitcoin price and at the same time claim to be "experts" about it. the worst thing is when some of these newbies gets one guess right, we never hear the end of it.
my suggestion is that you stop listening to self claimed experts. they are just expressing their opinion/guess.

here is my guess: these big prices are always possible, more possible in longer term and less in short such as end of the year. we will see a rise because of ETF both because of its news prior to the  date (hyped up) and its actual event in case it is approved but it won't be the reason for rise to $20k,... that rise requires actual investors coming back and more adoption to take place and that requires longer time it won't happen in 4-5 months.

I have been waiting to read who are these financial experts and theorists that they have no other option than to be optimistic about every situation. The same experts that predicted in January that when Wall Street guys receive their bonuses, price of bitcoin would increase. The same people who predicted that the when Chinese holiday is over price will increase and the same set of 'experts' who predicted that because of the trade war happening between the United States and China, the price of bitcoin could reach another all time high. But unfortunately, all of those predictions have ended up being false.

Just like the thread I had commented earlier, whether ETF or not, the price of bitcoin would still rise and fall and the earlier we started to realise that the better for everyone to start banking hopes and false positives.

First of all we have no idea if an ETF will be approved this year. It seems people in the know are mostly saying there is no chance of this one being accepted. While regulations have been improving since last year, I'm guessing we'll be waiting at least another year for an ETF. When it does happen, I think an ETF could possibly raise the price of Bitcoin by tens of thousands.

I mean we are likely talking about 10s of billions of dollars - not all at once but over some period of time - which would probably increase the market cap by hundreds of billions of dollars. Then of course there is the hype around an ETF when it gets accepted and the FOMO that will result from the raising price that happens as ETFs get picked up more and more by investors. I could definitely see ETFs being the catalyst for the next boom, though I imagine it would take at least half a year of buildup after being accepted for the ETF to actually exist and people to start putting money into it and for it to really start booming the price.

Also you can be sure when an ETF is accepted smart money from Wall St will likely come flooding in to get in before the ETF money. So I think after an ETF is accepted we could see the next Bitcoin boom perhaps 6 to 12 months later, so next summer maybe would be the next bitcoin boom if this ETF is accepted, but I think its likely we'll be waiting for next year to see if an ETF is accepted.

I think your predictions are way too optimistic. If the ETF has to be backed by actual Bitcoins, it will obviously
cause the influx of additional money into BTC. However, the influx will be nowhere near the amounts that you claim.
Institutional investors are mostly not even allowed to invest in this asset class for various reasons and
therefore couldn´t invest hundreds of billions of dollars even if they wanted too. Besides, most funds
follow certain strategies and don´t simply allocate funds to risky investments like BTC. E.g. a fund that
is mostly invested in stocks from a certain part of the world isn´t going to invest billions of $ into BTC, because
that isn´t even remotely related to their area of expertise.

I´d rather argue that the next block reward halving in 2020 will be the catalyst for the next bull run and the ETF
will be a non-event even if it does get approved.

https://i.imgur.com/GVb9MUG.png

There are also "experts" saying it won't be fantastic as we are hoping to get. I wonder if sometimes people forget to think about the rejection for the ETF, we will maybe see a -20% on the Bitcoin value. I don't know if it's rejected will it boost altcoins? Or will altcoin catch up Bitcoin?
I can say yes or no I have 50% to win but it surely won't make me an expert

Experts? What kind of experts are you talking about? If this information was brought up to you because so many people in the forum was talking about the ETF event that may pump the price of bitcoin and may cause another bull run, I really think it is not a perfect conclusion for some positive event that may pump bitcoin this is only a speculation of many people in the community because some positive outcome happen to bitcoin because of sudden good news like this, But we can not conclude anything like news like this can really affect bitcoin, It can and it can not, Well if there are so much hype about it then we can see a big impact with the value, that is for sure, But if the hype is not so overwhelm, Then it is not an increase that we are so hype about.

It was actually a very funny comment anyway as this shows more of trying to look at the bright side of things than concentrating so much on the negative part, lol. It is one thing to panic because one is in a loss and it is another thing to consider the thing a lot of people see as an issue as a great opportunity. It will be good if bitcoin goes to $20k to $60k, otherwise there will be another buying opportunities. A lot of people have never seen crash as an opportunity but all they focus their mind on is the fear of what they have lost which is because they never had a good reason or a solid reason for which they invested in the first place than to just get rich quickly.

Back to the topic, Winklevolves brothers had started this etf war and I am personally expecting that to happen so that bitcoin may be launched to moon very soon before we all could imagine. If one company start etf of bitcoins then we may expect many others to join the party which may launch bitcoins into million dollar value levels too. Yes, I am not joking, it is high possible when consider the potential of investors who are all looking for new investment opportunities after gold and silver.

Oh my, that so called experts again. Everyone can really be called experts at this market because its based on speculation. But I'm no expert but I think the Bitcoin ETF can really push the price so any levels because it will somewhat gain more trust and investors are going to be confident about it. So why not wait till the SEC makes their decision next month and see if those predictions will happen? Everyone is really excited, but I'm sure that if the outcome is not on our favor, we will hear a lot of negative sentiments again.

read through the decision regarding the Winklevoss rejection today https://www.sec.gov/rules/other/2018/34-83723.pdf

the same applies for any ETF. all applications are toast as far as i can tell. no one can route around these fundamental objections in the near future. i would guess an ETF is many years away, if ever. don't forget the first gold ETF took something like 7 years to get approved and that's a breeze in conception compared to this.

I think if btc ETF approves then more investors are interested to invest in BTC. Hopefully it will just time matters.

Yes I read that CNBC article. At first everybody assumed it was the CBOE ETF rejection and that's what caused the initial sell-off.

This was a proposed rule change which was rejeceted. Honestly I don't think this ETF will ever get approved.

Maybe the CBOE one has a better chance since its geared towards institutional investors, however knowing the way SEC works, it will most likely get delayed or rejected again.

The biggest problem is: " Financial experts "; why? Because it seems to me that these guys are just optimistic and make very high price forecasts because they bought very low and want to have high profits. Because it is not normal the forecasts that they do, see that presently we have a lot of pressure from governments, there are banks that do not accept to do business with exchange, there are china and india that have become enemies of bitcoin, I do not see much demand coming of many countries except the US, Japan, South Korea. So how can they make prediction so optimistic? oh they talk about institutional money, but forget that to enter institutional money we need governments to implement more flexible regulations


the biggest calatizador would be if the banks were more understanding and accepted cryptos and the governments implemented favorable regulations for cryptos

Its been rejected 2 times according to new article from CNBC and Coindesk and it looks like there's no chance to Approve bitcoin ETF this may result of bitcoin drop soon and the market is starting to collapse again.
According to some article the reasons why the proposal of twins about bitcoin ETF is rejected it's because of Off Shore Manipulation.

However, they can still propose on the 3rd time but we can't sure if it can help the bitcoin to increase more its value.

my thoughts exactly.

i'm extremely bearish on ETF applications and their harsh words in this decision seals the deal. how are the vaneck, solidx, etc applications any better regarding things like "market manipulation?" they're not.

it sure sounds like the SEC doesn't want to approve securities tied to unregulated markets dominated by unknown/overseas actors. who would have thought?!?! :P

I have read those news too and I don't know who believe and expect that it's a total FUD, anyway thanks for the link.

As expected, it's better not to put that much hope on this one if this will be approved it will take a lot of years as you've said. And this is the reason why the market has dropped recently.

uh, where's the FUD?

it's written plain as day in an officially issued SEC document.

the reasons are clear enough and i can't see them changing for any other application any time soon.

Man fuck those experts.

The chances of ETF getting approved is lowering by the second. Yeah we can probably see a bull run, if the ETF gets approved. But will it? People are afraid that bitcoin will beat US dollar, and if ETF gets approved, their worries turn from just worries to maybe actual reality. There's a lot going on the US right now, but these ETFs won't be good in a long run if it gets approved. ETFs will fuck the entire sole purpose of bitcoin. That is to eliminate the use of intermediaries. How things change.  :'(

Waoh gold ETF actually took 7 years to get approved? Guess Bitcoin would take longer or shorter as technology advance very rapidly but lets hope for the best!

that is what i have always thought too. i don't see why SEC would approve of ETF now while they have rejected it before and not much has changed but then again you see things like this from SEC Commissioner who wants ETF approved
https://www.sec.gov/news/public-statement/peirce-dissent-34-83723

Without timing this speculation is not very useful. Bitcoin is very likely to eventually reach those levels regardless if there will be ETF or not, and if the ETF get approved, it might rise for other reasons. Imagine if ETF will get approved and launched in the next year and the price will reach $40,000 in 2020 - some people would say that it is thanks to ETF, but there will also be the next halvening in 2020, and LN is going to be released soon, so there can be many factors working together. Also, there were similar predictions with futures, and maybe they were the main cause of 20k rally, or maybe they only helped a little, we can't know for sure without proper study.

she's a noob though. and noobs take a while to get schooled. i think she has many valid points, especially the one about their duty being investor protection, but equally the SEC could tell her they're protecting people by not rubber stamping their exposure to bitcoin markets.

they're always gonna lean towards the conservative end of things so i reckon they'll wait until many other countries and organisations come up with investor options. it's the legal equivalent of amazon taking BTC. they're gonna let all the weird outliers do the hard work and they'll be the last to get on board.

They are clear, but don't stare yourself blind on obvious facts.

I think the biggest obstacle for the SEC isn't exactly the ETF itself, because everything is as tightly packed as they want it to be, but more so the timing. I am sure that if the SEC could pull back its futures to launch them on a different date they would have done it. In other words, the least favorable scenario is another bull run to be initiated in the runup to the actual event, because we know what happens when the news pops up. It results in a hostile market afterwards where as always retail investors lose.

The other ETF's are just trash. They shouldn't even be filled if they don't have the backing of a legacy platform wall street actually can build on.

Theres no doubt that ETF will brimg bitcoin price to the moon or maybe upto universe,but the problem is how big percent that this will be approved?because last year denial is what ETF got so whats the difference now for this to be accepted?


Lets pray that this time approval will be given to ETF as this is the only chance of this market to go bull again

Hi. I think bitcoin can hit 40k$ this year. Can someone please explain me the ETF, what is and how works?

One thing I keep on reading about is, how institutional investors will be able to buy Bitcoin straight off the market, but really, even if these ETFs were backed by true Bitcoin (or actual Bitcoin or however they're being marketed), why couldn't these same guys simply just get it from an exchange? Open a damned Coinbase account if they're in the US, get insurance, and buy their own Bitcoin? I get that some people want to short, but there's already a futures market for that.

Isn't trading on an exchange a far easier process? I get that SEC would regulate these ETFs, is that the real reason? Or what am I missing out on all the hype?

.... Or maybe the rejection of all the ETFs, killing all the hype, could launch Bitcoin to $2K, $4K, $6K! :P


They can. The mindset of these "ETF dreamers" is irrational. Institutional investors who are serious about investing in Bitcoin need spot BTC + custody, not an ETF. ETFs are for speculative trading, like futures.


It's just empty hype. The futures market makes clear that Wall Street isn't interested in speculating on BTC right now. Launching an ETF doesn't magically make Wall Street "long term BTC investors who want to buy ETF shares", which doesn't even make sense anyway......

I do not believe in this kind of thing, even though they are experts but they are not experts in predicting bitcoin prices. no one can predict bitcoin prices.

Upon approval of ETF, financial institutions will start making huge investments, governments will see it as an medium of their interest to increase the wealth, of their country. Media exposure will also help further bring more investor, and all will turn out on a upscale for bitcoin.

As it is evident that Winklevoss Bitcoin ETF is yet again rejected by SEC we still have hopes about the CBOE sponsored ETF and i accept a rally if that is accepted but that does not mean that it will reach these huge valuation in a short period of time, with time we will see these applications accepted but it will take some time, there is no doubt that the price would reach $50k in the future and i am looking for that price in the next five years and not dreaming about it now. :P

Well I think ETF can help the bitcoin to increase the price because many investor will be go here in crypto to make a investment I think it will good for all of us because all of us will be get benefits of this.

Its said that millions of dollars would be poured into bitcoin if ETF gets approved.Even if bitcoin price reaches its previous ATH of 20,000 which was due to bitcoin futures,that would be considered as a great achievement after a long struggle.

I see no harm in this one. BTC are already doing quite well in the market and their demand is still intact and did not budge from its place at all. Even this will be a hit in the market if launched successfully.

maybe in the long run that happens because SEC approving ETF may mean like an approval of bitcoin which can change the minds of many investors and average Joes about bitcoin and put an end to majority of FUDs.
but just because they accept some ETF it doesn't mean millions of dollars is just going to be poured into bitcoin! even the ETF itself has already bought the coins required for it to be traded so that money is already in and people investing in ETF are not investing in bitcoin, they are buying that ETF which won't change bitcoin price at all.

I don't believe just because of ETF bitcoin can soar that up high without supporting good news. We saw that bitcoin can rise freely when Fomo started to hit the market and investors have gain its trust in a bull market. Positive outcome of ETF can make bitcoins up high as 10-12k. IMO.

OK, so I'm not the only one who simply can't get around the reasoning and hype around these ETFs. Like you said, the "serious investors" who want Bitcoin would just get it anyway, and then seek protection (custodian as you say, like a Xapo vault or similar or simply private insurance/assurance). Nothing's stopping them from doing it today, if they really wanted to.

And yeah, if they already want to gamble/speculate, then there's futures also and the contracts already up there shows there's interest, but not to the level we're made to think.

Speculations can come true. Either way BTC is going to be valuable no matter what, those who wait will sow good things.
If it does go up like $40K+ Its good, if not its good still. But I might just move to another place and start my mining farm when the price is going to be $40K. I would have a lot of money to put for my rigs if all things goes well thanks for the ETF approval :)

All the factors depend on ETF approval now. If ETF gets approved, there will be a new vibe in the BTC market of course. BTC will get bigger investors besides it will probably be the incredible coin in 2018. The market will see a great change in values if ETF gets approved.

From my point of view it is happen obliviously  happen. I believe it will approve and many investor invest here in future. The price will go up for sure and investor will make profit. I believe it will happen.

Everyone is expecting the same result from etc approval but I think that it will take some more time to get approved and market will be same

I think so because of its potentialities. Within a short time bitcoin price will rise upto 60k I think and this is possible.  Just focus on your business wait for right time and try to pick the maximus benifit.

ETF is surely going to bring in more investment which can shoot the price. Well, $20k $40k $60k, all are too much an optimism. Bitcoin can cross $k10-$15k short term and $30k mid term that is by year end if ETF launches successfully.

Many experts are also saying that BTC will undergo a huge dump if ETF doesn't happen. We could figure that out by the last time when ETF was in discussion but the disapproval was followed a pretty huge dump.

So, be ready for both scenarios. SEC hasn't provided any signal in that direction. Therefore, everything is under speculation.

Yeah exactly, i have also heard those 65000 predictions, i hope they will be realized in next couple of months, that will definitely help me get out of the financial troubles if btc goes over 50k atleast.

From my point of view it will happen surely. I think if it will approve investor are feel more interest to invest this market. If they will invest this market the price will surely rise and everyone make profit. I believe it will happen soon.

I think this will be a good initiative based on this both may do well for future also price will be increase and when this program will be launch then this market will be benefited and we can see more profit from this market.

Personally, I think that if ETFs get approved in a bull market, then there is every possibility that we'll see some FOMO buying and soaring prices as a result of that.

However, I doubt that it would all of a sudden mean that we'll see a new all time high if the ETF was to be approved during this stretch of bearish market sentiment. Besides, it'll be extremely difficult for any ETF proposals to get approved in the first place based on the precedents set beforehand with the rejection of multiple ETFs.

Honestly, the impact of such approvals are greatly exaggerated. Even if one does get approved, somehow during this bear market, we may see some short term price movements but it wouldn't impact much after the hype is over.

I wouldn't really count on that. The higher the price goes up prior to the moment institutions are allowed to buy into it, the less incentive there will be for them to do so.

It's far more profitable for institutions to massively short the market through CBOE in case the price has gone up significantly, let the price fall down as much as they think is necessary, and then buy into the ETF also through CBOE. We have seen what happened last year when the CME futures market went live during a bull run. Whoever they were, they shorted the crap out of Bitcoin and made millions on the way down.

The best scenario is that the ETF market goes live during a neutral market, but how realistic is that with crypto? ::)

It is clear from vitalik's statement that etf and mass adoption both were must to progress big. Etf could pave path for the investment from large scale investors, and causes immediate price pumping, while the adoption in the low level common people will cause a gradual rise and this is quite strong and never required for the dependence over etf.

ETF would be the way to call the attention of some people and it will cause the pump then and then the price would be sustainable if those retail investors would join in. For now, it is dipping and maybe it is just getting ready for the incoming run then. We should just always plan our trades and have some target prices so that we can secure profits. We need a catalyst because some people got discourage of the previous bear market and for the people to join in again, they should see the price shoot up and get their trust again.

it is true if ETF are approved it will make bitcoin faster to reach the top but rejected ETF may also make bitcoin back down,

A lot of things can affect the market value of Bitcoin not just an ETF but it seems to be one of the most hotly anticipated or over hyped events

For example the CBOE ETF application received an unexpected amount of support from investors so the interest is definitely there

It's unlikely that an approval would have a negative impact on the price ;D

bitcoin etf could hoot the price of bitcoin to the moon, but we may have to wait till January before we see the first approval of any one.