Bitcoin Forum

TOKYO, JAPAN - October 14, 2011 - As the owner of the largest Bitcoin trading platform, Mt.Gox, we at Tibanne K.K feel obliged to step up and oppose opportunists around the world from trademarking the concept and term “Bitcoin”, which would severely limit the ability of those in the Bitcoin community to freely enjoy and use our beloved Crypto-currency.

As some in the community may be aware, back in July Michael Pascazi, a law attorney in upstate New York started to file for ownership of the Bitcoin trademark. This took place not only in the US but in other key countries like France and Japan where trademark laws favour the party who is “first-to-file”, rather than the first actual user of the term.

While Michael Pascazi apparently acquiesced in his attempt to trademark Bitcoin in the U.S. (thanks to a stricter “first-to-use” trademarking system), he has since submitted a claim in France through his wife Celine Mouchon Pascazi, where Pascazi has far stronger legal standing as the first entity to apply.

In reaction, we at Tibanne K.K in Japan have started legal proceedings in the hopes of opposing this filing in France, at a European level as well as in in other countries across the world.

The Pascazis' stated intention is to profit from these trademarks, which would hamper Bitcoin enthusiasts, businesses and the community as a whole on a global basis in the free use and promotion of Bitcoin. Tibanne K.K will oppose this and any other "greed based" trademark application, in order to prevent self-serving attempts to profit from Bitcoin through spurious legal suits, and keep the term “Bitcoin” free for all.

We would like to use this opportunity to formally announce that all trademarks related to the term “Bitcoin” filed for and obtained by Tibanne K.K will be made freely available to anyone to use for whatever purpose whatsoever, whether that be for non-profit or commercial endeavours.

We will keep you apprised on these matters as soon as updates become available.

Regards
Mt.Gox Co. Ltd Team.

Media Contacts
press@mtgox.com



FROM WWW.MTGOX.COM.

HOW YOU THINK THIS idea?

china BTC web http://www.hxtop.com

Go mtgox! Stop them!

I know some are skeptical of MtGox's motives - many don't like that MtGox is trying to register trademarks.

However, I REALLY appreciate them stepping up and paying the money to do this. It is a huge service to the community to have MtGox willing to spend some of their profits on these types of fights. Kudos to them.

And to anyone who is suspicious - consider that if MtGox ever tried to corner the market by using its Bitcoin trademarks in a detrimental way, the community would drop them like a stone. It would be fully against MtGox's self-interest to so clearly abandon the trust of its userbase.

So, MtGox - thank you for fighting the good fight and good luck with these efforts.

  Will you have my babies?! ;p  Love the idea, especially since it is very close to what I was trying to poke the community to do back in the original Pascuzzy thread...

If MtGox will notarize and publish the press release stating that it formally intends to freely license the Bitcoin trademark for the usage we all expect it to mean, then I won't have a problem with them having that sort of trademark.  And then PGP sign the hash of the PDF file they publish of the document.

Where is MtGox's free & open trademark license? They have trademark apps pending around the world. Post your license here MtGox for the world to see.  A PGP sign of a hashed PDF is not good enough. No jury will understand that when it comes time to enforce. Your lawyers know better too. Post a free (make it US$1 or 1€ or 100¥, or 0.3BTC, so it's a legal contract), unlimited, & perpetual license, for each of us to fill in our name, sign, and return with our token payment. What are you waiting for?

MtGox's press release says:

". . . [A]ll trademarks related to the term “Bitcoin” filed for and obtained by Tibanne K.K will be made freely available to anyone to use for whatever purpose whatsoever, whether that be for non-profit or commercial endeavours."

This ain't worth a sh^t without an enforceable trademark license. These are big boys with lots of cash, and lawyers around the world. Where is the license for us all?

Hi

I have two concerns:
What if MtGox ownership changes? I would like to see the name BitCoin be released to the public domain so any later owner of MtGox will have a problem changing that policy.

(The OP has 8 posts. Who is it? I couldn't find a press releases section on MtGox.com. Would be happy to see it there, too.)

License should be valid on successors and assigns.
Here is link to press release. https://mtgox.com/press_release_20111014.html (https://mtgox.com/press_release_20111014.html)

Thanx for the link.
I'm no native speaker and I don't understand what exactly "License should be valid on successors and assigns." means but I read it as "successors of today's MtGox owners may use the IP titles however they please." Anyway I would feel best if the IP stuff would be handed over to some non profit organisation. If Gox runs bankrupt they can't decide about their IP anymore so better give it to some other entity before.

And please, I'm not ranting about how you handle stuff. I'm happy you stepped up for bitcoin and have full trust in MtGox' best intents. In the end I guess even having to switch to TibCoin or any other name would not really harm the project. Screw those IP fraudsters.

Successors & assigns means whoever comes after MtGox or whoever MtGox xfers the mark to in the future.
Good thought on Bankruptcy. That too can be addressed by their smart lawyers.

Ever think that perhaps MtGox points you to one mark by a third party while they round up the rest? Diversion perhaps? Remember Pearl Harbor. Japan talking peace with USA while the fleet steaming toward Pearl. Why should MtGox hold all the marks? What happens if MtGox sends cease and desist letters to the other exchanges or sues to shut them down? What will commission rate be then?

I say boycott MtGox until they hand out free and open trademark licenses to all comers.

if gox does this, they will lose more through reputation losses than they can win from the other platforms. *don't* boycott gox! they are the good guys (for now)

According to Adam's post on reddit their lawyers haven't advised them about defending trademarks.


http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/lbthr/mtgox_the_pascazi_retaliation/

Dear all

Thank you very much for your support in this matter and we are glad to see that most of you trust that we are here doing this first and foremost for the community!

That said, there are of course concerns about the integrity and enforceability of our promise to you to make the trademark free and open, and we understand your hesitance to believe in our good intent at this time. While unfortunately we cannot disclose how the actual process of making the trademark open will work at this point, you will within a few months see how any Bitcoin related trademarks we acquire will be protected and available for all without limitation.

We are really looking forward to this new adventure and we are sure that you will all enjoy it, freely!

  Not as much as I would enjoy K.K. Tibane having my babies! ;p
 

With all due respect, I think I speak accurately for the community when I say I don't think we want to wait months to find out what your plans are.  The name Bitcoin isn't your property, and you have no more right to monopolize it than does Mr. Pascazi.

The urgency is that if we are to stand idle and allow your trademark applications to succeed without exercising our legal rights to oppose them, merely on the grounds we think you'll do the right thing, then we're legally tying our own hands and turning a blind eye to the possibility that you, or perhaps more likely, your eventual successors, might pull something like a Pascazi.

I think it would be appropriate if, for example, you requested donations toward the cause, because clearly it isn't free.  And taking your word at face value, I applaud what you're doing.  But your word as a forum posting means nothing to a court, and that's unfortunately where it counts.  Providing anything less than a legally sound licensing agreement to benefit the public - one that explicitly grants an irrevocable right to use the term to mean Bitcoin as we now know it - is to play us the same way Pascazi's playing.  At the very least, you guys need to be PGP-signing these claims that your intent is to open these marks to all, and I mean that as a very low least.  I think it's very reasonable that your intent to license these marks freely to us as a community be provable by any interested party, and thus far it is not.

Hi Casascius,

Unfortunately things are not "that" easy when it comes to trademarking (apply and/or oppose), time is a virtue here. For example it will likely take up to 6 month to get the final approval for our trademark. However, our "plans" will be announce sooner than that and from there you will have a clear picture of how things will be done.

To add to this, if we go against our word we will have the whole community against us. It would be irresponsible on every level for us to enforce royalties or other terms on the ™ later on, which is why we're taking steps to make sure this isn't possible even in the event Mt.Gox is sold.

Actually, I think the best outcome would be if mtgox applied for and was rejected the trademark.  That would establish a clear ruling in the court systems that bitcoin cannot be trademarked and is free for anyone to use.  I would hope that mtgox would recognize that this is the best possible outcome and would be supportive of efforts to oppose the trademark.

You people announced your intentions 3 months ago on the French section of this board. 3 months ago! And again 3 days ago. Why announce that which you all won't deliver? Haven't you all engaged in deceptive business practices extending into the USA and EU? Your press release looks like a diversion. Draw attention to one country, France, while you secure marks in all the rest. The " trust me " mantra is a nice touch. Bernie Madoff said that as well. How did that work out for his clients?

I may sound like a broken record here, but we are working on this and it takes time... We really would love that things have moved quicker even in France (Please read the press release and you will understand why in France it is taking time).

This said, we will get back to you soon on this matter regardless of the outcome.

Cheers

The mark in class 36 is already registered in Portugal. Already registered to other than MtGox. And a German firm filed before MtGox for a Community Mark (27 countries), in the EU, in a number of classes. Your proposed outcome has been mooted already.

Why do you all refer only to Pascazi http://www.pascazilaw.com (http://www.pascazilaw.com) in your release when the Portugal mark has been registered already for many months, and the German firm applied for a Community Mark (27 Countries) before you, has priority over you, and has opposed your application? You all playing some sort of game? Looking to prod the US lawyer into a lawsuit? I smell a big Rat.

Has anyone else filed for trademark in the US?  At this point, I think that would be a good idea.

The trademarks should be handed over to a non profit bitcoin foundation I have said all along.

We never said it was our plan to keep the trademarks. Just wait a bit more for updates.

Sorry, but that is just not true. Even if some people might have their reservations against Mt. Gox, I can't see how anyone could put them on the same level as Pascazi, let alone a "large majority".

I for one am very happy that Mt. Gox is pursuing this, as I highly doubt that anybody else from the community (even those who complain now) would actually do something in that direction.

In this case, I think profit comes from the good publicity MtGox has been making by these undertakings. Even better if the rights are transferred to a non-profit.

Well, it's a bet. :) I know exactly nothing about the situation, but it just makes sense for them to bet on publicity. Besides, I've always trusted MagicalTux's good intentions. ::)

How so?

Ok guys why are you sooo excited about a name. "Raider" is called "Twix" now here in Germany, so what? This rebrand gave it quite some media attention and if we rebrand to TwixCoin, I'm 100% fine with that. No need to panic about a name!

Only problem would be to agree on a nice name and an organisation to register it for the good of bitcoin without having some stupid fraudsters TM it in the process again.

The battle for the name BitCoin might already be lost in many countries as Advocat said.

So I guess MtGox could do such a thing. Or TradeHill. Do a world wide registration for TwixCoin or any other nice name that is still available world wide. Do it secretly without any opposing lawyers and then give that name over to the EFF or whatever trusted entity that would take it. (And note down all the costs along the way for maybe you get compensations by the community. I heard some are very idealistic and welcoming to such a move.)

I think Tux himself or Gox the company grabbing this is making just about as good as we are going to get out of a bad situation.

US is a first to use system. Who exactly was first to use in the US? Not publish a paper but use in Interstate Commerce. And how exactly is that fact going to be proven?

A not for profit may be taken over by the State or dissolved for numerous reasons. Bad idea.

Linus Torvalds (his foundation) has been handing out licenses on LINUX for about 15 years now. What is so hard and mysterious MtGox?

Bravo! You said it. They ain't giving away nothing. They are in it for the money. Have no illusions. Good publicity is not profit; it leads to more profit.

Maybe we need to actually get the trademark on anything before we do something with those?

It'll take close to 6 months to get anything from that, which gives a lot of time before we can do anything at all (changing trademark owners while being in the application process is usually not a good thing).

The registration of trademark is the fruit of long talks with various members of the community. It's time consuming and funds consuming, but is required if we don't want to see things go bad. We are trying our best to help the Bitcoin world expand, and for this we need some stability and help merchants feel secure when they use the word "Bitcoin" on advertising material.


Our interest in this should be obvious enough. The more people can use Bitcoin freely, the more people will trade in and out on MtGox and other exchanges. Using the Bitcoin trademark for other purposes (forcing people using the word Bitcoin to buy a license) will most likely not result in any profit, either on short term (I don't think anyone here would be ready to use Bitcoin as a trademark) or long term (it's not a long term strategy either).
It doesn't make sense to use Bitcoin as a trademark to make money by enforcing it, but it certainly makes sense as a way to ensure everyone can adopt Bitcoin without having to worry.
Keeping the ownership of the trademark is not a requirement to achieve this goal, and we have a few more announcements that will make things easier to understand.

We are open to questions from anyone, and will make our best to ensure everyone fully understands our goal here. While MtGox has grown quite a bit and I don't have much time to post on the forums, we are still doing our best for Bitcoin and the community. I am actually quite surprised to see how some people who were initially friendly with us are now talking about MtGox like if we were some sort of "World Company™" with only profit in mind.

MtGox's press release expressly refers to "filed for" marks. Those are not issued marks. Why use this term if you won't license "filed for" marks? It's your press release. It says what you want it to say! Of course your a world company. You filed for marks all over the world; have you not? Why file for a mark in Slovakia, for example, if not to tie up the Slovak market, and God knows how many other markets? As for your profits; show us all how little MtGox makes. Publish your 2010 tax returns. Post them here and on your site. Then if your profit is unimportant, donate it all, after tax, to the ICRC in Geneva, they do good works.

Boycott MtGox unless and until they issue free, perpetual, and worldwide licenses, on applied for, and registered Bitcoin marks! Do it for "the community". Do it now.

   Because there is a HUGE fucking difference between legitimate orgs dealing with Bitcoins registering to protect themselves and Pascuzzy whose sole intention was to STEAL it.......


  And who the fuck are you anyhows? I hate people that hide behind a new name to 'make a point' on the interwebs....

  +1

Well I feel better now knowing that you have ordained MtGox as worthy to obtain the Bitcoin trademark. How about Tradehill? CampBX? Or any one of the hundreds of Bitcoin entrepreneurs around the world?  Are they not worthy? Are they not legitimate? Are some more worthy than others? Are you worthy? If a sovereign government issues a trademark, is anyone stealing anything?  Maybe you should take Portugal to task for issuing its Bitcoin mark about 7 months ago. How dare they.  Maybe we all should just make a list of the possible legitimate parties, and then you can turn thumbs up or thumbs down as to who can own the mark? Well then it is settled. No need for all those pesky trademark offices, and lawyers and such; just sadpandatech at the head of the line with thumbs up or down. Why the cursing? Does it make you any smarter? Does it make for a more compelling post by you? Not. Do you really care who the poster is if he/she has something interesting to say? Or even if it isn't interesting; just say jerk and move on.

I really don't get your point though... What should be done here?

  I did not 'ordain' anyone. MY excitement is for the shear fact that someone gievs a shit enoguh to do it! 


  Yea, well none of the other 'worthy' ones got off their fucking asses to do it!  I pushed the idea of someone, some entity to do it as some sort of co-opp/community venture way back when the Pascuzzi thing happened and not one damn 'worthy' company said a damn thing. Now, you all of a sudden want to be the spokes person for all the other 'worthy' people when someone finally does stand up do do something.

 Your agenda is obvious and it fucking stinks.....

I hope I still come across as friendly.  I for one am not afraid that I will ever be on the receiving end of a "for-profit trademark lawsuit" (if there ever were such a thing) at the hands of a Mark Karpeles-run MtGox.  Zero fear whatsoever.  It's just that the "world company" that comes along and buys MtGox, having noticed you're up to your ears in paperwork (AML etc.) and views this as an opportunity to take a great company into the stratosphere, and hires you on as a consultant giving you some breathing room plus the freedom to do what you really want but just don't have time for...

That "world company" might have a vision of maximally exploiting what it views as "their intellectual property".

We see it all the time in the software industry.  For a software industry that universally decries software patents and agrees things would be better if they went away, there seems to be a whole lot of software patent lawsuits going on and claims that xyz competitor stole "our technology" (e.g. Apple vs. Samsung) that serve no purpose beyond throwing a few kidney blows at the competition.  That's not something I think I'd like to see.

Thank you Mt.GoX.

Easy. As I have called for: Free, open, worldwide, unlimited license to all comers, on apps and registered marks of MtGox, relating to Bitcoin. It is what they promised with their cheesy press release. Could you imagine any other company putting out such a cheesy announcement?  Torvalds did open trademark licensing starting about 15 years ago. Maybe MtGox needs someone to photocopy the LINUX trademark open license for them. It is such hard work, so complicated, so mysterious, and they are so very very busy in Japan. Not. Put up or shut up MtGox. Your excuses are pathetic. Oh, OK, sorry world, we really didn't mean a license now. Maybe some day; just hold your breath. Was it a slow news day in Japan? But don't worry you can trust MtGox. We are in it for the glory. That big fat profit, well, don't look too hard at that, it will hurt your eyes. What a joke. Boycott MtGox!

With all due respect. Was it really a "crash"? Or did somebody say it was a crash to boost the bottom line? Those Bernie Madoff statements looked pretty real. Fooled a bunch of people; smart people; rich people. How do you know it was a crash? Because somebody told you so? Well, I'm telling you that the moon is made of green cheese. Go for that too? Whoever does, I have a bridge I'm looking to sell. It goes from Manhattan to Brooklyn, and it is pretty. Lots of "crashes" and "hacks" with this Bitcoin thing. believe then all. Some? Most? None? The one thing which is sure is that people's hard earned money disappears. Damn sure.

Also, MtGox Co. Ltd. is owned 88% by Tibanne Co. Ltd., which is itself owned 100% and directed by me. We are not actively looking for investors as the income from trading is covering all our fees and allows us to do R&D.

Got a ticket id for your 96.44 BTC so I can look into that?

Advocat, how can they release license to something they have no trademark rights for yet?

Easy as pie. They convey rights to any and all marks applied for or registered by, or for, MtGox Co. Ltd. and/or Tibanne Co. Ltd., now and in the future, relating to the term Bitcoin, in any and all Nice Convention mark classifications. Done. Didn't hurt at all.

6+ months and counting and still no open trademark license to even look at. We did not forget.


Jimmy

The process is on its way... Things does not always goes as fast we we would like, still we are happy with the actual situation and we will update you on what's going on when we will have something for you.

Cheers