Bitcoin Forum

Goldman & Sachs are at it again. They just love bashing anything that doesn't seem to fit into their economic model of "make the rich richer and the poor poorer".



    "Our view that cryptocurrencies would not retain value in their current incarnation remains intact and, in fact, has been borne out much sooner than we expected," the team lead by chief investment officer Sharmin Mossavar-Rahamani said.

    "We expect further declines in the future given our view that these cryptocurrencies do not fulfill any of the three traditional roles of a currency: they are neither a medium of exchange, nor a unit of measurement, nor a store of value."



https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-08-04/bitcoin-battered-back-below-7000-goldman-expects-further-declines


But there is some good news at least on the Starbucks front:


“As the flagship retailer, Starbucks will play a pivotal role in developing practical, trusted and regulated applications for consumers to convert their digital assets into US dollars for use at Starbucks. As a leader in Mobile Pay to our more than 15 million Starbucks Rewards members, Starbucks is committed to innovation for expanding payment options for our customers.”

Yeah it's kind of surprising how easily the market is influenced by such ridiculous news. And then people think that the whole price of Bitcoin depends on this piece of news or that piece of news in order to rise again. Personally I'm really getting tired of people asking when the ETF date is, like that's what everything hinges on.

We shouldn't even be reacting to these types of events the mainstrem media generates just to manipulate prices anymore. No matter what they try, it will only be temporary. They can't stop people from using bitcoin.

Lucky for us, we do not care what our competition think about our technology. You cannot expect Goldman & Sachs to come

out in favour of their competition.. right? They will use all the dirty tricks in the book, to sabotage Bitcoin and that includes

sabotaging them around every corner. One of these are statements like this and even trying to copy cat the technology and

calling it their own.  ;D ;D ;D ;D  It is hilarious to see, to what levels these desperate companies will stoop to retain their

control and dominance in the financial sector.  ::)

Interesting thread. Bitcoin users need to rise above arrogant elitist manipulation. Bitcoin is here to disrupt, change, and rise. A new economic order is on her way, in these forums I hear her breathing.

that is hardly the reason in my opinion because this news came out late and price was already on a small downtrend before it. not to mention that it really ins't such a big bad news targeting bitcoin. it is focusing on "cryptocurrency" in general which mostly includes altcoins which i even partly agree with since they are really useless!

It is definitely and obviously that those are manipulating the prices but we as employee here need to just try to adapt to that, otherwise the other option would be to become a whale. Which is not so easy btw :)

Elite manipulation is something there has been from the very beginning and currently we cannot do anything about it since majority of the community is dancing to their tune. However, news like ICE partnering up with Microsoft and Starbucks is something that the crypto scene should be excited about.

It is impossible to understand what this company is. One explanation goes against the other. Is there no manager at the head of this company?

Goldman and Sachs are not understanding or more appropriate to say they denying the fact that crypto market have a great potentiality in future. Many like them are saying that crypto currency doesn’t have the features that an accurate currency should have.

I think those who are passionate about cryptocurrency, will ignore these statements. They just spread negativity which is unacceptable.

Goldman Sachs is made up of what must be tens of thousands of people. No doubt someone else there will pop along with an opinion that overturns that soon enough.

By this stage of the game I really don't see why any old finance person bothers weighing in on the future of crypto when they had absolutely nothing to do with its creation or rise. They should put a sock in it and sit back and watch.

And if they're bright they'll have some provision in place if it goes where many of us expect it to. I'm sure there are many mind blowing projects and plans joints like this will unveil when the tide turns. They're not stupid.

It’s a interesting thread. The users of bitcoin need to rise above arrogant manipulation. Its here to disrupt and also rise. A new order is ongoing also hear peoples brething.

This is an opinion contrary to the cryptos, not unique, but that increasingly contains less adepts. It is normal for banks to be against this financial revolution, but some are gradually realizing that it is better to paddle in favor of the tide than against. This GS guy will deeply regret this statement.

This is definitely not something to be concerned of. However, we cannot always stop everyone from panicking. These sort of news are why the market gets manipulated but we also need to know which news to believe in and the Starbucks news is related to their recent partnering up with ICE and Microsoft and I feel like this should be the news that the community should focus in.

Isnt this a similar line as that stated by the Dutch Central Bank? Which was reported
in this thread > https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4812006.msg43440013#msg43440013ThePetra Hielkema, the Division

Director Payments and Market Infrastructure at the Dutch Central Bank stated:

    “If something wants to be treated as money, you have to be able to spend, save and calculate with it.”

Looks like they are trying to use the same ammunition. These statements by
people looking to damage Bitcoin will be ignored by us who see potential,
useability and value in Bitcoin. Their statements will only reach so far.
We had these attacks throughout 2017 but we are still here.

It is better to not pay heed to these news. They are just making the headlines for the sheer reason of seeding panic among us, because crypto has made a huge contribution in bridging the rich poor gap, which they simply detest.

I think users of BTC should rise above arrogant elitist manipulation. Who knows maybe a new economic order is coming.

I used to get annoyed when reading articles like this as it’s so obvious the reasons they are doing it but now I just find it amusing.  Looking forward to what they are all going to say in 5 years when it’s got a lot more adoption and they explain why they are heavily invested 😂

There are people, even the famous ones who will not favour the crypto market, for the sole purpose that it will be the reason to reduce the rich poor gap of the countries. This will seize them of their power and they will make claims to plant fear among the people. Avoiding such news is the better and wiser option.

It only has an effect on us if we let it do so. Goldman has demonstrated yet again that they clearly have no idea about crypto and are envious about those that do. They want to appear as an authority on the subject but they can only make shallow remarks that don't have any depth to them or validity if you look at the fundamentals.

I find it hard to understand why they think they have the answers. It sounds like they're actually afraid of the potential of crypto and have to make cheap shots in order to try and look good. Oh well...

who can deny this? they are very correct if you really think about it. there are nearly 2000 altcoins and tokens in the market these days and these two statements are 100% correct about 99.99% of them. if you think otherwise then show us cases where these shitcoins are being used as a tradition sense of a "currency"! none of them have any use case apart from some old ones such as Litecoin but even that is not even big enough to be considered enough number of use cases.

the only thing that remains is bitcoin and when they talk about "cryptocurrencies" in general they are rarely talking about bitcoin. and we already know that bitcoin has the "actual use case as a currency" and you can find thousands of examples by doing a quick search on the internet.

What they say is just another good example of war against everything new and revolutionary, which is brought by blockchain and bitcoin in particular.

  "these cryptocurrencies ... are not a store of value."

The main goal of cryprocurrencies is that they provide a kind of self-control of the whole system - nothing can be altered in blockchain.
In my opinion, this is the greatest value of crypto together with anonymyty and decentralization.

The stock exchange is also subject to manipulation, not by whales, but by the media, the world economy and governments.

Thank you for example.
I think that we have a lot manipulation every day, specially in media or by politicians.
All of them wants to influence us in certain way.
In the market is worse manipulation, I think.
''Big players'' see great potential in crypto market and they manipulate a lot, by bad news, market speculations etc.
It's very easy to be confuse here.

Sadly people does not understand these price manipulation and falls victim to it. The one who are publicly showing hatred towards crypto currencies are actually the one who privately invests on these coins after causing price dip by confusing the naive general people. Funny things is they remain dormant for a while and then rises all of a sudden to show hatred towards the coin.

I think that while the market is raw, and many are waiting for the decision of the authorities, the price will grow only after replacing people's thinking

this market is a good example on his own, ever incidents here inspired the users to trust the market but some news also fall bad impact and influence the users so I hope we will use our own mind to jugde it

Yeah that's true, but it affected the price of bitcoin quite badly right when they said this. I agree that most cryptocurrencies are just garbage scams trying to milk a few extra bucks out of unsuspecting noobs who think that every ICO is an opportunity to make a million. It's not even worth spending your time trying to figure out which one is legit anymore.

I just don't want to see anymore major talking down of bitcoin because we know it has more value than it is supposed to have. It lost momentum after last December but that should be coming back up soon.

People easily react every news about this market and that is why big people see this as a big opportunity for them to make more money but I know they will still not win in the long run because they cannot stop this market from getting the new peak again. Its just sad that the victim of their greediness is the small investors, I hope this can be stop when regulations in every country happen.

We all know that the Elites are playing with us and still we are putty in their hands and they are manipulating the hell out of Bitcoin. We know this yet everyone is panic selling left, right and center. Where are your ideals? Where are all those people who stood for decentralization and freedom? I hardly see any of them around except a bunch of day traders and speculators, nothing else. Those with ideals have long gone I guess. I think it's a shame that we are not untied and banded together against this big FUD machine and Price SUPPRESSING mechanism. Same people that panic sell will be back in FOMO mode when it's too late.

you can never stop the FUD from coming out and the FUD is not only coming out for bitcoin it is like this for any other market too even the stocks market even though market manipulation is illegal there is nothing stopping them from doing it and masking it as them analyzing the market! in case of bitcoin they are recently starting to use the flaws in altcoins and their pump and dumps to analyze bitcoin! since they couldn't find any flaw in bitcoin itself...

the good news is that FUD is not going to always be effective. the market will always react to it but in the end the balance will be restored as the buyers come back and buy cheap coins from the weak hands. as you can see it happening today.

People get really emotional when it comes to large amounts of money, and the elite know it. They play on our emotions in ways that we don't recognize and we get pressured into giving up our values of supporting bitcoin for the very principle that we are against. People stand up for decentralization and freedom, but when they see their own personal wealth decreasing in terms of fiat, they get nervous, afraid, upset... they think that bitcoin is doomed. Can't anyone see that we're being turned against ourselves? It is only fear if you allow it to be fear!

They may keep at it but not for long. sooner than later they will have to bow to the force of the crypto reality and innovation. there will be payday soonest.

There has always been manipulation on almost any money making platform, sport or organisation. They will do anything to get even or make the platform suit their cause. When they can't have a way, they resort to outright manipulation, threat or intimidation. Someday they are gonna look back and wish they did things differently!

FUD has always succeeded in destroying market prices by giving panic to some investors who are unstable, and all of that is very disturbing and there must be a certainty that is believed for them as the value of bitcoin is influenced by the number of purchases and sales etc.

Let's analize their statement :

"they are neither a medium of exchange, nor a unit of measurement, nor a store of value."

I bought a Drone with bitcoin at one of my local gadget shops a few weeks ago, so it was a medium of exchange and it cost me X amount of coins, so it was a good unit of measure and I made a 807% profit on my coins that I bought in January of 2017 and sold in December of 2017. <This was a excellent store of value for me>  8)

Sorry, I do not agree with their observation.  ;D

The reason we are into bitcoin is to get away from these big manipulative traders who  make the rich richer and keep the poor at bay. Bitcoin is an opportunity to spread out the wealth to anyone that is a believer in the next financial revolution.

A suspicious transaction by one or a group of traders is the main cause of the Bitcoin boom. The market for digital coins other than bitcoin is very thin and easy to manipulate. Because of the Bitcoin's past artificial inflation, investors need to see the current momentum increase with a high cautious mind and not necessarily consider bitcoin to be a "non-breakable bubble" as some press reviews.

Investment banks will always remain as investment banks. It is their way of surviving in this dog eat dog world. Afterall, it is a survival game. I am guessing it is a matter of time before they start adopting cryptocurrencies.

Some hypothesize that the Bitcoin manipulators must be enormous and have a lot of money. Such as "Whale" Do you think that's correct?

Unfortunately, there are many other ways for Crypto market to be manipulated:

- Spoofing: is to pretend to have an intent to execute a specific trade to affect market sentimen. Often done with setting large orders that don't get filled and are immediately pulled. Fake buy or sell walls can drive the price

Especially familiar in markets with margin trading


- Short and long squeezes

A short or long squeeze occurs when a price is pushed upwards or downwards by a cascade of margin calls
In cryptocurrency markets, where margin trading is popular, and regulations lose, short and long squeeze hunting is common


- Pump and dumps

A small group of traders gets a larger group to buy into crypto which drives up the price and attracts outsiders, then the original small group exits at the expense of the outsiders

Manifests as a sudden rise in price that's followed by a complete retracement in a short period

Often coordinated through Telegram groups


- Wash trading

Creating fake trading volume in a market to signal false interest

Traders can do this by buying and selling amongst themselves to artificially increase trade volume

Especially dominant in exchanges with low fees and altcoin markets

The market for digital coins other than bitcoin is very thin and easy to manipulate.I hardly see any of them around except a bunch of day traders and speculators, nothing else. Those with ideals have long gone I guess.