Bitcoin Forum

following on from the thread regarding bank issues and a suggestion by Franky, this is something I have thought about before.

would it be worth forming a trade association for Bitcoin related UK businesses to lobby HMRC, banks and politicians to clear the way for us and help us all grow and succeed.

At present government and HMRC policy is murky at best and most banks will not accept bitcoin related businesses. An organised association could help achieve the following

Clear up tax legislation
Champion the cause and increase adoption rates
Improve public image with press releases
Lobby MP's to bring up issues in parliament
Put together packs to send to major banks and lobby adoption
Create best practice guides for companies that wish to trade bitcoin / are mostly bitcoin related.

Any thoughts on practicalities / impracticalities, whether we could actually achieve anything welcome.

Quite happy to be shot down in flames if the community thinks its bullshit.

Interested...

I think it's certainly something that would be really helpful to UK people and the UK government itself doesn't seem very hostile to Bitcoin, probably because of all countries we've had to deal with a lot of shit when it comes to banks. I wouldn't mind helping out with that but it should strictly remain a trade association I wouldn't want it to end up as another Bitcoin foundation that gets uncomfortably close to government and pretends to speak for the whole Bitcoin community.

I'm actually in the UK and as most will know setting up a business, so this kind of thing would directly benefit me if it got started, personally I wouldn't bother with banks but I certainly reckon there are MPs out there that would be sympathetic to the idea of competing currencies to reduce the influence banks have over the economy.

I'm in Yorkshire.

I'm not sure how much I can help but am interested.
I live in the North west.

Also interested.

Probably worth contacting the people already lobbying e.g. HMRC (see the recent stories about HMRC changing its stance re Bitcoin).

I also found this interesting:
https://bitcoinfoundation.org/forum/index.php?/topic/776-foundation-moving-to-the-uk/

thank you OP for being inspired by my idea, i would say a consortium/franchise/trade assosiation would work. i would also say that the trade association (as someone named it) should not be financially tied to a foundation.

we do not want a foundation that is filled with board members taking a cut of foundation donations, purely because they have a board members seat.

how it should work is the association is filled with coders successfully building a better protocol, PR guys WORKING hard with media to promote bitcoin and legal guys WORKING HARD lobbying parliament, HMRC (FCA/PRA).

i truly hope no one gets paid purely because they are a member, picking their nose and scratching their ass. as that breeds corruption and greed, instead of initiative, inspiration, evolution and other positive energies

ofcourse there should be no reason for bitcoin businesses to volunteer inspiring idea's and their time. but not be paid for simply turning up for meetings that don't improve bitcoin

on the other subject
just like Joel Dalais (we are both from the southwest and met at a local bitcoin meeting) we have both found alot of positive interactions with HMRC/FCA/PRA and it feels like there is less of a headache then what the american counterparts are receiving.

No,

the thanks are to you.

Anyway to expand on this.

The kind of things what would need to be decided as a community are

Other things that spring to mind are

Mission statement
Goals
structure
timeline

Once those were agreed

The next stage would be to decide, as a community in the UK, what the roles would be and the skillset needed to fill it. From there people should submit applications to fill the role and the community should decide the best people to fill those roles.

Would perhaps be a good idea to form a membership based association based on one member one vote.

For my mind membership should be free for any UK resident wanting to promote the cause of bitcoin and then once a treasurer and association representatives were elected then discussions towards any kind of forward funding / fund raising should be made by the representatives and voted on by the member.

For any kind of success it would have to be a totally transparent democratic association, not a closed shop of peers.

your starting to go down a dark path.
the trade association would be to reduce licence fee's.
the foundation (i personally prefer the words consortium or co-op) would be for expanding bitcoin.
two separate entities.

i agree the foundation would be membership fee free. but i disagree that there needs to be a treasurer. (someone getting paid to sit on their ass purely because they hold the privkeys).

imagine this world instead:
person X is nominated as worker that will contact HMRC. he writes out his plan of action and a guide of the costs.. he then posts a public key for his project and shows a bounty. people pay into it (kind of like voting) if they think its a worth wile project. and ofcourse he has revealed his real life info so people can slap him with a wet fish if he does not follow through.

there is no need for a centralised system of financing, in this decentralised financial world.

the bounty process would show exactly how the funds would be spent and clearly show how much is given to the project/individual

well thats my 2 minute brainfart idea

I was thinking about something like this but I was thinking it would be more of a community thing, one thing we could do right away is set up a website with trustworthy UK Bitcoin traders/merchants or people who deal in other cryptocurrencies and go from there, I think the moment money tends to get involved is when things get ugly unless that's the motivation to begin with.

Most of the stuff you described doesn't really require money but people with good writing and speaking skills.

+1

EG the guy talking to HMRC would have a bounty of just few satoshi's to cover a 2 hour phonecall, and not 1 btc a week as a wage for only doing 2 hours work. most people like me and a few others wouldnt even claim expenses for such tasks

And for what exactly do we need it ? Proposal is one thing, but to be honest you need any one permission for it since we are decentralized community (what is good thing). It would centralize us, I don't even want to start on downsides of such idea.

as i said the projects and funding should be decentralised (no board members managing it all) but simply a central point to collaborate on idea's and publicise results of these individuals progress.

EG
anyone can put in a 'job listing' of something that they can do to expand bitcoin and if there is costs, add a bounty. or simply work together to develop the plan and implement it, then publicise the benefit their time has brought to bitcoin.

the other thing is that calling it a foundation automatically creates bureaucracy, such as legally having to name trustee's, board members and having to show pound coin finances. but caling it a consortium / co-op can give the decentralised freedoms and allow micro management where individuals own their own projects, and still collaborate with others using a central contact point of the group

It doesn't centralise 'us', but it does present a unified front - which is ultimately essential to be taken seriously and actually manage to result in effective change and wider acceptance, which benefits everyone who uses Bitcoin, whether they're part of a trade body or not.

Agree, my only thoughts are that if there was travel etc involved there is no reason the people doing it should have to foot all the cost and the members should be prepared to help out. Being a bit busy and a bit thick I didn't think it through properly.

The blockchain would be the treasurer.

this is where individuals would lay out their project in detail. if their project was not costly EG just a few phone calls that they did not want expenses. then they would not add a bounty. but for more expensive tasks they would layout the costs and have a bounty, allowing people to donate(vote with funds) if that project would be beneficial.


exactly

+1 :o

One part I would like to see us work on is education..

Guides to bitcoin taxes,
Pamphlets and booklets for merchants,
How to deal with banks etc.

With all of us working together, Im sure we could Provide a lot of good info.

all that is needed to start with is a website that has:
link to IRC channel for us all to collaborate
section to list people that want to talk to media (be interviewed on tv etc)
section for job listings (free and bounty)
section with news/announcements/progress updates
section for education material (everything from the history of last 5 years of BTC, to how to make paper wallets etc)

even having it as a forum structure where anyone can put info into it and have a moderate button to remove FUD posts (if certain number of forum members report it) which can all be script managed

I am happy to start putting together a basic website if people would like me to. Pretty busy today but can start tomorrow. Sometimes I think that just getting a ball rolling is a good start, even if its not perfect.

I am interested in supporting this effort.

A web site, wiki and IRC channel seem appropriate. A forum perhaps less so. Consider getting a regional subforum on bitcointalk?

great.

i think the idea of personal bounties works better then a community pot. so please make that the aim of the job/tasks section.

after all ever since uk government stopped directly funding road repairs/filling pot holes using taxdisk money. or paying benefits from NI contributions. but instead throwing it all into one pot to make it unauditable. our country has now gone down the toilet.

i prefer the system that people who want to use a car, pay to keep the roads flat via the taxdisk bounty going direct to repair work. instead of going towards camerons 2nd mortgage.

i only thought of the forum structure as it does not involve a centralised person uploading every new fact or detail/moderating each upload. a script could be added to an forum code to auto moderate posts. also the forum structure can be split into categories (topics).

but i do think forums dont look official/professional,..

so its just an idea

feel free to PM me to get my skype if you want to have more detailed discussion of the basic outlay to make it as decentralised and micromanaged as possible

I have nothing useful to contribute, but +1 for good idea.

Might be worth separating webpage (pro) and forum (brainstorming etc.)

I have setup a basic forum as a start if this helps. https://moot.it/bitcoinuk (https://moot.it/bitcoinuk)

If anyone has more knowledge in forum setup,
Feel free to set up a better one, this is just so we have a real starting point.

thats the kind of what idea i had in my head :D just needs a professional look to it but it covers all the basics

Updated:less orange :P

You get my vote +1

Sounds like a great idea.  There definitely needs to be a clearer division among labour in the Bitcoin community in technical, marketing and legal, where there seems to be an absence of the latter.

don't know if you guys are the guys behind this - but this group has recently formed. I am seeking to join them.

http://www.digitalcurrencyassociation.org.uk/

no, i dont think this is anyone in this topic. but what i have seen already is that the people that are part of that website are glory hounds. for example, the HMRC already were looking into bitcoin for 2 years. i was even informed of the (at the time unofficial) plan/theory they had to categorize bitcoin in relation to tax this time last year. yet the association have kind of hyped the HMRC announcement, as being done due to them.

im all for people talking to HMRC but when they pretend to be doing the hard work of others, then i start to wonder if they are worth paying a membership fee.

i personally would rather people just do the work and get paid a bounty for doing it. rather then accepting a wage and twist all news related to bitcoin UK, to be done by them.

i am at the moment in a holding pattern to see what the next plan the DCA have, and to see what news they report as being done by them is actually done by them.

we dont want a dozen coders saying they are going to be involved with legal or media projects. so i hope DCA has proper expertise in all area's

what we dont want is to be paying for a group of guys that dont work. and letting others that do work to go unheard and unrewarded. so im not going to join the DCA at this point as i dont see them doing much/anything to improve the UK bitcoin ecosphere.

pretenders taking the glory will hurt bitcoins integrity and perception, we definetly dont want to ruin bitcoins potential for mainstream

i think the DCA need to atleast disclose all their board/employee's along with the expertise they have and a list of current projects, rather then board "subjects" they wish to cover

In general if this would work, the people that lobby must me the same in course of time. If as someone mentioned people can create projects and members fundraise there would be different persons all the time confronting the government, Often with different ideas. In general a organisation, sentralised or desentrilized needs to organisation members that are in the seats over time. unless it just will not seem professionally in the eyes of the authorities and the organisation will be one between many 2ideal organisation" that never get recognition or power.

I belive in the desentilized currency, but not in desentrilized organisations working for the coin should be public accepted. It would be a rope with many ends and everyone pulls in different directions. With this there will never be any affecting big results. Its just the way it is....