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Title: This article pretty much sums up all invalid arguments against bitcoin Post by: CryptoPanda on February 24, 2014, 12:18:11 PM Really fun to read and really shows how ignorant are people.
Cash is 10 times worse that bitcoin in any aspect and yet still most people have hard time accepting bitcoin just because it's something new. And people tend to be ignorant to new stuff until it hits them in the face...few times. http://www.coindesk.com/cash-invented-seen-media-today/ Title: Re: This article pretty much sums up all invalid arguments against bitcoin Post by: SecondsOld on February 24, 2014, 12:51:30 PM So true...people fear what they don't understand.
Title: Re: This article pretty much sums up all invalid arguments against bitcoin Post by: btcmania on February 24, 2014, 01:08:55 PM Really fun to read and really shows how ignorant are people. Cash is 10 times worse that bitcoin in any aspect and yet still most people have hard time accepting bitcoin just because it's something new. And people tend to be ignorant to new stuff until it hits them in the face...few times. http://www.coindesk.com/cash-invented-seen-media-today/ Those arguments seem ridiculous. Cash: immediate / BTC : unrealistic for any daily transaction due to wait times that could take up to an hour or more. Cash: a dollar is worth a dollar and always will be in your own country / BTC : $1400 one day, $700 the next totally volatile. Cash: "bills only come in fixed denominations, requiring users to maintain a large number of these pieces of paper that must be aggregated to execute a transaction and then re-aggregated to ‘make change’" Solution: We call it a bank card. No change necessary. BTC on the other hand would require you to look at the daily value of the coin and then perform a mathematical formula to determine the price. A pack of gum for $1.00 CASH might be 0.001 BTC but when you are purchasing it, you're more easily going to identify if the price is reasonable by comparing $1.00 to $1.75 for the same pack of gum elsewhere. If you're buying a car, the price tag of $14,000 compared to the dealer down the street of $15,899 is easy to compare, it's easier to deal with issues of monthly payments in dollar amounts, it's easier to transact with your bank in dollar. Purchase a car with BTC and you'd have to first look at the value of the coin. Did Gox take yet another shit on the economy and the price fell to $557 from $750 the week before? If so, that new car is probably no longer going to be listed for 19 BTC - the dealer would change the price. You'll never find any merchant going to lock in the price at a set amount in BTC. The daily dollar is always going to be a dollar in your own country. BTC will not. Security issues are also laughable. You carry a bank card and keep the PIN # in your head. Your bank account insured against losses (in Canada it's the CDIC). Even credit cards with their evil interest rates will offer protection against unauthorized use in the form of filing a dispute and issuing a chargeback. Once you've sent a BTC to someone, make a single error (eg. 10 instead of 1.0 BTC) and there's no way you'll ever see those coins again - no agency to report it to. I'm all for BTC as an investment, but whenever someone tries to portray cash as being evil and BTC better, it's really living in a world of illusion and fantasy. Cash will always be superior. Four years old now and how many places are BTC/LTC accepted at? Slim to none and destined to remain that way. “I just don’t understand why there is nobody that I can call to reinstate my ‘cash’ if I lose it,” says Mike Smith, a businessman from Toledo. “What type of idiotic wealth and payment system doesn’t maintain transaction and ownership records?” Clearly Mr. Smith needs to learn how to use a bank statement and pay stubs. The ownership and transactions are as plain as day. As for reinstating cash, may as well hope for a way to reinstate your television if it gets 'lost' as well since we're putting no ownership on the person that carries around mass amounts of paper money. Title: Re: This article pretty much sums up all invalid arguments against bitcoin Post by: CryptoPanda on February 24, 2014, 01:16:00 PM Your arguments are rather invalid too
1. BTC transacitons are also instant. Confirmation takes time. For small amounts you don't have to wait it. Transfering larger amounts takes time with cash too, infact much longer 2. a bitcoin is also worth a bitcoin and will always be worth that worldwide. A dollar loses it's value every year. Once bitcoin comes out of its infant phase the price will stabilize and the value will slowly increase over the years due to limited supply. 3. cards are whole different story, the article is satirical comparison between cash and bitcoin only. 4. I decided that I have work to do instead of arguing with someone on the internet :) Really fun to read and really shows how ignorant are people. Cash is 10 times worse that bitcoin in any aspect and yet still most people have hard time accepting bitcoin just because it's something new. And people tend to be ignorant to new stuff until it hits them in the face...few times. http://www.coindesk.com/cash-invented-seen-media-today/ Those arguments seem ridiculous. Cash: immediate / BTC : unrealistic for any daily transaction due to wait times that could take up to an hour or more. Cash: a dollar is worth a dollar and always will be in your own country / BTC : $1400 one day, $700 the next totally volatile. Cash: "bills only come in fixed denominations, requiring users to maintain a large number of these pieces of paper that must be aggregated to execute a transaction and then re-aggregated to ‘make change’" Solution: We call it a bank card. No change necessary. BTC on the other hand would require you to look at the daily value of the coin and then perform a mathematical formula to determine the price. A pack of gum for $1.00 CASH might be 0.001 BTC but when you are purchasing it, you're more easily going to identify if the price is reasonable by comparing $1.00 to $1.75 for the same pack of gum elsewhere. If you're buying a car, the price tag of $14,000 compared to the dealer down the street of $15,899 is easy to compare, it's easier to deal with issues of monthly payments in dollar amounts, it's easier to transact with your bank in dollar. Purchase a car with BTC and you'd have to first look at the value of the coin. Did Gox take yet another shit on the economy and the price fell to $557 from $750 the week before? If so, that new car is probably no longer going to be listed for 19 BTC - the dealer would change the price. You'll never find any merchant going to lock in the price at a set amount in BTC. The daily dollar is always going to be a dollar in your own country. BTC will not. Security issues are also laughable. You carry a bank card and keep the PIN # in your head. Your bank account insured against losses (in Canada it's the CDIC). Even credit cards with their evil interest rates will offer protection against unauthorized use in the form of filing a dispute and issuing a chargeback. Once you've sent a BTC to someone, make a single error (eg. 10 instead of 1.0 BTC) and there's no way you'll ever see those coins again - no agency to report it to. I'm all for BTC as an investment, but whenever someone tries to portray cash as being evil and BTC better, it's really living in a world of illusion and fantasy. Cash will always be superior. Four years old now and how many places are BTC/LTC accepted at? Slim to none and destined to remain that way. “I just don’t understand why there is nobody that I can call to reinstate my ‘cash’ if I lose it,” says Mike Smith, a businessman from Toledo. “What type of idiotic wealth and payment system doesn’t maintain transaction and ownership records?” Moreover, there appears to be no authentication mechanism associated with cash payments or transfers, let alone one that matches modern security standards. Once someone has gained physical control of your ‘bills’, they are free to spend or use them as they wish and there is no way to reverse the transaction, stop them or even identify who has stolen them. Title: Re: This article pretty much sums up all invalid arguments against bitcoin Post by: btcmania on February 24, 2014, 01:25:36 PM Your arguments are rather invalid too 1. BTC transacitons are also instant. Confirmation takes time. For small amounts you don't have to wait it. Transfering larger amounts takes time with cash too, infact much longer I can purchase a new fridge and stove at $1100 in about 20 seconds with my plastic cash. I could also lay down 11 $100 bills in the same amount of time. As a merchant I'd not let anyone walk out of the store without seeing the full confirmations and in this regard, BTC fails. The transaction times make it completely useless as a currency. You *could* sell your new fridge, stove, car, etc. and let the person leave after 2 confirmations but realistically, would you? Really? Quote from: CryptoPanda 2. a bitcoin is also worth a bitcoin and will always be worth that worldwide. A dollar loses it's value every year. Once bitcoin comes out of its infant phase the price will stabilize and the value will slowly increase over the years due to limited supply. A Bitcoin will always be worth 1.0 and half of a Bitcoin will always be worth 0.5. However the value of a Bitcoin will always be changing from hour to hour, minute to minute. Selling a new plasma television for 1.0 BTC might get you $750 today but $580 tomorrow. You cannot base any business transaction on a decimal number (BTC * USD) that is always changing. Quote from: CryptoPanda 4. I decided that I have work to do instead of arguing with someone on the internet :) I would call it backing up your thoughts, giving credibility to what you believe in.... but sure. :) Title: Re: This article pretty much sums up all invalid arguments against bitcoin Post by: Jomppe on February 24, 2014, 01:25:43 PM Indeed there is a big problem of the price denominated with dollars and a bitcoiner willing to pay with bitcoins.
As mentioned before, when the prices are all over determined with dollars and given the volatility of bitcoin, the pack of gum costs in bitcoins today 0.0015 BTC and perhaps tomorrow/a few days from now 0.003 BTC or 0.0001 BTC. The solution here is of course the mass adoption of BTC when BTC is truly more wide-spread. However, the issue of mass-adoption is the problem of chargeback issue which is a huge threat of bitcoin given the long block time and thus even the first confirmation takes so long. I can buy a car and waite 1 hour for confirmation but how about if I am paying my groceries? I doubt the other customers will like to waite longer in queue - also the staff costs of merchant skyrockets when they can serve max. 6 customers/hour. It offsets the advantages of low cost transactions. Definetely faster coin is needed for everyday transactions. It should not be too fast though because of high creation of orphan blocks and thus network security issues. The optimum is about 30 seconds - it is not too long time to waite and it is secure enough to have the first confirmation. There are a few coins that are worth to be studied further. Title: Re: This article pretty much sums up all invalid arguments against bitcoin Post by: Boussac on February 24, 2014, 01:47:10 PM I can purchase a new fridge and stove at $1100 in about 20 seconds with my plastic cash. I could also lay down 11 $100 bills in the same amount of time. As a merchant I'd not let anyone walk out of the store without seeing the full confirmations and in this regard, BTC fails. The transaction times make it completely useless as a currency. You *could* sell your new fridge, stove, car, etc. and let the person leave after 2 confirmations but realistically, would you? Really? If the shopkeeper waits for 10 seconds after receiving your payment transaction message to see if a double-spend tx shows up, what are the odds that a double-spend transaction win the race to the blockchain?Zero unless the fraudster controls a mining power so significant that the cost of the attack far exceeds the cost of the fridge. Title: Re: This article pretty much sums up all invalid arguments against bitcoin Post by: hilariousandco on February 24, 2014, 02:06:36 PM Really fun to read and really shows how ignorant are people. Cash is 10 times worse that bitcoin in any aspect and yet still most people have hard time accepting bitcoin just because it's something new. And people tend to be ignorant to new stuff until it hits them in the face...few times. http://www.coindesk.com/cash-invented-seen-media-today/ Well this is what happens with any new technology. People are afraid of change and tend to believe the media propaganda. Also, many of the same reasons why people shoot down BTC also apply to fiat or the banking systems, they just don't realise it. Title: Re: This article pretty much sums up all invalid arguments against bitcoin Post by: turvarya on February 24, 2014, 02:17:34 PM Cash: a dollar is worth a dollar and always will be in your own country / BTC : $1400 one day, $700 the next totally volatile. 1 USD is currently 0,728013978 EURWhen I buy something on the Internet for USD I can't say how much EUR I will really pay, since it depends on when the Money will be charged from my account. I already had such complications. So, your argument is a pretty stupid POV, because you don't take into account, that there are already a lot of currencies around with changing exchange rates. That problem has nothing to do with BTC. Welcome to Economics 101. Title: Re: This article pretty much sums up all invalid arguments against bitcoin Post by: btcmania on February 24, 2014, 02:23:37 PM Cash: a dollar is worth a dollar and always will be in your own country / BTC : $1400 one day, $700 the next totally volatile. 1 USD is currently 0,728013978 EURWhen I buy something on the Internet for USD I can't say how much EUR I will really pay, since it depends on when the Money will be charged from my account. I already had such complications. So, your argument is a pretty stupid POV, because you don't take into account, that there are already a lot of currencies around with changing exchange rates. That problem has nothing to do with BTC. Welcome to Economics 101. Your literacy skills need work. I wrote "a dollar is worth a dollar and always will be in your OWN COUNTRY". Since you're purchasing in US Dollars and paying Euros you are not using your own country's currency. Be that as it may, the US dollar and Canadian dollar are way more stable than Bitcoin. They may fluctuate by pennies a day whereas Bitcoin fluctuates 5,10,20,100,etc. dollars any given day. Some people are just willfully blind when it comes to Bitcoin. A great way to invest but totally useless in the real world as a currency. Title: Re: This article pretty much sums up all invalid arguments against bitcoin Post by: hilariousandco on February 24, 2014, 02:49:34 PM Cash: a dollar is worth a dollar and always will be in your own country / BTC : $1400 one day, $700 the next totally volatile. 1 USD is currently 0,728013978 EURWhen I buy something on the Internet for USD I can't say how much EUR I will really pay, since it depends on when the Money will be charged from my account. I already had such complications. So, your argument is a pretty stupid POV, because you don't take into account, that there are already a lot of currencies around with changing exchange rates. That problem has nothing to do with BTC. Welcome to Economics 101. Your literacy skills need work. I wrote "a dollar is worth a dollar and always will be in your OWN COUNTRY". Since you're purchasing in US Dollars and paying Euros you are not using your own country's currency. Be that as it may, the US dollar and Canadian dollar are way more stable than Bitcoin. They may fluctuate by pennies a day whereas Bitcoin fluctuates 5,10,20,100,etc. dollars any given day. Some people are just willfully blind when it comes to Bitcoin. A great way to invest but totally useless in the real world as a currency. Hopefully it wont be like this forever. All new currencies, especially one as innovative and new as Bitcoin, is going to be unstable. Title: Re: This article pretty much sums up all invalid arguments against bitcoin Post by: Talxz on February 24, 2014, 03:05:39 PM Cash: a dollar is worth a dollar and always will be in your own country the dollar has inflated over 113% since iv been born, dollar isnt worth the dollar of last year or ever, its lost 97% of its value the fuck are you talking about? Title: Re: This article pretty much sums up all invalid arguments against bitcoin Post by: turvarya on February 24, 2014, 03:07:08 PM Your literacy skills need work. I wrote "a dollar is worth a dollar and always will be in your OWN COUNTRY". I see. You assumed the currency in every country is called Dollar, that confussed me. However, you don't see the point of my post or the point of that satirical article. USD are stable now, yes, and BTC are unstable now, yes, but that has nothing to do with the concept of cash or the concept of cryptocurrencies. How do you know, that the USD will be stable in 50 years? There are a lot of "traditional currencies" out there, which failed bad. Do you really need examples? Ask Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_crisis So, being stable is not an Attribute of "traditional currencies" either of Cash which is the real Topic here. Title: Re: This article pretty much sums up all invalid arguments against bitcoin Post by: freebit13 on February 24, 2014, 04:15:46 PM I think you have taken satire, literally...
...and a dollar will always be worth a dollar, quite literally, but it won't always be exchangeable for the same amount of value... that's the catch ;) Really fun to read and really shows how ignorant are people. Cash is 10 times worse that bitcoin in any aspect and yet still most people have hard time accepting bitcoin just because it's something new. And people tend to be ignorant to new stuff until it hits them in the face...few times. http://www.coindesk.com/cash-invented-seen-media-today/ Those arguments seem ridiculous. Cash: immediate / BTC : unrealistic for any daily transaction due to wait times that could take up to an hour or more. Cash: a dollar is worth a dollar and always will be in your own country / BTC : $1400 one day, $700 the next totally volatile. Cash: "bills only come in fixed denominations, requiring users to maintain a large number of these pieces of paper that must be aggregated to execute a transaction and then re-aggregated to ‘make change’" Solution: We call it a bank card. No change necessary. BTC on the other hand would require you to look at the daily value of the coin and then perform a mathematical formula to determine the price. A pack of gum for $1.00 CASH might be 0.001 BTC but when you are purchasing it, you're more easily going to identify if the price is reasonable by comparing $1.00 to $1.75 for the same pack of gum elsewhere. If you're buying a car, the price tag of $14,000 compared to the dealer down the street of $15,899 is easy to compare, it's easier to deal with issues of monthly payments in dollar amounts, it's easier to transact with your bank in dollar. Purchase a car with BTC and you'd have to first look at the value of the coin. Did Gox take yet another shit on the economy and the price fell to $557 from $750 the week before? If so, that new car is probably no longer going to be listed for 19 BTC - the dealer would change the price. You'll never find any merchant going to lock in the price at a set amount in BTC. The daily dollar is always going to be a dollar in your own country. BTC will not. Security issues are also laughable. You carry a bank card and keep the PIN # in your head. Your bank account insured against losses (in Canada it's the CDIC). Even credit cards with their evil interest rates will offer protection against unauthorized use in the form of filing a dispute and issuing a chargeback. Once you've sent a BTC to someone, make a single error (eg. 10 instead of 1.0 BTC) and there's no way you'll ever see those coins again - no agency to report it to. I'm all for BTC as an investment, but whenever someone tries to portray cash as being evil and BTC better, it's really living in a world of illusion and fantasy. Cash will always be superior. Four years old now and how many places are BTC/LTC accepted at? Slim to none and destined to remain that way. “I just don’t understand why there is nobody that I can call to reinstate my ‘cash’ if I lose it,” says Mike Smith, a businessman from Toledo. “What type of idiotic wealth and payment system doesn’t maintain transaction and ownership records?” Clearly Mr. Smith needs to learn how to use a bank statement and pay stubs. The ownership and transactions are as plain as day. As for reinstating cash, may as well hope for a way to reinstate your television if it gets 'lost' as well since we're putting no ownership on the person that carries around mass amounts of paper money. Title: Re: This article pretty much sums up all invalid arguments against bitcoin Post by: CryptoPanda on February 24, 2014, 06:01:55 PM I can purchase a new fridge and stove at $1100 in about 20 seconds with my plastic cash. I could also lay down 11 $100 bills in the same amount of time. As a merchant I'd not let anyone walk out of the store without seeing the full confirmations and in this regard, BTC fails. The transaction times make it completely useless as a currency. You *could* sell your new fridge, stove, car, etc. and let the person leave after 2 confirmations but realistically, would you? Really? If the shopkeeper waits for 10 seconds after receiving your payment transaction message to see if a double-spend tx shows up, what are the odds that a double-spend transaction win the race to the blockchain?Zero unless the fraudster controls a mining power so significant that the cost of the attack far exceeds the cost of the fridge. yes exactly! People tend to present double spending like everyone can do it. It's simply not worth it for most transactions. Everyone that has used bitcoins to buy stuff knows that in practice the transactions are instant. Yes, the confirmation might take up to 10 mins, but nobody really waits for them. Hell, with credit cards you have even offline authorisation, where at the moment of transaction the merchant can't even verify if you've got any money at all. Yet still that doesn't seem to stop the commerce on planes and the like? Yeah they have millions loses per year because of that, but the benefits are much larger. Title: Re: This article pretty much sums up all invalid arguments against bitcoin Post by: CurbsideProphet on February 24, 2014, 06:25:53 PM I'm all for BTC as an investment, but whenever someone tries to portray cash as being evil and BTC better, it's really living in a world of illusion and fantasy. Cash will always be superior. Four years old now and how many places are BTC/LTC accepted at? Slim to none and destined to remain that way. The problem is you're trying to compare a well established system to something that is still in its infancy. But even if you try to make this rather unfair comparison, cash still isn't superior in all situations. I'll just give you one example, microtransactions. Lets say I write a blog and you read my blog daily. It provides you with a good form of information or entertainment so you feel like you want to tip me. Even if it's just $0.25. How do you tip someone a quarter over the internet with cash? Show me an easy way. Bitcoin fulfills this function a lot easier. Now you might say, well it's only $0.25. But what if I have 100,000 readers and they all tip me a quarter? Now we're talking real money. Never talk in absolutes, that's just one easy example of how Bitcoin can be far superior to cash. Title: Re: This article pretty much sums up all invalid arguments against bitcoin Post by: bitcoinminer on February 24, 2014, 08:19:10 PM Lets say I write a blog and you read my blog daily. It provides you with a good form of information or entertainment so you feel like you want to tip me. Even if it's just $0.25. How do you tip someone a quarter over the internet with cash? Show me an easy way. www.paypal.com Title: Re: This article pretty much sums up all invalid arguments against bitcoin Post by: CurbsideProphet on February 24, 2014, 08:55:23 PM Lets say I write a blog and you read my blog daily. It provides you with a good form of information or entertainment so you feel like you want to tip me. Even if it's just $0.25. How do you tip someone a quarter over the internet with cash? Show me an easy way. www.paypal.com Title: Re: This article pretty much sums up all invalid arguments against bitcoin Post by: westkybitcoins on February 24, 2014, 09:19:45 PM Those arguments seem ridiculous. <snip> Cash: "bills only come in fixed denominations, requiring users to maintain a large number of these pieces of paper that must be aggregated to execute a transaction and then re-aggregated to ‘make change’" Solution: We call it a bank card. No change necessary. You completely missed the point of the article. It inverts the situation between bitcoin and "normal" money. It posits a world where electronic currency exchange is how transactions are done (note that Bitcoin is nowhere mentioned, so yes, bank cards can be presumed if you like.) In that world, where people already have Bitcoin/bank cards/whatever, and that's all that exists... you don't see how the idea of fixed denominations might come across as odd? Frankly, I found the article incredibly accurate in portraying how people react to new, somewhat-threatening ideas. Title: Re: This article pretty much sums up all invalid arguments against bitcoin Post by: bitcoinminer on February 24, 2014, 09:34:16 PM Lets say I write a blog and you read my blog daily. It provides you with a good form of information or entertainment so you feel like you want to tip me. Even if it's just $0.25. How do you tip someone a quarter over the internet with cash? Show me an easy way. www.paypal.com He said "How do you tip someone over the internet with cash? Show me an easy way". I don't see anything obtuse about that. Title: Re: This article pretty much sums up all invalid arguments against bitcoin Post by: westkybitcoins on February 25, 2014, 06:12:58 AM Lets say I write a blog and you read my blog daily. It provides you with a good form of information or entertainment so you feel like you want to tip me. Even if it's just $0.25. How do you tip someone a quarter over the internet with cash? Show me an easy way. www.paypal.com He said "How do you tip someone over the internet with cash? Show me an easy way". I don't see anything obtuse about that. It's not "with dollars," it's "with cash." You can't put paper bills (or a quarter) into your USB port and have it pop out at someone else's. Electronic forms of money are superior to cash in that regard. Title: Re: This article pretty much sums up all invalid arguments against bitcoin Post by: CryptoPanda on February 25, 2014, 12:24:10 PM it's well known that the conventional finance instruments can't be used for micro transactions.
Bitcoin (and altcoins) are the only thing we've got so far that can be used for this in a effective way. of course that's not their only use |