Bitcoin Forum

Will bitcoin reach a state of low volatility that would be the same as gold? This article is a typical gold hype to make everyone buy. But look at the analyst's projected high of where gold might be on the 2nd half of they year. The increase from low to high would only be a mere 14%.

Also, do you really want bitcoin to reach a state of stability in its present price?

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(Kitco News) - Struggling gold prices will soon see better days, with a bullish wave projected to bring about as high a level as $1,370 this year, according to one analyst.

“At the present juncture, sentiment in the gold market looks excessively bearish, which is unsustainable,” Metal Bulletin precious metals analyst Boris Mikanikrezai wrote in a Seeking Alpha post on Friday.

Spot gold prices tumbled almost 9% in the last six months. And on Friday, the prices nearly hit the $1,200 level. The December Comex gold futures also had a tough few months, last seen trading at $1,222.90, down 0.02% on the day, after hitting a 12-month low on Friday.

Despite this major drop, the yellow metal has been one of the most resilient trading options within the precious metals space, Mikanikrezai noted.

“In the second half of the year, I expect a strong rally in gold prices and gold-mining equities as the macro backdrop for the precious metals complex should prove more positive,” the analyst wrote.

Read in full http://www.kitco.com/news/2018-08-05/Be-Ready-For-Gold-s-Bullish-Wave-Analyst.html

Gold could rise, especially if its undervalued. I'm not certain how conscious the public is of deficits, inflation and other concerns revolving around fiat based money. We could witness a future correlation between increasing awareness of these issues and higher gold ownership and demand. Whether gold will appeal to younger generations is an open question. Isolationist policies seem common with youth. They're extremely conservative and only stick to financial basics they have used in the past. Gold or crypto may be too extreme or radical for them to bother with, unless circumstances force them to change.

Another issue with gold is, dwindling firearm ownership could prevent mass adoption. Those living in australia, france the UK and similar designated "gun free zones" could have issues securing gold holdings without resorting to more expensive options like utilizing safety deposit boxes. A shift towards gold could also increase violence and crime. Its usually much more profitable to rob someone hoarding gold than it is someone with a few dollars in their wallet or credit cards.

There is another possibility which says bitcoin and crypto could appeal more to younger generations than gold with cryptos convenience and superior user experience. While offering many similar protections against inflation and overprinting.

Gold price in 2013 was $1660/ounce. Gold is going to $2100/ounce. Russia's gold reserves have reached 2000 tonnes.

China has some $4 Trillion to buy Gold now that there are 820 billionaires in China. A big buy will take Gold price to the Moon.............

Not sure if Bitcoin will get there, don't think anyone knows for sure. Although, even if it did, based on what we've been learning working for one of our marketing clients (partly, a gold tokenization platform), it would not have the same benefits of gold overall. Bitcoin at its core, is just code. It doesn't matter how high the price gets, or how stable it becomes, it's still just code on the blockchain. If something happens to the network, it's gone, if someone hacks in, its gone, if you lose your keys, its gone. And with the new technology that's coming down the pike, and the way that many people see government heading, it may not be as secure as many think it is (although we're huge fans of BTC). Gold on the other hand, is a physical asset, which is not just a physical item you can hold in your hand, with a history of being seen as a store of wealth, but it's also used extensively in industry (silver as well and other precious metals as well). It's also pretty cool that you can have blockchain tokens pegged to the price of gold, though this is probably not as secure as physically owning gold yourself.

The Cyberius team.

What's up with these irrelevant, space-wasting pictures?  It drives me nuts when clickbait websites do it, and I would suggest we don't need any more of that here.

As far as gold goes, the sentiment here (not surprising since it comes from kitco) is just like all the articles I read on coinflation.com.  Gold is always ready to break out (same with silver).  Meanwhile, even if it moves a little, it's basically been doing nothing but going down slowly for years.  It's been a death of 1000 cuts for anyone who invested in gold since 2011 and there hasn't been any real good news to suggest that it's going to get any better.  What's hot right now is the stock market and cryptocurrency and even the world political instability hasn't boosted metal prices--at all.

I'm not strongly against buying some gold, but I don't think it should make up even 10% of anyone's portfolio.  It does nothing except collect dust and can't be used for anything by the average person unless it's jewelry.  It doesn't even function as money, like crypto does.

That's mostly my issue with gold too. Only 10% of worldwide gold is actually used for a industrial purpose. The other 90% is split between jewelry and investments. Coupled with the fact that worldwide gold production rate is increasing year-on-year, I'd rather put my money elsewhere.

I don't think bitcoin will be stable even if people wanted it to be, at this moment. We're still very early on with extremely limited awareness of what bitcoin actually does in the general population, let alone the percentage of population actually adopting the technology and using it. Thus, it's more likely that prices will continue to be volatile, and mostly on the up side, until adoption/demand ceases to climb drastically.

Gold can still be recognized as a store of value in the long run, and hedge against hyperinflation. But if you're looking to invest, I doubt that this is the right place to put your money for the short term. It's not likely that you'll ever make much more than the CPI Index's percentage increases.

It's perfectly reasonable, however, to say that gold is due for a bull run. The scale of the climb is just undetermined at the moment, but with the period of sideways movement that gold has had, it should be a matter of time before a bullish pattern breaks out. Still though, I don't see it as a short term investment worth looking into. Hold it for when SHTF, but even then, I believe bitcoin to be the superior optoin.

Gold is a trully an asset in which you can really keep them for good. I never see Gold become undervalued maybe it will depend of the country or depend on types of gold that we have but it good thing to know that there is coming development that will favor the gold again. Gratitude for this news.

  We have different view / opinion on the above topic, one should remember that Market is Volatile, anything can happen at any given time, it may have some drops on its price value but it will surely correct itself. Bitcoin and Gold are not the same in tern of market status, bot have qualities, it is dependent on the volume of investment by the investors put in,  in the market. the market movement is  unpredictable, no one knows what will happen next to the market during the trading market.

Bitcoin cannot be stable with current Bitcoiners mentality (Bitcoin should be used as an asset,not as a currency),market cap being only $120 billion compared to gold which is approx $7 trillion is also a factor why it cannot be stable at the moment.I'm pretty sure that if Bitcoin prooves stability for the next years,a lot of people will lose interest in Bitcoin.

It is not space wasting, it is art. I am expressing how I feel about something in the article hehehe. But I can choose smaller pictures next time to make it less annoying.

But my idea for this thread is to ask if would you want bitcoin to reach a state of low volatility in its present price and be the same as the boring old man in the picture?

I reckon there would be many people in the community that have mixed feelings.

hope bitcoin can go to the moon like gold in 2008, many predict when bitcoin will be received by etf it will make bitcoin as valuable as gold

Investing in Gold has been the top most priority for the last know history of thousands of years.  The kings were having tons of gold in their vault. Same was the position with the rich people who collected their earnings and preferred their savings to store in the form of gold.
Having some gold by common man was the insurance guarantee any unseen misfortune. 

But now the world is changing.  People started investing in Banks; insurance companies etc.  Latest addition being crypto currency.  But still the  top priority of masses (in developing nations) is gold. 

Even myself who is now well aware of crypto; still will prefer having some gold in my portfolio.  So if the price goes up; the investors who have already invested in it; will be gaining.

Some of the good points mate. This has been the case always, gold is always shown as king of all the assets but to be honest it is just best because it has that kind of properties and it's use in the store value is predominant and safer as compared to other volatile assets. But that's not enough these days, we need assets which will be used as an asset as well as will benefit us from the profits too. Now ask who has got that proepties ? Simply bitcoin guys and that's what we need. Gold will rise no matter what because it's demand is huge and it is depleting from face of earth very fast so it's but obvious that it will be costly. But that's gonna take lot more time as compared to bitcoin.

The story is likely to happen, gold is in the sights of some countries. Looks like they are collecting all the gold of the world again, the purpose for what is unclear. But the future will have many things that we can hardly predict, people should be careful will be good. There should be a backup plan for investors. To cope with this difficulty.

If Bitcoin happens to be stable at this current price, I’m really okay with it and there is nothing wrong, cause this is a really good price and I don’t know what else I should ask for.

But the way I’m seeing it, I don’t think Bitcoin will ever stable as for now, if we are going to talk about Bitcoin being stable, it should be around the time when all Bitcoins has been mined with nothing left, if there is any possibility for the price to become stable then it will be around then.

Gold will always value is always projected to go up due to scarcity and increase demand from black rapper who want something bling2x, with growng trend of gold tooth, gold powder food.

Yes, I have a little interest in gold though, but I think before investing into it I will need to make some serious research based on how it works so that I don’t make any mistake. And if what the op is saying is right, then investing in gold will be hundred percent worth it. I have once thought of investing in gold after my dad suggested it. I think I should do now, but like I said. I will first of all make research about it.

Gold is a real asset, the role of which is artificially understated. Therefore, the rise in gold prices will certainly take place. But whether it will be the second half of 2018 or 2019 - it is difficult to say, because it all depends on the situation or the global capital market.

Concerning gold my opinion is absolutely opposite. I am pretty sure that gold will continue its downtrend. I agree that around 1200$ is a quite strong vele but I think that this level will be broken out. Moreover I consider that the target price of gold is about 800$ in the future. I do not trade on community market but I would not buy gold in the current moment of time.
By the way let us have a look at the spread between gold and silver if seems me that the spread is very wide. Gold is expensive in more than 100 times comparing with silver. Actually it is the very wide spread especially if we have a look at the historical values of the spread between this assets. Besides dollar is strong enough and it is not so good for gold so I do not consider that gold is the very attractive asset in the current moment of time

One really wise man that I know in my life have said that while economy crisis will came up to the point of developing and crashing everything around in the world the only valuable thing that would be last is called gold.

The main point is it can't. Bitcoin is simply too small. Any deep pocket moves are going to result in volatility. For as long as the marketcap is lower than a couple trillion dollars, volatility will not be reduced to gold's.

I expect Bitcoin to move $10,000 up and $10,000 down by the time we are at 6 figures, kind of like what the Berkshire Hathaway type A stock does, but overall % of volatility will be much lower in absolute terms.

So we just have to way, the money will come. If the elites want to keep their wealth they must diversify some on Bitcoin.

Goldbugs will remain deluded into the fact that gold is pretty much useless in the information age, it's a lost cause I guess.

Well, there's a few things to consider here actually:
1. Don't underestimate the possibility of catastrophe and/or political unrest. In such situations, gold may be a better option. Plus, if the power's out, it, other precious metals, other commodities, or cash may be your only option. Plus, crypto accepting machines and merchants aren't everywhere that you may decide to travel.
2. Gold is universally recognized and accepted as money (though not at your local Western grocery store perhaps).
3. Gold has the historical backing of thousands of years.
4. Many of the wealthy and governments still horde stockpiles of gold.
5. Gold is a useful component in multiple industries, and thus has an intrinsic value.
6. Even the average jo can take their gold to the local pawn shop and get cash for it.
7. As to jewelry: A. another intrinsic value - people have always liked gold, and will probably continue to use it for things such as jewelry, which B. also act as forms of investments. If anything, the jewelry can be sold for a higher price than just the gold content (which is valuable enough).
8. Cryptocurrencies at large are highly volatile still, and are still relatively new, and at the core of traditional cryptos... is just code, no intrinsic value, except perhaps being able to post permanent messages across the network (don't get us wrong, we really like crypto, but that's just the situation).
9. There are some companies who are creating tokenized gold, or blockchain tokens pegged to the price of gold, which might be an option to consider, although it would still suffer in the event of #1.

Just some things to consider. Again, we like crypto, but gold has some things going for it.

Have a good day,
The Cyberius team.

I am not ready for that to happen, I have not gathered a competitive amount of tokens to participate in that bull run, so if it will take place I think I would be very regrettable and not happy.

When goldbugs usually mention "when the power is off" don't specify what that even means. Does it mean temporarily, like being in the middle of a tsunami or some natural disaster, so you have no internet and whatnot? In this case, how would your gold be any better than the rest of the destroyed property? Being physical has these inconveniences.  Also this is just a temporary misfortune. It would get solved eventually and the world will go on, and going on means digital currency.

If you mean it goes off permanently due some sort of war... then I still fail to see how gold matters. During war I doubt people are going to be in the mood to exchange things, most likely they will take things by force, which means you are going to prioritize shelter, weapons, food and water over gold or anything else.

There is no intermediate point in which gold will be the currency of use. If the internet/electricity goes off it means civilization collapsed anyway.

Yes but what I was asking was if you, I assume as a bitcoin holder, want for bitcoin to reach a state of stability in its present price going from $6000 to $8000.

Won't it be good for its adoption as a stable currency?

this is very profitable to invest in a long time, but I think it's dangerous Because if the rich people sell their gold in a large way this could have a dangerous impact on the price of gold

Everything is same if supply increases then prices will go down. Gold is very stable and moves very slow whether up or down so if you think that prices will go down then you will get a chance to sell your gold without much loss. But if your bit late in a crypto market to sell or buy then you may lose a lot of money due to very high volatility.

Earlier Chinees and Indians were buying more gold but a recent survey says that demand for gold has reduced in both countries. In India, young girls not so much attracted to these gold ornaments compared to olden days so automatically gold demand will come down.

The only reason it doesn't jump up and down as much as crypto does is because of how large and liquid that market is.

In the last six months alone Gold has lost over 10% of its value, which means that $800,000,000,000 in value is gone. It's not a big deal for the average person you may think, but unlike crypto that's capable of recovering in a day or so, Gold could potential need a year or two in order to climb back up 10%.

Another major factor is that crypto in its entirety has the potential of going x10-100 in the forthcoming years. In other words, the short term price decline will correct itself later on and still yield significant numbers. Gold however won't be able to see its value even increase with 50% from where it stands at today.

Good points, all of them.  I think I mentioned in an earlier post how manipulative (and repetitive) gold bugs are, but when I said that I was referring to people trying to unload their gold on you--if you check coinflation.com (http://www.coinflation.com), you'll see a bunch of articles listed and they're all about how bullish gold is about to get, etc., etc.  And it's funny.  I've been watching those articles for years now, and they say the same things all the time.  It's always a good time to buy gold.  They always give the same statistics about gold ownership and industrial use, how a silver quarter can still buy a gallon of gas, how much the demand for gold is in China, all of which they think points to how undervalued gold is.  It's NEVER a good time to sell gold.  You'll never, ever read an article about how bearish the market is.

The actual gold bugs, which would include the prepper crowd and those who have a lot of their net worth sunk into metals--those are the truly delusional people, IMO.  I agree that if the power goes off for an extended period of time, we're screwed.  In a Walking Dead-type situation, we'd need food, shelter, guns, medicine, and the basic necessities of life, and I don't think anyone would want to trade gold for any of those, unless they were betting that the power would come on at some point.

When natural disasters actually occur, people use cash for things, not gold.  Even in hyperinflation situations, I think the citizens just use someone else's national currency that's actually worth something instead of gold or silver.  In all the articles I've read about precious metals, I have yet to read any good examples of how people suffering from either hyperinflation or disaster used gold or silver as currency.  

If anyone here can point me to such an example, I'd be grateful.

Edit:  Just checked gold's price, and it's a hair below $1200 now.  That's SOOOO bullish.  lol

Gold price right now should be undervalued. Forex market flooded by fiat money and that should be increasing gold price but its not happen and gold price stable on $1200. I am believe gold price will be rising when economic crisis happen and big investor will looking on safen haven investment like gold.

With the global economic environment in bad shape, crypto and the value of the dollar falling, gold as a store of value could see a lot of upside.

Volatility is what makes bitcoin popular last year and I think we actually needs increases in price for bitcoin to get to were it ought to be. If things remains bearish investors will be dissatisfied with it and we need a show of profits for them to invest.

indeed, people are interested in seeing results, so they will invest in the pursuit of profit like their friends. and if more and more are buying, of course there will be more demand and cause prices to rise

This is non sequitur.

First of all, what I or you want is irrelevant. Macroeconomy doesn't work that way.
In this case, for adoption as a stable currency, you would need a massive marketcap. Again, look at gold's marketcap, at around 7 trillion USD that's the volatility you get, if you are okay with that % of volatility to use a stable currency, then you will use it, will the rest? who knows.

What is clear is, Bitcoin is tiny at $6000, $8000 or $20000, we need it to be $1,000,000 ish so there's enough money in there to reduce volatility. Bitcoin can be stable for a while, but then out of nowhere it will pump massively (and then crash, and so on as it goes higher overall) so there isn't an incentive to spend it on everyday purchases when you have deprecating fiat to do groceries with.

And still, you can't compare it to a government manipulated currency which has a fictitious stability.

To have a Bitcoin economy we need to reach a point where 1 BTC = 1 BTC and you stop thinking in terms of any other thing, that is what they mean by hyperbitcoinization.

Until then BTC will be a better gold, not necessarily used on daily transactions. Lower quality monies will be used for that.

Gold is still a major asset in the reserves of a lot of countries, including China and the US.

Whether or not a bull wave will come is up for debate. Obviously with me having an investment in some physical form of gold I'd like to see the prices get up, and there are also signs that this current bear market is going to come to an end soon, there is simply no accurate figure that would say when the bull market will actually be kickstarted.

It's no surprise that growth even in a gold bull market is projected to be so low, due to gold having a much larger market cap than bitcoin, and also having derivatives traded on major platforms. To be honest, I only really see my investment in gold as a long term hedge against fiat currencies, and even then I'm starting to move some of my gold savings to bitcoin.

If that trend will happen right now, the only thing that I will hope to get profit from would be my bunch of alternative cryptos that I own... Because with Bitcoin my portfolio is really bad.

Here's an example of what the goldbugs look at as good news:  Gold logs first gain in 4 sessions, but still near 1½-year low as Turkey turmoil fades (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/gold-edges-higher-as-turkey-turmoil-fades-2018-08-14).  Note that gold is now at $1193, which is actually down from when I wrote in this thread the other day.  It's complete bullshit.

Here's another:  The Perfect Panic that’s Crucial before Silver Prices can go Higher (http://www.commoditytrademantra.com/silver-trading-news/the-perfect-panic-thats-crucial-before-silver-prices-can-go-higher/).  This is the same tripe that precious metals permabulls keep spewing upon the masses, hoping they'll buy some silver.  They constantly say metals are poised to go higher, IF only X happens. 

Also note that these articles are from within the past day.  These news stories will keep getting rewritten and regurgitated over and over and over.  As I said earlier, they'll tell you that it's NEVER a bad time to buy metals.  They didn't tell you that when silver was at $50 in 2011; they didn't say this in the decade-long run-up to that price, and they haven't told anyone to sell in the 7-year bear market that metals have been in since 2011. 

They're complete hucksters.