Bitcoin Forum

I feel like no one seems to care about Premines anymore. Recently Mintcoin got pumped up pretty high by many individuals, no one seeming to care about the now 170 thousand dollars they gave some guy.

What do you guys think? Are small premines an exception? Should premines just go?

to be fair, that 170 thousand dollars was worth 20 times less 1 week ago. The devs continue to work very hard on the coin, even tho it was at 3 satoshi. So, I guess their continuous hard work paid off.

So should all devs premine for quick profit potential?

Personally I think this "fair distribution" model is absolute bullshit. Devs spreading valueless money just to get people hyped up enough to pump up their coin. The act of premining inflates and devalues the currency.

Almost every developer is creating his coin for a profit. This is acceptable. They don't create for you to dumping coins at first exchange.

So % 0.25 is ok.

There are other ways to make profit. Ways that yes take more effort than premining, but those efforts have the potential to skyrocket the coin and make the dev a stable income rather than a risky attempt at some big one time cash before the coin dies out.

I don't mind a completely transparent premine, though if it isn't in the hands of a trustworthy dev, it's getting dumped.

If you create a coin, which ways do you prefer to make a stable income? Donations, services, maybe..

I can't see any profit if you don't have a gpu or gpu farm.

You could have bought 50000 premines using one bitcoin. Now you can't.

I don't mind an upfront premine as long as the release is fair for everyone. It's better than stating 0% premine and then instamining all the low diff blocks by withholding the wallet or not having any pools setup where everyone can start mining at the same time. There's more than one way to skin a cat ;)

I am against premining. But in some ways a very small premine could be justified. If you look how LTC BTC or XPM manifested itself in the crypto community, then I would say that there is no reason to premine at all.

My ideal solution would be 0.25 % of every block, but no premine.

So there would be some funds for promotion and marketing (at the beginning), and the developer will stay around - could consider it his private pension fund :).

PS: Furthermore a developer, who believes in his coin does not need any premine.
If he wants to earn, he rents mining equipment for - lets say 10 for BTC - sets up a cron job 1 second after launch and he will "earn" a lot of coins - because he has "insider knowledge" - but that requires some initial investment.

If the coin is just copy and paste, then it might be too much. But if someone sets hundrets of hours into this coin, a premine would be fine. Also in that way: If I have many coins I have an incentive to improve this coin.

All coins are pretty much clones

Pre mines are ok

It's IPO's with no proof of concept for coin that needs to be banned

"Hi I make coin, gief me BTC"

That's literally you need to do these days to make BTC, I'm almost tempted to make some bullshit coin myself

premine sucks bruh

under 1% can be accepted

Not if the premine is being used for development of the coin and improving services, getting on exchanges and promotion.

As long as it's fully transparent then there should be no issue providing it's a max of 2%

Even trustworthy devs dump.

You know that doesn't take much money right?

No Premine unless all is given away for free and transparently like it was in PremineCoin (PMC).

"preminecoin" died buddy

LOL says whom??

The coin and its community are both alive and well.

Says the 170k market cap and under 10k volume. It's not like PREMINEcoin is going anywhere, seriously guys?

But that's quite impressive for a coin where only the tax fees are minable and the biggest exchange was down half of the day. This coin is undervalued at the moment and the price rises nearly everyday. No exactly what I would call dead.

It's quite low(rank 74), the price is volatile so I wouldn't say it's "rising", and it's called fucking preminecoin.

Please.

EDIT: Rank 77

Looks like no premine is the way to go.

All premine coins are garbage. There haven't been any exceptions to date. I've only ever mined them to dump and buy real coins with innovation. Currently, all these shitcoins are just an agreed-upon pump and dump game. Some win, some lose. But everyone's convinced themselves that they'll be on winning side. Cognitive biases are funny.

The market will learn over the course of a year, I think. This is a transient phase. The idea itself is just comedy. Something is supposed to become a universally accepted exchange medium, yet 1 guy starts with something on the order of 1% of the total supply? LOL. Even the USD, with all its inequality, doesn't have that.

The Price will stabilize itself  at a point because there is no inflation at all, no new coins to be dumped are generated and more committed Members of the Community are buying the scarce Coins from less committed Members. The Name.. yes the Name doesn't make it easy because it sounds provocative to many miners. But oh well, maybe even that can be useful to get a Coin known.

Concur.

Premine is no difference to fiat money whereas bankers create money out of thin air. Coins needs to be mined, the work and cost involved in mining creates value in the coin. Premine is just an excuse for developers to get rich quick.

Finally someone here with a brain. Tired of being called a troll.

Mintcoin with a 1% premine is better than topcoin's 6 hour instamine equivalent of 6% premine. Both are probably going to be more sucessful than a no premine coin that doesn't have a good community or commited developers. I am a speculative miner and I mine things that I think will be valuable when eventually exchanged, most of the times I win it is with a coin that has been premined or otherwise topheavy. Don't get too hung up on how much the dev is going to make or you will lose potential profits for yourself. Ideally, I'd like to see a small premine 0.05% or less, and low reward blocks until he network is stabalized to prevent instamining, but I'll mine anything I think I can profit from by being earlier than the next guy.

Good coin, good community, with no premine > "Good" coin, good community, with premine

I don't think they should premine for quick profits...but in order to supply services and grow the coin OUTSIDE of crypto...it is essential..TeslaCoin had a 3% premine which is STILL HELD by the core developers....when things like promotional videos cost upwards of 50,000 coins(for a professional production)....exchanges get paid...website development and hosting....etc...do you really expect the DEVS to do this with only what they MINE? while the miners just mine and dump? that doesnt set up a very fair playing field imho....especially with the amount of competition these days....

I don't like premines. Most premined coins are shit.

Please let me know how a coin developer can pay for a business, lawyer, accountant, updates, development etc for a coin if there is no premine?

If you take out the lawyer, accountant, developer and just wing it...how can you just keep updating the coin and do all the things necessary to advertise and support the coin in the future with no money?

I am not coming at you.  I just have a legitimate question for you.

lol PATHETIC lol

Which is why, if you want to have a legitimate, successful coin, you'll have a proper business plan, etc. which will have all of these problems solved for you ;)

Away with scammy little shitcoins.

lol PATHETIC lol
[/quote]

That's your answer?

In my opinion, It looks like the arguments for a minute premine is much more favorable than the arguments, or lack of, against premining.

Interesting.

Do those who think premining have a  constructive answer to show how a coin will work with a true 0 premine/instamine?

What I gather from these posts against premining is that those who don't premine can have a successful coin only if the developer is also a designer, security expert, hacker, accountant, marketer, advertiser, web developer, attorney and bank all in one.  AND he has no other job and money in his bank to just throw at an alt coin.  Now that is a good plan. 

And then I too agree 0 premine can be successful with that guy.

There is always an exception to the rule of course.

i didnt mien many cins due to premien and lost...

this days premien is normal and we have to stick with it.

We didn't pre mine and we're proud of that fact :)

We're also working to ensure the future of the coin and will be forking in the next few days reducing the number of coins being mined every day by ~80%. Strong coin, strong community, no pre mine :)

I feel you need a balance of everything

He doesn't have to pay for this stuff with premine. He can simply pay them with the coins he mines legitimately. Coin creator knows exactly when the coin will be released and could take advantage of that. I don't know exactly why a coin creator would have to pay for "bussiness", "lawyer", "accountant". I don't know why he would have to pay these with premined coins, when he could simply pay with his money.

If you start a bussiness, you have some expenses in the beggining too. Most of people with brain already made a lot of money with bitcoin, so there is no need for premine.

A coin creator doesn't have to pay for updates, because he makes the updates in his spare time. Advertising coin on reddit and bitcointalk cost 0. Most coins don't get advertissed beyond reddit and bitcointalk.


Coin creation is pretty much free. And if you can't compile the code yourself, you can pay 0.1 btc or less to somoene who can compile it for you. If you need a premine for 0.1btc, that only show that you are poor and you shouldn't be making a coin.


If your question is legit, you are either noob in crypto (nothing wrong with that) or **** ** ****.

Rofl & facepalm.

This idea has it's basis in an outdated 18th century economic philosophy labor theory of value. Modern analysis has concluded that value is completely subjective and arrived at by consensus.

This is one of the core concepts behind cryptocurrencies. You guys just want coins you can join in on the pump and dump like a feeding frenzy. You don't care about creating real value for a currency, which is derived from it's utility to a community and the consensus agreement about that utility that makes exchange possible.

Totally full of shit theorizing IMHO.  

We had a team of several people, C++ dev, web/gfx designer, someone with some marketing knowledge. We all work in the I.T industry. We needed to invest very little (just some money for servers to kick things off). No pre mine required, pre mines are just needed to make a quick buck, we mined some and used this for a couple of bountys but we pretty much did everything ourselves so there wasn't a need to pay third partys, now we have the backing of a great community who are all interested in seeing the coin succeed.

Thank you KlondikeCoin.  A legitimate point.

Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with a premine, at least in cases where devs took the time to develop a coin and obviously care to see it progress.  I see it as having a stake in a product, legitimate businesses do it.  Founders, CEOs, a lot of big wigs have large stakes in their companies, why should cryptocurrency be any different?  Because it has low/no startup costs?  I don't buy that argument, after all, isn't a person's time worth something?  Besides, it's not like it changes anything inherent within the currency itself.  A currency with a purpose will continue to have a purpose as long as people give it one.

I've said it once before, I don't mind if someone profits with an idea that can change the world for the better, and I sure as heck don't mind if someone profits in the process of helping me see profit.  Everyone who makes the premine argument seems so focused on what they're putting in other people's pockets, and what's more, they seem so hurt by it.  Why?  Granted, I can see why getting burned by a dev who used you as a platform to make some quick cash can be frustrating, but should that really condemn the other creators who are actually trying to do something with a crypto?  Is it really that bad to see someone get paid for their efforts?

+1

Most coins are "developed" through cut and pasting, doesn't take much for a dev to start his own alt coin.

IMO anything above 0.5% premine is rubbish. Most of those coins don't go to "marketing and promotion" anyway.

I Don't see many CEO's working for 'pride'.
Am fully supportive of 1% so as it's used wisely and that builders premine is held in escrow.
The price should reach goal points to release parts of his premine.
This incentivises a team to work smartly, inflates a coin over time instead of a day, and does away with P n D's.

Yes this basically what is happening now, devs say no premine then have broken wallet links and no pools working for many hours giving them the premine.

Small premines are ok if done in a honorable way problem is too many greedy people spoil it for everyone else by dumping their huge premine before the coin even has a chance

jayman
You hit the nail on the head!!!!!  I wish everyone in the crypto community could wake up see this.  Premining or broken pools is just the way it has to be done.    I would never have broken pools, I would just let people know there is a premine and all the stakeholders would sign an public legally enforceable agreement to not pump and dump.  I wont name the coins that say they did not premine, but this is exactly what 99 percent of all coins have done.  They are doing a "fair launch," but its just premining.  

agreed.

Honestly, you guys put no faith in the market.  Premine or no premine, it doesn't matter.  It's not like you premine and instantly get 120 BTC.  If no one buys, no one gets paid.  So who cares, let people premine or not premine.  The market (you), will decide.  Honestly, the number of coins out there, you have no reason to care. 

But......now everyone wants some 0 day action.  That's the only reason people care about "premine."  They want as much of the 0 day mining as possible.  It's not like before all the Alts when you would just try to get the most out of your miner.  Now everyone just wants the most out of that [ANN].

And on another note, PMC is a great coin.  I personally like the idea of it. 

This!