Bitcoin Forum

Seriously... we've seen MtGox stop trading all together at least once (I think maybe even twice, that I recall) to let the market "cool down."

So I can't understand why they didn't just halt trading until the withdrawal issue is fixed.  This seems almost criminal in my mind.

Am I missing something?

everyone cried when trading was halted as i recall.

damned if you do, damned if you don't....

I know I didn't, so it's not everyone!

"How can we fuck each other hard and fast if you take the exchange down?" - traders, 2000forever

becase this time the "karp of gox street" needs to buy some cheap coins to arbitrage while everyone else has to sit around and watch him get fatter.

hehe. true dat !

Because, back then, they were trying to stop people from selling BTC, i.e, prevent the free market from operating, while now, they're not halting trading although they're reporting an incorrect price for BTC, primarily bcz what they're selling off isn't BTC, its BTC IOUs based on a failing exchange. So, effectively what they're doing is selling high-yield junk-bonds for BTC, claiming its BTC, which is disrupting the free market.

Think about it.  If you halt trading and withdrawals, your customers really are trapped.  They'd have lawyers barking up their asses in no time.  This at least gives them the impression of some freedom.  Also, and most importantly, the exchange would bring in no money while trading is halted.

When you think about it, this is an incredibly clever move on Gox's part, at least in the short term.  You've got a bunch of frenzied traders beating the crap out of each other and Gox harvests the spilled blood.  Only Gox insiders can withdrawal to arbitrage, and I guarantee you they have.  Who the hell do you think gets to "beta test" these changes?  MK's cronies.  This is little more than a swindle, whether it was intentionally done or not.

The biggest problem cryptos face isn't technological hurdles, it is human meddling.  Technology will eventually grow to a point where it is insulated from such factors, but it will take many years of evolutionary code changes.

I also think they actually deliberately making their statements vague and delays long - since they are lacking funds they want the price to be as low as possible *to get as much money in as possible* when they reopen withdrawals, everyone would try to arbitrage, and they will have a hard limit on withdrawals (and open end on deposits I assume), so they will be able to fill their coffers and start paying out bit by bit. Otherwise, they'd go broke in twenty minutes.

The fact that they severely damage bitcoin's public image once again because idiots would quote their price from now on in their "OMG CRASH FRMO 1200 TO 100" idiotic articles - doesn't seem to bother Karpeles much. Or he has no other choice, again, an incompetent dick that he is.

Also, if they do turn out to be insolvent (which I believe is unlikely), their fiat obligations to creditors are much less now.  If you're on the brink of insolvency, it makes sense to crash the value of your debt obligations, if possible.  For Gox, it was as easy as disabling withdrawals.

+1

This is the main theory still? Is there actual proof that mtgox lost coins to transaction malleability?  Or did they lose them some other way?

I'm trying to be objective in this thread.  All my questions are genuine.  I try to keep abreast the best I can but there's simply too much information (and misinformation) spread all over the forum and web.  I stay pretty busy so it can be a little challenging to stay up to date.  Currently I have quite a bit tied up in gox.  

My understanding is Gox came under fire when they blamed the developers and the developers blamed gox.
Then the developers admitted that Gox makes a case, but that their code is still out of date?
This way other exchanges were able to protect themselves and implement fixes?
But because mtgox code was so old/complex/etc it's taking them more time?  
Did mtgox help prevent damage on other exchanges/services?  Is it at all likely they are trying their best to resolve the issue?

All we have is conjecture. Gox fails at informing it's customers about what is actually happening as badly as they fail on the technical side of things.

No, not that. No matter how complex the code fix (and it isn't in this case - it's rather trivial, just check if the actual coins have been transferred or not if the transaction is marked as failed / double spend) it should not have taken longer than a week to fully implement, test, and release. So no, at that point it is pretty clear they are not trying their best, and malleability was just a cover-up for the actual fuck-up, which is a business falling apart. I assume, after they failed to fix their  fiat withdrawals for half a year and lost majority of the business.

What I find really strange and I am surprised nobody picked up on that. Why did the Gox price tank 2 hours prior to the announcement concerning the security issues. If this is not some insider trading I do not know what is.

Because he needs to buy cheap coins so he can reopen withdrawals for coins he is missing and make some more money over that  ;)

Simple: Because they take a cut of both sides of every trade.

Could be true, but who is the big bot seller (Willy)? Gox?

You are right. And the most unbelievable thing is that mtgox is golden member of bitcoin foundation. They should shoot it out at light speed now because of the way they "managed" all this issue.

Bunch of incompetent clowns.

That said, nobody keeps out of my mind that this is a big manipulation to low the price down. Now the question is:

1 - to buy veeeeeeery cheap
2 - to destroy trust in cryptos

In both cases I guess bankers have something to do with all this  ;D

This

volume shot up 10x from 2k to 20k, all those people jumping to turn there Goxcoin to Gox$$$ that they cannot get out ??, right before an announcement that should of confirmed resuming BTC withdraws but didn't.  ???

Whatever way I try to make sense of it, I cant. It's almost like Gox is actively engaged in a scorched earth policy to destroy themselves.

Possible, but more likely the work of insiders who had advance knowledge of the content of the official statement.

Right now MtGox reminds of a casino poker table where no one can add or subtract money.  All the players are madly playing away and wondering why everyone is going broke: all the money's going in the rake no matter what happens.

MtGox would be stupid to halt trading.  For one thing, it's still a massive profit center for them.  It would also cause instant panic as it would look like MtGox has stolen all the funds.  Keeping GoxCoins trading is the best they can do at this point.

Because they have turned the corner and become scammers.

90% drop and no trade halt? That tells you something about Mark's mindset.

Trading curbs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trading_curb

"Since over 50% of all trades on the NYSE are program trades, this curb was supposed to limit volatility by mitigating the ability of automated trades to drive stock prices down via positive feedback."


Regulation can be good. Fear creates illogical behaviour, which can do irreparable damage. A little time will allow people to see some sense.

A good analogy is someone impulsively trying to commit suicide, though it is their free will and right to do it, sometimes it would be desirable to forcibly stop them trying to do it, in order that they have some time to become rational and make a more considered decision.

Because Mark gotta buy all up all his customers coins. Then he will stop trading & shut up shop.

It's fucking criminal.

Their trading platform is fundamentally broken the minute they stopped withdrawals. Allowing trading to continue was only going to end up one way, that is the price is going to plummet. Guess who's in a position to buy them up and make a huge profit when the price jumps back up?

If you can't withdraw your coins for more than 24hrs the platform should be suspended. Simple.

There's a million and one conspiracy theories on this forum.
How about this one...

1. Gox really did have a bug in their bitcoin software.
2. They need to fix it like they said they do - and need to stop withdrawals to fix it.
3. 99% of bitcoin investors are either paranoid freaks or paranoid fat cats and so they all freaked and decided to sell loads of their coins - because they all read way too much into the hype and hysteria.
4. The price on Gox therefore tanked.
5. They will fix the bug and go right back to where they were before this happened.

Hmmm... almost tooooo simple?

So there ARE people on here who have the same train of thought as me!
to coin a phrase, "A watched pot never boils". In this case though, its damn hard not to stare, and I have to admit, the price drop is slightly stomach churning In a couple weeks time, hopefully, all of this will be fixed and the only thing in tatters will be gox's reputation and not users $ or BTC.

Gox has the benefit of uncertainty but their behaviour should ring alarm bells with anyone.
If they really cared about customers they'd do anything in their power to stop the FUD.
If indeed they are solvent and all is "fine" their current price level may severely damage customers selling at that price point.
As you state this whole fiasco will damage gox's reputation, probably beyond repair.

The question is how will the gox team handle this sinking ship (because thats whats happening here regardless of whether the funds are there or not).
During times of crisis the worst can be brought out in people

Gox is out of touch and bad at communicating, but I see no reason at all to suspect insolvency or any underhandedness. They may have gotten some money stolen, and it could be a lot, but there's no particular reason to believe it's to the point of insolvency, any more than that it's trivial. They would need to carefully recount everything in either case before reopening access.

Note that SEPA and yen withdrawals seem to be working basically fine. It seems like 90% of the hysteric posts are unaware of this basic fact. MtGox isn't a black hole; plenty of money is flowing out, even if a few weeks delayed.

The market places odds at 75 to 80% that they'll never reopen BTC withdrawals, but that seems ridiculously low to me. Time to make some money on people's hysteria ;D

I knew I wasn't the only one with an under developed panic gland.