Bitcoin Forum

I happen to be in a group that has to be with Bitcoin or cryptocurrencies in general. There was an argument recently, for and against, about the fact that non-existence (if possible) of Bitcoin would render or make Ethereum (and other altcoins) useless.
The stronger argument which is for Bitcoin had it that if it happens that there was no Bitcoin again, other coins/tokens would also stop having values. They might justify this because bearish trend in Bitcoin affects almost all other, and for other related reasons.

In my own knowing, I knew that Bitcoin came on the scene the first, and that the idea of it inspired Ethereum second, which gave platform for many Ethereum-based tokens, and there are also other platform-based tokens also like Wave, Stellar, etc
Could all of these starting from Ethereum still exit or useful if Bitcoin wouldn't be any more?
The answer to me is in affirmative, but can anyone lecture on why not?
Insightful answers please.

Other coins and tokens hugely rely on bitcoin's price. If bitcoin goes crashing down to triple digits, the cryptocurrency market as a whole will definitely be hugely affected, but it doesn't mean other coins/tokens will be render them useless. It's just that they will be extremely cheap.

If bitcoin goes to $100, it's still the same bitcoin that can be transacted freely. Same with ETH and other non-crap coins/tokens.

Price =/= utility

majority of altcoins serve one purpose and that is to generate money for their investors aka speculators. with or without bitcoin they may exist because pump and dumps don't just go away. people are making a lot of money from them! besides they are mostly useless already if you don't count what i just said as their usage.

ethereum is in no way "second" it is after at least a couple of thousands of different altcoins!

that is the only reason ETH exists and the only reason it is this pumped up. because it offered a very easy way of creating tokens out of thin air which you could offer in an ICO and earn a shitload of money. so it attracted thousands of scammers and people who wanted easy free money to itself.

there was a topic that was deleted because OP of it was advertising shitcoins, in there he was insisting that ICOs are "solving problems". i asked him to provide an example of at least one and he failed. i ask you again. what is the usage of Ethereum? creating ICOs. what is the usage of ICOs? what have they solved? nothing. prove me wrong!

I disagree with this statement.
The whole purpose of ethereum is NOT to creat ICOs.

The real purpose is to be able to create small programs (smart contracts) which can be executed without a central authority.
Just because the majority of people are using them to simply create ICOs where they just build some kind of a payment token and promise a lot of utility, this doesn't describe the usage/purpose of ethereum itself.
Most people are greedy. Thats the reason we have so much shitcoins and tokens now. They all just want to make fast money.
But this does no way mean that the whole ethereum network has been made for this one purpose.


@OP
I think it heavily depends on the reason for BTC going down.
If it would be because of a security vulnerability, the chances of ALL cryptos going down would be very high, IMO.

sometimes someone chooses a coin which they think has more functions than BTC, for example ETH
but please note, that BTC can never be replaced its position, because the embryo of cryptocurrency is from BTC
the cryptocurrency symbol is bitcoin, BTC is only one, and ALTCOIN is a lot and only as a complement

Pretty much. Just because it's currently mostly being used for ICOs it doesn't automatically mean it was made for that sole purpose. It's just like saying bitcoin is being bought solely for speculation and not for transactions(which what it was made for).

actually altcoins are pretty much good now and can be used as long-term investments even though not a few altcoins make many unsympathetic. if bitcoin is clearly still the best and certainly also ith ethereum.

Bitcoin is not only the first cryptocurrency, it's much more than that. Bitcoin represents cryptocurrencies as a concept. If Bitcoin, for whatever reason, disappeared, the whole cryptocurrency ecosystem would disappear as well, for the simple reason that cryptos would no longer be reliable. It would not be the failure of a coin, it would be the failure of an idea.

I'm sorry I could not agree with you. Because Bitcoin is a coin whose radiant power covers the entire market. With its ups and downs, the whole market shone with it. Because when the price increases, the price of the whole market including the ETH increases and the price of other coins decreases and decreases. Yes Ethereum usage has increased but Ethereum / Altcoins can not be worth more than Bitcoin.

In 2013 that would definitely have been the case. these days i'm not so sure.

if bitcoin died from attacks or became too broken to continue everything else would take a huge hit and there'd be years in the doldrums but many of those coins would not be broken and the concept would live on through them. they would take the lessons that ended bitcoin on board and make sure it didn't happen to them.

bitcoin is the reference coin for all alts when it comes to trading and pricing. i don't believe an alt could ever take that place. i do believe a fully legit USD pegged token could.

well at this point the altcoin market pretty much exists on its own. and it exists so that traders have a place to go to and earn money. it may as well not even be called altcoin market and they may not even be trading altcoins that exist (which happens to be the case sometimes! people trade altcoins that  don't even have a functioning blockchain anymore!!!). so with or without bitcoin this broken market would still exist.

Whether we like it or not cryptocurrency is a market that it's fate is highly dependent on Bitcoin. Though some might argue it. Bitcoin is what have been controlling every altcoins in the market and still very good at doing that. Let's look at the current face of the market today. Why we are in this mess now is because of bitcoin, reaching a 20k mark and dropping sharp to 5k there by slaughtering all altcoins and leaving some lifeless. If this continues some alts will definitely seize to exist. Bitcoin dictates all and there is no cryptocurrency without bitcoin.

I just can say, their price depends on BTC price on a huge basis.

Actually all the investors just look at the bitcoin price as a sign of investment time so they will invest and sell their holding when ups and downs happens respectively.But there is no reason that it has to be like that forever maybe in future the prices maybe valued based on the utility of the coins so if some coin created which can excel the usage of bitcoin then it can have high value than bitcoin.But in my opinion it will never happen bitcoin will be the best always.

my answer is no, as it is pretty sure the bitcoin trust will not switch to Ethereum if for example the bitcoin does not exist.
as well as other altcoins, all depend on BTC.

It seems the coins and tokens go up and down in value together. BTC goes up the go up BTC goes down and so do they. It is a trend. I hope one day currencies will be more independent of one another and that can only be accomplished by giving people more ways to spend it on everyday items.

Ether isn't going anywhere, look where it is right now with the smart contract and tokens on the rise that all require eth as gas fee. Eth has a very good reason to exist.

At the moment, bitcoin leader is among all the cryptocurrencies and they can be said to be repulsed from him. It would be hard to say if other cryptocurrencies were in demand without bitcoin. I think this is quite possible, but it's still difficult to imagine the world of cryptocurrencies without bitcoin.

ICO's aren't even the most interesting examples of hat can be done with Ethereum. You can build entire decentralized applications on the Ethereum chain.
Now I would argue that there are actually better platforms for that, but it's certainly possible with ETH.

I think that if Bitcoin loses dominance, it would only affect prices for a relatively short time and the market would shift towards another coin.

All the altcoins, as well as Ethereum, is in a way or another, dependent on BTC as BTC is a dominant coin in the cryptocurrency market. Ethereum is no new, it is also affected by BTC price. But every coin has its sovereignty. Its value may go ups and downs but when it is only $1 worth, it can perform its functions thoroughly.

People use ALTcoins for various purposes but most of the ALTcoin owners usually convert ALTs to BTC which just shows how much trust they have on ALTs. If you don't believe, see the recent scenario when Bitcoin went up to 8,200$ the whole ALT market crashed and now again it's recovering. I don't think it will survive without BTC.

It is simple that who is the first one exist will be the source of everything. And because the bitcoin is the first ever crypto currency created, of course the following crypto currency existance are depending on the first crypto currency, the idea of the first crypto may adopted by the second one or third one, meaning without the first one, these two or three newly exist are nothing. Although let says project created with products then its created under crypto currencies, of course the price of it are depending on the price of the main crypto currency. It cannot be change with the original crypto which is bitcoin. Thats why altcoins will not exist without bitcoin.

In general, I think that without bitcoin, no altcoins will be valuable. bitcoin in my understanding is the dollar for the currencies

we all know bitcoin is the king of all the coins , without it i dont think any coin will be much valuable than in the market .so i can say it is bit coin that makes all this coin valuable and it has been like this since it inception

Ethereum and other alt coins are quite dependent on bitcoin. It means if bitcoin falls these alt coin will have a big effect because of it. But i don't think they will be useless of disappeared.

We all agree that btc is the king of crypto world and there will be some impact on other alt coins as well of btc price is effected. So I would completely agree there will be some impact for sure the only thing is pump and dump issue will be there forever. So even btc also acts as a transacting currency hence the major importance as well. Still I see btc only reaching new levels rather than dropping more.

Bitcoin is now a symbol of cryptocurrency because it is the first crypto, but it wouldn't last forever as other projects are developing now and can bring more value than Bitcoin.

Actually without the existence of bitcoin those kind of coins can function more and be more valuable. The only thing that hinders them to reach there potential is bitcoin itself. I do believe that without bitcoin they can function and doI what they want. Lastly for sure the current users of bitcoin will use them as bitcoin is not existing.

yes, they will have a bigger value. right now BTC is dictates the prices and everithing

Not really. If the first one has flaws that needs to be fixed and a second thing was able to fix that and was able to market better, the second one will get the throne.

Altcoins are essentially just copies of bitcoin but serves a different purpose and a different market. You can think of it as a way to have subcategories for people. So we can be grouped in different ways. Each coin has a community supporting it. Each coin has its ecosystem.

Not necessarily. Let's say that the price of an altcoin is $10 in fiat, if the price of bitcoin moves, you'd see that the price of altcoins in exchange of bitcoin also moves. But if you convert it to fiat, it's still around $10. It's one of the reasons why the price of altcoins goes down in exchange of bitcoin whenever bitcoin's price has increased. All along with the reason that people with altcoins are selling their coins in exchange of bitcoin to (a.) ride the pump (b.) not ride the dip of the altcoin (c.) sell in exchange of fiat.

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On the other hand, altcoins aren't really relevant because of bitcoin. It can exist without Bitcoin existing. Bitcoin can go down and an altcoin can be not affected by it. It's the beauty of cryptocurrencies. One currency is not dependent of the other.

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I believe that those altcoins will be still valuable even without the existence of bitcoin because first of all they havedifferent strengths or features that make them unique and thus be patronized by users. We should not underestimate  their power especially leading cryptos already proved their greatness. Bitcoin will more as a pioneer of cryptocurrencies but not always the basis of the rising alts.

Though ALTcoin or Ethereum is a totally different crypto and they have their own feature which is not similar to bitcoin but I think they can not relevant without bitcoin.

I think altcoins are pretty much fine now and it can be used for long term investments although not a few altcoins make a lot of unsympathetic. But I think bitcoin is still best also paly role as a market leader.

Well, I believe that each and every coin has its own philosophy and that's how it works. Bitcoin came up with the solution for the issue of time/cost consuming centralized payment system. On the other hand, Ethereum is solving the issue of traditional contracts through its ability of smart contracts. Even though it is true that Bitcoin gained momentum due to the first move in the market, things are not interrelated and thus I don't think that anything happening with BTC will affect altcoins directly.

I believe that without bitcoin the market of crypto currency is nothing. It has been experienced from the past that price of altcoins move as per the movement in the price of bitcoin. Bitcoin is the leader and without it market will fall.

Mainly BTC is the 1st crypto currency in the world we saw in past that the price of btc is very important to other coins based on this if this coin is infected then most of the coins are getting infected for price even ETH.

From my opinion, alt coins can survive without bitcoin. Maybe any other coin will take place of bitcoin. But i think cryptocurrency will lose people’s trust if bitcoin falls.

It will be a tough time for crypto world if bitcoin is destroyed or disappeared. I think all other alt coins follows the trend of bitcoin so many coins will be destroyed with it.

Correct, Bitcoin is acting as the default liquidity asset and therefore also acting as the index for the while crypto industry. If Bitcoin falls, so does everything else. Unless some other coins replaces Bitcoin as the default liquidity (the coin with the most liquidity). I think LTC, BCH and ETH falls into the description.

Okay so the against argument that I understand here is that bitcoin gives value to other cryptocurrencies. Not in the usual sense that cryptos follow bitcoin's trends, but that bitcoin provides a figurative backing to other cryptos. People measure the worth of altcoins in terms of bitcoins and because it was the first to emerge and the market leader it drives people towards other currencies. Which is an interesting thing to note, that a decentralized coin gives value and security(figuratively) to other altcoins.

Having said that my answer will also be that at this moment the crypto market is highly diverse and self-sustainable. It is way to expansive, that even if bitcoin collapses or disappears, after an initial shock, it would still survive.

ICO solve a lot of practical issues. As is known, blockchein technology is very well used for secure and open storage of large databases, this has been successfully applied in ICO projects. The simplest example. Prior to the appearance of the corresponding ICO, merchant ships were transporting a certain product to the destination and, as a rule, returned empty. Using blockchein technology, ICO has connected shippers and merchant ships around the globe into a single database, where everyone can go in and use information about the relevant passing cargo or vice versa, about a ship that can take a load of goods along the way. This is provided by the ICO team, which provides the opportunity to carry out related transactions for the transportation of such passing goods through smart contracts. It is fast, convenient and profitable for everyone. Saves a lot of time and money.

Most probably not. We all need a standardize method to measure others. I think BTC will always remain there to be the standard crypto and not going to collapse any soon. But your thinking is legit and appreciable.

Bitcoin and Etherum are not a standard gauge for buying another Altcoin, we see more and more coins appear to be standardized like Binance Coins, USDT, TrueUSD. These types of coins do not have to be high or low.

Today bitcoin is the logotype of all crypto currency. If they talk about crypto-currencies, it's necessarily about bitcoin. The popularity of bitcoin is evident today. But as for other projects, it seems to me that they also can have value without bitcoin.

If Bitcoin disappeared now the world will think this is the end of cryptocurrencies because it is that important to the cryptocurrency market which is why Bitcoin price variations effect other currency prices due to its important role in the trading market and the image it has in front of the common and financial public.

For the very first I can say that I cannot imagine the cryptocurrency world without bitcoin it is the same as to say that worldwide currency would function without dollars, it is insane for now, maybe in future.

In my opinion the alts are very dependent on bitcoin, bitcoin slipping, and 80% of them are affected. But they still play the role of normal trading. Its worth it too cheap.

I wouldn't want to think of the cryptocurrency world without bitcoin, but in a case where it happens that it ceases to exist, I think that ethereum and other altcoins will still succeed. While the process might be challenging and probably more difficult for them, at the end, they will scale through, and do just fine without Bitcoin. So yeah, altcoins would still be relevant without bitcoin.

Other currencies like Ethereum stellar would exist in the world without Bitcoin but without these kind of demands that currently they posses because Bitcoin has taken the world attention  as a cryptocurrency immensely as the first virtual currency so others cryptocurrencies didn't have to bare that much of weight during the launching so for other currencies to exist Bitcoin existence is essential   

There won't be any cryptocurrency without Bitcoin because it is the first to introduce the digital currency concept to the world and then new currencies like Ethereum, NEO and other followed and more and more coming to the crypto world every year but it all started from invention of Bitcoin so it is significant to the cryptocurrency world   

Now ethereum and other altcoin still dependent on bitcoin. When bitcoin price goes down so does altcoin. Its so hard to replace or even level to bitcoin right now. But I think if ever bitcoin happen to crash down I think altcoin can definitely useable as replacement to continue crypto currency.

Every altcoin are dependent on bitcoin. Anything that happens to bitcoin will effect on altcoins either positively or negatively because bitcoin controls the crypto market. So,  altcoins will not be valuable if bitcoin is not vice versa.

It can be and Ethereum/Altcoins will be valuable or Relevant without Bitcoin but it might take more years for them to achieve such vision in this world because as the first digital currency in the world Bitcoin was able to face every political, Economical and social problem from the rest of the world and expand all over the world so other currencies didn't have much problems or didn't need much effort to introduce them self as cryptocurrencies because Bitcoin did all of that and that is the reason even other currencies can exist without Bitcoin the demand and users they have gained today will be absent without Bitcoin     

It hunk it would be too soon to think that alts can survive without BTC. They are still dependent on Bitcoin - but in the next years only few alts will survive and then we can talk again.

How could an altcoin without bitcoin be valuable?
The beginnings that live are bitcoin, so that is impossible. But ethereum became an altcoin that was able to accompany bitcoin with this best-selling platform in ico.

It's possible if you have seen the fundamental support of ethereum. Some countries have been using it to create their dapps on the ethereum platform while they can't do that on the bitcoin network. This gives the different value to the ethereum and how the ethereum manufacture can be used by so many parties. this will give ethereum a value even there will be no bitcoin.

Altcoin without Bitcoin is like the people left by the leader. They are still alive but their position will not be strong. Because they are weak, they will be left by investors. Because in my opinion the center of crypto trading is bitcoin.

The crypto currency has been based on bitcoin as all exchanges will convert all prices with reference to bitcoin. Any downfall of bitcoin price will affect all crypto and this proves that altcoins will not survive without bitcoin.

I think they would be since bitcoin is the reason that these coins are in the market anyway. Imagine if a coin like bitcoin ends up dying out, that would be a disaster for all of the coins since no one would trust cryptocurrencies if it turns out that its best coin ended up dying out. So no they would not be relevant if bitcoin were no longer here.

Actually each coins were working on their own platform so if there is some coin not present the other coins can do its work but lets think practically bitcoin is the coin which makes the people to invest on the crypto currencies if the bitcoin lost its value then they will invest?!

Though the price of most altcoin depends on the price of bitcoin as it is the oldest but I believe in the long run after some few years, this altcoins will also be very potential and they will be able to stand on their own and control their own price.

Today bitcoin is the trademark of each crypto up-to-dateness. If they chatter any crypto-currencies, it's entails any bitcoin. The repute of bitcoin is detectable these existences. But as championing unlisted layout, it non-standard in to me that they furthermore can corner payment without bitcoin.

Nothing wont valuable or relevant without Bitcoin not even Ethereum because we all know Bitcoin was the first to start this crypto currency game in the world by introducing the frst virtual currency and the name decentralized was introduced to the world with Bitcoin so after its success many tried to followed the same path and that is why we see huge amount of digital currencies in the world with different names and features but all of them started with Bitcoin 

I haven't actually imagined the cryptocurrency world without Bitcoin, and I do not think that it would ever come a time when Bitcoin would seize to exist, but if that ever gets to happen, I think that these altcoins would still find a way to survive regardless. They might suffer and struggle for sometime, but after then, they would bounce back up and stand on their own.

Oh yeah they'll survive but how long they will survive after bitcoin had gone? As a matter of fact, eventually they'll die since investors had loss their trust to crypto currency. Whether we like it or not, investors always rely on bitcoin preposition in the market while altcoins are being judge by its true purpose. Nothing more, nothing less.

Disclaimer: Nothing can replace bitcoin. ( *face palm )

They will be affected badly if something bad happens to bitcoins. Even though ETH or any other coins are popular, these coins rely on BTC. If the prices go up, these coins are used to be exchanged with BTC. If the price f BTC goes down, these coins bleed too.

It is very sad if Ethereum has decreased the price and it must continue to develop.
Bitcoin should not drop its price because the effects of Bitcoin all have decreased in price.

Bitcoin is the father of other coin which means is the base for all other coin if bitcoin have problem it woll surely affect other altcoin.

I absolutely doubt that, indeed the altcoin market value until today is still highly affected by bitcoin price, but that does not mean these altcoins has no independence of their market value. As we know like other commodity or stock the value of crypto is determined  by how their project/product developed, adopted and utilized in mainstream and crypto business. As far as I know each altcoin like Ethereum, Stellar, Ripple and etc has their own independence project/product that do not have any connection and not depend on bitcoin, so if Bitcoin gone it might still affect the market value of altcoins but it won't make them completely lost their relevant or market value.

There is sidechain of bitcoin from blockstream announced and smart-contracts on bitcoin from RSK are near, so it's big question about alts value.

I think ethereum and altcoins can stand on there own and remain relevant in the market without bitcoin!  Though most of the depend on bitcoin but that do not mean there cannot stand on there own. Remember that there time that ethereum do get pump on it own without the help of bitcoin.