Bitcoin Forum

SEC Rejects 9 Bitcoin ETF Applications from ProShares, Direxion and GraniteShares
Sec rejects has rejected a total of nine applications from various btc exchanges

For all three disapprovals, the SEC has stated that:

"[T]he Commission is disapproving this proposed rule change because, as discussed below, the Exchange has not met its burden under the Exchange Act and the Commission's Rules of Practice to demonstrate that its proposal is consistent with the requirements of the Exchange Act Section 6(b)(5), in particular the requirement that a national securities exchange's rules be designed to prevent fraudulent and manipulative acts and practices."


many people Predict if SEC approves price jump . Now sec disapproved now price again down to earth ?
Whats prediction now within year end ?
Market is already red - https://coinmarketcap.com/


Read Full store here more at
Source - https://cointelegraph.com/news/japans-financial-regulator-wants-crypto-industry-to-grow-under-appropriate-regulation

"market" is read again because altcoins are still on a dumping spree that has not yet come close to an end. they continue losing value as their bubbles run out of air. talking about it here however is very irrelevant.

as for SEC and ETF, i am wondering how many more times they have to reject ETFs before we stop even caring about them or talk about them. so far i think they have rejected ETFs at least 20 to 30 times starting from last year.

this sounds really bad, the price of bitcoin has fallen like a rock. it looks like bitcoin prices will drop far enough this time. I hope the price of bitcoin will not go below 6k anymore.

Don't think about it too much because I think in the next coming ETF which is CBOE's ETF (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-14/cboe-faces-moving-finish-line-in-race-for-first-bitcoin-etf), things might change(I hope).
It didn't since the fall it has shown for now is not that much since it only had a 3.83% decrease according to coinmarketcap. At least, I'd say the price of bitcoin has just corrected a little after being overbought because of the upcoming ETF that was rejected now.

Based on how a lot of people have hugely attached ETF proposal to the movement of the market, even with the quick drop in price, it is still trying to hold up.

This market is very unpredictable and for me, I feel the market just moves in the direction it pleases at its own time or will I say the direction the whales are pleased with. The market could go down but the general sentiment in the market has been very bearish for a while now, and I do not see that changing anytime soon, irrespective of the ETF proposal news.

Hopefully CBOE will meet its burden under the exchange act, right? We all hope so too and that is all we can do now until then.

I wish the altcoins continue to be in a dumping spiral untill they "die" and nobody wants to buy them.
They are slowing down the mass adoption of bitcoin and they are pushing the bitcoin price down,because lots of crypto investors think that they will make big profits with altcoin day trading.
There won't be an apocalypse,if the SEC disapproves the ETF proposal.Bitcoin will go to the moon next year,without any major institutional ivestors.

it was expected that these ETFs would be disapproved and we still have the most important that will be decided until September 30, if by case on September 30 the SEC disapprove the VanEck ETF I hope that people don't enter in panic because we still have good news for the end of the year, I speak of:

NYSE Operator Announces New Global Digital Assets Platform, Plans Bitcoin Futures Launch (https://cointelegraph.com/news/nyse-operator-announces-new-global-digital-assets-platform-plans-bitcoin-futures-launch)



In fact the market reacted very well, the biggest problem will be if the SEC rejects the VanEck ETF


It will be very difficult for this price to be maintained if we do not have good news, but I believe that in the coming months we will have good news

What I find funny is this.

When the CBOE ETF was delayed, we had a huge dump. Makes no sense since it wasn't rejected and a delay was expected.

When the Bakkt was announced, nothing pretty much happened around that time.

When all these ETFs were REJECTED not just delayed, there was a little pump.

Basically its impossible to trade the bitcoin news and you might as well flip a coin.

Makes perfect sense. Delay with the SEC means rejection by default. The only reason they don't outright reject ETF's is because it's the easiest way out for them.

Why should something happen? The only one hyping up BAKKT was the mainstream media, and when that happens, you know it won't impact the market. The price went even down afterwards, which once again proves that you should short mainstream media excitement. They're a great counter indicator of what you should be doing.

It's not impossible, just not suited for everyone. I opened a short just under $6700 yesterday in anticipation of another delay or rejection (which was pretty much guaranteed to happen), and it worked out pretty well for me. I liquidated my position at $6300 with a 5x leverage. I'll do it again next month with the VanEck ETF.

this is bad news, it looks like bitcoin prices will soon drop below 6k again. Looks like the bear market will last longer, I start losing bull run. I'm getting frustrated.

"down to  earth"?!!!
if SEC approves ETF there will be a price jump because that would come as a huge shock to the whole market since we don't expect it to be approved!
but if it is rejected, people are prepared for it and all the dozens of rejections so far has prepared them for the worst. additionally most of the investors are waiting for the ETF decision so that they can invest with no risks ahead so after its approval/rejection it would only be a matter of time before the big rise.

When I saw the prices drop about 5% instantly last night just before heading off to bed, I knew the decision had come. The market's idiocy is still there for all to see, though. I mean, what else were we expecting? If ETFs backed by physical Bitcoin can't be approved, what more leveraged and futures contract tracking? And if the SEC already says it needs a regulated market before it can ever move to a more positive mindset, what makes people think they've changed their mind in a matter of a few weeks?

ETFs aren't happening for a long time. And Bitcoin doesn't need them.

When the market is bearish, good news hardly matters for price, and bad news can catalyze selloffs. Bad news doesn't cause downtrends (it's strong supply that does that), but it can help trigger them.


Right when the news dropped yesterday, there was a 2-3 hour dump from the $6,400s to the $6,200s but it was bought up pretty quickly. If you shorted at that time, you definitely would have sold into a bottom. The reaction to the CBOE ETF delay was much stronger.

I approach news in two ways. I either ignore it and focus on price action, or I buy the rumor and sell into (or before) the news. Both methods work much better than trying to "trade the news" itself.

I believe the important part is that the bitcoin ETF's got attention, not just around here but on economy channels like bloomberg and cnbc really gave bitcoin ETF some attention and air time because they know that when something gets as big as this there is no stopping it. Now the important next target for bitcoin to become some sort of common investment option for people who do not want to buy bitcoin.

Buying bitcoin has a lot of hassle like selecting a proper exchange, sending your info for KYC and sending your money and getting btc and hoping your funds won't be frozen by coinbase or wherever you buy (keeps happening to many people). However with ETF, you just tell your bank to have some bitcoin etf on your investment portfolio and you are done.

I hope that, after these rejections, users stop waiting for a "legitimation" of bitcoin. See where that "legitimation" brought us, after futures markets where announced and investors got burned by Wall Street.

The masses see capitalism as a evil concept, because of these speculators. They gave it a bad name. To "legitimize" bitcoin, I think it will bring us more disgrace than good.

As for the price, I think we will drop to 4000s in September, but it might recover before December. There will be no ATH this year, we might reach 12k in November or December and thats it.

People brought bitcoin for the wrong reasons, waiting for "legitimation", instead of looking for a safe haven against the nation-state. They will sell in the same way.

This is actually bullish as we move into 2019 because the SEC has specifically stated what is necessary to get approval:


And hinted they want to approve an ETF:


Note the NYSE is planning to offer futures which may settle physically which thus ostensibly would address some of the SEC’s concerns:


But it's coming…


It's likely the VanEck Bitcoin ETF will also be disapproved in Sept:

https://www.coindesk.com/sec-delays-vaneck-solidx-bitcoin-etf-decision-to-september/

But what could possibly come out of that disapproval is wording from the SEC that is very bullish. Remember there is strong possibility of a new ATH in 2019:

https://steemit.com/trading/@anonymint/most-important-bitcoin-chart-ever
https://steemit.com/trading/@anonymint/re-heavyd-re-anonymint-re-anonymint-bitcoin-to-usd15k-in-march-usd8-5k-by-june-then-usd30-k-by-q1-2019-20180819t141422240z

What should be worried is the Van Eyck Solid X proposal because its what people are really hoping to get approved, however we have to tell people not to get excited because we will have the same results as others Bitcoin ETF in the past, a rejection.

That's why I'm not getting myself carried away with this ETF's going on. And we should not think of it getting approved because we are still in the stage wherein all sorts of magic trick can be done in this market by manipulators. And I'm sure as the investors getting smarter nowadays, they won't even bother by another ETF rejection.

https://twitter.com/jchervinsky/status/1032431885413228545

This guy is lawyer who has opined on ETFs for a bit. He's not optimistic about any application after the reasons they gave for this latest crop of rejections.

I certainly hope so, but I'm afraid that common sense doesn't really apply to most of the traders here. It was clear a long time already that ETFs wouldn't be accepted by the SEC, but the market still reacts to it.

Bitcoin's speculative nature fuels these events to continue to happen because that's what traders can use to either move the market up or down. Just look at how much hype there is around these ETFs, it's ridiculous.

Just before the SEC postponed its Vaneck ETF decision people were talking about how the first gold backed ETF pumped its price significantly, and they blatantly assume that the exact same thing will happen to Bitcoin, which is crazy.

Even with an approval you don't know whether or not there is any significant demand for it.

Don't you know? Bitcoin is dying.  ::) If these ETFs ever get approved, then it actually just might die, for good.

What world do you live in,brother? Do tell, we would also move there, for people are "smart" and are in no way, like the dumbfucks on Earth.

How many more are there? Burn them all.

https://i.imgur.com/YWLdpRS.gif

i thought we'd be inundated by delays and denials for months to come, so i'm glad the SEC went ahead and rejected 9 ETF applications in one fell swoop. like a bandaid---right off (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ubesivs4aQ)!

seems like we still have one more deadline looming though, and it's the one most people have a hard-on for: the vaneck/solidX decision on september 30th.... get ready for disappointment one more time! :D


that's because they don't look at the context. gold had already formed a multi-year base and broken out into a bull market when the ETF was approved. it was bound to explode anyway.


bingo---been saying that for a while. the existence of an ETF doesn't create demand for BTC.

Yeah me too. Everyone saw the Bioshares decision but to have all those others thumped down was good (although now they've stayed the decision on 5 boo!). I'd really prefer all these ETFs just get knocked down now, have Bitcoin take all that selling pressure now and get all the pointless Wall Strret hopes and dreams priced out before end of the year.

And yes. I hope the September disappointment for VanEck is a decision as well. If any of the reasons given were legitimate, then there's no way the Bitcoin market can change in time for SEC to change its mind. Seriously, don't want the news of delays to take up any more feed space till 2019.

As far as price targets go, I know old DanV was looking for a flat correction back to the July highs in the $8,000s (https://whaleclub.co/i/6jtlRR). He's been right so far this time.

That would be the ultimate troll: to double-top at $8,500 and then fall back into a bear market. That's basically what happened in the $11,000s earlier in the year, too.

Shorter term, Peter Brandt was looking for $7,270 (https://twitter.com/PeterLBrandt/status/1032083378160447489) but I'm not sure if that's changed after that little selloff a couple days ago.

Just a stupid question : why bitcoin-etf should be USA based and why not it could be issued from some other country ?

I just wonder why all people are trying to get approval only from USA and why not try in Japan kind of bitcoin legalized countries ? If Winklevoss brothers try to trade bitcoin-ETF in Japan, it will not get enough volume ? ETF thing is only country based ? It cannot be traded online to have more traders world wide ?

When bitcoin ETF in some small country like Latvia or Hong Kong where it will be easier to convince the government to get approval even the expected volume will be lesser, it could set example for USA to approve the future ETF application as bitcoin-ETF thing will experience the real life scenario which is still lagging and SEC is still taking its decision on imaginary future problems.

Not really a stupid question, but I think the simple answer is directness. You've got these players who want access to an existing market, a big market, and a mature market. So the US fits all these criteria

ETFs by definition means they're based on stock exchanges. They work like stocks, so in terms of tax, they're much "cheaper" than possibly buying Bitcoin itself (and due to liquidity, easily bought and sold in massive amounts, compared to buying actual Bitcoin in the US which is tricky for a lot of big money people). So these Bitcoin ETF guys probably know there's a lot of eager accredited investors who don't yet have a way (in their mind anyway) to get into speculating on Bitcoin, so ETFs are the perfect entry point for them. Big money!

The US was the first to introduce it, Europe later into the game and the rest of the world only after the turn of the century. Essentially it's the most mature, the only country to have it in place for more than 20 years. So they have the most money waiting to enter. I think that's all it is.

And yeah ETFs only available in the country of origin, where the stock market is. These ETFs, I think, will track the index in the Chicago markets (doesn't get any bigger than that).

how can ETF be more liquid than the actual bitcoin market?
i don't quite understand how ETF works but reading the resources they say there is only 5 shares in an ETF and each share will represent 25BTC. so the total amount of it is 125BTC only!
125BTC is the volume of 1 hour on bitstamp and during wilder moves it is the volume of 5 minutes! for example today total volume  was 1400BTC so far.

even if i am misunderstanding the limit (25BTC) and if it is higher, it doesn't make much of a difference. ETF is still limited to a fixed cap while the real market is only limited by the number of people trading there which can be a lot bigger.

Nowadays with how the market is saturated with third party broker firms, even investors from Japan and China could buy into these ETF's without any problems.

On another note, which seems to be something that people completely ignore, is the fact that institutions can already buy into a coin backed fund through Coinbase's index fund.

Current fund composition;

Bitcoin 73.07%
Ethereum 18.11%
BCash 5.86%
Litecoin 2.13%
Ethereum Classic 0.83%

Minimum investment amount is $250,000 which is steep but probably set as a regulative main rule. Custody is taken care of, so nothing prevents large investors from the US to flow in.

In theory, a commodity-backed ETF could have a supply larger than the combined liquidity of the spot market. But we all know that's not going to happen. :D

I think you're right. A Bitcoin ETF can only have limited liquidity due to the low and fixed supply. Futures markets can have significantly more liquidity than ETFs for that reason. They are either cash-settled, or there is delivery on the net difference in contracts. So there is never delivery on the entire depth of the market (or anything close to it). Take the gold futures market, for instance.