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Title: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: studio1one on February 28, 2014, 10:04:38 AM Gox have filed for protection from bankruptcy, not bankruptcy itself.
This is done when a company believes given time they can restructure and become solvent again. Read the difference. http://www.differencebetween.net/business/difference-between-bankruptcy-and-bankruptcy-protection/ Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: Bitcoinpro on February 28, 2014, 10:12:23 AM ok now the BS machine is in over drive
people who have lost their funds may as well start listening to me :D So many legal wrongs here it is not funny, Does he have the coin or not ? what are the official Mtgox ADDRESSES what is the balance of his Bank accounts ??? Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: studio1one on February 28, 2014, 10:14:30 AM ok now the BS machine is in over drive people who have lost their funds may as well start listening to me :D So many legal wrongs here it is not funny, Does he have the coin or not ? what are the official Mtgox ADDRESSES what is the balance of his Bank accounts ??? The fact is no one, including you, knows the situation. The only fact is that Gox have claimed they believe they can restructure and become solvent again. This may or may not be true, any statements of fact whether it is true or not here are not fact but supposition. Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: Bitcoinpro on February 28, 2014, 10:23:07 AM ok now the BS machine is in over drive people who have lost their funds may as well start listening to me :D So many legal wrongs here it is not funny, Does he have the coin or not ? what are the official Mtgox ADDRESSES what is the balance of his Bank accounts ??? The fact is no one, including you, knows the situation. The only fact is that Gox have claimed they believe they can restructure and become solvent again. This may or may not be true, any statements of fact whether it is true or not here are not fact but supposition. I have searched official Mtgox addresses so I do have proof I have watched for years the collusion between this forum and Gox its a scammers paradise, have you ever heard of TF these guys the forum mods backed him up like a pharaoh even an Australian newpaper reported a story on TF without even reading his posts first http://img.dictionary.com/pharaoh-167129-285-400.jpg Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: studio1one on February 28, 2014, 10:25:30 AM ok now the BS machine is in over drive people who have lost their funds may as well start listening to me :D So many legal wrongs here it is not funny, Does he have the coin or not ? what are the official Mtgox ADDRESSES what is the balance of his Bank accounts ??? The fact is no one, including you, knows the situation. The only fact is that Gox have claimed they believe they can restructure and become solvent again. This may or may not be true, any statements of fact whether it is true or not here are not fact but supposition. I have searched official Mtgox addresses so I do have proof I have watched for years the collusion between this forum and Gox its a scammers paradise, have you ever heard of TF these guys the forum mods backed him up like a pharaoh even an Australian newpaper reported a story on TF without even reading his posts first http://img.dictionary.com/pharaoh-167129-285-400.jpg You have proof they have some coin. That's it. You don't have proof of their asset v liabilities balance sheet and what and how their current financial situation is. A wise man would wait and see what happens and what information comes out, not jump to conclusions that he knows everything already. Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: repentance on February 28, 2014, 10:26:17 AM The Japanese legal system is not the US legal system.
Had rehabilitation (restructuring or trading out) been the objective of the filing, it's unlikely that the lawyer would have used the term bankruptcy at all (bankruptcy implies liquidation in Japan). http://www.bingham.com/Publications/Files/2012/02/A-Practical-Guide-to-Japanese-Insolvency-Procedures The immediate staying of legal actions by creditors tends to be the most immediate effect of insolvencies in general. It doesn't imply that there's any hope of a company being restructured. Until someone gets hold of the filings and translates them, assumptions about the possibility of MtGox seeking to/being able to restructure are pure speculation. Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: studio1one on February 28, 2014, 10:31:48 AM The Japanese legal system is not the US legal system. Had rehabilitation (restructuring or trading out) been the objective of the filing, it's unlikely that the lawyer would have used the term bankruptcy at all (bankruptcy implies liquidation in Japan). http://www.bingham.com/Publications/Files/2012/02/A-Practical-Guide-to-Japanese-Insolvency-Procedures The immediate staying of legal actions by creditors tends to be the most immediate effect of insolvencies in general. It doesn't imply that there's any hope of a company being restructured. Until someone gets hold of the filings and translates them, assumptions about the possibility of MtGox seeking to/being able to restructure are pure speculation. There have been a lot of bankruptcy protection cases in Japan that have been specifically for restructuring and trading out of trouble Elpida did it http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/db64c462-6127-11e1-8a8e-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2ubyBpEyo Japanese Airlines did it http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8466997.stm From what I can gather bankruptcy protection in Japan is just the same as US / EU Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: repentance on February 28, 2014, 10:37:49 AM The Japanese legal system is not the US legal system. Had rehabilitation (restructuring or trading out) been the objective of the filing, it's unlikely that the lawyer would have used the term bankruptcy at all (bankruptcy implies liquidation in Japan). http://www.bingham.com/Publications/Files/2012/02/A-Practical-Guide-to-Japanese-Insolvency-Procedures The immediate staying of legal actions by creditors tends to be the most immediate effect of insolvencies in general. It doesn't imply that there's any hope of a company being restructured. Until someone gets hold of the filings and translates them, assumptions about the possibility of MtGox seeking to/being able to restructure are pure speculation. There have been a lot of bankruptcy protection cases in Japan that have been specifically for restructuring and trading out of trouble Elpida did it http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/db64c462-6127-11e1-8a8e-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2ubyBpEyo Japanese Airlines did it http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8466997.stm From what I can gather bankruptcy protection in Japan is just the same as US / EU I just think everyone should wait until the actual filings become public before making any optimistic assumptions about this announcement. The financial media will no doubt go through the filings with a fine tooth comb and will certainly report on whether or not restructuring was even mentioned as a possibility in the filings. Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: grifferz on February 28, 2014, 10:40:09 AM I just think everyone should wait until the actual filings become public before making any optimistic assumptions about this announcement. The financial media will no doubt go through the filings with a fine tooth comb and will certainly report on whether or not restructuring was even mentioned as a possibility in the filings. My gut feeling is one of disappointment that MtGox will potentially gain more time to trade and leave people hanging with the glimmer of hope that they will ever see a cent or satoshi back. I feel like it would be much better for us all if there was a clean break.Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: studio1one on February 28, 2014, 10:41:12 AM The Japanese legal system is not the US legal system. Had rehabilitation (restructuring or trading out) been the objective of the filing, it's unlikely that the lawyer would have used the term bankruptcy at all (bankruptcy implies liquidation in Japan). http://www.bingham.com/Publications/Files/2012/02/A-Practical-Guide-to-Japanese-Insolvency-Procedures The immediate staying of legal actions by creditors tends to be the most immediate effect of insolvencies in general. It doesn't imply that there's any hope of a company being restructured. Until someone gets hold of the filings and translates them, assumptions about the possibility of MtGox seeking to/being able to restructure are pure speculation. There have been a lot of bankruptcy protection cases in Japan that have been specifically for restructuring and trading out of trouble Elpida did it http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/db64c462-6127-11e1-8a8e-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2ubyBpEyo Japanese Airlines did it http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8466997.stm From what I can gather bankruptcy protection in Japan is just the same as US / EU I just think everyone should wait until the actual filings become public before making any optimistic assumptions about this announcement. The financial media will no doubt go through the filings with a fine tooth comb and will certainly report on whether or not restructuring was even mentioned as a possibility in the filings. Agree, just trying to point out that there is a lot of misinformation flying around about what has happened. Just trying to give a little balance. Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: libitum on February 28, 2014, 10:43:45 AM On a side note, Gox filing for bankruptcy protection has not sent btc prices down. I take it as a good signal. Mt.Gox disaster (for which hopefully many people will end up in jail) was not the nuclear bomb to bitcoin that many people were expecting.
Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: Bitcoinpro on February 28, 2014, 10:53:17 AM ok now the BS machine is in over drive people who have lost their funds may as well start listening to me :D So many legal wrongs here it is not funny, Does he have the coin or not ? what are the official Mtgox ADDRESSES what is the balance of his Bank accounts ??? The fact is no one, including you, knows the situation. The only fact is that Gox have claimed they believe they can restructure and become solvent again. This may or may not be true, any statements of fact whether it is true or not here are not fact but supposition. I have searched official Mtgox addresses so I do have proof I have watched for years the collusion between this forum and Gox its a scammers paradise, have you ever heard of TF these guys the forum mods backed him up like a pharaoh even an Australian newpaper reported a story on TF without even reading his posts first http://img.dictionary.com/pharaoh-167129-285-400.jpg You have proof they have some coin. That's it. You don't have proof of their asset v liabilities balance sheet and what and how their current financial situation is. A wise man would wait and see what happens and what information comes out, not jump to conclusions that he knows everything already. just like when i jumped to a conclusion a year ago that the whole company was a complete turd and this forum defended their fugitive buddy Mark aka Magical Tux Toof and Nail :D Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: repentance on February 28, 2014, 10:55:33 AM The Japanese legal system is not the US legal system. Had rehabilitation (restructuring or trading out) been the objective of the filing, it's unlikely that the lawyer would have used the term bankruptcy at all (bankruptcy implies liquidation in Japan). http://www.bingham.com/Publications/Files/2012/02/A-Practical-Guide-to-Japanese-Insolvency-Procedures The immediate staying of legal actions by creditors tends to be the most immediate effect of insolvencies in general. It doesn't imply that there's any hope of a company being restructured. Until someone gets hold of the filings and translates them, assumptions about the possibility of MtGox seeking to/being able to restructure are pure speculation. There have been a lot of bankruptcy protection cases in Japan that have been specifically for restructuring and trading out of trouble Elpida did it http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/db64c462-6127-11e1-8a8e-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2ubyBpEyo Japanese Airlines did it http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8466997.stm From what I can gather bankruptcy protection in Japan is just the same as US / EU I just think everyone should wait until the actual filings become public before making any optimistic assumptions about this announcement. The financial media will no doubt go through the filings with a fine tooth comb and will certainly report on whether or not restructuring was even mentioned as a possibility in the filings. Agree, just trying to point out that there is a lot of misinformation flying around about what has happened. Just trying to give a little balance. There's a thread on reddit in which someone claims that the translation of the news conference reveals that they've filed for civil rehabilitation. Unfortunately, that same translation says they lost 85 million BTC (4 times all the BTC which will ever exist) so I don't regard it as reliable. This pastebin of an IRC chat with Mark earlier today also suggests that he still believes there may be a "way out". pastebin.com/YGr2WTvD The ~ $63 million seems to be liquid liabilities (and so presumably doesn't include BTC). http://www.cnbc.com/id/101455170 Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: bananas on February 28, 2014, 11:23:03 AM I don't believe he will really try to continue with the business, he is delusional.
Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: studio1one on February 28, 2014, 11:43:42 AM The Japanese legal system is not the US legal system. Had rehabilitation (restructuring or trading out) been the objective of the filing, it's unlikely that the lawyer would have used the term bankruptcy at all (bankruptcy implies liquidation in Japan). http://www.bingham.com/Publications/Files/2012/02/A-Practical-Guide-to-Japanese-Insolvency-Procedures The immediate staying of legal actions by creditors tends to be the most immediate effect of insolvencies in general. It doesn't imply that there's any hope of a company being restructured. Until someone gets hold of the filings and translates them, assumptions about the possibility of MtGox seeking to/being able to restructure are pure speculation. There have been a lot of bankruptcy protection cases in Japan that have been specifically for restructuring and trading out of trouble Elpida did it http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/db64c462-6127-11e1-8a8e-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2ubyBpEyo Japanese Airlines did it http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8466997.stm From what I can gather bankruptcy protection in Japan is just the same as US / EU I just think everyone should wait until the actual filings become public before making any optimistic assumptions about this announcement. The financial media will no doubt go through the filings with a fine tooth comb and will certainly report on whether or not restructuring was even mentioned as a possibility in the filings. Agree, just trying to point out that there is a lot of misinformation flying around about what has happened. Just trying to give a little balance. There's a thread on reddit in which someone claims that the translation of the news conference reveals that they've filed for civil rehabilitation. Unfortunately, that same translation says they lost 85 million BTC (4 times all the BTC which will ever exist) so I don't regard it as reliable. This pastebin of an IRC chat with Mark earlier today also suggests that he still believes there may be a "way out". pastebin.com/YGr2WTvD The ~ $63 million seems to be liquid liabilities (and so presumably doesn't include BTC). http://www.cnbc.com/id/101455170 Yup. So much for my optimism. Think I need to reassess my worst case scenario :( Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: bterproblems on February 28, 2014, 11:50:10 AM http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-files-bankruptcy-claims-63-6m-debt/ so which news are correct?
Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: repentance on February 28, 2014, 11:57:29 AM http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-files-bankruptcy-claims-63-6m-debt/ so which news are correct? As far as I can tell, the $63.6 million refers only to their liquid liabilities (basically the debts which are due in cash). www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/28/bitcoin-mtgox-bankruptcy-idUSL3N0LX36C20140228 If that's the case, then the news isn't contradictory. Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: xandriel on February 28, 2014, 12:19:51 PM It would appear to me that Gox are just trying to avoid the US subpoena filed against them.
Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: thelema93 on February 28, 2014, 12:57:01 PM I still think that Mark might be able to find people to revamp Gox as planned.
Obviously he still has possession of many many bitcoins. That is SO fu**ing god damn obvious. The idea that the guy running the world's biggest Bitcoin exchange all of a sudden has NO BITCOINS LEFT!!!!!??? I bloddy well sent some to him just a few weeks ago!. And he had NO COLD STORAGE????!! WTF? THIS IS A LIE He should be arrested for FRAUD, he was still selling Bitcoins AFTER he stopped withdrawals - i.e. AFTER he KNEW (supposedly) that he had no coins to sell - what is that if it isn't plain and simple FRAUD. Selling something you don't have? Anyway I digress... He will wait until the BTC price resurges, sell all his stolen coins and then somehow try to get Gox back online. At least I hope so. I'm suing him anyway though. Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: xandriel on February 28, 2014, 01:20:19 PM I would have to agree. I had not invested anything with Gox, but was thinking about it before I leant about all the btc apparently stuck in the system.
It seems it has been going on for a long, long, time. Although I have not researched this much, I also strongly suspect Mark knows where the 'missing' btc are Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: btc237ftw on February 28, 2014, 02:26:43 PM Guys,
This looks more like a restructure and rebrand now than before... "Bankruptcy Protection" has some similarities to "Bankruptcy" but there is a huge difference... http://www.ehow.com/info_8053559_bankruptcy-vs-bankruptcy-protection.html http://www.differencebetween.net/business/difference-between-bankruptcy-and-bankruptcy-protection/ It is basically a protection from the court to give them time to restructure and remodel and rebrand and re-everything (recode, relocate etc) while investors cannot sue them during that time: http://www.zalkinrevell.com/bankruptcyprotection.html So.. think about it, if they are going to rebrand and start new, what is the next step they need to make? this one. Some evidence: 1. There was a HUGE btc debt erasing for a low $ value in the last weeks of trade on MTGox. (about 350k-400k coins have been erased as debt for a sum of around $63,000,000 - $72,000,000 ($180 per coin). 2. Gox.com redirects to MTGox.com. 3. Gox.com registry shows it was recently changed to the name of Mark Carpeles. 4. Mark said other parties are involved in trying to find a solution to this current problem, its live on mtgox.com 5. It's obvious that not taking a step to save and rescue almost a million MTGox customers can damage Bitcoin severely in the long run, due to more banks not agreeing to work with BTC companies, more regulation straggling Bitcoin businesses, panic from main stream and more. Therefore it is an incentive for big players to intervene. 6. On the document where a rescue plan is discussed and structured, the date for the shut-down of MTGox's website/trade is Japan morning time of the 25th February 25th. The document was released BEFORE the shut down happend, and indeed it was at the time specified. 7. The next step, according to the document is to restructure and Mark to step down. In my view, the chances of that rescue plan to be happening just got a lot bigger. Obviously, I might be wrong, and obviously even if a plan IS happening it doesn't guarantee it will succeed. Anyway, I think you should know and realize that this is (in my opinion) probably what is going on. We should get a statement on MTGox.com website within a week in my opinion. Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: V4Vendettas on February 28, 2014, 02:49:15 PM Guys, This looks more like a restructure and rebrand now than before... "Bankruptcy Protection" has some similarities to "Bankruptcy" but there is a huge difference... http://www.ehow.com/info_8053559_bankruptcy-vs-bankruptcy-protection.html http://www.differencebetween.net/business/difference-between-bankruptcy-and-bankruptcy-protection/ It is basically a protection from the court to give them time to restructure and remodel and rebrand and re-everything (recode, relocate etc) while investors cannot sue them during that time: http://www.zalkinrevell.com/bankruptcyprotection.html So.. think about it, if they are going to rebrand and start new, what is the next step they need to make? this one. Some evidence: 1. There was a HUGE btc debt erasing for a low $ value in the last weeks of trade on MTGox. (about 350k-400k coins have been erased as debt for a sum of around $63,000,000 - $72,000,000 ($180 per coin). 2. Gox.com redirects to MTGox.com. 3. Gox.com registry shows it was recently changed to the name of Mark Carpeles. 4. Mark said other parties are involved in trying to find a solution to this current problem, its live on mtgox.com 5. It's obvious that not taking a step to save and rescue almost a million MTGox customers can damage Bitcoin severely in the long run, due to more banks not agreeing to work with BTC companies, more regulation straggling Bitcoin businesses, panic from main stream and more. Therefore it is an incentive for big players to intervene. 6. On the document where a rescue plan is discussed and structured, the date for the shut-down of MTGox's website/trade is Japan morning time of the 25th February 25th. The document was released BEFORE the shut down happend, and indeed it was at the time specified. 7. The next step, according to the document is to restructure and Mark to step down. In my view, the chances of that rescue plan to be happening just got a lot bigger. Obviously, I might be wrong, and obviously even if a plan IS happening it doesn't guarantee it will succeed. Anyway, I think you should know and realize that this is (in my opinion) probably what is going on. We should get a statement on MTGox.com website within a week in my opinion. Nice post and I am inclined to agree. Disclaimer: I am one of the Goxxed and may not be in full possession of all my marbles while still firmly in the denial stages of grief. Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: Hans0 on February 28, 2014, 02:53:04 PM 1. There was a HUGE btc debt erasing for a low $ value in the last weeks of trade on MTGox. (about 350k-400k coins have been erased as debt for a sum of around $63,000,000 - $72,000,000 ($180 per coin). Source? Proof? Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: btc237ftw on February 28, 2014, 02:59:59 PM Quote 1. There was a HUGE btc debt erasing for a low $ value in the last weeks of trade on MTGox. (about 350k-400k coins have been erased as debt for a sum of around $63,000,000 - $72,000,000 ($180 per coin). Source? Proof? Technically, you are right I can't demonstrate and prove that the buying entity is Gox or related to the new branding, but the fact that so many coins were bought by a buyer that works differently than the way the market usually work is evident. Just look at the charts on http://bitcoinwisdom.com/ Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: Peacefuls on February 28, 2014, 03:49:36 PM Guys, This looks more like a restructure and rebrand now than before... "Bankruptcy Protection" has some similarities to "Bankruptcy" but there is a huge difference... http://www.ehow.com/info_8053559_bankruptcy-vs-bankruptcy-protection.html http://www.differencebetween.net/business/difference-between-bankruptcy-and-bankruptcy-protection/ It is basically a protection from the court to give them time to restructure and remodel and rebrand and re-everything (recode, relocate etc) while investors cannot sue them during that time: http://www.zalkinrevell.com/bankruptcyprotection.html So.. think about it, if they are going to rebrand and start new, what is the next step they need to make? this one. Some evidence: 1. There was a HUGE btc debt erasing for a low $ value in the last weeks of trade on MTGox. (about 350k-400k coins have been erased as debt for a sum of around $63,000,000 - $72,000,000 ($180 per coin). 2. Gox.com redirects to MTGox.com. 3. Gox.com registry shows it was recently changed to the name of Mark Carpeles. 4. Mark said other parties are involved in trying to find a solution to this current problem, its live on mtgox.com 5. It's obvious that not taking a step to save and rescue almost a million MTGox customers can damage Bitcoin severely in the long run, due to more banks not agreeing to work with BTC companies, more regulation straggling Bitcoin businesses, panic from main stream and more. Therefore it is an incentive for big players to intervene. 6. On the document where a rescue plan is discussed and structured, the date for the shut-down of MTGox's website/trade is Japan morning time of the 25th February 25th. The document was released BEFORE the shut down happend, and indeed it was at the time specified. 7. The next step, according to the document is to restructure and Mark to step down. In my view, the chances of that rescue plan to be happening just got a lot bigger. Obviously, I might be wrong, and obviously even if a plan IS happening it doesn't guarantee it will succeed. Anyway, I think you should know and realize that this is (in my opinion) probably what is going on. We should get a statement on MTGox.com website within a week in my opinion. Nice post and I am inclined to agree. Disclaimer: I am one of the Goxxed and may not be in full possession of all my marbles while still firmly in the denial stages of grief. if that plan works - what does it mean for all of us who hang in with our money? appreciate any support to understand it Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: IIpeBeD_MeDBeD on February 28, 2014, 04:31:31 PM "Bankruptcy protection" allow Mtgoxs management a rewrite all their belongings and money to distant relatives, and as a result of the financial balance sheet of the mtgox and its stuff will be ZERO, and then we do not be refund our money!
Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: xandriel on February 28, 2014, 05:22:42 PM In my view they would have to be insane to bring Gox back in any form. I doubt the community would trust them again even without Mark's involvement....although I am sure he will try to be part of it somehow.
Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: tonyq on February 28, 2014, 05:26:22 PM The British press take on it:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570159/Bitcoin-firm-hacked-virtual-bank-heist-goes-bankrupt-leaving-NO-prospect-investors-getting-hundreds-millions-pounds.html Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: xandriel on February 28, 2014, 05:47:14 PM Quote Karpeles vaguely said of the money: 'Well, technically speaking it’s not lost just yet, just temporarily unavailable' This would suggest to me that he indeed does know the whereabouts of all the BTC. Also he has a personal wealth of $250 million...enough to pay back each investor 60% or so. Quote The fees that Mt Gox charged - up to 10pc on transactions - allowed him to amass a fortune of $8m plus 345,000 Bitcoins (worth around $250m even at current rates) by some estimates. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570159/Bitcoin-firm-hacked-virtual-bank-heist-goes-bankrupt-leaving-NO-prospect-investors-getting-hundreds-millions-pounds.html#ixzz2udjpOszv Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: dmeter on February 28, 2014, 06:53:58 PM thru danger is
FED The Fed doesn't have authority with respect to Bitcoin," she said. "But certainly it would be appropriate for Congress to ask questions about what the right legal structure would be for digital currencies.and since we know that the U.S. Congress is an honest and honorable institution that cares about the betterment of the little guy and peace in the world as what they misled the peace in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya second it is imposibile tu treft 800000 btc from hot and cold walett.This is story for baby. all double acounting have BTC In out BTC hot walett in out BTC cold walett in out Client in out Profit in Total 0 Imposibile is closing acounting software situation if number is not right. Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: tonyq on February 28, 2014, 08:23:09 PM Quote Karpeles vaguely said of the money: 'Well, technically speaking it’s not lost just yet, just temporarily unavailable' This would suggest to me that he indeed does know the whereabouts of all the BTC. Also he has a personal wealth of $250 million...enough to pay back each investor 60% or so. Quote The fees that Mt Gox charged - up to 10pc on transactions - allowed him to amass a fortune of $8m plus 345,000 Bitcoins (worth around $250m even at current rates) by some estimates. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570159/Bitcoin-firm-hacked-virtual-bank-heist-goes-bankrupt-leaving-NO-prospect-investors-getting-hundreds-millions-pounds.html#ixzz2udjpOszv Try to keep up. Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: xandriel on February 28, 2014, 09:51:21 PM Quote Karpeles vaguely said of the money: 'Well, technically speaking it’s not lost just yet, just temporarily unavailable' This would suggest to me that he indeed does know the whereabouts of all the BTC. Also he has a personal wealth of $250 million...enough to pay back each investor 60% or so. Quote The fees that Mt Gox charged - up to 10pc on transactions - allowed him to amass a fortune of $8m plus 345,000 Bitcoins (worth around $250m even at current rates) by some estimates. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570159/Bitcoin-firm-hacked-virtual-bank-heist-goes-bankrupt-leaving-NO-prospect-investors-getting-hundreds-millions-pounds.html#ixzz2udjpOszv Try to keep up. You did indeed, but as I was quoting directly from it I thought it best to also include a link to the original. Do try to keep up ;) Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: tonyq on February 28, 2014, 09:56:44 PM Quote Karpeles vaguely said of the money: 'Well, technically speaking it’s not lost just yet, just temporarily unavailable' This would suggest to me that he indeed does know the whereabouts of all the BTC. Also he has a personal wealth of $250 million...enough to pay back each investor 60% or so. Quote The fees that Mt Gox charged - up to 10pc on transactions - allowed him to amass a fortune of $8m plus 345,000 Bitcoins (worth around $250m even at current rates) by some estimates. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570159/Bitcoin-firm-hacked-virtual-bank-heist-goes-bankrupt-leaving-NO-prospect-investors-getting-hundreds-millions-pounds.html#ixzz2udjpOszv Try to keep up. You did indeed, but as I was quoting directly from it I thought it best to also include a link to the original. Do try to keep up ;) http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/suspect.gif Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: xandriel on February 28, 2014, 10:26:31 PM One of the main reasons I quoted from the article was the claim that Mark Karpeles has a personal wealth of some 345,000 bitcoins.
That is rather a lot of coins to be holding, when your company has lost a load more. The company appears to have losses of $64 million, despite recently finding $27.3 million in a bank account. However they also appear to have lost 100,000 btc. Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: Definit on February 28, 2014, 10:40:52 PM http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-victim-files-class-action-lawsuit-lawyers/
Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: grifferz on March 01, 2014, 12:28:45 AM In my view they would have to be insane to bring Gox back in any form. I doubt the community would trust them again even without Mark's involvement....although I am sure he will try to be part of it somehow. If I was an existing and fairly well-regarded exchange like bitstamp.net, bitcoin.de or bitcoin-central.net then I might consider making an offer to buy them out, but it would be based solely on the worth of MtGox's customer database.I started writing up how I thought that might work, but then I realised that I don't know the previous profit/loss statements for MtGox so it would be hard to judge what the company would actually worth as a going concern in ideal circumstances. Does anyone have a source for these? Of course, Karpeles's record keeping is patently so awful that these may be works of pure fiction anyway. Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: sh484 on March 01, 2014, 03:24:28 AM Hi guys,
This 1 article that got the wording rite, so its worth a read. almost all the rest have been shouting bankruptcy.... bankruptcy as loud as they can. ''Mt Gox is aiming at a rebirth under a procedure known as minji saisei, or civil rehabilitation. This relatively new law, passed in 2000, was designed to ensure that businesses enjoy protection from creditors while the court seeks a buyer.'' but what a new buyer is willing to pay for it is another story altogether. how might that affect price action? http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6636e0e8-a06e-11e3-a72c-00144feab7de.html#axzz2ug319wWE Please do let me know what you think of the article people that have had coins stuck and people that dont. Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: MrPiggles on March 01, 2014, 03:26:43 AM You'd think he'd at least have done his collar up
What a fucking slob Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: sh484 on March 01, 2014, 03:50:59 AM im wondering why MTgox files for bankruptcy protection and not just bankruptcy??
Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: DeathAndTaxes on March 01, 2014, 04:03:00 AM I wouldn't read too much into it. Most companies seek reorganization instead of liquidation (that would be Ch 11 vs Ch 7 in the US). However the overwhelming majority of companies that enter bankruptcy protection never leave it. MtGox has a massive hole in its finances, its CEO hasn't been forthcoming with information. Any company buying MtGox out would become liable for MtGox's liabilities even those not fully disclosed by the CEO.
No infusion of capital = failed reorganization = company liquidated. Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: grifferz on March 01, 2014, 04:36:45 AM im wondering why MTgox files for bankruptcy protection and not just bankruptcy?? Have you considered reading the post two above yours for a possible motivation?Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: darkmule on March 01, 2014, 04:43:43 AM One of the main reasons I quoted from the article was the claim that Mark Karpeles has a personal wealth of some 345,000 bitcoins. That is rather a lot of coins to be holding, when your company has lost a load more. Generally, the whole point of establishing a corporation is to shield your own personal wealth from actions against the corporation if it fails. However, considering what a good jerb Gox did keeping its "cold wallet" and "hot wallet" separate, how good a jerb do you think they did keeping Magikarpeles assets separate from Gox assets? My guess is they did a really shitty job, just like they did a really shitty job at everything else. Good jerb! Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: repentance on March 01, 2014, 09:37:15 AM One of the main reasons I quoted from the article was the claim that Mark Karpeles has a personal wealth of some 345,000 bitcoins. That is rather a lot of coins to be holding, when your company has lost a load more. It's the DailyMail, not known for verifying anything. They've based that on estimates made by un-named people - estimates which seem to presume that all fees go to Mark personally (revenue is NOT profit). To date, few reports even mention Jed's MtGox holdings or speculate on the portion of fees he's collected - that fact alone means that many of these reports, and the speculation within them are based on surface, information and no real investigation. Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: tonyq on March 01, 2014, 10:48:25 AM Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: xandriel on March 01, 2014, 11:56:35 AM It's the DailyMail, not known for verifying anything. They've based that on estimates made by un-named people - estimates which seem to presume that all fees go to Mark personally (revenue is NOT profit). To date, few reports even mention Jed's MtGox holdings or speculate on the portion of fees he's collected - that fact alone means that many of these reports, and the speculation within them are based on surface, information and no real investigation. You are correct about the Daily Mail. However in my opinion Mark does not seem to bothered that his multimillion dollar company has just collapsed, and if he were found to have make 345,000 BTC profit from his company then I would wonder how he ended up holding an amount equal to 50% of the missing coins. Only time and real investigation will reveal the true details of the transactions, and from what I hear about Gox bookkeeping, this could take some time. Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: thelema93 on March 01, 2014, 12:10:32 PM They are NOT bankrupt.
They have NOT made a statement saying that coins got stolen This is so f**ing hyped-up it's unbelievable. TO SUMMARISE: 1) Malleability Bug 2) Attempt to Fix Bug 3) Possible Hacking Attempt - no-one really knows 4) Crisis Document that Mark says is 'more or less legit' i.e. NOT 100% TRUE 5) Gox files for protection so they can attempt to get company back on track 6) Mark says in regard to the crisis - "we have identified the problem and we are working on it" THESE ARE ALL FACTS - everything else IS SPECULATION Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: btcinsight on March 01, 2014, 12:56:06 PM MtGox lawyers said the 850k bitcoins were stolen yesterday, I think.
Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: xandriel on March 01, 2014, 12:56:35 PM They are NOT bankrupt. They have NOT made a statement saying that coins got stolen This is so f**ing hyped-up it's unbelievable. TO SUMMARISE: 1) Malleability Bug 2) Attempt to Fix Bug 3) Possible Hacking Attempt - no-one really knows 4) Crisis Document that Mark says is 'more or less legit' i.e. NOT 100% TRUE 5) Gox files for protection so they can attempt to get company back on track 6) Mark says in regard to the crisis - "we have identified the problem and we are working on it" THESE ARE ALL FACTS - everything else IS SPECULATION Read this: http://www.extremetech.com/internet/177283-bitcoin-value-plummets-as-mt-gox-disappears-with-375-million-in-coins Quote Mt. Gox’s CEO Mark Karpeles said at a press conference in Tokyo this morning. “Mt. Gox went bankrupt but I hope the Bitcoin industry will last.” Quote Mt. Gox’s wallet software issues may have been so severe that transaction malleability allowed 744,408 BTC to be stolen over the course of several years Seems to me like: 1) Gox is now bankrupt. 2) Coins are gone 3) Malleability bug was known for years, most other exchanges coded around it. Gox did not, so probably gross negligence. 4) Would anybody trust a restructured Gox?? I would not for sure. The problems customers have had over the past few years seem to be the cause of it all. All those 'stuck' transactions....but where did they go??? Only time will tell Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: btc237ftw on March 01, 2014, 04:46:40 PM Quote Quote from: V4Vendettas on February 28, 2014, 02:49:15 PM Quote from: btc237ftw on February 28, 2014, 02:26:43 PM Guys, This looks more like a restructure and rebrand now than before... "Bankruptcy Protection" has some similarities to "Bankruptcy" but there is a huge difference... http://www.ehow.com/info_8053559_bankruptcy-vs-bankruptcy-protection.html http://www.differencebetween.net/business/difference-between-bankruptcy-and-bankruptcy-protection/ It is basically a protection from the court to give them time to restructure and remodel and rebrand and re-everything (recode, relocate etc) while investors cannot sue them during that time: http://www.zalkinrevell.com/bankruptcyprotection.html So.. think about it, if they are going to rebrand and start new, what is the next step they need to make? this one. Some evidence: 1. There was a HUGE btc debt erasing for a low $ value in the last weeks of trade on MTGox. (about 350k-400k coins have been erased as debt for a sum of around $63,000,000 - $72,000,000 ($180 per coin). 2. Gox.com redirects to MTGox.com. 3. Gox.com registry shows it was recently changed to the name of Mark Carpeles. 4. Mark said other parties are involved in trying to find a solution to this current problem, its live on mtgox.com 5. It's obvious that not taking a step to save and rescue almost a million MTGox customers can damage Bitcoin severely in the long run, due to more banks not agreeing to work with BTC companies, more regulation straggling Bitcoin businesses, panic from main stream and more. Therefore it is an incentive for big players to intervene. 6. On the document where a rescue plan is discussed and structured, the date for the shut-down of MTGox's website/trade is Japan morning time of the 25th February 25th. The document was released BEFORE the shut down happend, and indeed it was at the time specified. 7. The next step, according to the document is to restructure and Mark to step down. In my view, the chances of that rescue plan to be happening just got a lot bigger. Obviously, I might be wrong, and obviously even if a plan IS happening it doesn't guarantee it will succeed. Anyway, I think you should know and realize that this is (in my opinion) probably what is going on. We should get a statement on MTGox.com website within a week in my opinion. Nice post and I am inclined to agree. Disclaimer: I am one of the Goxxed and may not be in full possession of all my marbles while still firmly in the denial stages of grief. if that plan works - what does it mean for all of us who hang in with our money? appreciate any support to understand it It means that who ever hang in there will have access to his/her accoung and he/she will be able to see the DEBT that he/she holds. I.E amount of BTC balance and amount of Fiat balance. At that point, according to the withdrawal limitations (probably verified accounts only) of say 10BTC/Day and 50-100/monthly, he/she can withdraw the BTCs as real BTCs outside that account. The problem will remain with those who hold a lot of debt, say 1,000 BTC - as it will take 10 months to withdraw with such a limitation. But those holding such amounts will still be able to trade and gain/lose more of their debt, and also sell it to ouside users for a bit less of it's then-current value, which should be around 10-25% lower than the other exchanges. With time, as trade will continue, commissions will be made by the exchange and withdrawals do work, people will want to send fiat money to that exchange again. The reason is simple, low amounts of cash allows them to withdraw instantly BTCs that can be artibrated and/or just bought cheaply for the long run. Once that happens the snowball will be rolling full power and the limiation of BTC withdrawals will be raised slowly. Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: rikkejohn on March 01, 2014, 04:52:56 PM They are NOT bankrupt. They have NOT made a statement saying that coins got stolen This is so f**ing hyped-up it's unbelievable. TO SUMMARISE: 1) Malleability Bug 2) Attempt to Fix Bug 3) Possible Hacking Attempt - no-one really knows 4) Crisis Document that Mark says is 'more or less legit' i.e. NOT 100% TRUE 5) Gox files for protection so they can attempt to get company back on track 6) Mark says in regard to the crisis - "we have identified the problem and we are working on it" THESE ARE ALL FACTS - everything else IS SPECULATION The last 2 are facts but prove nothing factual other than what Gox said. Using them is if they are facts is speculation on your part. Title: Re: Important. Gox, have not filed for bankruptcy Post by: Luno on March 01, 2014, 05:05:17 PM They are NOT bankrupt. They have NOT made a statement saying that coins got stolen This is so f**ing hyped-up it's unbelievable. TO SUMMARISE: 1) Malleability Bug 2) Attempt to Fix Bug 3) Possible Hacking Attempt - no-one really knows 4) Crisis Document that Mark says is 'more or less legit' i.e. NOT 100% TRUE 5) Gox files for protection so they can attempt to get company back on track 6) Mark says in regard to the crisis - "we have identified the problem and we are working on it" THESE ARE ALL FACTS - everything else IS SPECULATION The last 2 are facts but prove nothing factual other than what Gox said. Using them is if they are facts is speculation on your part. There isn't much factual still relevant on it's own after the press conference with lawyers. This kind of sets the frame of reality for customers right now. Is it possible that they officially are forced to declare bankruptcy, when in fact the real reason is seized bank deposit boxes with their paper wallets, which they can't talk about for "---" reasons? Things that can move this on: Criminal charges by some state, (Japanese, US,---), An official statement from the current administrators of the company right now. I'm dying to know more as everybody are too. |
