Bitcoin Forum

another massive altcoin dump has been going on today specially in big coins like Ethereum which actually was among the biggest dumped coins today with nearly 20% drop. and that led to a small but still a 5% drop in bitcoin price today.

https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/02/the-collapse-of-eth-is-inevitable/amp/

interestingly enough despite all that bitcoin price is still pretty close to $7k mark and it is resisting all the money that is exiting from the altcoin market through bitcoin causing this sell pressure in bitcoin market.

people always say bitcoin drops makes altcoins dump. but this example among a lot of others is showing it is the other way around in a lot of cases.
I am wondering how many more times do we have to see these types of dumps before we start accepting there is a big problem with the altcoin market and that is damaging bitcoin too.

I don't think there is some real connection between altcoin and Bitcoin market. Yes, trends on both influence each other but on the other hand each of them is functioning independent and I don't think that solving some issues on the altcoin market would necessary influence Bitcoin market in positive way and prevent it from dumping. There are many other factors that cause dumps and corrections.
That kind of connection between altcoin and Bitcoin market that would beat negative influence on both sides isn't achievable.

How is the collapse of Ethereum being unavoidable anything new to any experienced bitcoiner? anyone that has been around here for a while and has read about altcoins, has already understood this fact and the only reason they may be still be holding ETH is in hopes of dumping their bags to the bigger fool that still didn't understood Vitalik's clusterfuck cannot be repaired and it's now only a matter of time that it crumbles upon itself.

Im sure tho that there is a ton of noobs with a lot of money out there, such as that ex wall street guy Mike Novogratz which was always pumping Ethereum in the news. We'll see these noobs with money dumping their coins, and we may go lower, and that will put an end into the bear market, we need some big figures to lose hope to end this cycle.

And in addition, I have heard that this dump was because once again, more Mtgox bullshit, or some sort of whale moving coins into an exchange or what not. Same old stories as always.

For let's say 5% to 10% bitcoin price drop after the massive altcoin dump, we should not considered it as a direct hit to bitcoin why it's price fell "for now".

Let's extend the period of testing resistance for the following days and let's see if this altcoin drop really have a big impact why bitcoin price sharply fell or it's just that, others go with the flow and eventually a price recovery will happened in a span of short period. Yes the altcoin drop "might" does have an effects on the current bitcoin price movement and the price as of now Im writing this is around $6,900+ but we can't conclude yet if this will be on a long term span.

Bitcoin price momentum this past few days really got spoiled today. Now let's see how far this will go.

There is.

The main problem with altcoins is that there is next to no solid depth in any of their fiat orderbooks. If an altcoin whale for example is trying to liquidate its holdings for the best possible price (without suffering from too much slippage), they'll have to carefully dump their own orderbook down, but also convert a large chunk of their altcoins to Bitcoin from where these Bitcoins will be sold for USD.

If you look at how altcoins have been bleeding lately, and especially Ethereum, then it's safe to say that Ethereum is one of the main reasons there is so much selling pressure.

Market cap of both Bitcoin and Ethereum in Juli of this year;

Bitcoin $126 billion.
Ethereum $50.5 billion.

Market cap of both Bitcoin and Ethereum today;

Bitcoin $120 billion. -5%
Ethereum $25 billion. -50%

Ethereum is just one pile of shit. ICO's need cold hard fiat, no shitty token that's worth $500 one day and $250 the other day.

People say altcoins drop because of bitcoin either because they don't understand how Economics works or because a bear trend is going on, or they just don't understand how anything works.

Bitcoin Diamond rose by 140%. What the actual fuck? The entire altcoin market almost collapsed, and this shit got pumped up, like its on a huge fat roll of weed.

Look at the market lol: https://coinmarketcap.com/

https://i.imgur.com/lWCYukt.png

It goes both ways. In early 2017, people were buying BTC to pile into altcoin and token markets. In 2018, people are dumping altcoins and tokens and then selling BTC to recover their USD.

There are lots of battered altcoin investors and ICO companies licking their wounds right now, and recovering whatever USD value they can. But fundamentally, the altcoin markets are good for the price of BTC. Look at all the BTC liquidity across altcoin exchanges, spread across the order books. At least some of that BTC would otherwise be on the ask side of BTC/USD markets if altcoin markets didn't exist.

I remember how you locally could only buy BTC and LTC in the early days of 2017, while right now you can buy over 100 coins and tokens with fiat, so the days where BTC is the main crypto bridge are largely over.

That also applies to Ethereum. Instead of using Ethereum to buy tokens, everyone can buy the tokens with fiat directly. You know what most newbies think about Bitcoin and Ethereum? Slow and expensive cripple coins.

Good thing however is that the herd always functions as pretty accurate counter indicator. If they massively jump into pump and dump coins, you know that you are safely sitting in Bitcoin.

In my opinion this dump was mostly lead by the ICOs dumping and then followed by the ETH.

Basically people dump their ICO for ETH
Dump ETH for either BTC or USD and get out of the markets for good.

BCD is a bitcoin fork and the reason why its up 140% is because Binance finally after almost 8 months or so opened deposits and withdraws so its no longer traded as a "future" coin.

That doesn't mean the altcoin/fiat markets have more volume or depth. Outside the top ~20 coins, the BTC markets are dominant over fiat markets. People are entering and exiting thousands of coins. And within the top ~20 coins, BTC markets are still significant. And hardly any one is funding their Binance accounts by wiring money to Tether (and vice versa); these USDT pairs are not representative of actual fiat inflow/outflow from the markets. Take them out of the equation and alt/BTC pairs are far more significant overall.

Whether you dump on the BTC market or USD market is just a matter of slippage or arbitrage. The fact is that BTC markets are definitely used as entries/exits from altcoins, and significantly so, because altcoin markets are so illiquid.

That will slowly but surely change when it comes to the top tier coins. If you look at EOS for example, it has nearly surpassed Ethereum's fiat volumes, and this is only the beginning of what has to come.

The only reason Ethereum is technically still having much higher daily volumes, comes from their main token ties. If you discard that, EOS will soon have surpassed Ethereum for good, especially with a Coinbase listing being a matter of time.

That being said, the dumps are picking up speed with Ethereum currently down 22% which is madness. Probably won't take long before it hits a price below the $200 mark. Still not a tempting enough short term dip to buy.

How extraordinarily depressing. It's such a shitty shitcoin that if I attempted to shit on it, my turd would actually curl around and fight its way back up my colon.

Vitalik, the non giver of Ether agrees with you. Ethereum is a shitcoin.

He thinks it's so shitty, that he's providing Bcash advice on how to become a great ICO platform (no joke), lol. That dude must be struggling with himself or he sold a large enough chunk of his Ether stash that he doesn't care anymore.

Vitalik suggesting bitcoin to become an ICO platform is not a new thing, he has been doing it for years and has been put down by bitcoin developers. now you say he has moved on to BCH to tell them the same thing he was telling bitcoiners.

as for the first line, some people may think it is a joke but on many occasions Vitalik has proven he has no faith in the future of his coin publicly! he even tweeted once that he would never invest in Ethereum or any cryptocurrency because he doesn't believe in their future, he instead invests in traditional assets such as stocks. of course he doesn't need to invest in ETH since he premined it and made millions by duping a small percentage of it.

Alt fall didn't cause the BTC fall, it never works that way. BTC fall caused the huge alt sell off. BTC never does as bad because people always move funds away from altcoins in to bitcoin.

It took like 3 weeks for the price to go from 6k3 to 7k5 and just 24 hours to go back down. This market is just hilarious.
I think what we should all do right now is to buy more as the price is so cheap now, and then wait for the market to react and go up.

What is sad is that there are too many whales out there controlling the game and making us having no idea what to do. The market is still heavily manipulated.

I don't see that dump coming and it happened in no time,but it is an another opportunity to buy the bitcoin with much lower price and I hope these price dump is just temporary and it will back again to $7000 soon since the bitcoin prices were oscillating in that range for a while.But what is the exact reason for this to happen.

It was a surprise for me too, but I've read today that it may be related to Goldman Sachs giving up some Bitcoin related plans (https://www.merkle.press/2018/09/bitcoin-btc-price-analysis-sharp-tumble.html).
Which would make sense somewhat, although I didn't see any announcement and since I find Goldman Sachs extremely untrustworthy I'd suspect it's just well planned FUD/pump and dump.


I like the fact you are so optimistic. I was optimistic too yesterday, I expected the price jump back to 7k in no time. Now I can only say "let's wait and see what happens". However, you are 100% correct: Bitcoin in at sales price again.

Fairly sure that was because CMC was bugged or introduced other exchanges with higher prices, it happens quite a bit which is why people need to do their research before buying something, nonetheless you are right, bitcoin is simply dominating the market, people called it outdated, even I called it that however it's still the boss of the market. The only times where alt coins thrive is during big bull runs like the last one, now the market is basically 2 coins, bitcoin and altcoin. The companies behind some alt coins are extremely different and yet they all go down at the same time no matter what, this market is not good for entrepreneurs trying to come up with new ideas. You can have the best idea, team, ico and your coin can still go to shit, it's pretty insane.

That's no reason to panic ! Guys look at it this way ! Buy cryptocurrency while there is still a chance to buy everything at affordable prices !

This dump happen is not suprising at all if you take a look at the chart bitcoin are really overbought that stay for a couple of days and theres a news that someone move their bitcoin in just 24hours it decrease to 1k$, but this falling down is another opportunity to stock more altcoin & bitcoin, just observe carefully the situation dont be rush your self its better to wait than lose your fund I like your personality for being positive in this kind of situation.

Other altcoins suck just as much or even more than Ethereum. These PoS coins - EOS, Cardano, NEO are even more centralized than ETH and has just as many bugs and problems. There's still a good chance that ETH will outlive them, just because it has been longer in development, has fixed more bugs and is PoW for now. But anyway, no coin comes close to Bitcoin in terms of quality, I think we are lucky that we have competent devs and not some greedy scammers like most altcoins do.

I doubt that Bitcoin's price was crashed by altcoin dump, it probably was a coordinated selling, and then the markets gained downward momentum.

I read that it may be related to Goldman Sacks not opening an exchange but I do not think this is the main reason.
ETH losses was huge, XRP too, but even Bitcoin dropped more than $700 lately which is huge  :-\

Grabbing this oppurtunity to buy more coins while the market is on dip is a great delibertion to gain massive profits when the stability of the market has occur. Take this scene as a struggle that always contain a solution to be back and rise again consistently.

Maybe some of crypto whales want to make peope panics so they would sell their bitcoin and whales will eat their bitcoin. And since bitcoin dump again investor would change the asset from alt to bitcoin this is why the dominance btc raise to 54% because the if bitcoin down alt will down and if bitcoin up altcoin still sideways. But yesterday Bitcoin diamond had up until 150% in some exchange until 250% this because binance open their wallet of bcd so now the price of bcd in any exchange has been same.



i agree this is maybe we can collect more some of coin and this why we can make strategy with averaging down not stoploss so we can make double profit when market recovery again.

If the altcoin dump was largely against Bitcoin pairs, then it would certainly help explain why Bitcoin didn't slump as badly in the fall, and why it is continuing to rise back up while ETH and gang can't seem to enter recovery mode.

It's all a culmination of powerplay behind some of the big altcoins, along with anxious profit taking on a market firmlu anchored to 2018's strengthening claims to being the longest bear year.

The excitement just keeps building up on the road to 2020.

I think it has connection, trend market are influence by Bitcoin movement. Whether pump/dump on altcoin market can influence on Bitcoin price, i don't think so. But Bitcoin pump/dump affected much on altcoin market. I think to solves this, people need to give knowledge about how doing safe trading by not following trend pump and dump from some groups on social media.

of course if you look at the number that changed (700) it seems huge but when you look at the percentage you can see that it was less than 9% which is in fact small. or at the very least you can call it a medium drop.
but the percentages of drops in altcoins have been above 10% and mostly closer to 20% rather than the lower bound.

Goldman Sachs news was a major thing but I remain on saying altcoin dumps have been a big pressure pulling the price down. it slowed down a lot but I am afraid we have not seen the end of it yet.

While other coins might suck just as hard, we really need to have the utility platform part of the market to be well diversified. Back in 2017 it was just Ethereum that people could buy into, which as we all know, pumped its price to insane levels, and it was very close to Bitcoin in terms of market cap at one point. Right now the same won't happen again because the pool of funds that will flow into altcoins will be split in smaller fractions where each individual coin will get its share of the pie.

In other words, competition for Ethereum is the best thing that could happen to this market. Startups no longer need to use Ethereum as base, they have a wide variety of much better scaling alternatives to choose from. Ethereum started it all, and it gave birth to platforms that might at some point overtake its spot.

It was more like a widespread fire in the market in a short period of time.
ETH market has been very slow to rising already and the dump did not just start. Even while other altcoins were trying to make a move, ETH was very reluctant to, so I would not have been surprised that it had a very crazy dump.

Nevertheless, the market is generally subject to manipulations by the whales and that is one thing we cannot rule out and the altcoin market is actually like a money making machine for them, which has always caused a lot of distractions, but in the real sense, there is absolutely nothing we can do about it.

Easy there, this is not a large scale dump at all, we were right here just last week or so, it is not a surprise that we went up to $7.2k and went down here, we did this couple of times already and we must get used to it, this is the max we can get without getting a bigger bull run, the price difference between $6.4k and $7.2k is the profit you can use in your favor but when you are stuck at the other side and bought it at $7.2k and now see the price low don't go out and sell your bitcoin right away, wait a bit, in a week or two bitcoin will be $7k+ once again and than you can sell it. Bitcoin price is quite volatile specially in that 10% range.

In all kind of market situations too, these manipulations are happening but we do not give them any big attention as it is rarely influencing the bitcoin market. When eth was bumped to $1+k price levels bitcoin market remained calm but overall market movements are based on people's psychology and no one could understand them.

Spot on. I see people constantly refer to other coins as a waste of resources, which in most cases they are right on, but the few occasions where they are wrong helps this industry to remain fairly well distributed overall.

It was quite a bitter pill to swallow seeing how Ethereum literally broke through last year. No matter how hard I tried to convince people that they were buying themselves into fraudulent ICOs, it was a total waste of effort.

I have been part of this market for a while, but I have never seen anything like the ICO explosion before. It took so much attention away from Bitcoin at that point, that I'm glad the parasitic ICO problem more or less solved itself. 

Altcoins market has always been a distraction right from time, but at the same time, they are still a kind of necessary evil anyway.

What I can see here is that most of the time, the altcoin market is always a way of the whales just taking a chance to making more money which is why it is a lot more volatile and the truth is that, as long as people get to know that bitcoin will never lose dominance in the long run, the better they will be able to make decisions into knowing that altcoins sometimes are just basic B.S.