Bitcoin Forum

 

https://twitter.com/The_K_meister/status/439325163700502529
 

oooh, going to be buy or sell, that's the question.

Mark must be getting a tonne of pressure from all his religious brothers at Bitcoin talk

Mark the Aussie Feds are about to rip us to pieces give those dam coins back you fat fk

making a statement to whom?   the protestors?   the media?

WSJ is also reporting that a press conference is imminent.

online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303801304579410010379087576?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702303801304579410010379087576.html

Well, the tweet says to the press...

https://twitter.com/misssaxbys

Buy? BUY BUY BUY wait no SELL SELL SELL! The community at the moment ^

*DJ Mt. Gox Lawyer: Outstanding Debt Y6.5B
*DJ Mt. Gox Lawyer: Filed For Bankruptcy Protection
*DJ Mt. Gox Lawyer: Accepted By Tokyo District Court

So around $ 60 mln outstanding debt

They filed for bankruptcy protection.

https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/439333233013309440

they still have the coin  ???

you cannot file for Bankruptcy when your guilty of Fraud

if the Japaneses government accepts this they are Liable for 100% of the losses

do a search of your official Mtgox addresses the coin is still in there

I found 6000 with a brief search  ???

That's it boys and girls, the fat lady has sung. Whoever had bitcoin and/fiat in MtGOX has officially lost every satoshi/cent.

Only $60mln?  The BS out of gox continues.

Well, either they are fucked, so I sell my coin before they tank, or they are fine so I buy some coin before they rocket. Not hard

Oh, they're fucked, temporarily into fiat.

All I want is more coins, nothign wrong with that.

DJ Mt. Gox Files for Bankruptcy Protection





By Eleanor Warnock and Takashi Mochizuki
     TOKYO--A lawyer for Mt. Gox announced at a news conference at the Tokyo
District Court that the embattled bitcoin exchange was filing for bankruptcy
protection and that Mt. Gox had outstanding debt of about Yen6.5 billion ($63.6
million).
     The exchange has been under fire from investors since it stopped bitcoin
withdrawals in early February, citing a technical issue that potentially made
fraudulent withdrawals possible.
     On Tuesday, Mt. Gox, which at one point handled more than 80% of trades in
the virtual currency, stopped all transactions, dealing the severest blow to
the bitcoin industry yet and raised concerns about a lack of protection for
users. Several Mt. Gox investors say they have little hope of recovering their
funds, with some individual investors saying they had bitcoins valued at
hundreds of thousands of dollars in Mt. Gox.
     Atsuko Fukase contributed to this article
     Write to Eleanor Warnock at eleanor.warnock@wsj.com and Takashi Mochizuki
at takashi.mochizuki@wsj.com
 
Subscribe to WSJ: http://online.wsj.com?mod=djnwires

  (END) Dow Jones Newswires
  February 28, 2014 04:50 ET (09:50 GMT)
  Copyright (c) 2014 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.- - 04 50 AM EST 02-28-14
 
-----------------------------====================------------------------------
                              Copyright (c) 2014

Do you even know what Bankruptcy protection is? Let me give you a clue, it doesn't mean the don't have any money.

"Bankruptcy protection" is the process by which a debtor is "protected" by a court while they reorganize their finances.

Protected from what? Protected from excessively hasty or harassing creditor actions, such as foreclosures, repossessions, law suits, harassing telephone calls, and the like. A more accurate lay-terminology for filing for "bankruptcy protection" would be filing for "financial reorganization" or "financial restructuring" under Chapter 7 or Chapter 13.

Your talking to someone who has studied just about every major bankruptcy filing in the last 20 years

he still has the coin ? check your official Mtgox addresses so he dosn't want to give it back so he is Bankrupt  ???

I have no doubt the actual filings will be made public by the media soon.  If they've lost access to their cold wallets - as some have theorised - that could explain why the nominal debt is only $60 million.  The cold wallets would still technically count as an asset.

You haven't studied them very well it seems or you know that you don't need to have no assets in order to be insolvent.

MtGox has not previously stated that they didn't have any Bitcoin.  That's something which the community latched onto based on various pieces of information provided by others.

They have a USD deficit of over $20 million.  It's perfectly possible for them to have a lot of Bitcoin and still be short another $40 million even when the BTC in known MtGox accounts are taken into account.

They have $63 mln more liabilities than assets.... i.e. they can't give everyone 100% back

this is turning into a freak show that would hardly have been enough to cause bankruptcy

just goes too show the corrupt bankers have accepted defeat now every million they can con

out of you is a plus

Do we have any more information regarding the statement? What about the exact nature of the liabilities? anything?

They didn't file for bankruptcy, they filed for bankruptcy protection; huge difference.

I guess you missed that class that one day, huh?

Who got bitcoins on the exchange? Is it going to get something?

Best regards,
ilpirata79

I don't think so, why the fu.ck would the fat ass give back something at this point.

This should be interesting, I  wonder what the real reason is behind this debt. Considering they haven't filed for bankruptcy yet, there may be a way they can recover the funds, they are just not currently accessible. Also, this means that they are likely going to try to come back.

Seems plausible:

http://goxbalance.com/

*DJ Mt. Gox Lawyer: 750,000 Bitcoin Held by Clients, 100,000 Held by Mt. Gox Mostly Missing
*DJ Mt. Gox Lawyer: Missing Bitcoin May Have Been Withdrawn Through System

Well, it is more likely than if they had filed for bankruptcy but no one actually knows.

Very true, but if they really have lost the keys then that asset is certainly not worth 100 cents on the dollar.  Or yen.  Or whatever.

this is a big scam going on here no information is being made public at all

no keys have been lost that is ridiculous where did you get this information ?

*DJ Mt. Gox Lawyer: Mt. Gox Assets Y3.84B
*DJ Mt. Gox Lawyer: Will Cooperate With Japanese Authorities Into Investigating What Happened

If true they have more than half of their liabilities at book. Worst case scenario would be creditors getting 50% back.

We'll see the veracity of claims in the near future.

Where is the official press release? are we basing all these posts on some tweets and the WSJ link?

I'm pretty surprised to learn that's only $60 million. In this case many people can bail it out. Just not sure how they calculate the value of bitcoin. I guess $130/BTC?

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/videonews/fnn?a=20140228-00000938-fnn-bus_all

I guess they haven't even considered lost bitcoins.

Best regards,
ilpirata79

*CALL CENTER WILL BE SET UP FOR MT. GOX CUSTOMERS

for the sake of filing for bankruptcy protection they will have had to count coins in hand as an assett. I would guess at 130 USD / BTC as that was closing price.

This would make sense as to why they let out no info, closed withdrawals and let the price tank. It was in their interest. The lower the price of each coin on their balance sheet, the lower their debt would be when filing for protection.

*MT. GOX CEO MARK KARPELES APOLOGIZES AFTER FIRM'S BANKRUPTCY

But I think an action like this is illegal and the court will calculate with the "real" fair price when they are closed, which is about 500

What do you mean? So you think that in the 64 millions of debt also lost bitcoins are counted? i would hope so, but...

Best regards,
ilpirata79

Quite possibly, hard to guess really without seeing the filing documents. I am sure they will come out.

That's not the worst case scenario at all.  We don't know if the filing even includes BTC.  We do know that fees involved in sorting out business bankruptcies tend to chew through enormous amounts of remaining assets and that unsecured creditors typically receive little or no return.

Without access to the information contained in the filings, all we know for sure is that legal actions in Japan will now be stayed (and legal actions initiated outside Japan will likely be rendered futile).

You are right, it was a massive simplification on my part.

I would be amazed if the asset and debt didn't include BTC. The court would throw it out in a second.

Although it's logical to assume that, we honestly won't know until the filings are made public exactly what's going on, what's included and what's not, and exactly what MtGox has sought.

I want to see those filings just as much as everyone else, although I suspect that no matter what they indicate people are still going to be unhappy with the information and believe that the process "should" be handled differently.  It's a novel case, so even the lawyers who filed on behalf of MtGox are still only guessing about how BTC liabilities will be addressed during the process.

As claimed in the Crisis plan, they have:

Assets: 32,430,000 USD + 2,000 BTC
Liabilities: 55,000,000 USD + 744,408 BTC

Now they say they have assets of 3.84B JPY = 37.71M USD and liabilities of 6.5B JPY = 63.84M USD

So solving the equations:

32430000 + 2000 A = 37710000

A = 2640 (USD/BTC)


55000000 + 744408 B = 63840000

B = 11.87 (USD/BTC)

So there must be something wrong with the crisis plan figures

Good news. It's always better to stayin touch.

Agree entirely.

That's correct. Even if it is true that he was stolen, he still frauded his customers by pretending to have their funds and creating a ponzi.

I am far from convinced that crisis plan was anything other than a made up crock of shit.

I mean it was claimed to be an internal document but stated in it that "to stop Gox going under (although god knows they deserve to)"

and

on one page the mountain logo of Gox had a goat sat on top of it.

Not convinced by it at all.

No, something isn't right.

I've not gone through all the details carefully, was the 744,000BTC ever corroborated? That's a LOT of BTC. This would only be possible if they had lost coins they claimed were in cold storage. If so, how were they lost? Were they really in cold storage?

Anyone believe he was stole? It was too much over a long period, impossible i think. I believe he was just using everyone's funds for his own profit and did shit. Or maybe he just sold at profit, hide it in Switzerland and then created the ponzi.

steal 350 mil in bitcoin .. file for protection so you dont get sued pay down 60mil in debt sell to some other sucker and walk off with 290 mil ....

But the lawyer really claims that they have lost 750000 customer's coins. Even at $100 each that would be $74M. But now they say their outstanding debt is only $63.84M, including fiat. Just don't add up.

Maybe the outstanding debt has already deducted the assets? That would make the total liability as $101,550,000 and $135.4/BTC, exactly the closing price. (However, this assume they have no fiat liability.....)

Don't forget Dwolla and US account seizures.

Seppuku is an old Japanese tradition isn't it?

The figure of $63 million seems to refer only to their liquid liabilities.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101455170

It's possible that of the 744k BTC lost, MtGox has enough coins in cold storage to cover all but the $64 million he's filing for.

That being said I still hope his ass winds up in jail over criminal negligence or something.  Losing tens of millions of dollars of other people's money because you don't know how to read a fucking ledger should be a crime.

No, the $63.6 million is liquid liabilities - so it's basically the cash liabilities.

As free market libertarians, shouldn't we just say that the market will sort this out? It will create a market demand for mechanisms that allow exchanges to demonstrate their solvency.

Or a demand for decentralised exchanges. Or both.

Stop using such logic, this is no time to be thinking that way! People are here hurt, crying and pleading for government/fed/law enforcement/lawyers/etc. to save their money; once that happens I'm sure they'll be fine and back on track saying the market will sort stuff out (as long as it benefits them that is).

What makes you assume everyone who uses Bitcoin is a "free market libertarian"?

Well, anyone who wants a state distorted market is welcome to stick to those markets.