Bitcoin Forum

What I don't understand is the many posters on this board that seem to suggest MTGox ISN'T in trouble and that it's all a conspiracy theory to destory them?

Yes, the facts are limited, other than 1 very simple and important fact... MTGox are no longer trading bitcoin withdrawls.

I mean, that's pretty substantial fact don't ya think? All the other exchanges are which shows there's no technical reason why they can't. But they aren't.

They make statement after statement about how they will one day potentially start again, but these statements count for nothing because at the end of the day, they still aren't trading.

For those who are saying MTGox are not in trouble, you are ignoring the one most important simple fact which I stated above. If the company wasn't in trouble, they would have shed a load of cash on fixing the problem quick and moving on......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model#Stages

They are still in the first stage...

I can see MtGox coming back. But what will be the most puzzling thing will be the people that still use that exchange.

Not sure that anybody is defending them
Some folks think MtGox is not as terminal as it is, that's all

Is it me or is MtGOX down?  ???

I'll defend anyone against rumors, amateurish "leaked" documents, and unconfirmed allegations.

It's to everyone's benefit in this community that we have accurate, solid information and not jump to conclusions. Circumstantial evidence is being used to declare MtGox insolvency as a foregone conclusion, rather than just a fairly high likelihood. This is wrong. It is poor reckoning of evidence, even if they do turn out to be insolvent in the end.

Are you telling me MTGox is a business not in trouble? Despite still not trading? Rofl. That is evidence enough. Did you follow the Full Tilt Poker demise?

"Yes, player funds are secure, yes player funds are secure, yes player funds are secure.." - DOJ freezes account: "Ok, player funds weren't secure".

I think it's you.

I'm logged right now. Gox just re-enabled bitcoin withdrawals. Didn't you get the memo? I'm withdrawing bitcoins as we speak.

 :-X

die gox dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee fucking die die die dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Thank god there is another rational adult in this forum. Hold tight kids, don't make me turn this car around!

The "crisis document" is so badly fake it would be laughable in different circumstances, but I fear that many (including myself) have been blinded by either greed or hope over the past couple of weeks.

Stop making fun of the situation. Many people lost a lot of money. I can feel their pains.
MtGox is still giving blank page. Android app seems to be able to pull some info. According to app, Trading volume is "zero."

Leaked paper doesn't look like professional, but so does MtGox. What do you expect? They used to trade some cards.
Don't give victims false hope. Many people are in first stage of grief.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model#Stages

I lost 1.8BTC to some scammers, so I can imagine some victims' pain when they lost 75BTC or more on MtGox.

I also lost some money on this, € 400. Not much, I know, but still. Me making a joke doesn't mean I like this situation, and I'm not one of those guys who wishes everyone to lose their money. Hope everyone gets it back eventually.

edit: And let's not forget it's not sure the money and BTC are really lost. Nothing is sure yet at this moment!

I can see this scenario as well since they were able to cover their holdings by acquiring bitcoins at lower prices if they decide to remain an exchange that is.

The other scenario of a full on retreat is also highly likely.

Not giving anyone false hope. As I said I fear some with funds in Gox since before the lockdown have been blinded by hope and some going wild trading real BTC for Gox BTC by fear: ie despite strange documents appearing etc. it looks like game over.

EDIT: greed!  ;D

So why does what actually happened in reality seem to correspond to what's in the document?  gox.com now points to mtgox.com, which is now a blanked page.  On top of that, they closed their support ticket system.  Someone had to do that deliberately.  Or did trolls somehow fake that, too?

Problem is, good sir, is this is just one of a dozen different problems Gox has had over the years, none of which they have ever been truthful and forth coming about. They never really explained the last theft they had a few years ago, they never explained their deliberate market manipulation, they lied about why they stopped doing USD withdrawals last years, had no good reason why other fiat withdrawals were getting hung up. Now they have been blaming a non issue for withdrawal problems, never reactivating them after getting a so called fix a while ago. Sneaking off to a new location in the middle of the night. About the only thing Gox has ever been somewhat truthful about is the fact that they knowingly and deliberately chose to ignore proper bitcoin network protocol because it didn't serve their needs. Which is precisely why they are in the situation they are in.

Has nothing to do with rumors or circumstantial evidence. It's about years and years of known incompetence, lies and coverups. Given their long shady history, there is no reason to believe otherwise. That is squarely their fault and completely deserved. They deserve no assumptions on innocence. THEY need to be proactively trying to prove everyone wrong (of course they won't because they can't. Same situation they have been in time and time before).

Also, the amateurish "leaked" document is likely real. Real in as much as it came from inside Gox. ALL of their documents are pathetically amateurish looking like they were written by a 16 year old. This has already been discussed to death in other forums. This looks exactly like what they always throw out there. That said, it's fake in that I doubt any of that is the real intention. Like everything else, it's a feel good stall tactic to give people false hope while they finish covering their tracks and pocketing the last few coins and dollars of fiat that are left.

Hmm...  It's a conspiracy theory to say that the leaked document is fake - but....


Conspiracies, conspiracies eh?

It's not about defending Gox. When people make wild claims like the one above with no supporting evidence - then any fair minded person would 'defend' the person being accused. There is no real evidence to say that Gox is trying to steal anyone's money so just repeating that meme.

Gox have fucked up big time, yes. But that could be for many reasons - they've been hacked, they are incompetent, they have bugs in code etc... probably all three of those things, now on top of that the phoney leaked document comes out the same day Mark is 'resigned' - so to save a total collapse of bitcoin, they switched off their system. That's the facts as they seem to be right now.

I very much doubt we've exhausted the worlds supply of idiots, given that only a very small percentage of the population even use Bitcoin

Just put it in a rap song I'm sure some people will remember this
You Just Got Mt. Goxed!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8vCj4DOsHc

I don't understand is why these people lost money?  MtGOx was having issues since last year.  It should be no surprise to anyone paying attention, that they finally succumbed to mis-management/theft whatever?

Was it greed or just a plain clueless actions to leave your funds in a failing exchange?    I moved my funds out as soon as I seen the red flags last October.

Cheers

That pretty much sums it up.

To answer your question though. Yeah, greed. MtGox's purely artificial 15-20% higher than actual worth exchange rate lured a whole lot of people not only to them, but to stay with them.

Even less sympathy for the people who bought into Gox during the last month, believing the never ending Gox lies that everything would by fine, trying to buy up loads of cheap BTC to dump elsewhere once withdrawals were reactivated.

Some people just care more about the dollar signs in their eyes than the truth that is in their face.

The early signs were already on the wall back in May/June '13. By July/Aug '13, solvency was already a valid question to be asking. By Oct/Nov '13 when all (not just USD) fiat withdrawals were becoming problematic was when it couldn't be any clearer that there were problems there. Yet people still kept dumping BTC there and trying to get fiat out.  ???

Even now despite this most recent announcement of what amounts to bankruptcy proceedings, there are STILL people that insist Gox is returning and everyone is going to get everything back. And I'm like really? Did they even READ the statement. Even the creditors aren't going to get everything back, dafuq makes them think customers are getting anything back at all? Some people are just like that.  ::)

... of the rectum from which you are pulling them, yeah, mr. Know-it-all Prophet.

They're not liquidating all assets and paying back only what they can (less than the total), they are actually looking to restart business in order to reach the capacity to pay back everything. This is not how bankruptcy proceedings work. But Gox haters gonna hate and keep spreading FUD.

Right back atcha, liar.

"In order to increase repayments to our creditors, it is necessary to explore the possibility of having MtGox Co., Ltd. continue its business. This is why the civil rehabilitation procedure has been chosen, Rebuilding MtGox Co., Ltd under the supervision of the court in a legally organized procedure while giving proper explanations will not be for the sole benefit of the company but for that of the whole bitcoin community."

www.mtgox.com

They lost 750k bitcoins, that means for them to pay everybody back they need 750k coins to be deposit or have the cash in hand.


2 years their profit was 2.5Mln made by their trading fee's.
Last year their profit was 1.3Mln also made by trading fee's.

So the average was 1.9 Mln per year in profits, that will take them close to 200 Years to pay it off, if they used every single dime they get in fee's.


750k * 500(lowered from 568, that its right now)  = $375,000,000.00


$375,000,000.00
$    1,900,000.00
----------------------
       197.xx years.



Right now, what Im seeing is they will ONLY BE PAYING those who had FIAT, others who had Crypto, they will reset your account to 0.

^Did you even read Mtgox.com?

The people defending MtGox are the ones with money in it.  Usually lots of money.  I remember when MtGox stopped trades a week ago and then the site disappeared we still had posts that maybe MtGox were upgrading their system or updating the site so they had to pull it down.  Now we have people hanging into every phrase, every word that the CEO utters and interpreting it the best way possible.  "Bitcoins 'temporarily unavailable', so you're saying there's a chance!......"  Yeah, and I'm a temporarily embarrassed millionaire.

Many people (myself included) moved bitcoins out of MtGox when they became uneasy with the service.  For me personally it was the requirement in mid 2013 to send in passports and other ID just to get cash withdrawals.  Umm, no thanks.  Zip, all bitcoins pulled out never to return.

The unfortunate thing is if everyone tried to pull their money and bitcoins out of MtGox the crash would have happened anyway, just sooner.  May 2013, late 2013, or February 2014, it was inevitable that many people would be caught up and have their savings confiscated. 

http://cdn.knightlab.com/libs/timeline/latest/embed/index.html?source=0AtTCgM8sLx3UdHNCeWdlZHBhNjVXQ1dtSWhUQm04LVE looks pretty damning to me (and was, for me, in 2011)

For starters if you do the math using the number of Bitcoin's MtGox has reported that went missing if happen since 2011 MtGox would have lost 409 Bitcon's a day; granted Bitcoin's didn't have the same value back then 409 still have alerted accounting (if they were doing any) that money was missing at the end of the month. But lets say the lost the coins later on, losing 750k of coins over 2 to 3 years is a lot that any accountant would see it.

So yes it's speculated that Mark likely cooked MtGox books and embezzled the money. Filing for bankruptcy costs money, for an individual it costs about $30k here in Canada, for a company it costs a lot more. Plus all the extra stuff we are seeing not that MtGox has filed in court is costing them big time. So where are they getting the money? Is Mark using the embezzled money to pay for it? These are serious questions people need ask!

That is an assumption.
Presented as lost to the customers, sure, but it would be a weird universe if mister karpeles didn't know where the funds are.

You remember the whole Pirate thing? How long people were in denial before they accepted it? Yeah, pretty much the same thing happening here.

+1

LMAO. You are so right.  These retards were defending GOX last year when the signs were there. I received so many nasty PM's whenever I questioned GOX.

The MODs would always move my posts whenever I posted something that appeared to question whether GOX was solvent or not.

Guess those MODs don't have a pot to piss in now. LMAO.   

Mt. Gox itself (i.e. Karpeles) is still in denial. Read their statement today:

"In order to increase repayments to our creditors, it is necessary to explore the possibility of having MtGox Co., Ltd. continue its business. This is why the civil rehabilitation procedure has been chosen, Rebuilding MtGox Co., Ltd under the supervision of the court in a legally organized procedure while giving proper explanations will not be for the sole benefit of the company but for that of the whole bitcoin community. All efforts will now be made to restore the business and recover damages to repay debts to creditors. We hope for the understanding and cooperation of all."

That's totally unrealistic. Mt. Gox will never be a functioning business again.

That's why it's important to have legal efforts underway to take control of what's left of Mt. Gox away from Karpeles by converting the "civil rehabilitation" into a trustee and creditor controlled bankruptcy. Before Karpeles steals what's left.

Yeah, the legal issues and lawsuits with another bitcoin company to the tune of $75 million dollars, trouble with the US goverment, $5 million dollars of assets being seized and their association with Silkroad, USD fiat withdrawals not working for 9 months... I'm pulling that out of my ass I guess.

Or are you just so thick, you think things like that are normal business and mean nothing?

I mean really, what drugs are you on where you can say "Hey, $75 million dollar lawsuit, $5 million seized, in trouble with the US government, laundering drug money and I can never get my cash out, that sounds like the perfect company for me to invest in!"  ::) ::) ::)



"In order to increase repayments to our creditors, it is necessary to explore the possibility of having MtGox Co., Ltd. continue its business."

Do you comprehend the meaning of that statement?

Explore the possibility does not equal is reopening. It means it's something being looked at as a possible plan, maybe, if it's doable and can make sufficient return. As presently, their debt is nearly double their assets, and everyone already knows the creditors will likely never agree to a settlement of such a loss.

If they manage to get it back on line, it's profitability is still going to rely on people using it, and who is going to continue to use them? Well, besides shill's like yourself. Unless you're a billionaire, I doubt your trades are going to help save the company. No. If they do and if everyone's account's aren't zeroed out, most people are going to pull their assets and jump ship as soon as the window is opened. That is all most people are waiting for right now.


Yeah, sure, whatever.

Keep in mind that is only factoring in the yen, not bitcoins.

That's in Fiat debt, they failed to included Crypto into their debt. Being that its not a BTC LEGAL asset or has value in the face of the Government and system.

Im going base on what the company attorneys stated.  Now, I know its impossible to loose that much Crypto and don't even notice it.

I wasn't here when Pirate 40, thing happened, I did hover read on it  afew weeks ago.  Read allot of comments saying everything was okay...

He took 500k bitcoins, back then it wasn't much.