Bitcoin Forum

Just in case people are forgetting.

Hashfast is a bunch of thieves. I do not say this lightly: They have literally taken my coin, violated their contract, and provided me with nothing in return. I paid them 98 BTC for hardware "scheduled" to be delivered in October. It's March 2nd now have received _nothing_ and they have not responded to any of my past private efforts to resolve the matter— now spanning months.  (Copies of communications and certified letter tracking numbers available on request).

I am not some competitor or troll: I'm a moderator of this sub-forum and a developer of the Bitcoin reference software.  I have no financial interest or otherwise in any other mining hardware company. I mine personally to support the Bitcoin network.  I've made a genuine effort to resolve this matter from hashfast, but it seems instead that they plan on taking my funds and running.  I sometimes feel bad that I probably do get "more fair" treatment than others with a lower profile in the community, but if they're willing to do this to me then what are they willing to do to you?

Business screwups and delays happen, but in my opinion Hashfast has gone far beyond those boundaries and into the space of outright theft.  Every additional sale hashfast makes while screwing over me and other miners in this manner damages the Bitcoin ecosystem and discourages me— and presumably other small miners— from participating. I've taken what I feel to be a fairly soft hand in this so far, in the hopes that they'd make things right after they cleared up some of their startup hurdles— but with new products being promoted, it seems that isn't their plan.

I urge everyone to provide HashFast with no further business until they make right by their past customers.

If you're looking for hardware and haven't been (rightfully) scared off by the astronomic prices being charged by current hardware vendors— I can personally vouch for Bitmain's Antminer S1s (*), which are delivered promptly, with absolutely no pre-order nonsense, and perform precisely as specified. Cointerra products also appear to be competently handled (though current units only deliver ~1.6TH/s against their original 2TH/s spec, and at least my unit has some hashrate stability problems when run at full speed), and they've treated their customers with reasonable respect (e.g. compensating customers for delays above and beyond the contract).


(*) Disclosure, fwiw: Last year Bitmain sent me a prototype 90GH/s antminer for testing/development prior to their public shipping. I subsequently bought a couple others as a normal customer and have been pretty happy with them as have virtually all of their other customers. Rather than seeing this as a source of potential bias here I'd point out that any well run mining hardware company would get pre-production units out to developers in order to avoid the early product missteps that other companies like HashFast have had.

Sorry to hear more problems and thank you for sharing. I was actually about to order from Hashfast but ordered instead from another company last October, not sure yet if it was any better...

My experiences so far...  Avalon Batch #3...  they delivered finally (only) three months late.
Now waiting for Bitmine delivery which was promised last week of Dec, but nothing yet. Anyway already two months late.
LA3M unit from asiabtc / lightingasic came actually fast a bit over week after payment!

Generally buyingpreordering ASICs seems to be really risky.

I'm also interested in getting in contact with other hashfast customers in the SF bay area.

I'm in the SF Bay Area, feel free to send me a PM. I visited their office in the past (and got lied to in my face as it turned out). I did receive my hardware in late January. It was not very stable but I've been able to iron out the kinks. No MPP of course, and looking at ~90% loss in BTC overall on this investment.

To be honest, I was just hoping HF would ship the damn MPP so I can leave all this drama behind me. I got caught up in too many scammy operations (Bitcoinica, MtGox, BFL, HF) and it is starting to leave a really sour taste in my mouth.

Bitcoin allow you to eliminate trust when it comes to the actual transaction but in the end you still have to trust individuals and companies so the sword cuts both ways. Arguably when it comes to pre-orders it just cuts your way.

Pre-orders and bitcoin don't mix. Off-chain custodial services (wallets, exchanges, ETFs etc) and bitcoin don't mix either. Looks like this is a lesson we all have to learn the hard way.

So I'm just wondering, is gmaxwell going to start calling out all of the overpromising/underdelivering, cough BFL cough, hardware companies or just the one's he has money invested in and ignore the one's who have invested money in advertising here. Because there are/have been a lot of them out there and I haven't seen this kind of response until now.

Regardless, this isn't all that surprising after my initial meetings with their team before they went public. Something was just off and then I found out they claimed that someone who is actually financially backing another company financed their operations. The dog and pony show was awesome, but when it came down to it, Lil Sebastian was/is late to the party still.

I'm speaking from my own experience. Sadly, I can't really afford to buy a couple units from every vendor that comes along.  You'll note that I'm not using any special moderator powers here, e.g. kicking Hashfast's ass for deleting my post in their self moderated thread. I'm here as a (well known) community member.

(Y'all wanna fund me to buy one of every other piece of hardware, I will— and then I'll be glad to blast the everlasting crap out of them when they don't deliver... kinda costly though)

I was in Germany at the time of their announcement and couldn't do my normal due diligence which probably would have saved me— and did from several other vendors before. :(

From now on I wouldn't agree to a preorder without using a multisig escrow or alike just to prevent the current situation.

Thank you for the response. That might have came off a little harsher than I intended it to, but as a Bitcoin consultant I have lost my patience for these snake-oil salesman coming through town. I understand that you can only speak from your own experience and can't buy everything out there, but as you are well-known in the community your voice carries more weight than say, cedividad, (no offense intended cedividad). I respect that you didn't use your moderator powers as you could have and instead started a separate thread, which I think is commendable, but as I said your voice carries weight and it made the rounds of the internet I frequent VERY quickly.

As an aside, maybe we should have a sort of Bitcoin Miner Foundation, or something of the sort in order to give more of a voice and power to miners in some way. They can be funded by miners to buy miners and then do a whole consumer report of the whole situation. This would at least provide more transparency and accountability for our side of things. It might be a dumb idea or brought up before, but it's one I've kicked around for a bit.

Thank you for calling out Hashfast and relaying your personal experience.

Are you saying you want to create a miners union? 

Unfortunately, for some reason Hashfast does not want you to see this vital information about the integrity of their operations and the realities of their product non-delivery— so they deleted my post.  

The chip is running at 750GH/s.  That's a world record!  Having a chip that runs 50% faster than the nearest competitor is a big deal, especially given the rapidly rising rate of mining difficulty.

Lessons to learn:

1. Never pre-order ASIC mining hardware.

2. Never store funds on an exchange unless you are converting immediately and withdrawing.

3. Backup your wallet.dat and encrypt that baby.

Pretty simple. I may have missed one or two fundamental lessons. But these 3 should sum it up for every noob and pioneer.

So I'm just wondering, is gmaxwell going to start calling out all of the overpromising/underdelivering, cough BFL cough, hardware companies or just the one's he has money invested in and ignore the one's who have invested money in advertising here. Because there are/have been a lot of them out there and I haven't seen this kind of response until now.

Regardless, this isn't all that surprising after my initial meetings with their team before they went public. Something was just off and then I found out they claimed that someone who is actually financially backing another company financed their operations. The dog and pony show was awesome, but when it came down to it, Lil Sebastian was/is late to the party still.

I'm currently looking for whomever owns hashfastscam.org (or similar domains) and I'm also interested in getting in contact with other hashfast customers in the SF bay area.

We need association or guild of reputable miner fabricators and developers.

i'd rather solo mine with 1gh/s.
JUST NO.
 :D

I don't think you get the idea of the guild / association. It is a BBB for Miners. Not a mining pool or a place to sell products. Open to all who would rather deal with reputable and honest brokers in the Miner field as opposed to the HF / BFL / Avalon types.

no, i get the idea of a cult/sect/group orgy/foundation/union/guild perfectly well thank you.
if you feel the need to be part of a club, carry on. it's not for me, thanks.

If you want people to keep getting suckered... then I guess no sense protecting one another. Finger pointing in the wrong direction buddy.

Lmao why don't you just ban them
They deleted you from your own forum

no, i get the idea of a cult/sect/group orgy/foundation/union/guild perfectly well thank you.
if you feel the need to be part of a club, carry on. it's not for me, thanks.

I don't think you do get the idea

and I don't understand what harm you think could come of this.

It wouldn't be run by those organizations, in my ideal situation anyway, but just be a separate, non-biased, unaffiliated organization that vets the scammers out there and gives people an idea of who is legit and who isn't without digging through loads of Bitcointalk pages and Reddit. It isn't going to be the OPEC of the Bitcoin mining industry.

But you would rather solo mine with 1 GH? What does that have to do with anything written here? Or are you happy that some people are getting scammed and scammers are upping the ante because that makes your mining more profitable? I'm really struggling to see why something like this isn't necessary and wouldn't be embraced by the community since the days of bASIC, the lost Avalon chips, BFL, BFL, BFL, Cointerra underdelivering, VMC/AMC/SCAM being investigated by the MO Attorney General and going through supposedly 4 chip redesigns while people who invested have NOTHING to show for it. This is an idea that is highly overdue in this marketplace if we are ever to be considered legitimate as we already have enough recent problems with the legal issues of key players in the Bitcoin ecosystem already. Miners have been going with the idea of individual responsibility and buyer beware, etc, which is great and all, but we have seen the fruits of that approach already and they have been bittersweet or downright rottern for the majority of miners.

I think user Cedivad is running http://hashfast.org/List_of_Lies (http://hashfast.org/List_of_Lies), PM him to see if he is behind that one too:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=63794 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=63794)

your thought misleads you.


I think that no harm will come of it, as it is not something that I will partake in.


As I said, if you feel the need to be part of a group, carry on.


yes, i'd rather solo mine with 1gh/s than be part of any centralised cult. thanks.

Where are you getting this cult idea from? What do you think the outcome of something like this would be? You don't have to be a part of the group if you don't want to, but I think it would benefit the community at large and am interested in your opposition to such an idea.

it's not for me, is all i'm saying, i don't see why this is a concern for you.
best wishes

Do NOT pre-order asics....

bitmain is shipping in stock asics... they aint sexy, but they perform very well.

Lessons to learn:

1. Never pre-order ASIC mining hardware.

2. Never store funds on an exchange unless you are converting immediately and withdrawing.

3. Backup your wallet.dat and encrypt that baby.

Pretty simple. I may have missed one or two fundamental lessons. But these 3 should sum it up for every noob and pioneer.

+1 Here here.

We need association or guild of reputable miner fabricators and developers. Here was my post for a guild.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=282030.0

this should be set as a sticky..  or a buyers beware thread up top for all the bullshit scam companies

this should be set as a sticky..  or a buyers beware thread up top for all the bullshit scam companies

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

Just an update: HashFast has still not refunded the 97.95849881 (http://blockchain.info/address/1MWwwz9gpViE3u7o6Sx6huYNBrHyze8QrA) they owe me after taking my funds and failing to deliver by the refund or die they which they chose, nor do I believe they've refunded or sent products to many other customers.

They have also still not responded to a single one of my certified letters. They have no confirmed with me if they will or won't make good on their explicit commitment to refund the full amount I paid— even though its now more than three months since they violated their agreement.

They also continue to aggressively delete all critical comments or concerned views from their self-moderated thread promoting their latest pre-order product. These deletions include deleting messages where they claim to have sent me a refund— which they have not— and where I respond pointing out that they have not done so.

Also keep in mind that when you post in the HF self-moderated thread it bumps it to the top again at least until they delete your post. Doing that keeps their distorted reality more visible than these other threads that are showing people whats missing.  If you're posting something critical in the HF thread: it _will_ be deleted, you might as well at least post it in parallel in the relevant other threads.

(Because of the high rate of deletions in that thread I recommend you post nothing in there at all— but if you feel you must, I don't see a reason to hold the duplication against you: most posts in that thread are deleted.. so just go ahead and simulpost when you post there.)

Also if you ignore hashfast-cl it will make their posts show up small and greyed out for you on the list, so it'll be less distracting. You can still click show to look at their posts at it if you want though... I recommend it if you find them irritating.

I'd still like to see user HashFast_CL banned. No usefull contributions, just spamming bs.

There are many others before HashFast_CL that should be banner, but they won't because thermos is a lazy ass.

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

+1 Here here.

We need association or guild of reputable miner fabricators and developers. Here was my post for a guild.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=282030.0

You should find someone to spearhead this who isn't biased against other reputable people...

Says the guy who got free hardware from both BFL and Hashfast

You need to check your dictionary for the definition of "free".

Are you saying you wouldn't have incorporated the new ASIC hardware on your own, for nothing?  

That's irrelevant.
You're also assuming I didn't pay for it...

So you haven't received any developer (or otherwise) hardware that you did not specifically pay for in cash dollars or Bitcoin?

Are you saying you wouldn't have incorporated the new ASIC hardware on your own, for nothing?  

I don't know you from Adam but your original comment was not only childishly rude, but made no sense. He was suggesting impartial leadership for the group. If you are just looking be an ass find a new thread. You obviously feel threatened by Luke Jr or you are really jealous. Neither of which is taken up in the OP.

You need to check your dictionary for the definition of "free".

Yes, he did incorporate support for the NanoFury for nothing... unless you consider the 2 units that I sent to Luke so that he test and develop with them as a payment - they probably made $50 in their entire life

p.s. a required clarification - it is almost impossible to add support for a given hardware/device/asic/etc without having the actual hardware to test with. So in my opinion those are required development tools.

If I had any BTC, I would bet Hashfast-CL is Icebreaker, but I'd want 2:1 odds.

Cross posting from the official CrashFast 800G thread to hedge against deletion:

HashFast is working as hard as possible to build and deliver upgrade kits and MPP as fast as possible.

Our engineers and production staff work around the clock.  The idea we're resting on our laurels, or mining with customer equipment, or whatever the latest baseless FUD rumor (tropical island/hammock/mai tai) the forum dreams up, is ridiculous.

The HashFast Derangement Syndrome, where the haters spew endless negativity no matter what we do, is getting old.

You are only attempting to pay 105% because that is still pennies compared to what your customers paid you, and you know it, so you can offer 105, 120, 150%, it doesnt matter, none of it is equal to what they paid you.

Release. Buyer hereby fully, forever, irrevocably and unconditionally releases, remises and discharges HashFast Technologies LLC from any and all actions, claims, charges, complaints, demands, causes of action, suits, rights, debts, sums of money, costs, accounts, reckonings, covenants, contracts, agreements, promises, doings, omissions, damages, executions, obligations, liabilities, damages, injuries, consequences, and expenses (including attorneys’ fees and costs), of every kind and nature which Buyer ever had or now has against the Released Parties (the “Claims”).

Non-Disparagement. Buyer agrees that Buyer shall disparage, libel, or criticize the Company or publish any statement concerning the other that this is critical. Buyer likewise shall keep confidential the fact of the settlement, the terms of this Agreement, and the fact and amount of the consideration paid or to be paid hereunder and shall not release or disseminate any information concerning such matters or the terms hereof to any third party without the express written consent of the other parties

Non-Disparagement. Buyer agrees that Buyer shall disparage, libel, or criticize the Company or publish any statement concerning the other that this is critical.

The "no matter what you do" part is funny, as you are not doing anything. You are not shipping. You are not delivering. You are not responding to support email requests. You are not responding to support phone calls. You are not responding to refund requests.

Does that seriously read "buyer shall" rather than "buyer shall not"?  Sounds like a pretty weird thing to have people agree to; "You will badmouth our company, or else!" https://i.imgur.com/4r0iOto.png
( The entire sentence is a bit Engrish )

Their lawyers are taking time.
This is what they are doing.

It looks like that two weeks to order a list of 6 arbitrators in order of preference is not enough for them. They need more (and something tells me that it's just the beginning).
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #qZutOyofyuwg7d9L

Cross posting from the official CrashFast 800G thread to hedge against deletion:

Now he's just a paid shill.  I wonder how those guys at Crashfast pay him - BTC, chips, or "freebies"?

This may be true, selling, but what about delivering? Anything? My Cointerra order, paid in November, arrived last week and hashes away happily since then. I still wait for HashLast products (hence the name).
You sound different since you're back. Are you IceDrill? Did they offer you faster delivery for some propaganda? Don't trust them, they tricked you before.

So when are you guys turning your phone back on?

It seems HashFast_CL had to go home early to mom today and decided to lock the thread at

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=493435.msg5741703#msg5741703


I'm sorry but that statement is total bullshit and you know it. What the fuck have you been doing for the last 6 weeks? No equipment has been shipping, no replacement BBJet units for RMA cases. No MPP for the BBJets. No Upgrade kits, except for 1 or 2 units. No Sierra units. No MPP for the Sierra units.

It's not rocket science... the chips are here and they work. The PCB has been finalized and can be produced in a few days time. You have a supplier of power supplies it seems, exclusively. CIARA can slap together over 500 units a day you claim, give or take a few loose screws in their cases.

With these facts, you should be pumping out hundreds of units every day and ship them world wide

How come nobody is getting the equipment they paid for in September 2013? What is holding you back? Seriously? How long do you think you can keep this up?

Who in their right mind will be so stupid to ever order again from HashFast with the above facts? They will be pouring their BTC into a black hole when placing an order.


If you want to talk about haters, trust me, I'm a big hater. You took my preorder BTC and did a runner with it. You have not delivered anything, except a few hundred BBJet units.

The "no matter what you do" part is funny, as you are not doing anything. You are not shipping. You are not delivering. You are not responding to support email requests. You are not responding to support phone calls. You are not responding to refund requests.

So yes, please enlighten us, other than posting about new vapourware products you are trying to pre-sell, what are you doing?

HashFast has been selling chips for weeks, it's right on the webpage and very easy to find:

Self moderated topics have the warning at the top:


One thing that may be of interest to someone reading such a topic would be to know some objective marker of how many posts were deleted that they can then make their own judgements about how reliable the content in it is. A simple change like this would be helpful:

i'd rather solo mine with 1gh/s.
JUST NO.
 :D

I feel like I can't reasonably do that because I can't vet every complaint with high confidence. And I don't want to just sticky vendors who have screwed _me_, while vendors who have screwed other people don't get the sticky.

Like BFL specifically. How about we sticky the post by Dogie about fabricators?

You guys see this:

http://www.coindesk.com/court-grants-order-freeze-hashfasts-bitcoin-wallets/

Why doesn't Coindesk do better more indepth reporting on BFL, Avalon and HashFast? They all seem to get a pass on the hard questions.

For the same reason why their articles are link campaigns sometimes.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #kJ3DA4DMXizwTFah