Bitcoin Forum

The IRS currently considers cryptocurrency to be property. But that doesn’t mean one should avoid reporting gains. The agency has always been more lenient on taxpayers and investors who jump the gun in this regard. Coming forward sooner rather than later can help prevent stricter penalties or fines because of non-reporting.
https://usethebitcoin.com/understanding-bitcoin-and-taxes/

Do we really need to reveal how many bitcoins we have? What are your thoughts on this? Bitcoin as a decentralized system should be tax free. Does this defeat the purpose of the invention? To avoid the centralized system as well as those huge taxes?  ;D

I don't think so far, I think bitcoin has nothing to do with taxes. we know that bitcoin is decentralized, there are no third or fourth parties. whereas until now not all countries have been able to recognize bitcoin, some have banned it. it makes me sometimes sad. :'(

Yes of course it seems to me that in the aftermath of the adoption of crypto currency, it is inevitable that we will pay some taxes from it

I think that it is the decentralized nature of bitcoin and the other cryptocurrencies that make them tax-free. That is one of the advantages we derive from owning some amount of cryptocurrencies. No governmental institution or individual can place any form of taxation on the currency.

Well for me, it's not about declaring your holding for possible tax deduction but I think the tax should be impose on the transaction to the exchange. Holding is not subject for tax but if you move your holding for trading or for whatever reason that should be subject to tax.

Well some people base on they want to make post and become famous they say the amount of bitcoin which they don't even have..  So the if the government want to impulse tasks on the people there we be fake payment because not every body that said they have that have it.  For me it is not the best option

IRS has been seeing bitcoin as a properly ever since 2014 https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-virtual-currency-guidance
it is not really news and this above link is a lot better than using a link from some click bait  site in my opinion ;)


no we don't need to and we aren't but not all of us are using bitcoin as a currency. most people are trading bitcoin to make profit and when you make profit on a centralized exchange you also have to worry about taxes and then report it so that you are not evading them which is illegal.
in other words it comes down to your usage.

I do not think so far bitcoin is nothing to do with taxes.When we income or profit from BTC then we given taxes. it is the decentralized nature of bitcoin and other crypto that make them taxes free. it is one of the good advantage. no gov.institution or private organization any from taxation on currency.

Our society needs taxes. We felt like taxes are big because of the middle-man in everything we use and eat. Taxes double then. Why do we have to avoid taxes though?

As far I know bitcoin is beyond governments control and no rules of government works here so, it is totally a tax free system.

As far as I know the "property" definition changed in the 2017 tax cuts act.  Now it must be declared as a quasi-currency following forex rules.  Meaning take a hit on every trade that made gains.

The holding of bitcoin or for that matter any crypto should not and probably won't in itself incur a tax liability however any profits from trading or increase in the value of your holding in all probability will, just as trading on the stock markets etc would.

If the people are declaring their annual fiat income to the government to determine how much total taxes will be paid therefore its should be applicable in Bitcoin too. Lot of people specially the rich were charges of tax evasion because they did not pay the right taxes then it will be unfair if those earning of Bitcoin will be exempt from this government policy specially if Bitcoin was declared legal to use. 

Well, initially, one of the attractions of bitcoin is that it is decentralized and tax free because Bitcoin is not a currency issued by any country. But, over time, Bitcoin must be subject to the rules of a country's tax obligations to be accepted. that's something that can't be avoided.

Taxes are paid on profits from bitcoin transactions.
Of the profits, and not just because of the fact that you have the bitcoins.
The main question is whether there is a profit in the conditions of the collapse of the cryptocurrency market, the crash of the course to the classic currencies. If losses, then why pay tax?
For example, in Russia, cryptocurrencies are not considered a currency, but a property. The tax service has defined the procedure for taxation of transactions with bitcoin. But while all this is not well developed. There are only certain instances where the declared income from cryptocurrency.

Exactly so but we know that different quarters have been calling for proper recognition of bitcoin and cryptos since it will give them increase from the proceed of their coins, making them drive big cars and live good live.

That means if we/they keep agitating for recognition, the decentralized purpose will off course be "uncoated", the government will come in and this business of crypto will be emersed in regulation.

Take for example, if the struggle for ETF with SEC (which is on government coverage) goes through, what do we expect that will happen with taxing? Off course, it will be in line with the practice of tax from bitcoin.

No, we do not. The more we reveal, the more we get risks of getting hacked. Bitcoin is all about transparency. Bitcoin was created to oppose the corrupted banks. Everything related to bitcoin must kept anonymous. The government must know that. Added to that statement, paying taxes to the government will ruin the fundamentals of bitcoin and how it was created for. I would rather keep my bitcoin for myself and not allow it to be seen.

The government is interested in profits from bitcoin transactions, for example, when trading on the stock exchange.
Taxes are taken on the basis of profit, not just from the fact of ownership of bitcoin.
If you just pay with bitcoins, then there is no profit and no taxes to pay.

Not really. Even though bitcoin is decentralised, it doesn't mean that the government isn't able to tax it. They obviously will and are doing so because they see a huge industry that they could take advantage of in terms of tax revenue.

Decentralisation here is only about the bitcoin network itself. What the government does is out of our control.

In my country, when you lodge a tax return, you only need to mention the amount of gains made through trading or investing in bitcoin, and not the actual amount of bitcoin that you own. Obviously this could be different in different countries. If you're trading a lot of BTC, constantly, on an exchange, and the government asks you for figures, then you should definitely provide them accurately if you want to stay out of trouble.

Else, if you're just using bitcoin without trading it against fiat, I doubt you do.

What the tax authority is talking about revealing here is not about the total bitcoin you have, but the amount you have sold because since its regarded as property, its the capital gains that is subjected to tax and that would not happen if you didn't sell your property which in this case bitcoin.

From the legal and civic point of view, the onus on disclosure is on the individual show to the tax authority the total of income generated from selling crypto currency that have increased in value over the years. On the decentralization and how bitcoin income should be tax free based on your suggestion is out of it because as a dream gets bigger, some interest and variables that have not be thought of becomes an important fact that needs to be dealt with. This is exactly the point where bitcoin is that compromise needs to be made on the part of enthusiasts to have a problem free environment.

What the tax authority needs to do since they are helpless without individual disclosure is to review the current policy if that is what is leading people away from paying willing couple with the fact that they recognize that government would have to spend more in other to unravel the people behind every wallet address there is fund.

I'm not against paying taxes, it's just that how can those guys really implement it hundred percent to everyone who tried to hoard bitcoins. There are ways to buy coins out of exchanges and those transactions are untraceable specially if you have multiple wallets that is not directly connected with your identity. If people really wants to launder money using bitcoin then the government can't really do anything about it.

Though humans generally do not like to be taxed, I beleive if the IRS want to tax crypto coin holders it is a step in the right direction for formal government recognition and approval. I also beleive this recognition can make crypto more appealing for the business world to accept crypto in their exchanges. So yes it is a bit worrying to be taxed but we can view it in a positive light too!

And why would you care? Why would you be concerned that they can't implement it 100%? Even though murder is forbidden it happens every day and many cases never get solved. Same thing with Bitcoin. There will always be money laundering and there will always be people who don't pay taxes or don't declare their coins. Laws are meant to be broken, as the saying goes. I'm one of those people who would rather leave the country than surrender to unjust laws, and a law telling me to tell the governments how many coins and on what addresses I'm holding is certainly unjust.

Yes, I think, Bitcoin as a decentralized system must be tax-free. But, we cannot avoid taxation if the government oblige it.

I feel that bitcoin should not be tax free as tax is the most important for any country and bitcoin has no intention to evade tax and this not the purpose of the bitcoin. So bitcoin should be under tax system like the fiat money which will make it more popular and reliable in the world.

There are no taxes associated with BTC. This is mainly because it is run on a decentralized market and for that the need of paying taxes is eliminated. Maybe this is the reason as to why the government in some countries have banned it.

Bitcoin is not for evading taxes as such type not intention is not good. Taxes are important for the development of any economy. Moreover taxes will make the bitcoin reliable and so we should not use for evading tax. Bitcoin should not be tax free

I don’t think users of crypto currency have to answer anyone for their coins. The core theme of this innovation is that is a decentralized currency market and there should be no taxes to pay upon these coins.

Even though if the IRS classified it as a property it doesn't mean it gets exempted to being taxed, remember that even properties such as land is subject to tax. This taxes includes real estate tax and most commonly is the capital gains tax. Just like stocks they are classified as property/asset but they still are still subject to tax This big misconception could really make a man be in trouble as IRS could easily file a criminal investigation after the audit for you is wrong. This might be common now as the U.S. government is saying that they will focus more on AML in cryptocurrency related transactions.

People should choose, pay taxes or not for bitcoin.

The problem with this is that bitcoin is decentralized and you are anonymous in it but you cannot hide all your money forever. There would be a time that you will withdraw it and all of us will do that in the future. You need to have third party like exchanges or banks in order to encash or transpose all your earnings if you need them. The government will go in this time and do their part whether it can be taxed or not.

We know that the attitude of states towards the decentralized crypto currency is mostly more negative than friendly. States will always dislike the fact that they can not fully control the decentralized crypto currency. In order for the crypto currency to penetrate into our life and develop further, it is necessary for the state to legalize it, that is, it determines the status of the crypto currency, its conditions of circulation in the society and determined its taxation. Thus, in order for the state to recognize the Crypto currency, we will have to pay tax on profits for its use. If we do not do this, the state can limit the circulation or even prohibit its circulation inside the country. I do not think that paying taxes on profits for the use of crypto-currency is contrary to Satoshi Nakamoto's vision or, in general, to the principles of its existence.

All of  us know that Bitcoin is decentralized and no having third side. Thus, it is not necessary to need taxes here. Besides, Bitcoin is not accepted in many countries. Briefly,  no tax in Bitcoin makes inventors earn more from Bitcoin

Bitcoin can make incomes for people, so it needs taxes. Moreover, Bitcoin was trading quite spread in some countries all around the world. With the develop of the cryptocurrency now, sooner, BItcoin will be taken taxes. That is inevitable.

Bitcoin and Taxes. Well, of course, this is something complex, where most users consider taxation on bitcoin to be against the goal of creation Bitcoin.

I think this will be a long debate, considering that most users are interested in Bitcoin because they hope it is completely tax-free.

Taxes is good only if the government will use it in a right way but since many corrupt politicians people are afraid to pay their taxes. I think governmetn will be having a hard time monitoring your bitcoin holdings, because they cannot control this so its really up to you if you will declare it.

Taxes are great for a country. It helps with services for both the rich and poor and anyone in between. But most countries do not use their rights with taxes properly and abuse the system. This is why I really hate the tax systems. I do like the fact that bitcoin isn't taxed.

tax will only apply to countries that do adopt bitcoin because the state also benefits from crypto or bitcoin, but what about countries that do not legalize bitcoin? Will it be taxed by bitcoin or not?

The tax is not on bitcoin. Income tax (sic!) from bitcoin transactions.
There are property taxes - on real estate, cars, etc. And there are income taxes. If there is no income from bitcoin transactions, then there is no need to pay tax. In the conditions of the fall of the rate, most likely the majority has such a situation.
A citizen shall submit a tax return. If the tax service has any doubts, it will be able to check its correctness. Anonymity and untraceable transactions turned out to be a myth. Besides, you can't buy anything with bitcoin. Except exotic (pizza) and criminal case. Therefore, the change bitcoin to Fiat currency, which is credited to the Bank account. And it's very easy to track.

Legalization of bitcoin is hard to implement in a country, just like here in my country government did not implement any law that state the bitcoin to pay tax. Bitcoin taxation is not directly applied on the bitcoin it may only cause on the holders per transaction that have.
But for me, paying tax is just a little amount that you contribute in paying by your government in order to improve or have an economic growth. So, I don't hesitate my self to pay if ever we required or oblique to pay taxes.

I don't really agree with declaring our crypto assets because I know that some governments would tend to manipulate it. The idea of bitcoin is having a decentralized transactions, and that's what we deserve to preserve.

Of course they will use it for their own advantage. If you declare your coins they can demand proof of ownership like an address. If they get your addresses this will be like signing the coins with your name. If those coins ever end up in the hands of criminals they will harass you and demand to be given the list of all your payments and clients. No thank you!

It would be more correct if all countries first took bitcoin, and then introduced taxes.

Since  birth of bitcoin the taxation issue is always a question, because of course the government will always ask their part, but  bitcoin is designed being anonymous and P2P transaction being decentralized there's.no way the government can account all transactions and determine which is taxable or not, as of now the government does not able to formulate any policy to apprehend transaction using bitcoin. 

I don't think all parties should know the assets we have. the bitcoin concept that has to be decentralized and cannot be intervened by any party for any reason. I will strongly reject this

According to regulations issued by the IRS, Yes, profit or loss on the sale of crypto must be reported. And when the rules come, you may oppose them, but that will only create difficulties for yourself if you don't pay your taxes. Even though I personally don't agree with crypto taxation like Bitcoin, because as you say, it defeats the purpose of the Bitcoin discovery.

if bitcoin is taxed then the profit for bitcoin holder is bitcoin regulation. with the tax imposed on the cryptocurrency, it is ensured that bitcoin is legal, so that if there is already legalization, a law will appear which regulates cryptocurrency.

It seems the author of that piece confuses different notions

Which means he doesn't actually understand the difference between a capital gains tax, property tax, and income tax. At first he claims that the IRS "currently considers cryptocurrency to be property" and then he ends up with stating that the IRS "considers virtual currencies to be very much the same as all other forms of currency when it comes to taxation, including fiat monies". It just tells us that he doesn't in fact know how Bitcoin is actually taxed by the IRS. Just in case, I don't know either as I'm not a US citizen or resident but I'm well aware of these taxes and when you should pay them. If you have property like land, real estate, etc you have to declare it every year and pay respective taxes on it for just having it. This is obviously not the case with Bitcoin as you have to declare only the profits earned with it, so what you should pay is more like a capital gains tax. But you don't pay a capital gains tax on your money, only an income tax when you receive this money, for example, from your employer as pay

actually, if bitcoin is taxed, it might be categorized as an asset, or sales and purchase tax between countries, but if that happens, this can make it more widely recognized by many countries and it is very likely that business people switch to using bitcoin as a payment instrument in business they, and can affect the exchange rate of Bitcoin more stable.

i don't think bitcoin is a tax.if that so,then this is an asset or if bitcoin is tax then they are using it to purchase tax on the countries using bitcoin,if that's happen may of the people ar using this as a currency of as a payment method.

Bitcoin can hardly be taxed,because of the reason that bitcoin is very complex.

I think bitcoin should be treated as a normal curreny like GBP or USD, to be honest you can treat it as a property and tax it but nowdays it is used as a payment method which excludes it from being a property, goverments should stop being materialistic and stop taxing everything.

What ever the tax category  it may fall they should provide a law on how  to cater taxation that is fair and just to the users and the government because as a citizen we are duty bound to pay taxes, Because those taxes will return to us in form of services.

The complexity of Bitcoin has nothing to do with a tax related to it. You make an income (paid in Bitcoin) You pay the tax related to this income no matter what, how, who, where. Also there is something called "accounting". It isn't difficult. I suppose you never had to pay a tax in your life. You're lucky... or not.

So collecting tax is now about being materialistic now? Bitcoin as a property is taxable even before it has been recognized by the government and they have the right to tax everything as it is their main way of having income for the country which you will also benefit from. Taxes are what I say a necessary burden for us all as this is what makes the country up and running and continue its development. Now exempting income tax coming from cryptocurrency will be a big missed opportunity for the government as it will be a considerable amount, also if they exempt one stream a lot of people might take advantage and actually go to where they won't be paying taxes.

IRS should levy tax on earning from btc but this tax must be levied only on profit gain from btc. btc should not be accept as asset as it has not more stability of price than the land or other non transferable assets. anyhow more policies can be made in future as more countries will accept btc as legal source of income.

indeed, bitcoin is a decentralized system, it should be closed off and tax free. When it is started to be open and centralized, it means control is not in our hands fully, but government has intervention. I don't agree if tax is on and we agreed to the statement that crypto is property.

Bitcoin is a decentralised currency so there is no tax implented. Few countries accepted bitcoin but they don't put any tax for that. It is consider to be an aset as well. It depends on the countries who accepted bitcoin as legal currency. I would like to pay tax for crypto earnings. As an individual I don't have any issues in paying taxes for my crypto earnings.

Well, that's the rule. in the US, The IRS has made it mandatory to report bitcoin transactions of all kinds, no matter how small in value. So, every US taxpayer is required to keep records of all purchases, sales, investments in, or use bitcoin to pay for goods or services (which are considered IRS barter). There is no other choice, besides complying with the regulation.

well if you spend your bitcoins you still pay taxes to some extend so I guess you cant avoid it but as its a decentralized system nobody should be able to see unless you get huge ammounts of money on your bank account out of nowhere. So selling your bitcoins for cash would be the best solution unless you have huge amounts of bitcoins but somebody who has huge amounts of bitcoins knows how to turn them to cash. In my country you need to hold your cryptos 1 year after that they are tax-free but I dont know how they do it with altcoins as most of them are not exchanged for cash but for btc and I dont know if I would need to hold those exchanged btc another year or not...

Revealing on how many bitcoins you have shouldn't be an issue if you are going to pay taxes.

You will sell your bitcoins for USD or local currency that you prefer and just pay your tax accordingly and declare it as your income. And the taxation would depend on the fiat value of your income and not with the total amount of bitcoin you have. Well this crypto taxation thing is really confusing but just file a revenue tax.