Bitcoin Forum

People are starting to use that area to post scams, since you cannot see their trust ratings.

"Project Development" often involves coin changing hands, so people should be able to see who is not trustworthy.

Theymos hear my prayer...

I'm guessing this is in response to the guy hoping to run a bitcoin mixer from his email account and a bitcoin address (as if that doesn't look suspicious).

Although, more generally, it would probably be helpful as there is an exchange of something if not money (sometimes code or other stuff get exchanged at the same time between people) and if that code is designed to fool someone into thinking it does something it actually doesn't then it is helpful to know their trust rating.

If this does happen, project development should also be moved to economy/market place...

and enable viewing trust everywhere including default trust for visitors in some sections...

Agree, I don't know exactly why it is necessary to hide trust rating few specific board. Although everyone can see trust rating if click in profile but its better to show all board. If some click on my profile they able to see my trust rating that means its publicly visible. I would like to suggest enable trust rating for all boards. Perhaps it will help people to know the poster is how worthy.    

Enlightened, even a Vod prays to a higher power.

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Agreed anywhere that deals, partnerships or a currency can change hands should reap the benefit of the trust system


This has come up before and I liked the reasoning why it isnt everywhere.

Most boards are conversational or serve as an area for troubleshooting/advice. Untrustworthy people can still be intelligent and contribute in those areas. You yourself are posting a fallacy that an untrustworthy member is not a worthy poster.

With trust being as subjective as it is it's best left to it's true purpose; representing past trade or practices of a member.

If I understand the purpose of that section correctly, it is to develop the projects and not to invest in it.

If you want to hire someone or are interested in working with him, you must do a broad search. "Showing trust will not represent anything."
Also, people are scammed even with trust system, "especially guests."

The trust score should be visible in all sections of the forum. It can be useful in sections others than the ones currently displaying it.
You can easily guess who you're talking to.

Why people need to click profile to look their trust rating? How about implement a system that showing trust score when mouse hover over the user name, instead of clicking it. I want to know can we implement this feature in new forum software.

While I'm agreeing with your statement, I am seeing  another view regarding that issue. Because I'm not taking any consideration of the trust score when I reading posts, member suggestions, answers for questions(but not in trading discussions). So isn't that mean we are pre assuming, if we allowed to show trust rating in every boards people will judge their decisions by blindly looking only at the trust rating? No I'm not that catagory and I don't care that members trust rating when I'm reading, if he/she adding value to the ongoing discussion.

Yes, but what about ranking? For instance, try to imagine that someone got's an underserved redtrust as a payback from a personal issue with someone, for instance. If the trust is showed by default, probably this person will be unable to rank-up, or it can be more difficult for the hypothetic liable. Hey, you said that this wouldn't influence you, and that's awesome, but, being honest, I would think twice before meriting someone with red trust. I guess that is why this isn't shown in all boards because it can subconsciously influence the people about the one writing.
Of course, I do think that the trust system may be shown in all the boards in which transactions are having a place like the very one pointed up by the OP, or any other with money or work or any kind of transaction implicit. Yet, in those ones dedicated to the public opinion, I just don' t see that the trust system have anything to do with that. Please, correct me if I'm wrong, for I'm just a newbie, but, as far as I have been able to understand, the Trust System is a decentralized tool designed as a way of advice others regarding any kind of transaction, so this is a dedicated tool and not one meant for general purposes.

Don't you worry, the trust system works like a "voting" system on who to trust, aka Default Trust (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust)
Depth 2 is the default for registered accounts (unless you tweaked it).
Users in the Default Trust 2 are responsible enough to be trusted.

If the user who gave a negative trust wasn't included in the DT2 trust list, it wont be displayed, most users will just ignore the ones (hidden) in the profile.
So, you will not get a red-tag or a negative reputation from a retaliative negative trust rating from a regular member.

Thanks for that but now I feel just more confused: I've seen that some of the enlisted names you've provided me are stricken out. That means that they once were trusted but not anymore? And, if so, why?
Aren' t they so trusted them? If they were trusted and they lost their credibility -just if that' s the case- then, what happens with the trust they give to others?? Sorry, my brain is just exploding here.  ??? ???

Maybe it's because I'm so cynical when it comes to the subject of due diligence (and why so many people don't do it anymore!), but I feel like if a dialogue is opened up between a (potentially) shady developer and a project owner, or vice versa, that at least a click-through to the user's profile would be the minimal due diligence someone would research... am I wrong??

However, this is a secondary step (that newbies, especially, may not know to do) that could easily be eliminated with allowing trust ratings to show by default, so it seems like a valid request.

My personal opinion about the Project Development board is that it's no longer the same thing as it was when Bitcoin wasn't so widely adopted, so I'm down with supporting a move of the board to be a sub of the Marketplace, especially given that fees will undoubtedly be changing hands with most new projects.

That's not the way trust system works here and I am hoping that "nc50lc" would clear your doubts. Now you can ask me "DT members are also humans and cant they emotionally biased when giving away red trust for a member?" The answer is, it can happen sometimes and we can be giving away evidences for other DT members by explaining that DT member put me red trust without any solid proof or valid reason. If those reasons are valid and if that DT member found guilty about putting red trust on a member, I think that DT member will be removed from that network.
  
Actually, you're making a good point here and I'm thinking red trust given by particular DT member, should be removed (Not other members given) if that DT member lost their credibility.

I only give you an example user (mdayonliner (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1432468) is an exceptional user for this forum) for that matter and the decision is yours.

This is what theymos said about giving away your Merits (theymos didn't say anything about trust :P)

Most likely, yes.
Based on this old post: Re: How to get into the Default Trust list? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=884881.msg9759421#msg9759421), those with strikethrough are the users who've lost their Green Trust Rating and/or their reputation, and...
The official announcement from theymos includes:He personally picked them, unless there was a change in the system that I missed.

It will stay on the user's profile but it will not be displayed (in the profile or forum) by default, anyone can see the "Untrusted feedback" by clicking "show ratings" button if they want though.

For example, user: Patriciaparakeet (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=896883) has [Trust: 0: -0 / +0]
But when you look at his trust page (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=896883) and clicked the "show ratings" button below "Untrusted feedback", there were two negative feebacks that was written by untrusted users which doesn't have much weight on the user's reputation. (now, read my first reply again)

-edit and response to the next post-
After a user was removed from DT list, his previous trust rating will be counted the same as other "untrusted" users. Unless you've included his name on your trusted users list.

I think that's not what Helena asked. She asked about what would be happened for a member previously red tagged by a DT member(Members who handpicked by theymos) who lost their credibility even after that member red tagged. Not about the trust rating put by untrusted users which we don't consider normally.

Actually here, people judge by the trust rating only.But negative user also can contribute in the community.So, we should not judge people by only trust system.I think that's why thymos hide the trust rating in some section.              

- Trust should be shown everywhere
- Sig Campaigns need to die

This would be a huge advantage for all of us.

If a current DT Member lost  credibility then it will become an untrusted feedback to scammer and the red tag will get erased from that scammer profile.(If scammer is tagged by that single DT member only.)

I am not 100% sure, but I think Pharmacist lost the DT status for few days.



a) Why it should be removed? Might be due to scam accusation DT member lost its position and afterward it find out everything was fine and user regain its DT status.

b) Even DT member lost it credibility and accusation is proved but it does not mean that user lied earlier in every occasion. User feedback should remain there.

Untrusted -ve feedback are also important while making a deal. Might be DT did not find enough evidence to tag or the scam accusation did not get attention of DT.



Read the whole post "https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=211858.msg2221664#msg2221664" here.

Not really. It would have a negative influence on how users perceive others. In a perfect world users would judge a user on what they have written, but that really isn't the case. We aren't all rational, and users jump to conclusions, and immediately discredit anyone with negative trust. Regarding the signature campaigns, then maybe. Maybe it would be best if we just disallowed them. It would be a pity though.

I think you misunderstood what I'm explaining and I missed a comma when separating a long sentence. Now it is corrected and I'm not talking about the removal of DT member, but the red trust gave by that DT member for the particular user who not found guilty after an investigation.

I think you didn't read my first post and read the bolded part :P


I think you choose the decontextualized way of debating. We all know what "theymos" said about the trust system. I am talking about when giving away your merits, we don't need to consider the red trust of that user.

Why instead of showing the trust score only on that section you do not show it on the whole forum?
Even if Theymos activates the visualization in this section, scammers will change section to avoid it. Prevention is better than cure so maybe it's better to enable it on the whole forum.

Agree with this suggestion as well.  We've seen people find "deals" on bitcointalk without even registering, and they can't see any trust as a guest.  It doesn't seem to happen a whole lot but there's no reason I can think of why trust shouldn't be shown.  I think it ought to be displayed in all sections and without having to be logged in.

I think it should be.  As I said, there's really no reason not to show it everywhere.  At least I've never heard a good argument.

You are doing it wrong, to hear your prayer you have to add "@theymos" in the subject. Tested twice, both times worked for me ;)

I asked some time ago why the Trust should be hidden at all, it does't matter if you are dealing with money or not.
Like in B&H someone asks for help with recovering bitcoins from a old wallet, a scammer offers help and bang, newbies have no idea what will happen. Sure it's their problem but you have to know who you are dealing with before you accept help.

I know, I know, never share your private keys/passwords with anyone, but have you seen a desperate newbie with a few bitcoins locked.

I was actually thinking the same thing. Why would such trust ratings are hidden in some board. Which is in fact it has always been may basis(or too most of us here) to why we should trust that person. Even if the conversion does not involve money at first but still can be a potential prey for hacking specially for the newbies.

So i suggest to open it up to all boards and not just on the one the vod requested. I will be praying for the additional of vod's request.

@theymos, hear our prayers. (@iasenko, im hoping that this will really work ???)

Let's be honest here for a second: This whole forum has a slightly negative influence. A place to scam, a place to spam, a place for everything that is "grey" or simply overlooked. Yes, there are some spots between all that dirt but they are getting smaller. Being labeled all the time, might force people to think first. I know it's not perfect as with all the ongoing personal bitchfights the view is wrecked unless you customize your trust view.

The forum might not be in a great way currently. There's definitely issues, and everyone knows this. But, honestly I don't see the benefit of introducing something which would affect how users perceive one another in sections which are irrelevant to trust.

I'm not a fan personally. I can see your frustration, but I don't think this is the way to go about it.

No DT member tags someone who isn't a scammer. If there's an accusation going on, the tag stays for a little while, after the accusation is cleared and if the user in question isn't guilty. He won't be getting any negative for that.

Read this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3377342.msg35493406#msg35493406

You can get negative trust for merit abusing, theymos has approved it. IIRC, he told to tag only obvious merit abusers, otherwise, give users the benefit of the doubt.

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Yeah, trust shouldn't be shown in all sections. There are neg. rated members who have good knowledge(I am not talking about you, QS). For example, Last of the V8's (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=479624) has got a lot of merits, and is a meme guy who posts in the Wall Observer thread mainly.  ;D

EDIT: Vod, you can literally ask this guy to pray for you here to get theymos to listen to you: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4632723.0;

s it possible with this type of forum to have popup mouseover? Maybe if you do not want to have the option to see a person's trust on the whole forum (even if I do not understand why) it might be useful to have a mousover window popup appears on a person's nickname. What do you think about it?

The main idea (at least how I see) is that someone's trust score shouldn't matter in a discussion (not related with anything that envolves being trusted or requires any kind of trust).

Yes. It's possible with pure HTML.

You just plagarised my idea( just kidding  :P). However that's what I thought too. It's useless to clicking and going for separate page for just look at the trust score.

Agreed and that's what I also explaining from the beginning of this thread. Why we clouded our judgements(when giving away Merits, when replying a thread) with the trust score of a member. (But not discussions where trust matters)

We need to shedding away our imotional or initial judgements when we see the red trust of a member and be try to appreciate where it should.

you give me red tag https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2128667

why you delete tag him https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1730730.0 ?

how about him https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1730730.0

Considering you didn't seem willing to publicly release the amount you wanted for that account looks immensely shady.
Most of these accounts are probably cracked also so risk being recovered at some point.

@MS69 rather than replying to an old thread with an off topic post, you should open up a thread in Reputation (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=129.0) to discuss this matter there.

Your prayer are on the queue. Estimated waiting time end of the year 2021  ;D

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Anyway, I vouch for the addition too. This will enforce reviewing their trust page (especially someone who has red from DT) before wasting any time to read the actual thread.

I did not see it how the trust system works not until today that I saw this post. Anyway, why it was not being visible in other section? Could there be any reason? Does trust system really on trading purposes only? It will be good if OP prayers will be granted. LoL