Bitcoin Forum

Is it either because many of you are too naive, or too stupid to understand the nature of Bitcoin. It's an anonymous virtual currency that's quite impractical and unstable. As shown just this month with Mt.Gox, it's price ]fell what, 30% in one day? I love how many of you are so against regulation, but without regulation is when there's a real problem. Illegal drug trafficking sites such as Silk Road made millions off people buying drugs through Bitcoin. There needs/will be regulation of a cryptocurrency in the future. The reason why the feds haven't bothered to regulate Bitcoin much in the USA, or completely ban it in other countries is because of it's price fluctuations, high transaction times, transaction malleability, possibility of a 51% attack, and very high energy output to mine, which they know that after a while people will Move on to another more efficient, more practical for daily use cryptocurrency . They know that in the future, a new cryptocurrency without all the flaws of Bitcoin will emerge, and WILL become mainstream which Bitcoin hasn't, still 5 years after it's release and never will become. Once that happens you can expect regulation no matter how "anonymous" you think it is. Bitcoin reminds me of a Prototype, when it's just being tested by people but not the real deal. Also, maybe like Myspace, as it will get dethroned(even as it claims to be king with its burger king crown) by a cryptocurrency that'll break through to the general population.

Just giving you all naive suckers a heads up.

Pce.

Bitcoin is not mentioned to go mainstream.

Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency and it should be streamed over all Internet - and it did.

Ty.

Bitcoin isn't meant to go mainsteam, hmm, well it looks like A lot of people sure hope/intent for it go mainstream, where'd you get that from? I have absolutely no idea where you're going with your statements...

Wait, you bash Bitcoin, but you have a bitcoin tip address in your signature.

TCP/IP will never go mainstream.  It is just a prototype.  The idea that a protocol which was state of the art in the 1970s, will still be used by billions of people in the 2010s is just stupid.  By 1979 the internet hadn't become mainstream so obviously it was never going to happen.  Something more efficient (and totally incompatible) will come along and we will use that instead.

So what does having a Bitcoin tip address in my signature have to with anything? I can have " I love Putin" Sign on my car, does that mean I love Putin? No, it could be sarcasm, someone else could of put it there and I haven't bothered to take it off, or better yet I realized Putin's flaws and decided to turn against him. There could be multitude of reasons as to why I have a bitcoin tip address in my signature.

So you want to go that road huh? Compare Bitcoin to any other successfull sites since the year 200. I could name Facebook, Myspace, Twitter, Spotify, the list goes on etc etc and want to know what all those sites have in common? They became successfull within a very short time and Mainstream. Bitcoin is supposed to be this new, next generation, of money handling, but has is a very long way off being adopted by the general public, who aren't programmers and tech guys. It's simply never going to get any higher in terms of popularity, too many flaws.

Not to mention you can't compare the Internet to Bitcoin..If you do research, you'd know Bitcoin wasn't the first virtual currency ever created, but the most successful thus far, at least in the tech and illegal community but not general public, especially because it's decentralized and anonymous(Perfect for Drug Dealers).

Ok now I think you are just trolling since you have no idea what you are talking about. You compare Bitcoin to a site, it's not a site.

I started getting warnings like this when bitcoin was about to reach $1. "Bitcoin will never be worth $1, here is a chart to prove it!"

 ::)

If you do a little reading you will see that your great discovery has been discussed for years now. It just does not pass the smell test with me because I have seen hundreds of threads like yours and made lots of money the whole time.

I guess a naive sucker like me just can't loose?

Bitcoin isn't a website, it is a protocol.   Facebook, myspace, and twitter are still running on the flawed and ancient protocol that was around at the start of the internet.  

The internet circa 1969
http://som.csudh.edu/fac/lpress/history/arpamaps/press.jpg

The internet circa 1977
http://som.csudh.edu/fac/lpress/history/arpamaps/arpanetmar77.jpg

That is right it took almost a decade to build it out to just a couple dozen nodes.

The internet circa 2000
http://mountpeaks.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/1069646562-lgl-2d-4096x40962.png

 :) I guess you did not put much effort in understand Bitcoin, none of this is flaw

you forgot to mention the altcoin you are pumping!

lol priceless  ;D
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=495794.msg5472497#msg5472497

Using ridiculous amounts of electricity just to mine Bitcoin isn't a flaw? It's unstable price isn't a flaw? One day you could buy 500 Bitcoin for 500k and the next day the price could plummet, losing you money. Even if you hold onto the Bitcoin and wait for the market to pick up, what if it never goes or you're too late? And people have already started transition to a new, better alt coin.

Let's be honest, TCP/IP shouldn't be what we use. Since the government held a monopoly on the early Internet for the first half of the Internet's existence they got to embed whatever they thought worked best instead of what actually worked best.

That said, I think Bitcoin is so revolutionary that no one is going to line up to build a second crypto infrastructure for a competitor coin anytime soon.

Hey did you notice those footprints on the ceiling above you?

Exactly

Bad analogy.

Bitcoin is not a "site"  and is more accurately compared to a protocol like SMTP (or its predecessors in electronic mail) which took THIRTY YEARS to begin to become mainstream.

The two main reasons it took email so long were:

1.  It exists to replace and augment an extremely entrenched and historical system: mostly government postal systems.

2.  The technology was not yet fully evolved into a propagated technological platform for mass acceptance.

THIS is exactly like bitcoin 2011 or so.  We are in the early 90s of email and the internet when people are still asking each other about whether they have tried it or not.  Today you carry a device in your pocket that delivers it, and its little relative SMS, etc.  Bitcoins acceptance curve will be much much faster than emails because in part OF email and the cellphone.

If that is the case, aren't you just wasting your own time writing the above novel? Also you are trying to get prototype tips?

The price fell from $33 to $2 in less than 6 months in 2011. That's a loss of 96% of its value. The week after it hit $2, Wired ran this article:
http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/11/mf_bitcoin/

Everything you've made as a criticism has been made before and will be made again.

To be frank, I don't think any of us care what the speculators think of Bitcoin as a currency anymore. Whatever value it has on any single day is always going to be dwarfed by what it can do. Bitcoin is the only crypto-currency with any form of serious development, though that *could* change to any of the alts given enough time. It's important to see every crypto-currency as a protocol. Whichever protocol sees the most development is going to continue to be the one people use in the future.

IP basically beat out most of the other protocols for becoming the protocol of the Internet because there were people willing to work on it and have it do new things that were necessary to link up multiple networks. That's really all it took. When we look back on it, though, we don't look at it as having "won", just having been the one digital solution that programmers sort of coalesced around.

Bitcoin is the one digital currency that most programmers are sort of coalescing around. Look at MintChip and Ripple which are direct competitors of Bitcoin and not clones. They pale in comparison. Even alts based on Bitcoin have more programmers working on them.

As a UK resident I can now walk into a bricks and mortar shop and buy bitcoins. I can now also buy just about any computer hardware (not asic) directly from Scan.co.uk (http://Scan.co.uk).

Added to that "my" government just did this http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/vat/brief0914.htm (http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/vat/brief0914.htm)

I can order take out from a few restaurants in my local area now.

Just a handful of things that are starting to feel pretty mainstream for me personally.

I would take this over Gold any day of the week.

There is only one minor problem with your statements. All of them are invalid.
You are too fast to talk about something you don't really understand.

Most of your arguments have been dissected already.
Let me do the one for the power consumption.

How much energy you think the whole infrastructure for companies like Visa and Mastercard uses? All the buildings, employees, travellings and so on. They are payment networks too, right?
Also most power consumption calculations about bitcoin are based on GPU power consumption.
ASICs are over 100 times more energy effecient than GPUs and that's what does most of the mining now.

I agree but you missed this (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.0).

As long as the adoption rates and infrastructure around bitcoin continue to grow at the rate they have been growing it seems unlikely that bitcoin won't be "mainstream".  Because although it's not perfect it's "good enough" that once it reaches a certain level of adoption it's hard for it to go away.

The reality is right now is the infrastructure around bitcoin is still in its very early days. Similar to many people not knowing how to get on the internet in the late 80s or early 90s, and the potential of the internet not being scratched for another good 15-20 years later as the infrastructure around it was built up.  As the infrastructure around bitcoin continues to be built up allowing bitcoin to be easy for the everyday person or business to adopt it should continue to get more mainstream. We see this with most new innovations that have a lot of potential but the industry around it isn't prepared to handle it yet.

There is a massive eradication of wealth on the horizon due to coordinated, highly aggressive money printing by most of the main players in the world economy, like the US, EU, and Japan.

It isnt sustainable, and the results arent going to be pretty.

When we cross that horizon, I for sure would rather be holding 500 BTC than $500k.

didnt you people ever hear the phrase "DONT FEED THE TROLL"?????

I don't think he's a troll, he's just a newbie, possibly young. Maybe a goon or someone who learned about Bitcoin from 4chan, but he's using his legit name and quite possibly doesn't really understand Bitcoin yet. Maybe we should be linking to one of Andreas's videos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2CsJ2HMA2I).

After all he's selling domains for BTC (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=502598.msg5533388#msg5533388). More info here as well (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=484006.msg5328278#msg5328278).

One of the domains even confirms the Registrant Name as being what his username suggests.

I think it's possible we just need to set up a better Bitcoin FAQ to answer some of these common questions so we can link to it.

Remember that newbies can sometimes be indistinguishable from trolls.

I loled so hard at goon who learned about Bitcoin from 4chan. Yes I'm 18 but I still don't see how transaction times of 10minutes, along with high energy output from GPU's, would appeal to the general public to start adopting bitcoin

If being anonymous is to be blamed, don't forget to blame the gold bricks that are melted and recast.

+100. Fabulous. Picture says more than 1,000 words! Op is a goof with little knowledge.

I am being too negative calling him a goof. He's young, he probably doesn't realize these things take time. A new payment protocol is much more complicated and time consuming than Facebook or Myspace, Josh. The internet http comparison is apt.

DeathandTaxes already completely owned this thread.

-B-

Yeah that PDP11 is where I keep a safe copy of my multi headed hydra worm ;)

Looks like it's becoming mainstream pretty fast to me. Did you hear that a single bitcoin costs almost $700???

OP: Most of your arguments - however valid - actually work in Bitcoin's favour.

First of all, whether Bitcoin is or isn't, or even will be "mainstream" is irrelevant. You need to look at the cryptocurrency economy as a whole and that most definitely IS going mainstream. There will probably be several actual networks that go "mainstream" because there's a need for them to support different roles as in the fiat economy where you have some forms of money that serve as a store of value and "safe haven", others which provide day to day liquidity etc.

So whether it's Bitcoin or something else doesn't matter. It's Bitcoin at the moment so if you want to "ride" this train to its destination you need to be in Bitcoin right now.


If you're using this as your criteria, then Bitcoin most definitely IS going mainstream. The last few months have seen nothing but new regulations emerging over cryptocurrencies all over the world. Did you watch the recent 2-day New York hearing ? This is just a non-argument. Governments all over the workd have been ruling on Bitcoin regulation and clarifying things such as Value added tax status such as in the UK last week.


I think you mis-understand what malleability actually is. It is DESIGNED into the Bitcoin protocol to make the transactions more independent of their originating application. This feature is what will allow the next tier of network applications to evolve and has nothing to do with hacking. The issue with MT Gox was that they got conned into doing double withdrawals by their customers - a bit like me sending someone $1000 from my bank account (which takes 3 days to arrive) and then someone else in the meantime finding a way to get me to send another $1000 to them.

Malliability is here to stay - there is no intention of designing it out of the Bitcoin protocol and it's simply up to clients to wait for at least 1 confirmation before recognising any funds. No problem.

As for your other points, I can't be bothered addressing them - thay are FUD and have been well addressed all over these forums.


LoL ! Have you been living on the moon for the last 3 months ? The number of Alt currencies which have emerged now numbers in the hundreds - many of them surpassing Bitcoin's specifications in all kinds of ways. Yet they haven't even made a dent in Bitcoin's status as the most established cryptocurrency network. On the contrary, they've actually enhanced it in the following ways:

[1] - by providing liquidity to the market as a proxy for Bitcoin. Make no mistake. They only reason people trade alts is to make Bitcoin gains, otherwise why would their value all be measured in BTC ?

[2] - even many of the 2nd generation protocols emerging which are being heralded as "the future" run on top of the Bitcoin network

[3] - while alt coins continue to evolve, that commercial infrastructure that is being buit - such as payment gateways, POS hardware, cryptocurrency derivative and hedging products, security services - all UNIQUELY support Bitcoin. What this means is that even though new and emerging currencies may be more practical for say-to-day or specialised uses, the value they gain is always going to be dumped into Bitcoin ultimately as long as no "show stoppers" emerge in the Bitcoin protocol (and malliability definitely IS'NT one as I outlined above)

I'll just say one last thing about your posting etiquet:



Whether you think people on these forums are naive or not, you've exposed a cartoon level of understanding about the cryptocurrency economy and the Bitcoin protocol in particular and are in no position to call them "naive" or "suckers". You're lucky you got any considered replies at all with such unmitigated arrogance which I'm getting sick of on these threads and is why I made this post.
 
I don't really give a monkey's whether Bitcoin goes mainstream or not ultimately, for reason I stated in my first point, but one thing that could do with staying out of the mainstream is baseless inflammatory chaff like this original post.

There are too many trust issues with Bitcoin. Especially since we need to trust exchanges and the people who accept and use bitcoin.

People been saying this since bitcoin was worth less then a dollar, they'll be saying when it's worth far more than today.

Also lol at him being yet another altcoiner, I knew it before I even opened the thread, I could smell the fear.

The Bitcoin isn't just a protocol like TCP/IP, SMTP, NTP, HTTP, FTP, Bittorrent etc.. All of these protocols are essentially free, open and their purpouse is to move data from one point to another... And really that is why they are so popular the freeness and interoperability.

It's also the blockchain eg. the data which is huge difference. Thus bitcoin would  also be the altcoins.

Even if bitcoin is good and has a future. The main-blockchain itself doesn't seem realistic one to take over the world... Too much of control is in early adopters hands... What is the premium of buying your currency from some outside source? Is it really worth that premium?

I thought one of the premises of Bitcoin is trust nobody. Our problem is getting accustomed to not trusting banks and "banks" like we have done with fiat.

Do some homework before making a fool of yourself.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/01/21/why-bitcoin-matters/

Putin has no flaws you idiot.
He is the best thing that ever happened for Russia.
Which is exactly the opposite that I can say for all the rest of the presidents including the one in my own home country.

Kid, take advice from an old man. I've been studying computer longer than your life.
I remember days of pre-Google/Facebook, pre-WWW, pre-email, pre-internet, pre-GUI, pre-mouse, pre-color monitor, pre-harddisk, and pre-computer. Each technology was revolutionary and disruptive. When I see the bitcoin, I see 1993 all over again, that's pre-WWW.

Don't jump to conclusion too quickly. This is life lesson you should remember always.

OMG Why on earth are you even here if you truly believe that?? Just a professional troll...

LOL, kid.
If you do research, Internet, too, wasn't first network ever created, but the most successful thus far! Do you know why? I will leave it for your homework. And do you even know what 'Internet' stands for?
When internet became more popular there were resistance worrying about illegal activities. Today, it's hardly an argument. When mp3 became popular, many companies hated it because media streaming is evil. Today only fools think it still is.
 
Please be informed that bitcoin is NOT anonymous, but pseudonymous. Please read some bitcoin wikis at

• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin
• https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Introduction

You argue bitcoin attracts criminals due to anonymity, but it's complete false. Bitcoin is actually easier to track and trace than cash and/or gold. Bitcoin is open ledger that anyone can track any transaction any time. Of course, you just can't make connection between bitcoin address and the owner. But that's not a problem. Just follow the blockchain, and at the end, the transaction is connected to some physical properties and/or services. Then you can connect last dots to an entity. And there are hundreds years worth of tools, laws, regulations, methods, skills, experience, and know-how to trace back to the owner.
It's like saying WWW is not safe for children because it attracts porn industry. Did you know that porn industry was the first one to embrace WWW, flash, online payment, and other new inventions?

One of other arguments was about being mainstream. But guess what? Less than 20% of world population has a bank account. I guess banking system as we know it is not really mainstream then.

Its true that there is a difference between sites and protocols, and that a protocol is usually much harder to change, but I don't think Bitcoin is any more like TCP/IP than like a website. Its easy for people to change the websites they use because any individual can change any time they want without any problem, whereas an individual website can't change the protocol they use - either everyone agrees to change or nobody does with something like that. Something like a digital currency is halfway between the two really, because there is an ecosystem of services which re-enforces the status-quo, but at the same time any individual merchant can switch to a different payment protocol or currency (of which there are already tonnes to choose between) any time they want and its not really a big deal for people to still be able to use the service. In a way Bitcoin is probably closer to the website example than the TCP/IP example in actual practice.

Just like the internet will only be used by geeks.

Believe it or not, that probably helped development. If people discover a tech that's logically flawless and a stroke of pure genius, they'll get awestruck and fall into an echo-chamber where the development is confined to hermeneutics. Kinda like the clonecoin scene...

Having a starting tech that's kinda clunky means crowdsourcing kicks in. People see the clunk, think of improvements, get their hand dirty and ignite a chain of innovations that grow the tech into something that none of the pioneers even thought possible.

Fact is, disruptive technologies that make an impact on the world are usually nursed by bleedin' amateurs or pros from a different county (so to speak.) The old "enginer" of the early railways days was somewhere between a skilled mechaninc and a sure-hand do-it-yourselfer. Real engineering came in later. Kinda like the PC...

Now, I'm not trying to deny Satoshi Nakamoto's genius: we all know that the blockchain is historic. But the fact that his original code was kind-of obscure meant that the early devs had something they could really get their hands into wrt improving it. Its very obscurities proved to be the kernel that got Bitcoin on the innovation train.