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Title: Why scrypt asics are all dual mine thus far? Post by: HorusFTW on March 05, 2014, 02:45:40 PM I can't seem to figure out (definitively at least) why all the scrypt mining asics brought to market are "dual" miners. Is this because the scrypt tech is so new that hardware engineers are trying to compensate by adding in btc asic mining as well in an effor to provide value to the consumer? I'm interested in everyone's thoughts!
Title: Re: Why scrypt asics are all dual mine thus far? Post by: S4VV4S on March 05, 2014, 03:25:02 PM That is because they only work for Scrypt.
The dual mining sounds nice but it has problems. So if you go for a dual miner at this point make sure you do it for Scrypt. Title: Re: Why scrypt asics are all dual mine thus far? Post by: philipma1957 on March 05, 2014, 04:37:15 PM I can't seem to figure out (definitively at least) why all the scrypt mining asics brought to market are "dual" miners. Is this because the scrypt tech is so new that hardware engineers are trying to compensate by adding in btc asic mining as well in an effor to provide value to the consumer? I'm interested in everyone's thoughts! there is one chip it is made by gridseed. my guess for the dual mining would be if script only was done. scrypt would be changed making the miner worthless. so the birdseed designer added the 256 tech to make the dual miner have value if ltc and the like change code a bit. at this point btc would not change code to kill asics Title: Re: Why scrypt asics are all dual mine thus far? Post by: BeepBeep2 on March 05, 2014, 05:18:48 PM I'm no genius but I'm pretty sure that in the scrypt algorithm (take a look in the scrypt mining kernel), SHA-256 is used in part of the process but the main proof-of-work calculations are separate. Therefore since the chips need SHA-256 logic, Gridseed just decided to engineer a chip that would also mine SHA-256.
Also see here: https://litecoin.info/User:Iddo/Comparison_between_Litecoin_and_Bitcoin Quote The scrypt hash function uses SHA256 as a subroutine, but also depends on fast access to large amounts of memory rather than depending just on fast arithmetic operations, so it is more difficult to run many instances of scrypt in parallel by using the ALUs of a modern graphics card. Title: Re: Why scrypt asics are all dual mine thus far? Post by: InCoinsITrust on March 05, 2014, 07:21:43 PM It is made so, because in that way it is easier to sell it.
Title: Re: Why scrypt asics are all dual mine thus far? Post by: HorusFTW on March 05, 2014, 09:59:24 PM Great insight everyone! Thank you! I am really not in the market for any more 'traditional' asics so I don't see any added value personally in having the ability to mine both simultaneously (if that even works...). I am really looking for a strictly scrypt asic miner, but those seem to be a mystery in terms of when they might hit the market. Plus no matter how I swing the math, I dont see how any of the current hardware (on the market or available for pre-order) being profitable unless LTC spikes in a large way. Plus with all the bs surrounding Mt. Gox I am worried that it could take longer than this current gen of scrypt asics to restore consumer confidence in cryptos and bounce the price back up to pre chinese new year levels.
I'm itching to join in but until the hardware costs drop or something else happens that magically restores crytpos to their previous highs, i will stick with my BTC asics and mediocre video cards for scrypt. Title: Re: Why scrypt asics are all dual mine thus far? Post by: -ck on March 05, 2014, 11:37:37 PM It also allows discussion of these asics, which are clearly only aimed at the scrypt market, to sneak their way into the bitcoin forum hardware section because they still allegedly mine bitcoin, although no on uses them for that. I doubt this is intentional but it has been noted.
Title: Re: Why scrypt asics are all dual mine thus far? Post by: jimmothy on March 06, 2014, 12:39:45 AM I'm no genius but I'm pretty sure that in the scrypt algorithm (take a look in the scrypt mining kernel), SHA-256 is used in part of the process but the main proof-of-work calculations are separate. Therefore since the chips need SHA-256 logic, Gridseed just decided to engineer a chip that would also mine SHA-256. Also see here: https://litecoin.info/User:Iddo/Comparison_between_Litecoin_and_Bitcoin Quote The scrypt hash function uses SHA256 as a subroutine, but also depends on fast access to large amounts of memory rather than depending just on fast arithmetic operations, so it is more difficult to run many instances of scrypt in parallel by using the ALUs of a modern graphics card. I don't think the sha-256 asic will provide any significant benefit to scrypt mining. From what I've gathered, sha256 is only a very small portion of scrypt hashing. I am hoping gridseed releases a dedicated scrypt miner soon. If they can reach $0.5/kh I would bite. Title: Re: Why scrypt asics are all dual mine thus far? Post by: chup on March 06, 2014, 04:12:05 PM there is one chip it is made by gridseed. my guess for the dual mining would be if script only was done. scrypt would be changed making the miner worthless. so the birdseed designer added the 256 tech to make the dual miner have value if ltc and the like change code a bit. at this point btc would not change code to kill asics Dualminer first announced 2-nd version without BTC mining possibility. Maybe LTC developers are waiting scrypt ASIC manufacturers on thin ice (with scrypt only hardware) and than changing the algo? :o Title: Re: Why scrypt asics are all dual mine thus far? Post by: minereu.com on March 06, 2014, 10:58:40 PM I am confused, is there any other scrypt asic miner apart from gridseed?
Title: Re: Why scrypt asics are all dual mine thus far? Post by: rammy2k2 on March 06, 2014, 11:33:16 PM I am confused, is there any other scrypt asic miner apart from gridseed? nope Title: Re: Why scrypt asics are all dual mine thus far? Post by: InCoinsITrust on March 07, 2014, 09:15:04 AM there is one chip it is made by gridseed. my guess for the dual mining would be if script only was done. scrypt would be changed making the miner worthless. so the birdseed designer added the 256 tech to make the dual miner have value if ltc and the like change code a bit. at this point btc would not change code to kill asics Dualminer first announced 2-nd version without BTC mining possibility. Maybe LTC developers are waiting scrypt ASIC manufacturers on thin ice (with scrypt only hardware) and than changing the algo? :o that would be great Title: Re: Why scrypt asics are all dual mine thus far? Post by: Trongersoll on March 08, 2014, 09:00:40 PM One should also keep in mind that Scrypt ASICs are not true ASICs but rather a hybrid that uses external RAM that is put on the same wafer/chip. True ASICs do not contain RAM and cannot do scrypt algorithms. Calling Scrypt ASICs ASICs is a misnomer. *dons fire retardent suit* :o
Title: Re: Why scrypt asics are all dual mine thus far? Post by: BeepBeep2 on March 09, 2014, 12:08:33 AM One should also keep in mind that Scrypt ASICs are not true ASICs but rather a hybrid that uses external RAM that is put on the same wafer/chip. True ASICs do not contain RAM and cannot do scrypt algorithms. Calling Scrypt ASICs ASICs is a misnomer. *dons fire retardent suit* :o For a retired software engineer, you seem very ignorant. Please explain a "hybrid"...An ASIC is an application-specific-integrated-circuit. Even a GPU core is an ASIC. A NIC is an ASIC. Realtek Onboard Audio ICs are ASICs. Scrypt ASICs can vary in design, too. You could have one design with an on-die scratchpad, and another design that uses external RAM on the PCB. To call "external RAM" something put on the same "wafer/chip" makes no sense. Do you know what a wafer is? I'm no genius but I'm pretty sure that in the scrypt algorithm (take a look in the scrypt mining kernel), SHA-256 is used in part of the process but the main proof-of-work calculations are separate. Therefore since the chips need SHA-256 logic, Gridseed just decided to engineer a chip that would also mine SHA-256. Also see here: https://litecoin.info/User:Iddo/Comparison_between_Litecoin_and_Bitcoin Quote The scrypt hash function uses SHA256 as a subroutine, but also depends on fast access to large amounts of memory rather than depending just on fast arithmetic operations, so it is more difficult to run many instances of scrypt in parallel by using the ALUs of a modern graphics card. I don't think the sha-256 asic will provide any significant benefit to scrypt mining. From what I've gathered, sha256 is only a very small portion of scrypt hashing. I am hoping gridseed releases a dedicated scrypt miner soon. If they can reach $0.5/kh I would bite. Title: Re: Why scrypt asics are all dual mine thus far? Post by: chriswen on March 09, 2014, 07:44:38 PM Thank you I had the exact same questions. It seemed like a weird gimmick to make it a dual miner.
Title: Re: Why scrypt asics are all dual mine thus far? Post by: minereu.com on March 10, 2014, 05:46:18 AM I have talked to Gridseed CTO today. The quick answer is that they don't want to leave money on the table for BTC.
HOWEVER, it seems most feedbacks from resellers show that almost all clients only enable the Scrypt mode. Gridseed will react based on this. If you are interested in Gridseed miners, we are the Gridseed ASIC (BTC/Scrypt) EU distributor based in the UK https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=508904.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=508904.0) Title: Re: Why scrypt asics are all dual mine thus far? Post by: Gazza1 on March 16, 2014, 12:40:07 AM I would just use the Scrypt part. The powerdraw for the bitcoin mining isn't worth it. You can run boatloads of scrypt asics at low power.
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