Bitcoin Forum

Yup, I just spent the last of my fiat money.  I am now fully solvent!!

In December 2013, I bought $4k of mining hardware and have about 4.5BTC as of this writing.

One day last week, I paid off my mortgage ($96k) and spent the rest on gold.  I figured those are better places for a constantly inflating currency to be invested rather than sitting in a <1% savings account or unpredictable stock market.  

The interesting thing will be to see what the difference between gold and BTC will be.   I picked up 3oz of gold for about $4,200.  So it'll be interesting to see which will serve me better in the long run!  

I know this is just a small drop in the bucket compared to some of you whales out there, but it's my little contribution to keeping my hard-earned money out of the banksters debt-slavery system.  :) (except all the gold and paper wallets, which are stored safely in a bank security vault lol)

Congrats!  :)

In a world fiat debt based system, to determine true wealth it's not how much money you have, but how little you owe. Once one becomes debt free (surprisingly rare) then it's a measure how far into the positive you go with real assets, e.g. houses, land etc.

Its always a good idea to diversify your capital. Ive done something similar to you.

Just curious, I would you pay for your daily expenses? In your area, are you able to buy everything you need with bitcoins?

Hi dre_2ooo,

I am 100% into cryptocurencies. No fucking FIAT.

Are you an expert of gold ? I would like to get some advices about it.

Did you get coins or bars ?

What about silver ? People say that it has more potential than gold. Is that true ?

What about other precious metals ?

Thanks.

go to your local coin dealer and get some silver and gold coins/bars

Especially coins if you can. Jewelry and coins gain more value over time than bars.

This. Fiat is irreplacable in daily life as of now. How are you managing it?

This is very interesting. I think living without FIAT isn't possible yet, but is it? Your moves seem nice and it's good that you have some diversification, but why would you say that stock markets are more unpredictable than BTC or metal markets? One thing in stock markets is that you gain more capital annually trough dividends. Your gold coins however don't get any bigger. Don't get me wrong, I own physical gold too, but I'm just interested why you don't see stock markets as part of diversification.

This is the true quote right here, i am debt free because of bitcoins surprising but true and i trust bitcoin more everyday and not about the value anymore, weather the price is down or high its always a saviour to me..
The only thing one faces now, which i see now as un-escapable is TAX, from purchased houses rented or for other commercial purposes, the govt always find a way to hit back at us but i see a bright future with bitcoins even if all i have is bitcoins and no fiat i will always be hopeful.

Good questions.  I am still paid in fiat, of course, by my employer.  My plan from here on out is to use only what's needed for day-to-day spending in fiat, as my area is not BTC enlightened (although I have bought/sold on craigslist in BTC). Anything extra, that I would have traditionally put in a savings account, is going into real assists (ie. Bitcoin/miners, gold, improving my house, etc...)


Good for you! :)

I am not an expert, but I did a lot of research online.  I decided to buy physical gold, not paper bullshit.  I just went to my local coin shop and picked up some American gold eagle coins.  I used an accurate pocket-scale and a set of digital calipers to verify they were the correct dimensions and weight (nothing is denser than gold, except some radioactive metals).  Then I held each coin on a finger and lightly tapped it to make sure it gave out a beautiful long-lasting ringing noise at the same frequency I heard on Youtube videos.  I am paranoid as I have seen lots of articles and posts about Chinese counterfeit gold, so these tests satisfied my scrutiny.  Plus, the shop has a good reputation and has been in business over 25yrs.

I don't know anything about silver, other than it is much easier to fake and more volatile in the market. I only wanted gold since it has been the go-to source of intrinsic value since the dawn of man.


Stocks are volatile, to me, since they are subject to the whim of the banksters and fed.  Inflation rises? Stocks rise.  Some bubble pops?  Stocks fall.  Dollar collapses? Stocks fall.  The Fed is printing 40 Billion (with a B) USD per month to buy bonds to try and emulate a negative interest rate.  This exponential growth can't last.  When the Dollar collapses, it will bring all the world's markets down with it.  

Gold, real estate, firearms, long-storable food, and BTC should be safe from these collapses, albeit they won't earn you the same rate of return as the market... (except BTC, that'll go to the moon, of course :D).  The market is run by the fuckers that want us all to stay enslaved in the debt fiat bank-run oligarchy disguised as "Republic Capitalism."  More than the above points, my heart-felt believe about not wanting to be a cog in that debt machine keeps me out of the markets.  The notion that you must keep your money in their controlled and insider-manipulated stock system to keep your bank notes from losing value over time because their rigged fiat-printing insolvent money policy is not even a store of value makes me sick.  I'll have no part of it, thank you.



Thank you! :). It feels like pure freedom!  I have worked so hard and been so disciplined to save up for this day.  It's ironic, though, how I had to be part of the system by taking out a loan for a house to acquire the house, so I couldn't have gotten to this point without monetizing debt. Weird.


Good for you!  Yes, taxes are inescapable.  It makes me angry to even think that the income tax was invented to help pay off the goddamned interest charge the gov't owes the Fed.  I'm all for building roads, schools, fire dept., etc..., but fuck that bullshit --my fucking wages are going to payoff some rich 1% private banksters' interest charge (.25% currently of all the money printed, every day).  

Don't buy gold or bitcoin, buy scarce non-renewable resources instead.

Get yourself a barrel of oil and store it. You'll be a billionaire in 30 years.

Troll spotted.

Not really. If they don't find any new oil resources it will eventually run out and people would buy oil at very high prices.

I agree on many things. If dollar collapses (which seems inevitable), the assets you mentioned will indeed be very valuable. But if you choose stocks like Coca-Cola or Procter and Gamble, which have raised their dividends for over 50 consecutive years, I'd say it would take a lot for them to decrease their dividends. Their prices can go down of course even if they don't cut dividend, but I find it very difficult to imagine a situation where you can buy Coca-Cola yielding > 4 %. Having that kind of dividend history makes prices of these kind of stocks very stable. And owning them provide you with annually growing stream of income.

I want to point out that I'm not against your decisions, it's just great to have a conversation about stocks with someone  :D

I was at a similar spot as OP once. At times I was 110% in bitcoin. That doesn't mean I (or he) didn't have cash in these moments. It means having fiat debts exeeding the cash in the pocket while having btc.

Nope. The price of oil will go up and stabilise as demand will decline with time.
We only depend on oil on short term, not on long term.
Once you switch to other energy and technology you are not dependent on it any more.

No point on keeping oil-barrels as storing is very expensive : the volume is very big compared to the value.
Oil-barrel need maintenance, you need to protect them from heat, cold, water and damages.
Your oil-barrels can get robbed or damaged.
Almost no one is buying oil at the ratio of a single barrel. Transportation is too expensive to consider delivering a single or few barrels.

Even if the value of oil increase, you need to find a buyer, deliver it and you have to pay years of storage.

Love the commitment to an unusual and hopefully lucrative lifestyle choice

Yes this is true and a fun conversation.  I welcome all points of view.   To have enough in coca cola, etc.. to where the dividend income is significant, means that a significant amount of one's wealth is subject to a market collapse or if liquidity is needed and the market is down, I wouldn't want to sell to provide said liquidity.  

With gold\BTC, they are highly liquid and you can keep them in your possession whilst still having potential to appreciate.  I (and most of us) do own stocks by proxy via the 401k through my work. So, I guess I actually am diversified into them as well, but they're kind of out of sight/out of mind.  :P

Real estate is not liquid, but caaaaaaan always be borrowed against in times of dire need.  If shit hit the fan, turning stocks into food, shelter, and comfort seems highly inefficient and risky to me.

I guess at the end of the day, I value being solvent and value relying on fiat as little possible.  I absolutely seek to increase my wealth, but I'm not trying to be some wolf of btc wall street or Gordon Gecko or get absurdly rich in my investments.

Even if we switched to 100% electric vehicles,   every single mechanically moving device (including the cogs in an electric motor) rely on... you guessed it.... oil.  Oil will ALWAYS be precious. Think about it, think about every single moving part in machinary in industry that builds... well... everything!

There are MANY silicon and graphite based lubricants out there....

You should've waited on the gold and checked the COT open interest. The large commercials are maxxing out their humongous short positions right now. They are gonna drive gold into the ground shortly. The good news is that after this next smash, gold is going parabolic. Do not panic sell, just stay long through the storm or selloff now and buy in cheaper later.

That's what synthetics are for.  And there will always be enough non-synthetic oil for these purposes.

If that's what you think the outcome will be;  it still could make sense to buy some gold now,  and double down later.   After all, the commercials might be in for a short squeeze early if the s*** hits the fan.


You probably can't use gold or BTC or real estate to pay for your every day needs,  but  nobody says you HAVE to use fiat as your value storage  ----  it's just that  BTC or gold is a higher-risk for value storage,  when your needs are denominated in fiat.

You can pledge the asset in exchange for fiat-denominated debt.  Or just use unsecured short-term debt,  such as a credit card  settled up in full every month, so you are not making an interest payment.

In case currency loses value;  the value of interest paid also goes down, and an increase in value of whatever asset you hold your value in:  can wipe out the cost of interest you had to pay.

If you are 100%  confident of a parabolic increase in BTC and gold price above today's value soon enough;   it could make sense to take  out short-term fiat loans,  or just use a credit card in order to pay for day to day liquidity needs  in local currency.   Then  settle out the  payments by  reducing how much gold you are buying  -- if you have a fiat denominated income,    convert the fiat you didn't spend that month  minus emergency reserve to your chosen  "value storage" assets.

If parobolic price increase in gold does NOT materialize, or gets delayed, then you have a potentially catastrophic loss, however.

good to have both.

I have done something very similar. I hope it works out well for us!

I heard that too, just curious for new sources of info - where do you have that info from?

Let's see if this is really what will happen.

Don't think I saw anyone mention the importance of oil in creating plastics.  Things like even your toothbrush.

The gold market is highly manipulated. How do we know if it will go down soon ?

Sooo,

If the dollar is going to collapse, why wouldn't you go short 30 year treasuries in a major way?

Because I don't want to wait & have my money tied up in such a risky (in the short-term) proposition, and when the dollar does collapse, who's to say I'll even be able fulfill the shorted orders and cash out (ie. the system might be completely shut or locked down)?



This.  The fraudsters and banksters will always suppress the gold price.  If the price is driven into the ground from shorts, 'twill be a good opportunity to buy, no?

Of course it is great if banksters put the price down (while they still have the power) but when is the bottom ?

I would like to hear some gold expert about it.

I know that you can see the price manipulation when banks dump gold massively instead of selling it little by little. They obviously don't want to make profit but drive the price down. We need to know when is the next dump.

I'm not an official "expert" (whatever that word means), but I spent a huge amount of time getting informed about gold. IMO, the rubber band is FAR streched to the downside, in fact, unbelievably far. Gold is at the price of production, and some claim it has never been so cheap in history compared to the amount of fiat existing.

If you watch the day-to-day manipulation, its clear those guys have a harder and harder time to keep the price that low. They just can't do it anymore (doesn't mean another spike down isn't possible).

No way gold is going to $800, and unlikely it's going to $1000 either. We are very far down now.

Glad to hear this. :)

Do you have any links to any articles/videos where I can learn more about this?

Read kingworldnews.com, silverdoctors.com, zerohedge.com, jesses american cafe, and maybe even the economy section of this forum.

This is my favorite blog to learn about the day-to-day manipulation (keep in mind, those guys are selling PMs, but still it's good info):

http://blog.milesfranklin.com/

Can you comment on silver market too ?

I have all savings in crypto too, I won't be giving bankers a penny.

Silver will go way higher than gold, I'm sure of that for several reasons: Silver is used for a lot of practical industrial purposes (gold is not), so unless they physically/technically find a way to replace that silver, the industry HAS to have it (Chinese solar energy is said to be a big one).

The silver/gold ratio is relatively high now (you get a lot of ounces of silver for one ounce of gold), because silver moves stronger than gold (up, as well as down). That means you can buy silver at an even better price now and it will go even higher. Perfect for an investor, if you can stomage the volatility.

Next, once everybody is rushing for precious metals and prices rise steeply, gold will be too expensive for ordinary people (even if this is just a psychological effect, like with BTC and LTC). So people will rush to silver coins. Right now the focus of the world is way more on gold, but that might change.

Also, the silver market for silver available for investment is very small, much smaller than the gold market. All of this could lead to a real explosion.

I expect silver at $200 easily, maybe even $500 or more, in nominal terms.

Hope this helps.